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Post by rifle on Jan 8, 2017 22:25:03 GMT -5
They're really testing soccer players for standing vertical jump, 30 yd sprint, shuttle run.
No word on track and field relay baton handoff testing.
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Post by soccerfan30 on Jan 8, 2017 22:33:44 GMT -5
I went to a college recruiting combine at CESA a few years and they were doing some of these drills for all the participants.
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Post by Soccerhouse on Jan 9, 2017 12:32:10 GMT -5
Do they have the players taking the wonderlic test?
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Post by parentsoccerfan on Jan 9, 2017 15:24:28 GMT -5
They're really testing soccer players for standing vertical jump, 30 yd sprint, shuttle run. No word on track and field relay baton handoff testing. This closely resembles the U12 DA tryout last year of a club that shall remain nameless.
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Post by rifle on Jan 9, 2017 18:23:18 GMT -5
I hope they did bench press too!
I really want to know how many Neymar can do.
/S
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Post by gaprospects on Jan 9, 2017 18:41:36 GMT -5
What is the issue you all have with this? The majority of these players have 4 years of scouting tape on them from their college and semi-pro days, they're all scrimmaging against each other this week, what's the harm in seeing how quickly they can accelerate or how high they can jump?
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Post by rifle on Jan 9, 2017 22:11:47 GMT -5
What is the issue you all have with this? The majority of these players have 4 years of scouting tape on them from their college and semi-pro days, they're all scrimmaging against each other this week, what's the harm in seeing how quickly they can accelerate or how high they can jump? No harm, but I'm sick of watching bad MLS soccer. I will keep watching regardless, but I think broadcasting "yardstick and stopwatch" results tells the world what MLS values more than anything: a track meet. It prioritizes the wrong attributes.
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Post by soccerfan30 on Jan 9, 2017 23:00:35 GMT -5
Xavi and Iniesta would never win a track meet or jump out the roof but they have superior technical ability and high soccer IQ, which can beat a more athletic physical player.
Just continues the trend as to why we are light years behind everyone else on the mens side.
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Post by gaprospects on Jan 10, 2017 9:59:35 GMT -5
Xavi and Iniesta would never win a track meet or jump out the roof but they have superior technical ability and high soccer IQ, which can beat a more athletic physical player. Just continues the trend as to why we are light years behind everyone else on the mens side. This is a silly comparison. If anyone of Xavi or Iniesta's technical ability and IQ came through the US's system he would never make it to college without getting a contract somewhere, either in the US or abroad. And any player that shows that kind of technical aptitude will have already stood out on tape and in person to pro scouts. These sorts of exercises are only about adding to the scouting profile of the player, not the only thing they are making judgments from. I know you know that though, which leaves me to believe you are just looking for something to shout about.
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Post by soccerfan30 on Jan 10, 2017 12:18:27 GMT -5
Xavi and Iniesta would never win a track meet or jump out the roof but they have superior technical ability and high soccer IQ, which can beat a more athletic physical player. Just continues the trend as to why we are light years behind everyone else on the mens side. This is a silly comparison. If anyone of Xavi or Iniesta's technical ability and IQ came through the US's system he would never make it to college without getting a contract somewhere, either in the US or abroad. And any player that shows that kind of technical aptitude will have already stood out on tape and in person to pro scouts. These sorts of exercises are only about adding to the scouting profile of the player, not the only thing they are making judgments from. I know you know that though, which leaves me to believe you are just looking for something to shout about. I'm not looking to "shout" about anything, like you I am just expressing my thoughts on the subject. I would counter that a Xavi or Iniesta would probably have never attained their level of play had they lived here in the US, if they did they probably would have been dismissed at 13 or 14 years of age because they weren't "athletic" enough, not fast enough or not tall enough. We put too much emphasis on "work rate" and athletic ability and not enough premium on technical ability or soccer intelligence. 75-80% of the Region Pool have birthdays in the first 6 months of the year, why do you think that is? What was the real reason for the birth mandate change? It certainly wasn't for a developmental advantage. Having someone that is physically mature because they have an earlier birthday is going to help us on the world stage? They are totally revamping the women's program because the rest of the world has closed the gap on us and they understand that technically our players simply aren't good enough. We probably have the best fitness and exercise science specialists at our disposal here in the US but the days of getting by on effort, team spirit, blue collar work rate, speed, etc simply aren't enough anymore and you see that in our YNT's and not doing well or advancing in major tournaments. The best players at their respective sports are good because they dedicated thousands of hours on their own developing their craft, even if they didn't have "wow" factor athletic ability: take Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, Wayne Gretzky, John Stockton and many others, they certainly weren't