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Post by soccerfan30 on Sept 19, 2016 20:39:29 GMT -5
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Post by soccerinsider on Sept 19, 2016 21:16:44 GMT -5
Not threatened at all. She's on the USA NATIONAL TEAM. Right? Am I missing something? Red white and blue kits? "National Team" right there?
It's one thing to be a spoiled millionaire brat in the NFL and a bad one at that. It's another entirely to be playing FOR YOUR COUNTRY and refusing to respect the flag of said country.
Do this for your pro team, maybe less people care.
Yeah yeah yeah. 1st amendment blah blah. My 1st amendment rights allow me to say you are a POS.
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Post by Keeperkeeper on Sept 19, 2016 21:29:06 GMT -5
Excellent article! I wish people would talk more about why they are protesting than the protest itself. Yes, people will disagree with the idea of taking a knee, but as said in another post, our country is a country built on protests (i.e., Boston Tea Party, Nat Turner, MLK, etc). And, it is good to see people of influence (athletes, artists) using their platform/privilege to protest (and raise awareness) at a time when many minorities feel that no one is listening to the actual issues. You see, we argue about what should be done to Rapinoe and Kaep, but maybe we should spend our time in dialogue about the issues that sparked the protest with our friends, neighbors, and children.
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Post by zizou on Sept 19, 2016 23:15:47 GMT -5
Not threatened at all. She's on the USA NATIONAL TEAM. Right? Am I missing something? Red white and blue kits? "National Team" right there? It's one thing to be a spoiled millionaire brat in the NFL and a bad one at that. It's another entirely to be playing FOR YOUR COUNTRY and refusing to respect the flag of said country. Do this for your pro team, maybe less people care. Yeah yeah yeah. 1st amendment blah blah. My 1st amendment rights allow me to say you are a POS. Let's be respectful. I would submit, and ask everyone to consider, the level of vitriol this issue engenders indicates that rationality is not always the overarching consideration. As a result, a moment's reflection is probably a good idea. There is a great Galileo quote that works here: "He who amidst the struggle of opinion calls upon authority works with his memory and not with his reason." Just as another point for reflection. USSF is a nonprofit organization that is given authority by FIFA, a genuinely corrupt organization, to construct all star teams to compete against all star teams from other federations. They are not the same as the US of A. Not even close. Sunil Gulati is not Imperial Overlord of the USA. He is a businessman doing a job. For a variety reasons, the USSF is not entitled to this level of moral authority. Nor respect. A lot of what they do could hardly be called "the best of America." They are a goofball organization. Kind of an embarrassing group in a lot of ways. Players on these USSF all star teams are not being paid by the federal government. They are not in the military. Let's not get confused about what these teams really represent. The President of the United States, who does have some right to be a moral compass for the country, regardless of who you voted for, was in support of the NFL protest. Rapinoe did it to support Kaepernick. Even if you would do it a different way the very basis of our country is we can have respectful discussions about the underlying issues. None of us have all the answers. None of us understand all of the issues in sufficient depth to provide some sort of declaration of ultimate justice. The very essence of our country provides that waving the flag deserves no more respect than taking a knee.
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Post by soccerinsider on Sept 20, 2016 7:26:08 GMT -5
Reasonable people can disagree.if she shows a lack of respect for the flag, I will not respect her protest.
I was raised in the way that you earn the respect of others. it is not a Birthright by virtue of you playing a sport.
