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Post by Soccerhouse on Oct 10, 2017 20:57:14 GMT -5
What a joke!!
Such uninspired Soccer.
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Post by jash on Oct 10, 2017 21:01:49 GMT -5
At least we can warm ourselves with the knowledge that we have an awesome age group mandate. And build-out lines. And more players on smaller fields. And more ELITE leagues than you can shake a stick at.
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Post by rifle on Oct 10, 2017 21:07:35 GMT -5
P/R makes it important to perform in every game, not coast though half the season. But "it's not right for this country".
Do you think that perception will ever change?
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Post by zizou on Oct 10, 2017 21:13:06 GMT -5
Off the top I think this cost the Federation 12 million from FIFA. That does not include sponsorships, TV rights, etc. That is if you don't get out of group stage.
Arena just blamed the center backs in post game interview and then said there is nothing wrong with what we are doing in US Soccer. There is your problem right there.
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Post by Soccerhouse on Oct 10, 2017 21:29:47 GMT -5
Twellman with a few great rants
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Post by Soccerhouse on Oct 10, 2017 21:36:59 GMT -5
The lack of movement off the ball is damn right sorry. Shocking to watch professionals just standing around.
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Post by jash on Oct 10, 2017 21:39:16 GMT -5
If Altidore ever steps on the field again for the USA it will be a travesty.
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Post by zizou on Oct 10, 2017 21:41:10 GMT -5
The lack of movement off the ball is damn right sorry. Shocking to watch professionals just standing around. This is one reason why ball movement is so slow. There are no good passing angles. And then to have the whole damned team stand around while Tim Howard has to go defend on edge of box. He was out there 1v1 defending for like 6-8 seconds. Where were his defenders?
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Post by zizou on Oct 10, 2017 21:43:24 GMT -5
If Altidore ever steps on the field again for the USA it will be a travesty. He was an embarrassment tonight for sure. Looked like he had nothing to give or did not care to give anything. Hate to even have to phrase it that way.
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Post by newposter on Oct 10, 2017 21:59:55 GMT -5
Completely embarrassed by the last place team. Time to tear up the current training system. Obviously it's not working. Parents need to wake up. Until relegation is used everywhere this is what result to expect.
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Post by Soccerhouse on Oct 10, 2017 22:20:10 GMT -5
Fewest points in the history of the hex.
This is so painful.
What’s scary — nothing will change.
An elite new league will be created. Parents will continue to pay more for less. The eliteness has to stop!!
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Post by Soccerhouse on Oct 10, 2017 22:32:02 GMT -5
The full rant
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Post by Keeper on Oct 10, 2017 22:39:13 GMT -5
So we really don't need a Men's team since they can't make an Olympics or World Cup can they just disband the whole program and throw all the money and resources to the Women's program? I mean at least they have a shot to make a World Cup don't think they'll win again under current management though.
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Post by soccerdaddy on Oct 11, 2017 0:17:37 GMT -5
Well said Taylor. He is regurgitating his Soccer experience from the time he started playing to where he is NOW. I too feel Embarrassed that my country didn't make it. Why?
Sorry, but I feel like it is obvious that the US puts winning before DEVELOPMENT, especially at a young age and these are the consequences for when it matters. How do you get into the National team? It seems there are many avenues as you start kicking the ball and pay a club to play as a 3 or 4 year old. It's a long process and it looks like for the last 10 years are coming out of Development Academy for the most part. I'm sure ODP has some as well and did in the past. How do they get there? It's a mystery to me?
I am guilty just as much as the Clubs making huge profits from soccer in the US. We are continuing to "PAY TO PLAY" so this Club ball business for development is paying off for when they get to be young adults? Why practicing to win and not develop? We need to come together to UNITE and that's the only way we can win when it counts! Not lose when it counts, like TODAY! Change the top all the way to the bottom or else we are going to stay the joke of Soccer with the rest of the world.
Good point about starting a 10 year plan. What are we missing and what does Brazil, Spain or Germany look for in a player at age 8, 10 or 12 or 14? We have too many players at a young age that are passionate about soccer that get overlooked. I see a lot of players at a YOUNG age get passed up because they are not yet dominant in games. They have great footwork skills and ball control at age 5 - 15. However, they are not considered for top teams Classic or Athena, ODP and especially DA until they get the speed or have size necessary to connect the dots. In this game, what is more important than ball control? I'm speaking as a parent and former team manager I have seen the dominating teams in Academy/Select from U9 - U13 have the bigger and faster players over the ones that can really control the ball or have great footwork. There is a win NOW mentality at a young age and it needs to STOP ASAP. What attributes of a player does Germany identify they need in their programs? What do they do or decide at the club, regional and national level? US Soccer needs to take notes from these dominating countries. Time for re-building ASAP!
