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Post by soccerworld1974 on Jul 27, 2019 14:42:33 GMT -5
Seen a number of emails and such looking to certify more referees for the upcoming season. Is there a shortage at the time as it has been pretty aggressive? What would the normal pay for a starting adult or teenager (but can move pretty well and knows the game)?
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Post by rifle on Jul 27, 2019 16:49:41 GMT -5
The formatting will probably be destroyed but this is the pay scale for my assignor, OTP north Atlanta
Game Type Age / Level Crew #1 #2 #3 #4
- ALL - ADULT OVER 30 - [ALL] 1 55.00 2 55.00 38.00 3 55.00 38.00 38.00 - ALL - ADULT OVER 50 - [ALL] 1 55.00 2 55.00 38.00 3 55.00 38.00 38.00 - ALL - ADULT OVER 58 8V8 - [ALL] 1 50.00 2 50.00 30.00 3 50.00 30.00 30.00 - ALL - ADULT WOMEN - [ALL] 1 55.00 2 55.00 38.00 3 55.00 38.00 38.00 - ALL - JR. ACADEMY - [ALL] 1 16.00 - ALL - U10 ACADEMY 7V7 - [ALL] 1 25.00 2 22.00 15.00 3 22.00 15.00 15.00 - ALL - U10 ACADEMY 9V9 - [ALL] 1 25.00 2 25.00 16.00 3 25.00 16.00 16.00 - ALL - U10 REC - [ALL] 1 20.00 - ALL - U11 ACADEMY - [ALL] 1 25.00 2 25.00 16.00 3 25.00 16.00 16.00 - ALL - U12 ACADEMY 11V11 - [ALL] 1 30.00 2 30.00 20.00 3 30.00 20.00 20.00 - ALL - U12 ACADEMY 9V9 - [ALL] 1 25.00 2 25.00 16.00 3 25.00 16.00 16.00 - ALL - U12 REC - [ALL] 1 22.00 2 22.00 15.00 3 22.00 15.00 15.00 - ALL - U13 NATIONAL LEAGUE - [ALL] 1 70.00 2 70.00 40.00 3 70.00 40.00 40.00 - ALL - U13 SELECT - [ALL] 1 34.00 2 34.00 22.00 3 34.00 22.00 22.00 - ALL - U14 NATIONAL LEAGUE - [ALL] 1 70.00 2 70.00 40.00 3 70.00 40.00 40.00 - ALL - U14 REC - [ALL] 1 28.00 2 28.00 18.00 3 28.00 18.00 18.00 - ALL - U14 SELECT - [ALL] 1 34.00 2 34.00 22.00 3 34.00 22.00 22.00 - ALL - U15 SELECT - [ALL] 1 40.00 2 40.00 25.00 3 40.00 25.00 25.00 - ALL - U16 REC - [ALL] 1 34.00 2 34.00 22.00 3 34.00 22.00 22.00 - ALL - U16 SELECT - [ALL] 1 40.00 2 40.00 25.00 3 40.00 25.00 25.00 - ALL - U17 SELECT - [ALL] 1 48.00 2 48.00 30.00 3 48.00 30.00 30.00 - ALL - U18 NATIONAL LEAGUE - [ALL] 1 80.00 2 80.00 50.00 3 80.00 50.00 50.00 - ALL - U18 SELECT - [ALL] 1 48.00 2 48.00 30.00 3 48.00 30.00 30.00 - ALL - U19 REC - [ALL] 1 42.00 2 42.00 26.00 3 42.00 26.00 26.00 - ALL - U19 SELECT - [ALL] 1 48.00 2 48.00 30.00 3 48.00 30.00 30.00 - ALL - U20 SELECT - [ALL] 1 48.00 2 48.00 30.00 3 48.00 30.00 30.00 - ALL - U8 REC - [ALL] 1 16.00 - ALL - U9 ACADEMY - [ALL] 1 25.00 2 22.00 15.00 3 22.00 15.00 15.00 Reg Seas. ADULT U23 7V7 1 40.00 Reg Seas. ADULT WOMEN 7V7 1 40.00
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Post by oraclesfriend on Jul 27, 2019 19:31:50 GMT -5
They have decided to change the recertification requirement to online only with free field sessions and mentors on a more continual basis to get everyone up to date on the changes.
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Post by rifle on Jul 27, 2019 21:57:28 GMT -5
They have decided to change the recertification requirement to online only with free field sessions and mentors on a more continual basis to get everyone up to date on the changes. Curious to see what’s up for those of us who already paid for the recert course. The messaging is on par for USSF...
