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Post by soccerfan30 on Nov 10, 2015 8:36:13 GMT -5
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Post by Soccerhouse on Nov 10, 2015 10:31:35 GMT -5
Yea. Was following this last night on Twitter.
Heading is rare at the younger ages during games and sessions. Most quality teams rarely punt and it's typically seen on corners.
I understand the rationale,but not sure how this helps with concussions in soccer with older kids, especially in girls.
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Post by spectator on Nov 10, 2015 10:57:35 GMT -5
The key is teaching the proper technique early to avoid injury later when the balls are kicked harder and higher. WIth girls, their neck muscles aren't as strong as the guys which is why you see more injuries with girls - mostly because they weren't taught proper techniques.
Honestly though, it's a non issue, very few balls are played out of the air at the younger ages
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Post by SoccerMom on Nov 10, 2015 13:01:34 GMT -5
This makes zero sense to me...
Per the new protocol, children 10 and under will be barred from heading the ball during any official session — practice or game — while players ages 11 to 13 will be allowed to head the ball during games only.
So forget practicing how to head the ball correctly? Its all about teaching kids how to do it properly like spectator says.
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Post by sidelinemama on Nov 10, 2015 14:00:50 GMT -5
The problem is CTE, not concussion. I will say that at very young ages I have seen kids head a punt and then drop straight to the ground from the impact. I cringe each time I see it. In a perfect world, I agree, the ball would be played out of the back and not punted, and most kids wouldn't rely so much on heading at a young age. Learning to head the ball appropriately would also be nice. Unfortunately the soccer I have watched over the years does not indicate this. They actually just did a segment on this on Outside the Lines on ESPN.
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Post by totaalvoetbal on Nov 10, 2015 15:12:23 GMT -5
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Post by jash on Nov 10, 2015 16:01:52 GMT -5
Maybe. I don't think the U10s need to be doing headers except as shots perhaps. I don't think removing heading *practice* for U11-U13 will help anything and may cause them to be less skilled at headers (and thus at more risk of injury). How about addressing better concussion protocols first? Lots of these concussions (most?) don't even come from headers, and I've seen coaches and parents make bad decisions about whether players should continue. How about mandatory pre-season concussion baseline testing and mandatory post-injury concussion testing to compare against those before players can return? At one time d***'s sporting goods was sponsoring baseline testing for entire leagues for free. I feel sure some big company would love to buy into a program like that for youth soccer. This feels like another step just for the sake of doing something, without really solving anything. I'm not against it as such, but it may bury the bigger problem in the whitewash of "see, we did something" and leave the underlying problems unsolved.
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Post by totaalvoetbal on Nov 10, 2015 16:09:42 GMT -5
Maybe. I don't think the U10s need to be doing headers except as shots perhaps. I don't think removing heading *practice* for U11-U13 will help anything and may cause them to be less skilled at headers (and thus at more risk of injury). How about addressing better concussion protocols first? Lots of these concussions (most?) don't even come from headers, and I've seen coaches and parents make bad decisions about whether players should continue. How about mandatory pre-season concussion baseline testing and mandatory post-injury concussion testing to compare against those before players can return? At one time d***'s sporting goods was sponsoring baseline testing for entire leagues for free. I feel sure some big company would love to buy into a program like that for youth soccer. This feels like another step just for the sake of doing something, without really solving anything. I'm not against it as such, but it may bury the bigger problem in the whitewash of "see, we did something" and leave the underlying problems unsolved. Part of the new regulations are increasing the concussion education to parents, coaches, and kids. Technically, the USSF can't force teams to do that testing, they can only "recommend" the testing. Sure it's not doing a ton of good, but isn't a little good better than nothing? I just hope they keep the regulation train rolling and add more safety precautions to the youth game.
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Post by jash on Nov 10, 2015 16:33:32 GMT -5
A little good is better than nothing unless it convinces people that the problem is "solved" and they don't have to worry anymore. Eliminating heading doesn't remove most sources of concussion. But again, I'm not opposed to this, as long as we don't all stand around and pat ourselves on the back and say "problem solved". I'm afraid this one was little more than lawsuit-solving.
I don't see why USSF (via USYS) can't force member leagues to require concussion testing. They mandate lots of other things -- why not that?
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Post by Soccerhouse on Nov 10, 2015 17:10:14 GMT -5
So no corner kicks at this age also? Not sure how you implement this when the natural instinct for many players will be to head the ball.
Will headers be illegal?
Will be strange watching younger kids play with a build out line and now no headers.
Will a header be a foul?
Just a guess but you would still think your kid has a better chance of suffering a concussion in the car on the way to the soccer fields at this age then actually on the soccer fields.
Granted limited sample. But 7 years of watching u8-u10 soccer
I've seen kids run into each other at this age. I've seen kids hit the ground. I've seen kids hit the goal post. I've seen kids get hit unitentionally in the head with the ball. Ive seen kids get kicked in the head. I've never seen a kid u8/u9/u10 kid have a concussion from heading during a game or training and immediely appear to be concussed.
And lastly I've seen much more dangerous play by players and the opposing coach has done nothing to correct the dirty play at this age!!
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Post by soccerfutbolfam on Nov 10, 2015 18:01:26 GMT -5
Has anyone found the rates for the other reasons that cause concussions?