I still believe that Soccer is STILL on the rise in the US and will continue but CHANGE has to happen NOW!
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Post by Soccerhouse on Oct 11, 2017 7:31:36 GMT -5
Anyone canned yet??
It really isn’t a new problem, the writing has been on the wall for years now.
Why would a stud 2 sport player ever choose soccer over another sport. It’s a joke.
Unfortunately I feal like the joke is on us..... as I get ready to cut another check to my club
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Post by Strikermom on Oct 11, 2017 7:38:08 GMT -5
I was totally torn for most of the game, I am from Trinidad parentage on both sides, and my dad played for national team in the 60's. But Trinidad had nothing to play for, and outshone the United States on ball movement, energy, etc. Even when Kobi was saying the team knows what they have to do and what the other results are, they had no sense of urgency. Time for a shake-up USA. Go Soca Warriors!!
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Post by infoguy on Oct 11, 2017 8:26:47 GMT -5
It's a fine mess. All points well made above.
Hard to watch my son's disappointment last night. He still loves the game. But, it's hard for me also to avoid thinking that we are all just spinning our wheels here.
I'm tired of the parent vs. club blame game ("pay to play", blah blah blah). While coaches and clubs have to put up with the AMERICAN-WIN-WIN mentality, some of us parents are innocently trying to navigate the system that allowed all of these leagues, levels, etc.
It's time for the USSF to place a tourniquet on USSDA, reduce/control the number of teams so it will actually accomplish its mission. And honestly, ODP should cherry pick from the USSDA player pool. Everything else should be intra state soccer.
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Post by Futsal Gawdess on Oct 11, 2017 9:00:16 GMT -5
In reading all the posts and comments, it is nice to hear and appreciate them all. I for one i'm very happy to see the passion for soccer come through in all your comments and opinions. In lieu of seeming like i'm regurgitating what everyone has said, i'll add these observations and/or suggestions. Other than Pulisic, the players just don't seem hungry enough to wear and play for the Shield. They know their positions are secure so they show up, feign interest and put on a lackluster performance. You are representing your country, step up or you're off the team. I say build a team around Pulisic. Maybe steal a page out of the Germans' book and bring all stakeholders together and have a real plan of action to overhaul US soccer from the bottom up. Which should include reducing the # of DA clubs, making DA free across the board and removing the politics contained within club soccer. One way to do that would be to make the Top Teams at every age group free and let the 2nd team, 3rd team, etc... fund the top team. Maybe instead of useless trophies and medals we give the winning teams, give them $$ for winning tournaments to fund their coffers. This reduces the impact of pay 2 play and forces clubs to instead choose the best. However, the best way to reduce stagnation is to ensure that parents/players know, if you don't perform you get relegated down to the 2nd team and someone who is clearly hungrier will get promoted. Again, enough of the participation trophies/medals or donating $$ to have your kid on the top team. Sometimes junior, you're just not that good enough, but keep working and earn your way back on to the top team. Remember, Jordan was once cut from his team... motivated him to work harder and become one of the all time bests. Just saying, real talk.
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Post by novicebutajunky on Oct 11, 2017 9:00:46 GMT -5
At least we can warm ourselves with the knowledge that we have an awesome age group mandate. And build-out lines. And more players on smaller fields. And more ELITE leagues than you can shake a stick at. Touche and then some!
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Post by gaprospects on Oct 11, 2017 9:02:16 GMT -5
Clearly the development pathway failed nearly an entire decade of American players. Birth-years 1990-1996 produced a grand total of 3(ish) national team-level players (Yedlin, Arriola, Acosta). That's embarrassing and license to tear the whole thing up and start over.
But then, when you look at birth-years 1999-onward, I think you can clearly see the level of the players being produced is much higher. Something flipped at some point, and progress has definitely been made. The question I can't think of a good answer for is how do you implement systematic change without undoing that progress?
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Post by Soccerhouse on Oct 11, 2017 9:12:26 GMT -5
The problem with DA honestly from a competition stand point, is when a club like Atlanta United rolls in and starts stock piling talent from all the local clubs and turns their back on some local talent. there I said it. Just using them as an example, don't take it the wrong way, what Atlanta United has done and offered this community so far is unparalleled in our lengthy soccer history. If all the kids were at their local clubs, and a reason to stay with their clubs, it would be a much better and competitive place. But can you blame a kid/parent -- absolutely not. Spend thousands a year vs spending 00000 dollars. Local clubs receive no benefits from retaining players, and offer ZERO incentives for top players to stay.
And the resources are there from a local mega club perspective. Nothing worse than seeing those threatening emails, -- if so and so doesn't pay their fees by X date, their player cards will be pulled etc. This is typically the only communication a parent/player receives from a club -- "your payment is late"
Atlanta United isn't happy because they want competitive games, well when your stealing the top talent from the entire southeast your not going to have much competition and hence why they want to find an alternative. They also don't want to be hindered by US Soccers rules, they want to train and develop players the way they want, not the way US soccer wants.