athletic specimens but they had mastery of their craft and had a high IQ to go along with it, not to mention the countless hours they invested in their skills outside of practice. That level of ability isn't coached, it's typically the result of the work they did on their own. Our biggest roadblock is cultural....most kids don't go out and play on their own and develop the creativity they need to excel at the top levels in soccer. When I was growing up parents had to drag us inside, now its the opposite parents have to drag their kids out of the house: too much social media, TV, computers, Playstation, etc. We would go to the park and play 3 v 3 for hours until the sun went down, no coaching just using some bookbags for goals and trying new things. Look at the kids in the inner city that play basketball, they literally carry a basketball around everywhere they go, they are always dribbling, working on moves, crossovers, going to play pickup, etc. That's why we typically produce the best basketball players. Now imagine if you went to a local park and saw dozens of soccer kids playing pick up or out there dribbling through cones, emulating moves they see on TV, etc....that more so than coaching, private training or more practices would have the biggest positive benefit in soccer development and having a larger pool of players that can play at the highest levels.
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Post by alacrity174 on Jan 10, 2017 12:59:41 GMT -5
This is a silly comparison. If anyone of Xavi or Iniesta's technical ability and IQ came through the US's system he would never make it to college without getting a contract somewhere, either in the US or abroad. And any player that shows that kind of technical aptitude will have already stood out on tape and in person to pro scouts. These sorts of exercises are only about adding to the scouting profile of the player, not the only thing they are making judgments from. I know you know that though, which leaves me to believe you are just looking for something to shout about. I'm not looking to "shout" about anything, like you I am just expressing my thoughts on the subject. I would counter that a Xavi or Iniesta would probably have never attained their level of play had they lived here in the US, if they did they probably would have been dismissed at 13 or 14 years of age because they weren't "athletic" enough, not fast enough or not tall enough. We put too much emphasis on "work rate" and athletic ability and not enough premium on technical ability or soccer intelligence. 75-80% of the Region Pool have birthdays in the first 6 months of the year, why do you think that is? What was the real reason for the birth mandate change? It certainly wasn't for a developmental advantage. Having someone that is physically mature because they have an earlier birthday is going to help us on the world stage? They are totally revamping the women's program because the rest of the world has closed the gap on us and they understand that technically our players simply aren't good enough. We probably have the best fitness and exercise science specialists at our disposal here in the US but the days of getting by on effort, team spirit, blue collar work rate, speed, etc simply aren't enough anymore and you see that in our YNT's and not doing well or advancing in major tournaments. The best players at their respective sports are good because they dedicated thousands of hours on their own developing their craft, even if they didn't have "wow" factor athletic ability: take Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, Wayne Gretzky, John Stockton and many others, they certainly weren't athletic specimens but they had mastery of their craft and had a high IQ to go along with it, not to mention the countless hours they invested in their skills outside of practice. That level of ability isn't coached, it's typically the result of the work they did on their own. Our biggest roadblock is cultural....most kids don't go out and play on their own and develop the creativity they need to excel at the top levels in soccer. When I was growing up parents had to drag us inside, now its the opposite parents have to drag their kids out of the house: too much social media, TV, computers, Playstation, etc. We would go to the park and play 3 v 3 for hours until the sun went down, no coaching just using some bookbags for goals and trying new things. Look at the kids in the inner city that play basketball, they literally carry a basketball around everywhere they go, they are always dribbling, working on moves, crossovers, going to play pickup, etc. That's why we typically produce the best basketball players. Now imagine if you went to a local park and saw dozens of soccer kids playing pick up or out there dribbling through cones, emulating moves they see on TV, etc....that more so than coaching, private training or more practices would have the biggest positive benefit in soccer development and having a larger pool of players that can play at the highest levels. Finally something I agree with 100%, all this focus on athleticism is what is killing soccer here in the US. As you said Xavi, Iniesta or even Messi would never have played on a top team here they would have been on a CIII team and likely have lost interest in soccer very early on. Your example of kids playing the game because they love it is also spot on, we should be promoting this, not stopping players playing, there is nothing wrong with a pick up game where the pitch is as big as you need it with coats for goalposts and 15 a side, this is where the small kids learn to beat the bigger kids, where skills are learnt and practiced and where the true love of the game comes in. Back to the original point of what is wrong with a vertical jump, simply put it has nothing to do with soccer, if you are trying to head a ball from a dead stop and just looking to go up, you were in the wrong position to start with and the better player will already have his run up and will probably beat you to the ball anyway.
