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Post by soccerlegacy on Apr 14, 2017 11:27:13 GMT -5
Having followed this board for the past couple of years, I have been impressed by the extensive knowledge with many of the posters here. With that said, I would like to ask your opinions on the topic of possibly changing clubs.
Here is the situation.... My daughter, (who is U11 academy) plays for a smaller club that has a pretty decent team. They usually handle other clubs here size with ease, but struggle with the top flight clubs. She is a quality player that matches up well with most of these top clubs, it just the depth of their rosters that makes her team struggle.
I like the club we are at (especially it proximity to our house) but I'm worried that as she gets to U13 and the 11 v 11 rosters, the team will become even more diluted with talent (top to bottom) and I want her to have formative competition when she gets to that level. I'm thinking long term of moving to another club so that the talent pool is deeper.
My question is, when should that move occur? U12? U13? She gets very good coaching right now and I'm happy with that, but if we were to make a move will it hurt her chances of making the top team at another club if she is not already in their system come U13 tryouts? Or could that benefit her by being some one new showing up at the the U13 tryouts?
Any advice or experience with this situation would help.
Thank you!
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Post by jash on Apr 14, 2017 14:26:02 GMT -5
How far would the drive be to the nearest big clubs? For us it's quite a long drive. While some people who made the switch are still happy, many (very many) of them regret changing and driving so much. It just wasn't worth it at all, looking back on it from some of the oldest ages in GA Youth Soccer. My experience, though, is mostly on the boys side, where meaningful scholarship opportunities are practically non-existent.
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Post by footy on Apr 14, 2017 15:27:40 GMT -5
My question is, when should that move occur? U12? U13? She gets very good coaching right now and I'm happy with that, but if we were to make a move will it hurt her chances of making the top team at another club if she is not already in their system come U13 tryouts? Or could that benefit her by being some one new showing up at the the U13 tryouts? I think kids should change clubs when they are no longer developing where they are. I don't think the exact age when someone changes clubs is that important. It couldn't hurt to at least try out somewhere if only to see where she stands in her age group at other clubs now. If she looks good compared to other top team players, now may be the time to switch her over and get her established in the new system if that's where you ultimately want her to be by U13. If she's good enough to make the top team there and the coaching is as good or better, and you know or think that's where she's going next, what's the down side to changing now (other than possibly being farther away, as jash mentioned)? If everyone is trying to change clubs at U13, a short tryout may not allow them to stand out, whereas if she moves now, by then she would be a known entity to the club and may be more likely to stay on their top team. Also, if she tries out and is offered a top spot, are you willing to move her now? If not, I wouldn't bother trying out in case she burns any bridges by turning them down, although high quality coaches will want good players any time and not hold a grudge.
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Post by spectator on Apr 14, 2017 21:37:37 GMT -5
Having followed this board for the past couple of years, I have been impressed by the extensive knowledge with many of the posters here. With that said, I would like to ask your opinions on the topic of possibly changing clubs. Here is the situation.... My daughter, (who is U11 academy) plays for a smaller club that has a pretty decent team. They usually handle other clubs here size with ease, but struggle with the top flight clubs. She is a quality player that matches up well with most of these top clubs, it just the depth of their rosters that makes her team struggle. I like the club we are at (especially it proximity to our house) but I'm worried that as she gets to U13 and the 11 v 11 rosters, the team will become even more diluted with talent (top to bottom) and I want her to have formative competition when she gets to that level. I'm thinking long term of moving to another club so that the talent pool is deeper. My question is, when should that move occur? U12? U13? She gets very good coaching right now and I'm happy with that, but if we were to make a move will it hurt her chances of making the top team at another club if she is not already in their system come U13 tryouts? Or could that benefit her by being some one new showing up at the the U13 tryouts? Any advice or experience with this situation would help. Thank you! My advice/experience/perspective: If you are happy with the club and the coaching she's getting now at U11, give it one more year and play U12 there. U13 tryouts are when a lot of kids from smaller clubs will make the move to larger ones and truth be told, they are given the best looks since they are the newest shiniest kids on the block at tryouts there. Don't burn your bridge at the current club - you may get a good U13 draw but honestly, you are probably right about the dilution of talent by the time you get to 11v11 so keep an open mind and scout out other clubs to tryout for U13. If your current club is able to field a good team and get a good placement - preferably Athena A - you could stay there but you're probably going to end up leaving by U14 anyway since smaller clubs have a harder time keeping teams together as they age. BUT - I'd stay put for the last year of Academy. Be the 'new' kid at U13 and hopefully she'll land on a higher level team at the bigger club. Try out a few places to make sure you get the best placement. However, while she's playing U12 Academy, try to see if any of the bigger clubs you're considering offer camps during the summer or school breaks and make sure you have her attend - to get a feel for the club and the coaches. If she hates either, move on. But at the very least, she'll get a 'test drive' of what the clubs are like. We were in a very similar situation and made the move at U14 - only because the club we started at could not sustain strong teams past U12-U13, My advice - stay at your current club for U12 but be shopping around during that year and know you're most likely leaving by U13.