The solution however, isn't creating a new MLS only DA league. The solution is having a city like Atlanta with 4 or 5 Atlanta uniteds willing to fund and support youth soccer. That ain't going to happen in our life time though. Resources and revenue stream isn't there and on top of that, you see many European clubs even giving up hope on developing youth players when they constantly lose their top prospects at younger ages.
Again, Atlanta United has raised the bar for sure. Georgia United had the right idea, it takes multiple clubs to support something special. It was ahead of its time, and at the end of the day, no longer sustainable, its a damn shame.
I'm torn on what is the appropriate size and scope of the DA. I want it small so its just for the top top elite trully special players, but then I also know, the talent pool is deep and players develop and grow and different schedules, and you have to allow that to occur. There is no harm in taking smaller kids now and letting them mature, clubs needs to stop with the "hes to small to play DA." I've heard this so many times. Hes not fast enough etc. Bull shizate, its just because hes a foot shorter than 98% of the players playing. Most rosters are the biggest, more mature kids, in 4 years, when its a level playing fields, everyone will be wanted that late bloomer!! Our systems and staffs do not allow this.
No question their are some extremely special players at Atlanta United, But you know what, there are still a handfull of very special players not there in every freaking age group. I don't think US soccer knows this or cares to know. And there lies the problem.
I've had kids on some special teams over the years, most have now fallen apart, but the tale to me is this:
of the 3 teams in both the u9 and u10 age groups when one of my kids was young, only 1 player remains from 6 teams at the entire club..... Basically 4 to 5 years later, one freaking kid from 2 age groups and 6 academy teams, 1 player is left at the club. So much of a focus was on the top 5-10, players, everyone else was discarded. Many quit, left for other clubs and have since become quality players. There lies the problem. In the US, we seem to want to turn our backs on 98% of our player pool even at our own local club.
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Post by gaprospects on Oct 11, 2017 9:22:15 GMT -5
So the easiest way to increase the competition in DA is to reduce its size. But there are still entire regions of the country that are not served by DA clubs. You could have a Pulisic-level talent coming through the ranks in North Dakota and chances are no one would notice until he's in his 20's. Unless, of course, his family has the resources to be able to send him hundreds of miles away to play for an MLS club and live with a host family. Even free-to-play clubs are really only free-to-play for kids that have access to affordable transportation to whatever facility they play at. And only a few MLS clubs are even willing to put in that level of scouting for finding young talent (hopefully this failure changes that).
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Post by Soccerhouse on Oct 11, 2017 9:27:57 GMT -5
So the easiest way to increase the competition in DA is to reduce its size. But there are still entire regions of the country that are not served by DA clubs. You could have a Pulisic-level talent coming through the ranks in North Dakota and chances are no one would notice until he's in his 20's. Unless, of course, his family has the resources to be able to send him hundreds of miles away to play for an MLS club and live with a host family. Even free-to-play clubs are really only free-to-play for kids that have access to affordable transportation to whatever facility they play at. And only a few MLS clubs are even willing to put in that level of scouting for finding young talent (hopefully this failure changes that). No doubt, we've been saying it for years, look at the map, apparently if your live in Tenn, South Carolina, Arkansas, Miss, Louisiana, Alabama your not good enough.... Hence, whey so many have come to Atlanta. www.ussoccerda.com/2017-boys-u-15-17-19-club-map
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Post by soccerdaddy on Oct 11, 2017 9:36:50 GMT -5
Yes it’s a shame we have two players that drive from Chattanooga Tennessee to Marietta for DA.
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Post by docnfulton on Oct 11, 2017 9:39:42 GMT -5
A few thoughts in the first 24 hours after this dark night.
>> Best players heading abroad where there is lower likelihood of succeeding vs the youth club/DA/NCAA/MLS pathway. Klinsmann I think tired of fighting US Soccer over his direction for the best upcoming players to move away from college and MLS and head abroad. Think back on Dempsey; he headed to Fulham, had to fight his way onto the pitch, succeeded, moved to Spurs, had a great spell then had to fight to keep his spot. His move back to Seattle was the right move for him; however, it is a very short list of players who have followed his path. Klinsmann searched for dual nationals to fill the void. Look now at the roster, and you see Newcastle (Yedlin), Stoke City (Cameron) , Hamburg (Wood), Fulham/Championship (Ream), with Borussia Dortmund (Pusilic), Hertha Berlin (Brooks) and Borussia Moenchengladbach (Johnson)
>> I had the privilege to see presentations from the England FA 8-9 years ago on their reinvention of their development system. They benchmarked Germany, which had reinvented their own development system following the success of Spain. Look at Germany today, where their B-team has success, where veterans are pushed out by young and upcoming players. Fastforward to England, it is a cautionary tale of the challenge of how difficult reinventing a culture and processes of developing players to compete on the global scale.
