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Post by rifle on Oct 25, 2015 9:28:52 GMT -5
I hope this makes sense in words..
At a game I watched yesterday a pass was made through a high pressing defense and the striker was easily caught 7-10 steps offside (midway between the center circle and the penlty area).
The AR was in good position and saw it clearly. The AR flag stayed down because the ball was played pretty far ahead. With no whistle, the striker ran in and the keeper ran out. Defenders were not even close. The AR flagged the striker offside.. right as the two collided. Hard.
Totally unnecessarily? IMO - 2 kids were put at risk of injury by the delayed offside call.
Knowing the striker was offside, should the AR have flagged sooner, knowing the striker was alone on the keeper - to take the likelihood of collision away?
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Post by soccerfan30 on Oct 25, 2015 10:20:22 GMT -5
I believe referees are instructed until the offside player becomes active in the play, however in the scenario you described it seems like only the attacker and goalkeeper were within yards of the play, at that point the AR should signaled to avoid a potentially unnecessary collison.
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Post by Keeper on Oct 25, 2015 10:24:37 GMT -5
I believe the player is not technically offsides until the ball is touched. So if the striker doesn't make a move for the ball then it would be play as usual. It's like advantage, you have to give the play 3 seconds to see if the team the penalty is in favor of to make a positive out of it.
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Post by jack4343 on Oct 25, 2015 10:38:37 GMT -5
Asked my daughter and she said that they are instructed to give 3 seconds before signaling to give the play time to develop. She said in class as an example a play in which a ball was played to Clint Dempsey who was clearly offside. He stopped his run, the defenders also let up all the while another onside attacker ran onto the ball and scored. However, she said it can be situational and if it looks like a collision is the more likely result then she would signal. We're talking split second decisions here though and it still may not stop the play in time to avoid a collision.
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Post by soccrballr on Oct 25, 2015 11:08:20 GMT -5
According to the Laws of the Game, an offside infraction occurs when a player is in offside position and is "actively involved in the play." They go on to state that active involvement is not necessarily the same as been in the area of active play. Moreover, touching the ball is not necessarily a requirement. If you're going to the ball and are the only one who can reasonably make the play, you're offside (see slide 15 at the link below). And if you're in an offside position and you "interfere with an opponent" either via directly obstructing them or deceiving/distracting them (like maybe pulling a defender to your position or causing the goalkeeper to change his positioning) then you are offside (see slide 17 at the link below). www.fifa.com/mm/document/afdeveloping/refereeing/law_11_offside_en_47383.pdfAt the end of the day, this is a judgment call on the ref/ARs part so there will be some disagreement. But in the situation you describe, it sounds like they should have called it since the striker was actively pursuing the ball, was the only one on the attacking side who could reasonably make the play, and the keeper was reacting to his/her actions. Had he/she, for example, been out on the wing and pulled up, letting the ball continue down the middle of the field where an onside player might have caught up to it and made a play, then it would be a different story entirely.
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Post by rifle on Oct 25, 2015 12:26:54 GMT -5
I believe referees are instructed until the offside player becomes active in the play, however in the scenario you described it seems like only the attacker and goalkeeper were within yards of the play, at that point the AR should signaled to avoid a potentially unnecessary collison. This was exactly the situation. Nobody running on. The striker didn't go "passive" he just barreled on through the GK. Totally unnecessary.
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Post by rifle on Oct 29, 2016 22:49:11 GMT -5
One year later, same thing yet again. Fortunately the offside attacker made a heavy first touch just before getting to the keeper.. allowing the keeper an easy clearance- avoiding a collision.
But again the AR watched and waited, all the while knowing the attacker was a mile offside.
Needless risk created by the referee crew.
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Post by rudy on Oct 30, 2016 13:04:48 GMT -5
Refs often miss or neglect to make calls putting players in danger. This is where coaches, players and parents have issues. Learn the rules and make the call. Luckily neither player was hurt in this instance.
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mark
Jr. Academy
Posts: 62
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Post by mark on Oct 30, 2016 14:43:00 GMT -5
Seems like yet another example of the refs knowing the rules(in this case taking it too literally), but not knowing the game.
