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Post by docnfulton on Nov 6, 2017 9:53:52 GMT -5
One of my pet peeves on our youth soccer scene is when parents vocally call for a yellow card or red card during a game. As a club director, coach, parent of a player, parent of referees, and an AGC I wish parents from each team would come together and discuss this among themselves. Discuss how do they want to be seen as a team, how do they want to support their sons or daughters.
For the referee crew, it often gets in the way of their immediate and future decisions in the game being played. It is one of the causes of referees refusing games or dropping out entirely of working as a referee. You can definitely have the opinion that there has been a decline in the quality of the refereeing. That is subjective; however, I have alot of confidence that there has been a decline in the number of referees while there has been an increase in the number of youth soccer games.
It escalates tension and issues at a game as parents are yelling about someone's son or daughter, often in a derogatory fashion. For the players involved, it can influence them often in a negative way. For coaches, it is a distraction that hinders what they are trying to do on the field.
And there is no real threshold for this behavior, I've seen it as early as U8 Pre-Academy.
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Post by Soccerhouse on Nov 6, 2017 10:21:10 GMT -5
I'm sure I"m guilty of it at times....
but, I've seen some egregious fouls at some of the younger ages. Look I"m not for refs throwing out cards at younger kids games etc, but that's also where a coach can step in and pull a kid out for playing dirty. I have seen a ref remove a kid from the field but not actually card him, he basically just told the coach, please sit this player down until he cools down.....
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Post by paterfamilias on Nov 6, 2017 10:51:10 GMT -5
One thing to keep in mind as we watch the games, especially the younger games, is that these kids are just growing into their bodies and figuring out what their bodies can do. So what may be construed as an "egregious" foul by spectators is judged to be normal tween-age awkwardness by the referee.
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Post by docnfulton on Nov 6, 2017 12:47:34 GMT -5
Just to be clear, I'm speaking specifically about spectators screaming "Yellow Card" or "Red Card" during games, typically more at 11v11/older games although I have heard at younger ages. To pater's point, most at younger ages are collisions/awkwardness (I had an opposing coach a couple weeks ago verbalize that my 2009 Girl playing up at U10 should be yellow carded when she stumbled into one of his 2008 Girls who were beating us around 5-0 at the time...)
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Post by soccerlegacy on Nov 6, 2017 13:16:00 GMT -5
Yeah... I have yet to have seen malicious intent at the U8 thru U11 ages. Mostly awkwardness or a kid just realizing they are bigger and can use their size to gain an advantage. I have seen a yellow given out during a U10 game, and the girl was devastated... she had no intention of harming anyone. As for the parents, when I hear someone call for it in those younger ages, I just laugh, because I realize just how little they know or how over-the-top into it they really are.
Parents going after the refs could be easily remedied with the right kind of coach. For instance, one of my daughters coaches set the expectations at the beginning of the season, that we are not to have any outbursts (especially at the refs) and if we do, our child will receive less playing time. So this Saturday,we see one of the other teams' players extend the arms all the way out on one of our girls (shoving her to the ground) and our whole sideline blurts out some "Hey!" and "Come on!" comments ... with in seconds our coach reprimands everyone by simply yelling "Parents!" across the field.... immediately we shut up. He was going to handle it and we knew he was in charge, it was actually quite refreshing.
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Post by paterfamilias on Nov 6, 2017 13:30:41 GMT -5
I think UFA sent out a great email about 3 seasons ago. I looked but cannot find it.
The gist of it was basically reminding all the parents to be a decent human being while watching the game. When they are not decent humans, refs quit (especially at the younger ages - these are the pipelines you need at the various fields)
Back to the original point about yelling for red cards and yellow cards, the Center refs usually has a feel for how the game is flowing, he or she is actually on the field and generally has a much better angle than anyone of the sideline. So we should defer to the ref. Also if they miss a call, they know it. There is usually a make up (which they wont and should not admit to).
The older age parents yelling for the cards are the ones who aren't certified nor ever have been. Let them get certified and then decide if they really want to make the call from the sidelines like that.
BTW "what is your ref certification?" is my go to shut down question.
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Post by reinalocura on Nov 6, 2017 13:55:52 GMT -5
Pet Peeve - listening to a few holier than thou dads pick on a college aged ref (young college aged ref) about how bad he was. Mostly because their team wasn't getting any calls. One dad said he was a ref and you could "buy" your ref creds and that the refs don't have basic knowledge of the game. I bet they (the 3 dudes) couldn't pass the tests... or the recerts. I was biting my tongue so hard as to say anything. If things were so bad why aren't they ref-ing? They sure seemed to know everything. They also assumed the center was in High School. Dudes, the girls playing are juniors and seniors in high school. I thought the center had to be older than the players. If the players are SENIORS in high school, how can he be in High School? Game was very even. Both teams brought physicality and weren't afraid to get into some intense battles. Most were clean - some were not, and those were called. Neither team could finish. Game ended 0-0. Just don't complain if you aren't going to do something about it!!