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Post by Soccerhouse on Jan 10, 2017 14:32:07 GMT -5
I think it really comes down to our best athletes, freak athletes that could have exceled at any sport aren't playing soccer like mentioned above. Yes, soccer is a different sport etc, but the best of the best are playing 3 sports a year - football, hoops, than baseball or track/field. Period. Yes, role players are a completely different story though, I think those are the kind of players that US soccer and most our local clubs have no idea how to identify etc. Player are labeled in america at 9 as either being a top player or not. It is extremely difficult for a 2nd/3rd team players to rise the ranks. you have coaches that never speak to one another, coaches that never watch the 2nd /3rd teams play, coaches who have been with teams for agees and have preconceived notions etc. Its easy to pick out the top 2 to 3 players its the next 8 players that trully make a team special and that is where most of US soccer fails. even soccerfan30 had mentioned in the past I believe being around Odell Beckham Jr as a young soccer player. These guys are freakish athletic. Their combination of size, power, and speed is totally insane. Does it equate to soccer IQ and soccer skills --- NO..... But imagine if these guys played the sport at the younger age and stuck with it as their bodies matured etc. Wow.. Broken record I know, but these dudes have another level of athleticism. And yes the best soccer players in the world are freakish athletic etc also, the little guys like xavi and iniesta are even more special given they probably weigh 135 wet. Comes back to imagine telling a stud athlete that at 15 they can't play high school basketball, when the kid is a 6'4" point guard etc and excels on the soccer pitch. Kids gonna leave soccer for sure and never look back.
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Post by gaprospects on Jan 10, 2017 16:10:28 GMT -5
This is a silly comparison. If anyone of Xavi or Iniesta's technical ability and IQ came through the US's system he would never make it to college without getting a contract somewhere, either in the US or abroad. And any player that shows that kind of technical aptitude will have already stood out on tape and in person to pro scouts. These sorts of exercises are only about adding to the scouting profile of the player, not the only thing they are making judgments from. I know you know that though, which leaves me to believe you are just looking for something to shout about. I'm not looking to "shout" about anything, like you I am just expressing my thoughts on the subject. I would counter that a Xavi or Iniesta would probably have never attained their level of play had they lived here in the US, if they did they probably would have been dismissed at 13 or 14 years of age because they weren't "athletic" enough, not fast enough or not tall enough. We put too much emphasis on "work rate" and athletic ability and not enough premium on technical ability or soccer intelligence. 75-80% of the Region Pool have birthdays in the first 6 months of the year, why do you think that is? What was the real reason for the birth mandate change? It certainly wasn't for a developmental advantage. Having someone that is physically mature because they have an earlier birthday is going to help us on the world stage? They are totally revamping the women's program because the rest of the world has closed the gap on us and they understand that technically our players simply aren't good enough. We probably have the best fitness and exercise science specialists at our disposal here in the US but the days of getting by on effort, team spirit, blue collar work rate, speed, etc simply aren't enough anymore and you see that in our YNT's and not doing well or advancing in major tournaments. The best players at their respective sports are good because they dedicated thousands of hours on their own developing their craft, even if they didn't have "wow" factor athletic ability: take Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, Wayne Gretzky, John Stockton and many others, they certainly weren't athletic specimens but they had mastery of their craft and had a high IQ to go along with it, not to mention the countless hours they invested in their skills outside of practice. That level of ability isn't coached, it's typically the result of the work they did on their own. Our biggest roadblock is cultural....most kids don't go out and play on their own and develop the creativity they need to excel at the top levels in soccer. When I was growing up parents had to drag us inside, now its the opposite parents have to drag their kids out of the house: too much social media, TV, computers, Playstation, etc. We would go to the park and play 3 v 3 for hours until the sun went down, no coaching just using some bookbags for goals and trying new things. Look at the kids in the inner city that play basketball, they literally carry a basketball around everywhere they go, they are always dribbling, working on moves, crossovers, going to play pickup, etc. That's why we typically produce the best basketball players. Now imagine if you went to a local park and saw dozens of soccer kids playing pick up or out there dribbling through cones, emulating moves they see on TV, etc....that more so than coaching, private training or more practices would have the biggest positive benefit in soccer development and having a larger pool of players that can play at the highest levels. I do agree with most of this, especially the distribution of ages at development academy clubs. Culturally there are certain things holding us back from taking that next step as a soccer nation. My follow up question, then, is what can be done about it. You yourself are a youth coach, so how are you and other coaches promoting different aspects of the game other than physicality? How much control do you have at your club over whether physical or mental traits are being rewarded with team placement and attention to development? You give the example of undersized kids without the best athleticism being dismissed at 13 and 14, but you are someone who is in a position to keep those kids invested. I don't want to come across as accusing anything, but you aren't the first youth coach I've heard this criticism from. Too often I find coaches that understand these problems yet are unwilling to do anything about it.