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Post by alacrity174 on Sept 20, 2016 8:19:23 GMT -5
Not threatened at all. She's on the USA NATIONAL TEAM. Right? Am I missing something? Red white and blue kits? "National Team" right there? It's one thing to be a spoiled millionaire brat in the NFL and a bad one at that. It's another entirely to be playing FOR YOUR COUNTRY and refusing to respect the flag of said country. Do this for your pro team, maybe less people care. Yeah yeah yeah. 1st amendment blah blah. My 1st amendment rights allow me to say you are a POS. Let's be respectful. I would submit, and ask everyone to consider, the level of vitriol this issue engenders indicates that rationality is not always the overarching consideration. As a result, a moment's reflection is probably a good idea. There is a great Galileo quote that works here: "He who amidst the struggle of opinion calls upon authority works with his memory and not with his reason." Just as another point for reflection. USSF is a nonprofit organization that is given authority by FIFA, a genuinely corrupt organization, to construct all star teams to compete against all star teams from other federations. They are not the same as the US of A. Not even close. Sunil Gulati is not Imperial Overlord of the USA. He is a businessman doing a job. For a variety reasons, the USSF is not entitled to this level of moral authority. Nor respect. A lot of what they do could hardly be called "the best of America." They are a goofball organization. Kind of an embarrassing group in a lot of ways. Players on these USSF all star teams are not being paid by the federal government. They are not in the military. Let's not get confused about what these teams really represent. The President of the United States, who does have some right to be a moral compass for the country, regardless of who you voted for, was in support of the NFL protest. Rapinoe did it to support Kaepernick. Even if you would do it a different way the very basis of our country is we can have respectful discussions about the underlying issues. None of us have all the answers. None of us understand all of the issues in sufficient depth to provide some sort of declaration of ultimate justice. The very essence of our country provides that waving the flag deserves no more respect than taking a knee. With all due respect when an athlete is selected to "represent" their country, be it soccer, the Olympics, tennis, whatever then they are defacto representing their country in all its forms. Now we could easily argue that North Korea athletes do not purposefully represent a dictator however they are representing the country and official government of DPRK. My personal opinion is that here in the US it is not mandatory for you to accept the call up to National duty so if you want to protest then to refuse the invitation would be the higher moral ground. Also for Ms Rapinoe to purposefully take away from her team mates time in the spotlight is at best selfish. If she wants to protest whatever it is she is unhappy about carry right on with your club team but again in my opinion, if you with to represent the USA and wear the National Teams jersey then you should stand for the National Anthem and do your best to be a team player and represent ALL that is GOOD about this country.
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Post by Soccerhouse on Sept 20, 2016 8:24:52 GMT -5
I still think it's different regardless of who is paying her pay check -- when your representing your country it's just different. your one of the 23 women in the world chosen to represent the US women's soccer team and our country. It's not about showing respect to a flag or a song in my opinion its respect to this amazing country we live in and the 300 million people you are representing. Yes, the world at times has become a terrible place, crime and hatred and racism will always occur on some level -- but as a whole we are good people with good intentions. Its an opportunity to forget all the bad things and unite and come together and wear the uniform with pride and for that 2 hours to focus on a country uniting an cheering together to win a competition. Her entire life is what it is because of the platform she has been given through US Soccer. Her career is US Soccer and her life is US Soccer. 117 caps, I think currently 3rd on the roster. Without US Soccer who knows what she would be doing, we sure has heck wouldn't know who she is. I'll give her credit for sticking with her guns though, tough person. and to 2nd zizou opinion I don't see the current state of US soccer improving. the heading, age mandate, girls DA, boys u12 DA, and boys ECNL (non US Soccer) aren't helping us move forward.
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Post by spectator on Sept 20, 2016 8:54:05 GMT -5
I would rather people respect the Constitution than a song or a piece of cloth - and face it- at the end of the day the National Anthem is a song and the American flag is a piece of cloth, They just REPRESENT the country - the Constitution IS the country. An athlete in the USA uniform represents the country - good, bad, just and unjust - and the right to disagree and protest what they feel is unjust is their right as an American. Last time I checked, every time the anthem is played at an event, it's prefaced with 'Please rise and stand for the anthem' - it's never a requirement - but merely a polite request not demanding respect- which is earned not demanded by the way so if people feel that way, the fact they are sitting quietly and not making noise while others do IS respectful that we disagree or others don't feel the same way they do.
Megan Rapinoe is making a conscious decision to kneel quietly during the National Anthem. She's not pumping her fist in air and screaming for change - she's respectfully kneeling while others stand. And looking around the stands during the game Sunday night, many of those standing were also talking to others, eating and drinking while they stood and otherwise not paying a lick of attention to the anthem they claim is being so disrespected by Rapinoe's choice to kneel, look downward and quietly reflect to herself. Honestly I think the media is making this much more about her than it should be and frankly probably more than she intends it to be as well. I don't like that the spotlight was on her over Heather O'Reilly's last game and knowing Rapinoe's character and love for her team, I don't think she wanted it to be either.