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Post by Futsal Gawdess on Nov 6, 2017 22:27:23 GMT -5
Pet Peeve - listening to a few holier than thou dads pick on a college aged ref (young college aged ref) about how bad he was. Mostly because their team wasn't getting any calls. One dad said he was a ref and you could "buy" your ref creds and that the refs don't have basic knowledge of the game. I bet they (the 3 dudes) couldn't pass the tests... or the recerts. I was biting my tongue so hard as to say anything. If things were so bad why aren't they ref-ing? They sure seemed to know everything. They also assumed the center was in High School. Dudes, the girls playing are juniors and seniors in high school. I thought the center had to be older than the players. If the players are SENIORS in high school, how can he be in High School? Game was very even. Both teams brought physicality and weren't afraid to get into some intense battles. Most were clean - some were not, and those were called. Neither team could finish. Game ended 0-0. Just don't complain if you aren't going to do something about it!! This occurs way too much. I've actually had to lose it on some parents to check them back into reality. Side note, I also hate it when parents(usually dads) yell "great job, awesome" when a player or kid of theirs takes out a player on the opposing side. Folks, first that isn't soccer, that's more American Football. Secondly, why are you encouraging that, what if that were you're kid. Blew my mind at a U10 game. We collectively have to curb this type of behavior from the crazy parents.
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Post by spectator on Nov 6, 2017 22:38:58 GMT -5
My two cents: 1 - My kid quit refereeing three years ago because of Top Hat fathers and NASA coaches. I'm sure both clubs have fine upstanding parents and coaches, she just got the bottom of the barrel of both in two tournaments and had enough - at 14 years old she got sick of the abuse and stupidity. I cannot blame her. The only good thing that came from that is that I'm a better sideline parent and will tell my own parents to zip it if they start screaming at referees - especially young ones. It's a shame - she was so excited to start working and was looking forward to advancing in certification to possibly make refereeing her side gig through college. Ain't going to happen now - pity - there's good money in Refereeing and it would have given Mom ATM a slight relief if she could earn that kind of coin while at school.
2 - Learn the game. Whether you get certified to referee or not - learn the damn game! Every goal isn't offside; every contact isn't a foul; every time kids collide it's not card worthy. Soccer is a physical game - more so as you advance levels and leagues. Every time your little cupcake gets brushed, it's not an intentional foul - shut up! IF you can't recite the laws of the game or at least know the basics, shut up and let the referee do his or her job. Or go take the test yourself because trust me, that referee you're screaming at will not want to continue and that's one less referee in the pool!
I've seen this level of stupidity from Rec league all the way up to SRPL. Even saw players exhibiting this level of referee abuse in an adult league. For the love of all things - it's a GAME - referees are human and trust me, they are not out there with the intent to make sure your team loses and your player gets hurt.
I'd be fine with silent sidelines all the time. Sick of the stupidity.
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Post by rifle on Nov 7, 2017 6:51:46 GMT -5
My pet peeves is parents/fans screaming "offsides!" from 50 yards away, while the AR is tracking dead even with the fullback. Calls will get missed, but I'm pretty sure the AR has a better vantage point to call it.
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Post by rocko1989 on Nov 7, 2017 8:55:54 GMT -5
Full disclosure: I have been a ref for 30+ years.
One of my pet peeves is when referees do not do their job. Issue a deserved card, yet do not do the necessary paper work with the card. Referees that do not work hard in a match. Nobody truly expects perfection, however if the ref is working hard, we will all usually give them a bit of slack. Referees that do not take up for a kid referee. Don’t put a 14 year old kid right in front of parents, and then not defend that kid when parents are going off on them.
Then, I really do not like it when parents go nuts on a kid referee. So many of these parents would go crazy if a teacher or coach treated their child the way they treat a kid referee.
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Post by jetta25 on Nov 7, 2017 8:59:04 GMT -5
One of the most awesome things I saw was at a Disney Tournament a couple years ago when a player scored on a run from behind the center line. The parents were screaming at the 12 yr old AR that the player was off side (counter attack after an attempted corner kick). He turns to the parents and yells " Be Quiet!!". Not another word was heard from the parents of both teams for the rest of the match.
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Post by soccerlegacy on Nov 7, 2017 9:52:04 GMT -5
Full disclosure: I have been a ref for 30+ years. One of my pet peeves is when referees do not do their job. Issue a deserved card, yet do not do the necessary paper work with the card. Referees that do not work hard in a match. Nobody truly expects perfection, however if the ref is working hard, we will all usually give them a bit of slack. Referees that do not take up for a kid referee. Don’t put a 14 year old kid right in front of parents, and then not defend that kid when parents are going off on them. Then, I really do not like it when parents go nuts on a kid referee. So many of these parents would go crazy if a teacher or coach treated their child the way they treat a kid referee. As I inferred earlier, I am very much on the side of parents keeping their mouths shut during the game, but you do have a point about refs that aren't working hard. It drives me crazy when I see an AR that is staring off into space and not staying in line with the deepest defender. I get that it can be boring ref'ing a younger age game sometimes, but when you can't call an obvious offside or direct who's ball it is on a throw in because you aren't paying attention, your simply providing these parents the ammunition they need to go off on the refs in the first place. Which, again, is not what I or anyone else likes to see. I don't care if it's a ref crew that allows a little more contact versus one that calls everything close... as long as they are focused and attempting to do their job to best they can, I'm fine. Side note: I have told my daughter "watch for what is being called and what isn't, and play accordingly".
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