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Post by Strikeorkeep on Apr 17, 2017 7:39:27 GMT -5
We are unfortunately on other end of the possibly changing clubs spectrum (large to smaller?).
I have a Academy kid at a large club that has probably 14-16 "A" players so there is not enough room on the top team. Second team is competitive and plays lots of top teams from other clubs. Perception is the top team is the only one getting attention/coaching this spring while the second team coach has other commitments.
The development of the second team has regressed so much I've gone outside the club for supplemental coaching. Being on the top team isn't the thing right now in Academy, its getting the coaching you need to grow and improve as a team/player. Just seems if you are not on top team, you don't get that.
So know I wonder if I should go to either smaller club or another bigger club with the hope they get some attention and development? Obviously U13 the teams expand but you'll get kids from smaller clubs that had attention given to them to develop.
Is it usually par for the course with clubs where a kid is a "A" team throughout their entire Academy career and the second team doesn't get opportunities to grow and challenge to get more attention/development on that top team?
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Post by Soccerhouse on Apr 17, 2017 8:21:55 GMT -5
The pressure on a kid is definitely less on a 2nd team at the younger ages and they have more freedom to explore and be creative without the fear of losing. I've even heard coaches make comments to parents and kids about "now that they are on the top team, expectations are higher and the pressure to perform is greater" --- this was to rising u9s.........
No reason this is the case ---- given at the younger age groups these games are literally just friendlies every weekend.
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Post by Strikeorkeep on Apr 17, 2017 8:55:51 GMT -5
The pressure on a kid is definitely less on a 2nd team at the younger ages and they have more freedom to explore and be creative without the fear of losing. I've even heard coaches make comments to parents and kids about "now that they are on the top team, expectations are higher and the pressure to perform is greater" --- this was to rising u9s......... No reason this is the case ---- given at the younger age groups these games are literally just friendlies every weekend. Believe me, like the idea of lower pressure but just curious if its similar at other clubs where all the coaching gets poured into the top team in terms of development/advancement? What team right now in Academy isn't the end game, its getting better, develop as a player, having fun, and get challenged IMO. And some of those are not being met. Starts to open up the question of changing clubs if its not like this everywhere.
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Post by Soccerhouse on Apr 17, 2017 9:22:47 GMT -5
To me in my experience its really been coach dependent and mostly driven by how many teams the coach has. When the coach has 3 teams, I noticed the extra sessions and extra scrimmages or weekend sessions didn't happen like they did when our coach only had us or even 1 other team. In addition, the same is/was true if our coach coached a higher level older team where that team really was their number 1 priority vs the younger u9-u12 side.
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Post by soccerlegacy on Apr 17, 2017 9:44:36 GMT -5
Thanks for the replies, and keep them coming... I would like to get as many thoughtful replies as I can to think this through.
I'd also like to add to the equation that the smaller club my daughter is with could possibly be losing one of her teammates, in fact, the best one on her team (and possibly one of the best in her entire age group). This would make the team regress quite a bit. The problem with the diluted talent is that for the better players on her team, I'm worried their play will suffer. For instance, they will string passes together beautifully until it reaches those lesser players and the ball is turned over. They can not sustain possession for extedned periods of time and I'm worried that by not being able to experience how to move the ball around for a sustained period, that it will ultimately hurt as she moves on into older age brackets.
Again the coaching is top notch, it's the execution with some of her teammates that suffers and I'm worried that will hinder her going forward? Is that a logical fear I should have?