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Post by Keeper on Oct 30, 2016 17:44:22 GMT -5
Actually seems a little to much like parents whining because their kid doesn't know how to stay onsides. Let the refs do their job as the rules are written. The refs are not there to keep players safe, they are there to enforce the rules. It's things like this where parents continue to question refs that make so many of the younger ones quit.
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Post by soccerparent02 on Oct 30, 2016 18:41:29 GMT -5
If the referees are not there to protect players then why give cards to players for dangerous play? Your comment makes no sense.
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Post by rifle on Oct 30, 2016 19:02:31 GMT -5
When the AR is in position to see it.. then stops as the action continues down the field.. you know the offside flag is coming up.
My concern is when the CR doesn't look. In doing so, he places two players in danger of a hard collision that is 100% avoidable.
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Post by Keeper on Oct 30, 2016 20:51:12 GMT -5
If the referees are not there to protect players then why give cards to players for dangerous play? Your comment makes no sense. My comment was actually a quote from the Georgia Soccer D&P chairman, A refs job is to enforce the rules, so yes if a player is breaking them by playing dangerous then the ref has the right to card them. If a clean play could result in an injury it's not the refs job to access that because it is not stated in the Laws of the Game. Same as it's not a refs job to tell you what the rules are, that's a coach's job. You all are trying to make things blurry but they have to be black and white. Otherwise soccer could become the NFL with things like what is a catch.
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Post by guest on Oct 31, 2016 7:16:06 GMT -5
If the referees are not there to protect players then why give cards to players for dangerous play? Your comment makes no sense. My comment was actually a quote from the Georgia Soccer D&P chairman, A refs job is to enforce the rules, so yes if a player is breaking them by playing dangerous then the ref has the right to card them. If a clean play could result in an injury it's not the refs job to access that because it is not stated in the Laws of the Game. Same as it's not a refs job to tell you what the rules are, that's a coach's job. You all are trying to make things blurry but they have to be black and white. Otherwise soccer could become the NFL with things like what is a catch. It depends on what the meaning of the word "is" is. ;-)
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Post by alacrity174 on Oct 31, 2016 13:06:19 GMT -5
Refs often miss or neglect to make calls putting players in danger. This is where coaches, players and parents have issues. Learn the rules and make the call. Luckily neither player was hurt in this instance. Sorry Rudy very, very few refs Neglect or miss these type of calls. If this was a younger AR is can see where the confusion has come about, as was explained earlier the clarified rule for Offside from FIFA is now being enforced and this states that the AR should hold the flag until the player becomes active. In the example above it may have been that a 2nd attacker was making a run from onside (I don't know I wasn't there), if this is so then the AR was totally right to hold the flag until it became clear that the original offside player was going to get to the ball first. This whole situation is very ambiguous and without seeing it personally I can't give a qualified answer.
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Post by alacrity174 on Oct 31, 2016 13:11:25 GMT -5
Actually seems a little to much like parents whining because their kid doesn't know how to stay onsides. Let the refs do their job as the rules are written. The refs are not there to keep players safe, they are there to enforce the rules. It's things like this where parents continue to question refs that make so many of the younger ones quit. Sorry but my first job as a referee is the safety of the players, it even says that in the LOTG and the now defunct Advice to Referees.
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Post by rifle on Oct 31, 2016 15:45:53 GMT -5
Refs often miss or neglect to make calls putting players in danger. This is where coaches, players and parents have issues. Learn the rules and make the call. Luckily neither player was hurt in this instance. Sorry Rudy very, very few refs Neglect or miss these type of calls. If this was a younger AR is can see where the confusion has come about, as was explained earlier the clarified rule for Offside from FIFA is now being enforced and this states that the AR should hold the flag until the player becomes active. In the example above it may have been that a 2nd attacker was making a run from onside (I don't know I wasn't there), if this is so then the AR was totally right to hold the flag until it became clear that the original offside player was going to get to the ball first. This whole situation is very ambiguous and without seeing it personally I can't give a qualified answer. Thanks for jumping in. Was I imagining that the AR stops running with the play if an offside flag is about to come up?