Maybe I'm alone in this but until he decided to sit for the anthem, I had never heard of Colin Kaepernick. From what I've read he's a mediocre player on a good day and the 49-ers are about to cut him for his playing ability - or lack of - not for his decision to protest. His protest about the injustices this country has toward minorities has merit - and is not a new one. And the cynic in me thinks this is more about attention for HIM than his passion for the cause. Like I said - I'd never heard of the guy before this - seems a great PR move in a country that seems to reward bad publicity as much as good. You can become rich and famous in this country for being an frivolous twit as long as it's captured on film (Kardashians as example #1)
Rapinoe is taking a big risk doing this - until this she was probably one of the most popular and loved players on the team. Hearing her booed on Sunday was sad to me - because it's a knee jerk reaction by a mostly ignorant public who don't understand that to protest - especially to do so peacefully and quietly - is one of the most American things we can do - people have died for that right.
Finally - kneeling is a reverent act - we kneel in church, we kneel to ask for a hand in marriage. we kneel to pray. Kneeling during the anthem is as respectful in my opinion as standing. If Rapinoe or Kaepernick were sitting, cracking jokes, or blatantly acting out and disrespecting those around them during the anthem, I'd have issue.
And "if you with to represent the USA and wear the National Teams jersey then you should stand for the National Anthem and do your best to be a team player and represent ALL that is GOOD about this country."
if you put it that way, I may kneel during the anthem myself. To say you only want to represent all that is 'GOOD' in this country is subjective and that list will vary by person based on their own beliefs, race, religion, preferences etc. There's a lot wrong in this country and this world - there's a lot right with it too. Embrace it all and honor it to the best of your ability and choices. I am far from threatened by Rapinoe because I understand her message as a whole - I wish the media would focus on that and not the act. But where's the great news bite in that - "athlete invokes constitutional right to protest" doesn't have the same ring to it as 'traitorous witch disrespects the flag and spits on all that is God, Mom and Apple Pie in this country". Which headline will get the most attention?
I hope Rapinoe can come back physically from her surgery to her old form AND withstand this public backlash to continue her career with the USWT - but I doubt both - the first is sad - the second is an even sadder testament to the ignorance in this country.
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Post by youthsoccerdad on Sept 20, 2016 10:10:40 GMT -5
I would rather people respect the Constitution than a song or a piece of cloth - and face it- at the end of the day the National Anthem is a song and the American flag is a piece of cloth, They just REPRESENT the country - the Constitution IS the country. An athlete in the USA uniform represents the country - good, bad, just and unjust - and the right to disagree and protest what they feel is unjust is their right as an American. Last time I checked, every time the anthem is played at an event, it's prefaced with 'Please rise and stand for the anthem' - it's never a requirement - but merely a polite request not demanding respect- which is earned not demanded by the way so if people feel that way, the fact they are sitting quietly and not making noise while others do IS respectful that we disagree or others don't feel the same way they do. Megan Rapinoe is making a conscious decision to kneel quietly during the National Anthem. She's not pumping her fist in air and screaming for change - she's respectfully kneeling while others stand. And looking around the stands during the game Sunday night, many of those standing were also talking to others, eating and drinking while they stood and otherwise not paying a lick of attention to the anthem they claim is being so disrespected by Rapinoe's choice to kneel, look downward and quietly reflect to herself. Honestly I think the media is making this much more about her than it should be and frankly probably more than she intends it to be as well. I don't like that the spotlight was on her over Heather O'Reilly's last game and knowing Rapinoe's character and love for her team, I don't think she wanted it to be either. Maybe I'm alone in this but until he decided to sit for the anthem, I had never heard of Colin Kaepernick. From what I've read he's a mediocre player on a good day and the 49-ers are about to cut him for his playing ability - or lack of - not for his decision to protest. His protest about the injustices this country has toward minorities has merit - and is not a new one. And the cynic in me thinks this is more about attention for HIM than his passion for the cause. Like I said - I'd never heard of the guy before this - seems a great PR move in a country that seems to reward bad publicity as much as good. You can become rich and famous in this country for being an frivolous twit as long as it's captured on film (Kardashians as example #1) Rapinoe is taking a big risk doing this - until this she was probably one of the most popular and loved players on the team. Hearing her booed on Sunday was sad to me - because it's a knee jerk reaction by a mostly ignorant public who don't understand