>> Lack of faith in younger players; this has been a flaw for US Soccer for many, many years but the teams would succeed via workrate and grit to compensate for lesser skills and age. Last night was as fitting a case study of that, beaten by a T&T team using youth. The last 20 minutes of the first half were just dreadful, with the US sending long balls everywhere, players like Wood who should have been shining relegated to ballwatching. Soccer is a young man's game with the exception of a very few special players (see Robben yesterday).
>> CONCACAF is a hindrance to US Soccer advancement. If CONMEBOL/CONCACAF were combined for World Cup qualifying, qualification would go from near certainty to an accomplishment you have to achieve with a higher likelihood of not making it each cycle.
>> Arena eats his words about UEFA's best struggling in CONCACAF. USA, here is your peer group of 5th place teams in UEFA qualifying: Luxembourg, Latvia, Azerbaijan, Georgia, Armenia, Lithuania, Macedonia, Cyprus, Finland
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Post by soccerdaddy on Oct 11, 2017 10:05:58 GMT -5
Newcastle (Yedlin), Stoke City (Cameron) , Hamburg (Wood), Fulham/Championship (Ream), with Borussia Dortmund (Pusilic), Hertha Berlin (Brooks) and Borussia Moenchengladbach (Johnson)
Why did those clubs pick up these players? What separates them from the rest of National Team players? That’s what we need to focus on for Development. All I can see is that they have and show better ball control over their size and speed. I think there is not enough emphasis on youth developing the “touch” needed to succeed on the highest levels of soccer. So, it seems we have more players getting recognized internationally shows we have identified that ball control is one of the most important things to develop as a youth.
Im sure there are many things like PASSION, Speed, awareness and so on but the touch is clearly weak for US Soccer. The international players clearly show better control of the ball. Just my observation for US Soccer in which I love and hope we get things in order!
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Post by soccerlegacy on Oct 11, 2017 10:09:41 GMT -5
It's a fine mess. All points well made above. Hard to watch my son's disappointment last night. He still loves the game. But, it's hard for me also to avoid thinking that we are all just spinning our wheels here. I'm tired of the parent vs. club blame game ("pay to play", blah blah blah). While coaches and clubs have to put up with the AMERICAN-WIN-WIN mentality, some of us parents are innocently trying to navigate the system that allowed all of these leagues, levels, etc. It's time for the USSF to place a tourniquet on USSDA, reduce/control the number of teams so it will actually accomplish its mission. And honestly, ODP should cherry pick from the USSDA player pool. Everything else should be intra state soccer. Although I ultimately agree with the majority of your comments and give it a "thumbs up" I am also sick of hearing that "Americans" have a "win only" mentality. You CAN have both.... a DEVELOPMENT and WINNING mentality.... and, no, it shouldn't come at the cost of an arm and a leg. I'm right there with you and everyone else trying to navigate the system, I just wish youth soccer hadn't become a big business instead of what it should be... a sport that is passed on by generations because of the love of the game and a desire to see the passion for it live on.
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Post by paterfamilias on Oct 11, 2017 10:25:34 GMT -5
Promotion relegation at all levels including pros. No protected franchises.
Imo that is the biggest single thing that should be done to fix this mess.
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Post by soccerdaddy on Oct 11, 2017 10:27:45 GMT -5
Seems to work for the rest of the world 👏⚽️🌏
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Post by soccerlegacy on Oct 11, 2017 10:29:47 GMT -5
So the easiest way to increase the competition in DA is to reduce its size. But there are still entire regions of the country that are not served by DA clubs. You could have a Pulisic-level talent coming through the ranks in North Dakota and chances are no one would notice until he's in his 20's. Unless, of course, his family has the resources to be able to send him hundreds of miles away to play for an MLS club and live with a host family. Even free-to-play clubs are really only free-to-play for kids that have access to affordable transportation to whatever facility they play at. And only a few MLS clubs are even willing to put in that level of scouting for finding young talent (hopefully this failure changes that). No doubt, we've been saying it for years, look at the map, apparently if your live in Tenn, South Carolina, Arkansas, Miss, Louisiana, Alabama your not good enough.... Hence, whey so many have come to Atlanta. www.ussoccerda.com/2017-boys-u-15-17-19-club-mapYet, places like Iceland and other small countries can develop talent with a population of less than a million people. I'm not buying the argument that the USMNT is not good because we don't identify talent because of geography or because our best athletes are playing other sports. Sure it sucks for the kids that do live in those parts of the country where there isn't an MLS or DA club near by, but we have an over abundance of players and a population to pull from. On a side note: I don't have the answers, but one thing we don't have is a fully developed minor league system. The NFL, NBA, and MLB all have this.
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