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Post by alacrity174 on Oct 31, 2016 16:04:30 GMT -5
Sorry Rudy very, very few refs Neglect or miss these type of calls. If this was a younger AR is can see where the confusion has come about, as was explained earlier the clarified rule for Offside from FIFA is now being enforced and this states that the AR should hold the flag until the player becomes active. In the example above it may have been that a 2nd attacker was making a run from onside (I don't know I wasn't there), if this is so then the AR was totally right to hold the flag until it became clear that the original offside player was going to get to the ball first. This whole situation is very ambiguous and without seeing it personally I can't give a qualified answer. Thanks for jumping in. Was I imagining that the AR stops running with the play if an offside flag is about to come up? Actually he AR SHOULD keep.running the line in caseof another incident such as that describe Bovey and when they are sure of the offside raise the flag, when referring acknowledge they should then run back to the original offside spot and point the flag across the field indicaticating where the kick should be taken from
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Post by soccerparent02 on Oct 31, 2016 16:54:17 GMT -5
If you review the original posting, it is clear the offensive play is offside and the flag should have been raised. No other players around. No excuse AR missed it. It is what it is. Hopefully the AR learned from this and won't make this mistake again IMO.
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Post by alacrity174 on Oct 31, 2016 18:27:01 GMT -5
If you review the original posting, it is clear the offensive play is offside and the flag should have been raised. No other players around. No excuse AR missed it. It is what it is. Hopefully the AR learned from this and won't make this mistake again IMO. With all due respect for you were not there to witness the incident personally then you really can't say definitively he AR was wrong. It is very easy to be judgemental but if you feel that strongly I an provide a list know to a available ref certification classes
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Post by newposter on Nov 1, 2016 19:14:19 GMT -5
Heard the argument before - it takes very little to become an R9.
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Post by alacrity174 on Nov 1, 2016 19:22:12 GMT -5
Heard the argument before - it takes very little to become an R9. Then do it and then become an R8 and progress up the ladder. Otherwise leave he qualified referees to do the job and stop complaining
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Post by newposter on Nov 1, 2016 19:35:34 GMT -5
Not complaining, I'm just making a true statement. Btw, I choose to umpire high school and college baseball where there is good money made. We have plenty of umpires and if you mess up badly, you are "benched" for awhile. In soccer, that practice never happens it seems.
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Post by alacrity174 on Nov 1, 2016 20:15:19 GMT -5
Not complaining, I'm just making a true statement. Btw, I choose to umpire high school and college baseball where there is good money made. We have plenty of umpires and if you mess up badly, you are "benched" for awhile. In soccer, that practice never happens it seems. Baseball is a totally different officiating experience and really has no comparison to soccer and your true statement in my experience doesn't bear up.to scrutiny. Yes there are some bad referees out there but the only way to get them out is for other people to.step.up.and make it so an assigned can afford not to use them. Look at how many games are cancelled every week due to no referees available. Take the course and come out on a weekend as an R9 then tell me how easy it is.
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Post by rifle on Mar 12, 2017 10:03:35 GMT -5
Thanks for jumping in. Was I imagining that the AR stops running with the play if an offside flag is about to come up? Actually he AR SHOULD keep.running the line in caseof another incident such as that describe Bovey and when they are sure of the offside raise the flag, when referring acknowledge they should then run back to the original offside spot and point the flag across the field indicaticating where the kick should be taken from New one, with a twist. streamable.com/pviqsI noticed the AR stopped like a statue.
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mark
Jr. Academy
Posts: 62
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Post by mark on Mar 12, 2017 13:06:08 GMT -5
Good no call by the center guy.
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Post by jash on Mar 12, 2017 14:45:44 GMT -5
Great job by the referee... I totally missed it the first two angles.
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Post by Keeper on Mar 12, 2017 15:00:40 GMT -5
Great positioning by the center. I'll have to share this tape with some of my players who are now referees.
Crazy how many parents would be yelling at this no call not realizing you're not offside if the other team gives you the ball.
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Post by Soccerhouse on Mar 13, 2017 8:16:08 GMT -5
Wow. Thats unreal. I watched the first video clip 4 times and couldn't see anything!
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Post by rifle on Mar 13, 2017 8:30:44 GMT -5
A rather lucky situation.
I do see lots of pro players deliberately meandering around behind the defense lately, in an offside position but "passive" or whatever the term is... Apparently just to keep the defenders confused. It makes the AR's job pretty challenging!
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