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Post by rifle on Jan 10, 2017 17:53:26 GMT -5
What can be done? Spread the word!
I choose to do it by ridiculing things like the MLS draft combine. If it made anybody think, them I am pleased.
[Hat tip to Soccerfan30 for the wall of accuracy]
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Post by soccerfan30 on Jan 10, 2017 18:48:56 GMT -5
I'm not looking to "shout" about anything, like you I am just expressing my thoughts on the subject. I would counter that a Xavi or Iniesta would probably have never attained their level of play had they lived here in the US, if they did they probably would have been dismissed at 13 or 14 years of age because they weren't "athletic" enough, not fast enough or not tall enough. We put too much emphasis on "work rate" and athletic ability and not enough premium on technical ability or soccer intelligence. 75-80% of the Region Pool have birthdays in the first 6 months of the year, why do you think that is? What was the real reason for the birth mandate change? It certainly wasn't for a developmental advantage. Having someone that is physically mature because they have an earlier birthday is going to help us on the world stage? They are totally revamping the women's program because the rest of the world has closed the gap on us and they understand that technically our players simply aren't good enough. We probably have the best fitness and exercise science specialists at our disposal here in the US but the days of getting by on effort, team spirit, blue collar work rate, speed, etc simply aren't enough anymore and you see that in our YNT's and not doing well or advancing in major tournaments. The best players at their respective sports are good because they dedicated thousands of hours on their own developing their craft, even if they didn't have "wow" factor athletic ability: take Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, Wayne Gretzky, John Stockton and many others, they certainly weren't athletic specimens but they had mastery of their craft and had a high IQ to go along with it, not to mention the countless hours they invested in their skills outside of practice. That level of ability isn't coached, it's typically the result of the work they did on their own. Our biggest roadblock is cultural....most kids don't go out and play on their own and develop the creativity they need to excel at the top levels in soccer. When I was growing up parents had to drag us inside, now its the opposite parents have to drag their kids out of the house: too much social media, TV, computers, Playstation, etc. We would go to the park and play 3 v 3 for hours until the sun went down, no coaching just using some bookbags for goals and trying new things. Look at the kids in the inner city that play basketball, they literally carry a basketball around everywhere they go, they are always dribbling, working on moves, crossovers, going to play pickup, etc. That's why we typically produce the best basketball players. Now imagine if you went to a local park and saw dozens of soccer kids playing pick up or out there dribbling through cones, emulating moves they see on TV, etc....that more so than coaching, private training or more practices would have the biggest positive benefit in soccer development and having a larger pool of players that can play at the highest levels. I do agree with most of this, especially the distribution of ages at development academy clubs. Culturally there are certain things holding us back from taking that next step as a soccer nation. My follow up question, then, is what can be done about it. You yourself are a youth coach, so how are you and other coaches promoting different aspects of the game other than physicality? How much control do you have at your club over whether physical or mental traits are being rewarded with team placement and attention to development? You give the example of undersized kids without the best athleticism being dismissed at 13 and 14, but you are someone who is in a position to keep those kids invested. I don't want to come across as accusing anything, but you aren't the first youth coach I've heard this criticism from. Too often I find coaches that understand these problems yet are unwilling to do anything about it. With all due respect I don't just "talk the talk", I try to instill the love of the game and try to actually develop my players. I currently coach club, ODP, High School and Women's College Soccer. Everyday I am doing as much as I can to develop the players and teach them what I believe is the right way to play. I've been at Tophat for over seven years and regardless of anyone's club affiliation or biases I would wager most if not all people would say Tophat has a local and national track record for developing technically skilled players that can possess, build out of the back and keep the ball. Although the technical and athletic abilities may be different even most of our third and fourth level teams try to keep the ball and play possession soccer. I value technical ability and soccer IQ over anything else and that's what I look for, now if they have superior athletic traits to go along with then that's even better. I don't want someone that's 6 ft tall that has a poor first touch, no technical skill that can just outrun people. I do