that to protest - especially to do so peacefully and quietly - is one of the most American things we can do - people have died for that right. Finally - kneeling is a reverent act - we kneel in church, we kneel to ask for a hand in marriage. we kneel to pray. Kneeling during the anthem is as respectful in my opinion as standing. If Rapinoe or Kaepernick were sitting, cracking jokes, or blatantly acting out and disrespecting those around them during the anthem, I'd have issue. And "if you with to represent the USA and wear the National Teams jersey then you should stand for the National Anthem and do your best to be a team player and represent ALL that is GOOD about this country." if you put it that way, I may kneel during the anthem myself. To say you only want to represent all that is 'GOOD' in this country is subjective and that list will vary by person based on their own beliefs, race, religion, preferences etc. There's a lot wrong in this country and this world - there's a lot right with it too. Embrace it all and honor it to the best of your ability and choices. I am far from threatened by Rapinoe because I understand her message as a whole - I wish the media would focus on that and not the act. But where's the great news bite in that - "athlete invokes constitutional right to protest" doesn't have the same ring to it as 'traitorous witch disrespects the flag and spits on all that is God, Mom and Apple Pie in this country". Which headline will get the most attention? I hope Rapinoe can come back physically from her surgery to her old form AND withstand this public backlash to continue her career with the USWT - but I doubt both - the first is sad - the second is an even sadder testament to the ignorance in this country. Just because people do not agree with you does not make them ignorant. Do you really have any idea how much people do / do not understand about the protest on either side of this issue? Nope, I am sure there is varying degrees of understanding by everyone. Don't resort to name calling, make your point and leave it there.
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Post by spectator on Sept 20, 2016 11:24:57 GMT -5
Hearing her booed on Sunday was sad to me - because it's a knee jerk reaction by a mostly ignorant public who don't understand that to protest - especially to do so peacefully and quietly - is one of the most American things we can do - people have died for that right.
I hope Rapinoe can come back physically from her surgery to her old form AND withstand this public backlash to continue her career with the USWT - but I doubt both - the first is sad - the second is an even sadder testament to the ignorance in this country.Just because people do not agree with you does not make them ignorant. Do you really have any idea how much people do / do not understand about the protest on either side of this issue? Nope, I am sure there is varying degrees of understanding by everyone. Don't resort to name calling, make your point and leave it there. That's what you got out of my post - that I used the word 'ignorant' twice when referring to people who do not fully understand that Rapinoe has a right to protest peacefully even if they don't agree with what she's doing? Wow! For your information, I used the word "Ignorant' or "Ignorance" in this context as "lacking knowledge or information as to a particular subject or fact" not namecalling. (unless you're referring to me calling the Kardashians 'twits' - and I'll own that one until my dying day - they're more of an embarrassment to this country IMO than Rapinoe's actions) But you read those words as you wanted to with the emotion you obviously feel - but not my intent so don't assign your emotions to my words. I'm sorry that word offended you so much but it is in no way 'namecalling' people that don't agree with me personally. And I'm very aware that many people do not understand the protest issue - it's also called ignorance - as in lacking information on a particular subject.. Problem is those lacking the knowledge will not seek out to learn more and continue to boo Rapinoe, call for her immediate dismissal from the USNT and otherwise accuse her of disrespecting the country because they disagree with her actions. So that's OK in your view but if I use the word 'ignorant' or 'ignorance' I'm name calling? I'll own anything I say or write here but I was not being a big meanie and namecalling anyone! I really don't need your lecture - especially since you obviously didn't read what I wrote beyond those two words.
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Post by rifle on Sept 20, 2016 12:19:54 GMT -5
(Golf clap)
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Post by Soccerhouse on Sept 20, 2016 12:22:48 GMT -5
lets just make sure we keep it nice. Don't want to have to lock the thread.
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Post by rifle on Sept 20, 2016 12:24:10 GMT -5
She did call the Kardashians "twits"...
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Post by rocko1989 on Sept 20, 2016 12:42:52 GMT -5
I do not feel threatened by Rapinoe, nor anyone else protesting in the manner she has chosen to protest.
My thought is this: there is absolutely no question there is injustice at times and places in this country. There is also absolutely nothing wrong with protesting views of injustice. I may not like this form of protest, yet that is also the point of protest. I figure we are not supposed to be "comfortable" with a protest.