I know an Academy kid who is out now with a concussion. Not because of a header, but because of two players playing overly aggressive and the kid got hit in the exact same spot on the head multiple times.
This is one reason, coaches need to train proper aggressive play and how to defend against it and why refs need to maintain control over a game.
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Post by TheMadOx on Nov 11, 2015 9:23:52 GMT -5
All of these mandates are wild....Forgive me if I am wrong, but didn't I read that punting was being eliminated in the younger ages anyway? So if this is the case, why add the next level of no heading? I would say that majority of the heading that is being done at the younger ages are off punts...if punting is being eliminated, heading is minimized.
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Post by oldboy on Nov 11, 2015 9:48:45 GMT -5
I am the first to admit I don't have a real answer. The studies on the headgear show they have no real mediating effect. So short of banning heading altogether, I don't know how you take the potential danger out of the game. I'll also admit I don't know if you necessarily should, at least at the higher levels of the game.
Think about the holding midfielder of a high level youth team. That player likely heads 5-10 goal kicks or punts each game at a minimum. The position requires it.
Think about your good center backs who likely head clear a minimum of 2-3 crosses in a game you're dominating to more than 20 in a game when you're being dominated. Again the position requires it.
At the higher competitive levels this will have zero day-to-day impact. U13 Athena A or Classic I with RPL slots on the line. Kids will head the ball in training. Coaches won't build sessions around it, but in a finishing session forwards will head the ball and defenders will head to clear. In a scrimmage, heading will go on as it always has.
The difference will be that liability will have shifted to the individual coach and club and away from US Soccer. The shifting of liability is what lies at the heart of this settlement.
I'm fine with the ban on heading for the youngest kids. No coach worth their salt does regular or intensive heading at those ages anyway. Maybe a quick game of "head it, catch it" at the end of a session. But I don't see much beyond that at the fields I spend time on.
The test will come when a U10 game is tied in the final few minutes and a defender doesn't head away a ball in the air that results in a goal against. Or when a forward doesn't nod a ball in late in the same type game to win it. Will parents and coaches react in line with US Soccer's heading mandate or will they howl?
The logical conclusion of this line of argument is a total ban on heading. Of course, it also leads to something approaching a total ban on American football, rugby, and all combat sports like boxing and martial arts. At some point we might just decide that some risk is a price we're alright with paying.
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Post by soccerfutbolfam on Nov 11, 2015 10:09:57 GMT -5
So no corner kicks at this age also? Not sure how you implement this when the natural instinct for many players will be to head the ball. Will headers be illegal? Will be strange watching younger kids play with a build out line and now no headers. Will a header be a foul? Just a guess but you would still think your kid has a better chance of suffering a concussion in the car on the way to the soccer fields at this age then actually on the soccer fields. Granted limited sample. But 7 years of watching u8-u10 soccer I've seen kids run into each other at this age. I've seen kids hit the ground. I've seen kids hit the goal post. I've seen kids get hit unitentionally in the head with the ball. Ive seen kids get kicked in the head. I've never seen a kid u8/u9/u10 kid have a concussion from heading during a game or training and immediely appear to be concussed. And lastly I've seen much more dangerous play by players and the opposing coach has done nothing to correct the dirty play at this age!! Your last sentence sums this up beautifully. I wholeheartedly agree and would add that I have watched referees turn a blind eye to it.
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Post by Soccerhouse on Nov 12, 2015 10:39:31 GMT -5
again, call me crazy, but their is something down right beautiful when your watching a u9/u10 game, and a kid hits a header off a corner into the back of the net or just wide or over the bar. The attempts happen 2 or 3 times a game on corners, and its a shame to take that part away from the game.
I agree, punting sucks! But quality soccer in my opinion isn't just playing one way, its building out of the back, playing possession with purpose, keeping the ball on the surface but complementing that with some big switches, through balls and some occasional really quick punts into space.
I'm not a fan of the build out line and forcing teams/kids to play a way that they might not be ready for. I praise the hell out of the coaches that "play" the right way with out the pieces to do it, but it doesn't make for a very fun game at younger ages when kids aren't ready for it. In my opinion, you limit punts, quality teams rarely punt at 6v6, but sometimes its necessary to switch the field and get them off your back.
One of the biggest parts of youth development is receiving the ball from the keeper under pressure and having to make quick decisions, the build out line with remove this aspect of the game. Its great for kids at younger ages to learn from the games, get the ball under pressure and react. In my opinion the build out line with actually do the opposite of what it intends and that is hurt kids development, it will slow the game down and allow kids to have time that in reality they never will have as they mature. Now teams will sit back and pounce on kids, and i'm sure its going to be counter productive, because most teams left/right backs now will just react and have to bang the ball long.
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Post by rifle on Nov 12, 2015 11:36:36 GMT -5
Much more likely source of concussion..
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Post by coachjd on Nov 13, 2015 9:40:31 GMT -5
Is the issue about concussions? Yes. Is the issue MORE about repeated hits(however hard or soft) to the head? Yes.
I think it is more about preventing repeated heading exercises to kids at a young age. Does proper technique need to be learned? Absolutely! But the proper heading technique can easily be taught later when the kids have stronger muscles and more control over their body and muscles to actually learn the technique better.
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