keep my kids invested and I do what I can to promote the ideals I mentioned above but I'm only one person. The only thing that will change it is to take the parents money out of the equation. Coaches feel pressure to win because if they don't their better players will leave, additionally many parents aren't going to wait and be patient to allow kids to develop, we live in an immediate gratification society unfortunately, most parents only see development through wins and losses. You have to allow kids to fail so they can ultimately succeed. Also I don't "Nintendo coach", meaning I don't yell out instructions every five seconds, if a coach is doing that they haven't properly prepared their players during the week. Additionally players have to be able to think for themselves, you can't tell them what to do every 30 seconds. Yes I see the problems but until culturally we change, take parents somewhat out of the financial equation and stop focusing on just 1% of the player base 20 years down the road we will be having the same conversation. Anyway it's been a good discussuon, I'm off to Tophat Soccer camp, have a good night.
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Post by Futsal Gawdess on Jan 10, 2017 19:40:17 GMT -5
They're really testing soccer players for standing vertical jump, 30 yd sprint, shuttle run. No word on track and field relay baton handoff testing. This closely resembles the U12 DA tryout last year of a club that shall remain nameless. Seriously, a local club did that at the U12 level? Please share the club.
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Post by Futsal Gawdess on Jan 10, 2017 19:52:28 GMT -5
This is a silly comparison. If anyone of Xavi or Iniesta's technical ability and IQ came through the US's system he would never make it to college without getting a contract somewhere, either in the US or abroad. And any player that shows that kind of technical aptitude will have already stood out on tape and in person to pro scouts. These sorts of exercises are only about adding to the scouting profile of the player, not the only thing they are making judgments from. I know you know that though, which leaves me to believe you are just looking for something to shout about. I'm not looking to "shout" about anything, like you I am just expressing my thoughts on the subject. I would counter that a Xavi or Iniesta would probably have never attained their level of play had they lived here in the US, if they did they probably would have been dismissed at 13 or 14 years of age because they weren't "athletic" enough, not fast enough or not tall enough. We put too much emphasis on "work rate" and athletic ability and not enough premium on technical ability or soccer intelligence. 75-80% of the Region Pool have birthdays in the first 6 months of the year, why do you think that is? What was the real reason for the birth mandate change? It certainly wasn't for a developmental advantage. Having someone that is physically mature because they have an earlier birthday is going to help us on the world stage? They are totally revamping the women's program because the rest of the world has closed the gap on us and they understand that technically our players simply aren't good enough. We probably have the best fitness and exercise science specialists at our disposal here in the US but the days of getting by on effort, team spirit, blue collar work rate, speed, etc simply aren't enough anymore and you see that in our YNT's and not doing well or advancing in major tournaments. The best players at their respective sports are good because they dedicated thousands of hours on their own developing their craft, even if they didn't have "wow" factor athletic ability: take Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, Wayne Gretzky, John Stockton and many others, they certainly weren't athletic specimens but they had mastery of their craft and had a high IQ to go along with it, not to mention the countless hours they invested in their skills outside of practice. That level of ability isn't coached, it's typically the result of the work they did on their own. Our biggest roadblock is cultural....most kids don't go out and play on their own and develop the creativity they need to excel at the top levels in soccer. When I was growing up parents had to drag us inside, now its the opposite parents have to drag their kids out of the house: too much social media, TV, computers, Playstation, etc. We would go to the park and play 3 v 3 for hours until the sun went down, no coaching just using some bookbags for goals and trying new things. Look at the kids in the inner city that play basketball, they literally carry a basketball around everywhere they go, they are always dribbling, working on moves, crossovers, going to play pickup, etc. That's why we typically produce the best basketball players. Now imagine if you went to a local park and saw dozens of soccer kids playing pick up or out there dribbling through cones, emulating moves they see on TV, etc....that more so than coaching, private training or more practices would have the biggest positive benefit in soccer development and having a larger pool of players that can play at the highest levels. OMG you hit this spot on, I've been saying this for years. Thanks for sharing your thoughts in an articulate and well thought out manner. Enjoy camp