That said, as many others have stated, if she chooses to kneel during the anthem for her club team or if NFL players do that during their season, while I may not like that form of protest, I can deal with it. My issue is doing this during a game where you are representing our nation. If you are wearing the uniform and taking the payment from the US National Team, then perhaps show respect for the nation you represent. Another form of protest might be to refuse the call up to the team.
That is my opinion, and I recognize others disagree. We need to remain civil, even during robust debate.
I also think the form of protest has received much more attention than the items being protested. Who is at fault for that I don't know. How that is remedied I don't know. What that says about us I don't know.
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Post by spectator on Sept 20, 2016 13:26:07 GMT -5
I do not feel threatened by Rapinoe, nor anyone else protesting in the manner she has chosen to protest. My thought is this: there is absolutely no question there is injustice at times and places in this country. There is also absolutely nothing wrong with protesting views of injustice. I may not like this form of protest, yet that is also the point of protest. I figure we are not supposed to be "comfortable" with a protest. That said, as many others have stated, if she chooses to kneel during the anthem for her club team or if NFL players do that during their season, while I may not like that form of protest, I can deal with it. My issue is doing this during a game where you are representing our nation. If you are wearing the uniform and taking the payment from the US National Team, then perhaps show respect for the nation you represent. Another form of protest might be to refuse the call up to the team. That is my opinion, and I recognize others disagree. We need to remain civil, even during robust debate. I also think the form of protest has received much more attention than the items being protested. Who is at fault for that I don't know. How that is remedied I don't know. What that says about us I don't know. I don't disagree with you at all. There's one easy way to solve this - the US Soccer needs to state - clearly - the expectations and requirements they have for all players wearing the national team uniform. The statement they released last week was ambiguous and vague and it seems the biggest issue people have is they believe a player on an national team should stand for the National Anthem because they are representing their country. Again - do not disagree - but it's not a mandatory requirement and as such, Rapinoe is full within her rights both as a citizen and player on that team to not stand.
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Post by wannabegreat on Sept 20, 2016 13:38:59 GMT -5
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Post by soccerinsider on Sept 20, 2016 14:40:22 GMT -5
lets just make sure we keep it nice. Don't want to have to lock the thread. I don't see anything that seems to violate the rules of the board. If you are that quick on the "lock" threat, you will keep people - like me - from posting information and getting involved with the discussions. That comment had a chilling effect on me. Be careful or you are going to lose folks. The back and forth to me was maybe a 1 in terms of "not nice" on a scale of 1 to 100.
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Post by th1976 on Sept 20, 2016 18:07:06 GMT -5
I'm astounded at the amount of people still calling the actions of athletes nothing more than "disrespectful". The real disrespect here is the ability to ignore racial injustice.
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Post by rocko1989 on Sept 20, 2016 19:08:05 GMT -5
I do not feel threatened by Rapinoe, nor anyone else protesting in the manner she has chosen to protest. My thought is this: there is absolutely no question there is injustice at times and places in this country. There is also absolutely nothing wrong with protesting views of injustice. I may not like this form of protest, yet that is also the point of protest. I figure we are not supposed to be "comfortable" with a protest. That said, as many others have stated, if she chooses to kneel during the anthem for her club team or if NFL players do that during their season, while I may not like that form of protest, I can deal with it. My issue is doing this during a game where you are representing our nation. If you are wearing the uniform and taking the payment from the US National Team, then perhaps show respect for the nation you represent. Another form of protest might be to refuse the call up to the team. That is my opinion, and I recognize others disagree. We need to remain civil, even during robust debate. I also think the form of protest has received much more attention than the items being protested. Who is at fault for that I don't know. How that is remedied I don't know. What that says about us I don't know. I don't disagree with you at all. There's one easy way to solve this - the US Soccer needs to state - clearly - the expectations and requirements they have for all players wearing the national team uniform. The statement they released last week was ambiguous and vague and it seems the biggest issue people have is they believe a player on an national team should stand for the National Anthem because they are representing their country. Again - do not disagree - but it's not a mandatory requirement and as such, Rapinoe is full within her rights both as a citizen and player on that team to not stand. I have thought a good bit about your response to my statement above. You are certainly correct, US Soccer could create a rule that all players stand for the anthem. Should they have to have a rule requiring certain behavior by players during the anthem? Maybe this episode with Rapinoe shows it is necessary.
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