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Post by soccerloafer on Jul 27, 2019 22:09:41 GMT -5
It's a cluster. They've combined 7, 8, and 9 into "Grassroots Referee" and made 5 and 6 "Regional Referee."
The whole problem with the program is an emphasis on referees moving up the chain into higher levels. 90% of referees will never ref adult amateur or semi-pro games. Under the old system, as soon as you moved from 8 to 7, the focus was how to handle adult games.
IMO, there should be a pathway focused on competitive youth games. I'm a successful professional who enjoys high level youth games for fun. I have zero interest in adult games. Instead of training folks to do a great job on youth games, the system skips from 'here's how to handle a rec game' to 'here's how to handle an adult amateur game.' How about more work on how to really do a great job in a U17 ECNL game or a U15 SCCL game.
At the lower level, the move from 8 to 7 demonstrates to assignors that a referee takes the job seriously and can handle better assignments, but isn't interested in the annual assessments to maintain a 6. Now with 7, 8, and 9 merged into 'Grassroots' how will the better referees stand out?
To me this is a dumbing down of the system and won't have a positive impact.
To get great referees, each club should have a Director of Referees in charge of recruiting, training, assigning, and mentoring referees for the club. Until that system develops, it's going to be a crap shoot with constant turnover and inconsistent training.
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Post by fan on Jul 28, 2019 8:04:10 GMT -5
One of my kids refs and primarily works for two assignors. She talks to one pretty regularly at the fields. She’s never met the other assignor in person - in 3 years! I’m sure she could arrange to meet him if she asked to but I’m surprised there’s not more time spent on coaching her on how she refs. She seems to get a lot more emails about needing refs from the assignor she never sees than the one she does see. I’m guessing the interaction (and slightly higher pay) helps to fill the games.
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Post by oraclesfriend on Jul 28, 2019 9:12:43 GMT -5
They have decided to change the recertification requirement to online only with free field sessions and mentors on a more continual basis to get everyone up to date on the changes. Curious to see what’s up for those of us who already paid for the recert course. The messaging is on par for USSF... The email we received said if you paid for the in person recert they would apply it to the online course. I have not checked to see if it is cheaper for the online. We did not sign up for either yet because we are waiting on both kids' schedules to come out. Plus the older one is on a higher level team and is supposed to keep all weekends free for scrimmages or friendlies until otherwise noted so it makes it hard to plan...(sigh).
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Post by rifle on Jul 28, 2019 14:13:51 GMT -5
One of my kids refs and primarily works for two assignors. She talks to one pretty regularly at the fields. She’s never met the other assignor in person - in 3 years! I’m sure she could arrange to meet him if she asked to but I’m surprised there’s not more time spent on coaching her on how she refs. She seems to get a lot more emails about needing refs from the assignor she never sees than the one she does see. I’m guessing the interaction (and slightly higher pay) helps to fill the games. my assignor (Johnny Jackson) is awesome. He has mentors at the fields for EVERY new referee. And many times throughout the season as well. These are seasoned referees who are engaged, taking notes and giving good feedback before, at halftime and after games. The local support could not be better.
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Post by EastATL on Jul 28, 2019 20:00:28 GMT -5
Please don’t think that this ref shortage is a new thing. We’ve had a nationwide ref shortage and the abuse that come from parents, coaches and players before, during, and after games is the biggest reason why people are afraid to get certified or recertify every year. Even at the highest level, there’s constant abuse (Ted Unkel was doxxed after an Orlando game years ago). Yes, we need more referees, but we also need people to look in the mirror and start correcting their own behavior.
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Post by 4theloveofsoccer on Jul 29, 2019 5:49:13 GMT -5
Please don’t think that this ref shortage is a new thing. We’ve had a nationwide ref shortage and the abuse that come from parents, coaches and players before, during, and after games is the biggest reason why people are afraid to get certified or recertify every year. Even at the highest level, there’s constant abuse (Ted Unkel was doxxed after an Orlando game years ago). Yes, we need more referees, but we also need people to look in the mirror and start correcting their own behavior. It is a global issue for all sports. Look at how professional players treat referees not only in soccer but in American sports with MLB, NFL, NHL, NBA. For those parents who have kids refereeing in sports I applaud you as I know it can be hard at the same time a good lesson for all.
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Post by soccerloafer on Jul 29, 2019 8:10:28 GMT -5
Please don’t think that this ref shortage is a new thing. We’ve had a nationwide ref shortage and the abuse that come from parents, coaches and players before, during, and after games is the biggest reason why people are afraid to get certified or recertify every year. Even at the highest level, there’s constant abuse (Ted Unkel was doxxed after an Orlando game years ago). Yes, we need more referees, but we also need people to look in the mirror and start correcting their own behavior. I agree with all of the above. With a better support system (recruiting, training, mentoring, club support and sideline control) the situation would improve. Referees would be better, reducing complaints. Referees would be better trained to handle abuse. Clubs would support referees on the field and deal with abusive players, fans, coaches, sending the message it has to stop. A well trained and supported employee provides benefits far beyond cost of training and support. Right now it seems that most referees are left to fend for themselves, which leads to poor quality and high attrition.