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Post by gaprospects on Jan 11, 2017 0:24:43 GMT -5
I do agree with most of this, especially the distribution of ages at development academy clubs. Culturally there are certain things holding us back from taking that next step as a soccer nation. My follow up question, then, is what can be done about it. You yourself are a youth coach, so how are you and other coaches promoting different aspects of the game other than physicality? How much control do you have at your club over whether physical or mental traits are being rewarded with team placement and attention to development? You give the example of undersized kids without the best athleticism being dismissed at 13 and 14, but you are someone who is in a position to keep those kids invested. I don't want to come across as accusing anything, but you aren't the first youth coach I've heard this criticism from. Too often I find coaches that understand these problems yet are unwilling to do anything about it. With all due respect I don't just "talk the talk", I try to instill the love of the game and try to actually develop my players. I currently coach club, ODP, High School and Women's College Soccer. Everyday I am doing as much as I can to develop the players and teach them what I believe is the right way to play. I've been at Tophat for over seven years and regardless of anyone's club affiliation or biases I would wager most if not all people would say Tophat has a local and national track record for developing technically skilled players that can possess, build out of the back and keep the ball. Although the technical and athletic abilities may be different even most of our third and fourth level teams try to keep the ball and play possession soccer. I value technical ability and soccer IQ over anything else and that's what I look for, now if they have superior athletic traits to go along with then that's even better. I don't want someone that's 6 ft tall that has a poor first touch, no technical skill that can just outrun people. I do keep my kids invested and I do what I can to promote the ideals I mentioned above but I'm only one person. The only thing that will change it is to take the parents money out of the equation. Coaches feel pressure to win because if they don't their better players will leave, additionally many parents aren't going to wait and be patient to allow kids to develop, we live in an immediate gratification society unfortunately, most parents only see development through wins and losses. You have to allow kids to fail so they can ultimately succeed. Also I don't "Nintendo coach", meaning I don't yell out instructions every five seconds, if a coach is doing that they haven't properly prepared their players during the week. Additionally players have to be able to think for themselves, you can't tell them what to do every 30 seconds. Yes I see the problems but until culturally we change, take parents somewhat out of the financial equation and stop focusing on just 1% of the player base 20 years down the road we will be having the same conversation. Anyway it's been a good discussuon, I'm off to Tophat Soccer camp, have a good night. I appreciate the discourse friend, I'm always looking for opportunities to learn from those who know more than myself. Until next time!
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Post by guest on Jan 11, 2017 11:48:50 GMT -5
Our biggest roadblock is cultural....most kids don't go out and play on their own and develop the creativity they need to excel at the top levels in soccer. When I was growing up parents had to drag us inside, now its the opposite parents have to drag their kids out of the house: too much social media, TV, computers, Playstation, etc. We would go to the park and play 3 v 3 for hours until the sun went down, no coaching just using some bookbags for goals and trying new things. Look at the kids in the inner city that play basketball, they literally carry a basketball around everywhere they go, they are always dribbling, working on moves, crossovers, going to play pickup, etc. That's why we typically produce the best basketball players. Now imagine if you went to a local park and saw dozens of soccer kids playing pick up or out there dribbling through cones, emulating moves they see on TV, etc....that more so than coaching, private training or more practices would have the biggest positive benefit in soccer development and having a larger pool of players that can play at the highest levels. Agree with this sentiment. This is a big complaint that I have. At least in Gwinnett, parks are permit use only. Fields are fenced in, locked up. Cops will come if you hop the fence for some pickup games or practice.
Remember the movie "The Sandlot"? Would never happen today; those spaces don't exist. The only thing we have left these days is organized sports. I am a big fan of organized youth sports, I coach or officiate in four different sports. But there is a strong undercurrent in almost all of them towards developing the next Elite athlete. We are lucky in soccer to be able to play Rec all the way through high school (swimming too). Rec baseball or football for older kids? Nope. Basketball at least you can put a hoop up in your driveway.
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