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Post by fanatic21 on Apr 17, 2017 10:44:24 GMT -5
Is your daughter happy where she's at? Is she motivated and passionate about the game and improving? Or is she getting frustrated with the level of play? If coaching is top notch, if team is reasonably competitive, if daughter is staying motivated, I'd stay at the local club for at least another year or two. No reason to spend a lot of extra hours in the car each week, especially at 10/11 years old, for something that may not even be better than what you have - in terms of devevelopment and motivation for your daughter. No reason to mess with a good thing. Personally I believe it is the individual player who ultimately determines how good she is going to be - sure coaching is important, playing at a higher level helps, but player motivation and passion is what's most important. If she's losing motivation and her passion because of the level of play, it's time to consider a move.
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Post by soccerboysmom on Apr 18, 2017 5:31:35 GMT -5
Strikeorkeep, unfortunately in our experience that has been the case at 2 different clubs now. At the previous club, it was very frustrating how obvious the difference in treatment for the boys on the lower team-less attention given during training; more players grouped together with the lower team during training, which usually meant a player sitting out waiting for their turn to join a drill; fewer games; larger rosters during games meaning less playing time; an overall lower expectation of the players, not pushing them to do more; I really could go on and on. It was very frustrating, because as you said, the most important thing for younger players is to get quality coaching, and develop their skills. It almost becomes a self fulfilling prophesy -everyone thinks certain players are the best at that age, so they get the best/most of everthing which of course continues to make them better. It is ideal for those players, but what about the others? All players should be encouraged to grow wherever they are developmentally, regardless of what their ceiling is. We were forced to change clubs due to the age mandate, and some of these things have improved for his age group (U12) because they are the only team and don't have a full roster, but I see similar trends with the U11 boys. An unfortunate side effect of this mentality is that even parents and other players start to notice and treat the "lower" players poorly. It can really become a toxic environment. I hope you are able to find a healthy environment for your player-over time, these issues can start to effect the way they feel about the game, and whether they want to continue or not. Which to me is so sad.
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Post by infoguy on Apr 18, 2017 6:36:38 GMT -5
I haven't read all the responses. But I will say there's no one answer for all kids, only that you will know when it's time. I do think that there are a handful of clubs that coach right and offer growth opportunity. If you feel that your kid isn't receiving the same attention as others at a very young age, then leave that club immediately. My pet peeve is when a coach feels they can label a child at U-10/U-11 as not having the right stuff - I have seen so many late bloomers.
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Post by Strikeorkeep on Apr 18, 2017 6:54:08 GMT -5
Strikeorkeep, unfortunately in our experience that has been the case at 2 different clubs now. At the previous club, it was very frustrating how obvious the difference in treatment for the boys on the lower team-less attention given during training; more players grouped together with the lower team during training, which usually meant a player sitting out waiting for their turn to join a drill; fewer games; larger rosters during games meaning less playing time; an overall lower expectation of the players, not pushing them to do more; I really could go on and on. It was very frustrating, because as you said, the most important thing for younger players is to get quality coaching, and develop their skills. It almost becomes a self fulfilling prophesy -everyone thinks certain players are the best at that age, so they get the best/most of everthing which of course continues to make them better. It is ideal for those players, but what about the others? All players should be encouraged to grow wherever they are developmentally, regardless of what their ceiling is. We were forced to change clubs due to the age mandate, and some of these things have improved for his age group (U12) because they are the only team and don't have a full roster, but I see similar trends with the U11 boys. An unfortunate side effect of this mentality is that even parents and other players start to notice and treat the "lower" players poorly. It can really become a toxic environment. I hope you are able to find a healthy environment for your player-over time, these issues can start to effect the way they feel about the game, and whether they want to continue or not. Which to me is so sad. Thanks for your feedback. You are dead on about the self fullfilling prophecy as I am watching it before my own eyes. Thus having to go outside the club for private coaching so my kid can keep up. Our B team is very competitive (which is great) as we play top teams from other clubs successfully but the development on the team concept (possession, playing to feet, play the way you face) hasn't been there since fall. And to Soccerhouse point above, our coach has other team commitments that take precedent over our team. Just wish the club would plan accordingly to offset sometimes 3 out of 4 Academy coaches missing practice. Just dont know if it would be any better (or worse) if we were to move clubs.
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