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Post by slickdaddy96 on Jul 29, 2019 8:32:43 GMT -5
They have decided to change the recertification requirement to online only with free field sessions and mentors on a more continual basis to get everyone up to date on the changes. When did this change. Just a week or two ago this was not the case. My son isn't due to recert till December, but if it is now Online only, I may force him to recert online just so it forces him to read more into the rule changes than he was doing on his own especially if it recerts him through 2020.
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Post by oraclesfriend on Jul 29, 2019 8:43:25 GMT -5
They have decided to change the recertification requirement to online only with free field sessions and mentors on a more continual basis to get everyone up to date on the changes. When did this change. Just a week or two ago this was not the case. My son isn't due to recert till December, but if it is now Online only, I may force him to recert online just so it forces him to read more into the rule changes than he was doing on his own especially if it recerts him through 2020. I got the email from my daughter's ref assignor in the last few days. She isn't due to recert until February, but they have said they won't assign games to those not up to date on the new rules. Originally they were saying in person class (which was going to be tough for us with the season just starting and school, etc), but the new email said online only and they would use mentors or evening field sessions to help get them up to speed. Supposedly it would take her through until the end of 2020.
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Post by cantgetright on Jul 29, 2019 12:31:20 GMT -5
Referee courses should be free. Kits should be free. IF someone decides to ref, they have to put out 300+ for all of it. Then 2 years later, they make a uniform change. Plus they have to put up with all of the BS. Not worth it.
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Post by slickdaddy96 on Jul 29, 2019 13:03:28 GMT -5
Referee courses should be free. Kits should be free. IF someone decides to ref, they have to put out 300+ for all of it. Then 2 years later, they make a uniform change. Plus they have to put up with all of the BS. Not worth it. I do think that the initial referee course should be cheaper and the recerts free to very cheap. Uniforms and gear are always going to be hard to get free unless people get donations to buy them. You are correct though. My son put up $90 for the initial course, and probably $120-150 on two uniform tops, and the rest of the kit (shorts, socks, whistle, bag, flags, etc....) He made it back the first year he refereed, but he has to remember to set aside some of his money for renewal. Now that it might be online only and hopefully cheaper, that will help tremendously.
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Post by mistergrinch on Jul 29, 2019 16:51:02 GMT -5
Referee courses should be free. Kits should be free. IF someone decides to ref, they have to put out 300+ for all of it. Then 2 years later, they make a uniform change. Plus they have to put up with all of the BS. Not worth it. I do think that the initial referee course should be cheaper and the recerts free to very cheap. Uniforms and gear are always going to be hard to get free unless people get donations to buy them. You are correct though. My son put up $90 for the initial course, and probably $120-150 on two uniform tops, and the rest of the kit (shorts, socks, whistle, bag, flags, etc....) He made it back the first year he refereed, but he has to remember to set aside some of his money for renewal. Now that it might be online only and hopefully cheaper, that will help tremendously. yeah, mine got the cheap kit.. was like $70 with 2 shirts. When you add the course - I don't think she made it back this year..
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Post by EastATL on Jul 30, 2019 1:40:04 GMT -5
I do think that the initial referee course should be cheaper and the recerts free to very cheap. Uniforms and gear are always going to be hard to get free unless people get donations to buy them. You are correct though. My son put up $90 for the initial course, and probably $120-150 on two uniform tops, and the rest of the kit (shorts, socks, whistle, bag, flags, etc....) He made it back the first year he refereed, but he has to remember to set aside some of his money for renewal. Now that it might be online only and hopefully cheaper, that will help tremendously. yeah, mine got the cheap kit.. was like $70 with 2 shirts. When you add the course - I don't think she made it back this year.. Then get her out there and working so she can make a profit from it. I’ve been refereeing for 12 years now, first certified August 2007. There hasn’t been one year that I didn’t make back my money, despite buying the uniforms. The class was $65 back then, so yes it was cheaper. But can you tell me one thing that hasn’t increased in price over the last 12 years? Making (re)certification free loses the federation and all of the state federations tons of money that is used to develop those same referees. There’s an advanced recertification coming up this weekend for state (regional) referees with MLS referees coming in from around the nation to teach. That isn’t cheap. The assessments that the referees need to progress at a certain level aren’t cheap. The DA showcases and other events put on by both the federation and the state delegations need funds.
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Post by EastATL on Jul 30, 2019 1:42:31 GMT -5
My class last year was $265, and I just paid $125 to recertify for next year. I will get my $125 back next weekend doing a tournament.
There are plenty of opportunities out there for referees to make money.
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Post by mistergrinch on Jul 30, 2019 8:20:06 GMT -5
yeah, mine got the cheap kit.. was like $70 with 2 shirts. When you add the course - I don't think she made it back this year.. Then get her out there and working so she can make a profit from it. I’ve been refereeing for 12 years now, first certified August 2007. There hasn’t been one year that I didn’t make back my money, despite buying the uniforms. The class was $65 back then, so yes it was cheaper. But can you tell me one thing that hasn’t increased in price over the last 12 years? Making (re)certification free loses the federation and all of the state federations tons of money that is used to develop those same referees. There’s an advanced recertification coming up this weekend for state (regional) referees with MLS referees coming in from around the nation to teach. That isn’t cheap. The assessments that the referees need to progress at a certain level aren’t cheap. The DA showcases and other events put on by both the federation and the state delegations need funds. Have to fit it in around her actually playing. She tries to ref on her weekends where she isn't playing/traveling. Turns out that's not as easy as we thought.
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Post by guerillaman on Jul 30, 2019 8:26:26 GMT -5
the ref training should be simplified for reffing u9/u10s and younger age rec games, then the shortage wouldn't be an issue --
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Post by slickdaddy96 on Jul 30, 2019 8:42:48 GMT -5
the ref training should be simplified for reffing u9/u10s and younger age rec games, then the shortage wouldn't be an issue -- I disagree. It would be a waste of time on a training class just for those two young age groups. I could see them limiting it to U12 Rec/Academy and below only. Then make them take another class to do Select or Rec U13 and up. Although my son has centered U14 rec games and he is only 13. It was in a pinch, but he has done it. Most of the time he just AR higher games and centers U12 and below games in either rec or academy.
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Post by forsythsd on Jul 30, 2019 8:55:09 GMT -5
Referee courses should be free. Kits should be free. IF someone decides to ref, they have to put out 300+ for all of it. Then 2 years later, they make a uniform change. Plus they have to put up with all of the BS. Not worth it. Yeah, both my kids dropped out at the last uniform change. They had multiple shirts in different colors plus two pairs of shorts. New uniforms plus the cost of recertification killed it. My eldest switched to cooking fries and cleaning a fast food resturant's bathroom. Sadly he found that to be a better job, although part of it was the social aspect. Still, free kits are problematic. Some kids would grab the clothes and never use them. Instead, perhaps pay a $50 bonus after a new ref's 10th game or somesuch. That would cover their starter kit. Something similar could be done to cover the cost of recertification.
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Post by ga3v3 on Jul 30, 2019 10:27:33 GMT -5
My oldest stopped reffing as well. With his club games he was barely able to make a profit after a season and I suggested he stop as opposed to spending more to be recertified. It’s better for him to cut grass and do other odd jobs by far. Two other kids of mine won’t be getting certified in the first place. Too much trouble for the benefit.
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Post by slickdaddy96 on Jul 30, 2019 10:47:23 GMT -5
The key is to make sure you do at least 1-2 tournaments on both ends of each season (Fall, Spring). Generally there are some weekends that don't correspond to regular season or tournament weekends for referees that are on Select teams. That is where you make the money. The problem is getting a foothold into the tournaments as a young referee. I find a lot of the assignors shy away from younger referees when they have an abundance available and the younger ones never get a chance to referee a tournament very often.
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Post by rifle on Aug 3, 2019 11:50:46 GMT -5
New referee online class - $20
Existing ref (surprise mid-cycle) recertification classroom and field session - $90. Oops. That one is CANCELED.
Existing ref (surprise mid-cycle) recertification online class - $90
Truth is stranger than fiction
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Post by soccerworld1974 on Aug 13, 2019 8:27:50 GMT -5
What if you have played at a pretty high level most of your life? Do you have to start at the bottom from a ref perspective or can you skip a level or two?
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Post by soccerloafer on Aug 13, 2019 15:11:08 GMT -5
What if you have played at a pretty high level most of your life? Do you have to start at the bottom from a ref perspective or can you skip a level or two? Bottom, but you can move up quickly. Just like coaching v. playing, reffing v. playing is different. You'll have a tendency to call the game similar to how you played, which doesn't always work well for lower skill level games. What is a natural advantage / play on to you is a brutal foul at U14 rec... Spend some time learning the mechanics etc, then you can move up quickly with your knowledge of the game.
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