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Post by atv on Aug 8, 2019 12:26:39 GMT -5
US Soccer enlists lobbying firms to argue women's team isn't underpaid (CNN)
The US Soccer Federation has enlisted two lobbying firms to push back against claims of pay disparity between the women's national team and the men's team.
The firms, FBB Federal Relations and Vann Ness Feldman, began representing US Soccer after two Democratic senators introduced legislation last month that would require equal pay for men and women's national teams. US Soccer plans to use the firms, whose hiring was first reported by Politico, to convince lawmakers that claims of pay disparity are inaccurate.
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Post by Futsal Gawdess on Aug 8, 2019 12:38:30 GMT -5
Let me get this straight. So instead of trying to work out an amicable agreement between both sides, USSF in their infinite wisdom chooses instead to up the ante by hiring a couple of highly paid outside firms to disprove what the other side is saying. Isn't that what their legal representation is supposed to do? Okay, we'll keep watching how this goes...😡😡
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Post by soccerloafer on Aug 8, 2019 12:59:33 GMT -5
Let me get this straight. So instead of trying to work out an amicable agreement between both sides, USSF in their infinite wisdom chooses instead to up the ante by hiring a couple of highly paid outside firms to disprove what the other side is saying. Isn't that what their legal representation is supposed to do? Okay, we'll keep watching how this goes...😡😡 Not going to weigh in on the pay debate itself. Legal is different than messaging. In a public battle, spin and messaging is important. If one side is publicizing potentially misleading information, it is incumbent on the other side to fight back equally... In this case, hiring PR firm(s) is not unusual.
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Post by atlfutboldad on Aug 8, 2019 13:00:25 GMT -5
Heels dug in, not providing transparency. I suspect they are doing this to prevent US Government from looking into actual finances. There could be a bigger story here than pay disparity.
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Post by jash on Aug 8, 2019 13:17:54 GMT -5
I'm not a big fan of USSF but it feels to me like most of this situation is the women's team (player association?) using the highly sympathetic court of public opinion to renegotiate their deal. They are using current hot button topics, their undeniable success, and FIFA's significantly lower bonus structure to try to get a better deal for themselves. Good for them, as far as that goes -- get what you can as long as you're being honest. Of course they may actually be killing the golden goose for short term gains.
But USSF has a stake too, and it seems like they ARE being relatively transparent. I doubt they have the right to publish everyone's specific salary and bonuses, and that's the only logical next step beyond the massive data dump they did recently about pay. Of course they're going to spin it their way, but the only pushback I saw from the women's PA was, I felt, pretty disingenuous. If the PA has other specific valid issues with the numbers USSF published being incorrect, they should raise those. Otherwise, there's no reason for me to disbelieve the USSF side here.
It's also possible I missed more criticism than the first "it is unfair to include the money USSF pays for these women's pro career salaries", which in my mind is not valid.
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Post by atlfutboldad on Aug 8, 2019 13:41:34 GMT -5
The only problem about their data dump is that it wasn't complete. It didn't discuss TV money. If anything I think it would strengthen the men's popularity standpoint, but don't know for sure.
USSF is non-profit, therefore all their finances should be available to be laid on the table.
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Post by atv on Aug 8, 2019 16:15:03 GMT -5
Heels dug in, not providing transparency. I suspect they are doing this to prevent US Government from looking into actual finances. There could be a bigger story here than pay disparity. Hah! Yeah, didn’t think of that. LOL!
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Post by oraclesfriend on Aug 8, 2019 18:25:38 GMT -5
I'm not a big fan of USSF but it feels to me like most of this situation is the women's team (player association?) using the highly sympathetic court of public opinion to renegotiate their deal. They are using current hot button topics, their undeniable success, and FIFA's significantly lower bonus structure to try to get a better deal for themselves. Good for them, as far as that goes -- get what you can as long as you're being honest. Of course they may actually be killing the golden goose for short term gains. But USSF has a stake too, and it seems like they ARE being relatively transparent. I doubt they have the right to publish everyone's specific salary and bonuses, and that's the only logical next step beyond the massive data dump they did recently about pay. Of course they're going to spin it their way, but the only pushback I saw from the women's PA was, I felt, pretty disingenuous. If the PA has other specific valid issues with the numbers USSF published being incorrect, they should raise those. Otherwise, there's no reason for me to disbelieve the USSF side here. It's also possible I missed more criticism than the first "it is unfair to include the money USSF pays for these women's pro career salaries", which in my mind is not valid. The pro salary argument is valid in part because the players that get those salaries are not always the same players that actually play the matches for the USWNT. Also the support for the USWNT players in NWSL is also self-serving for the USSF. If you are trying to grow soccer in the US (for either or both genders) then you need to have a league for players to play in. Without the USSF (and Mexico and Canadian soccer federations which also support their players in NWSL) support there would not BE and NWSL and you can bet that all of the USWNT players would be in Europe playing. So to imply that the salary support is solely for the women's players' benefit is crap. The benefit package that they give the players is generous. I will give them points for that. I do wonder, though, what the mens' pro teams benefits are? Obviously not paid maternity leave, but what about health plans, etc? If the men DO receive these benefits from their club then I say again this is USSF support of players in the NWSL because the NWSL isn't doing it. They would be doing this to keep these players in the States so again self-serving their supposed mission to grow soccer. Part of the issue that has been brought up by the women that USSF seems to ignore is the fact that the US women are not even in the "equal work" category because they actually win. It really doesn't matter why (title IX detractors stay out) because they have great success when the men do not. The recent former USMNT player that claimed it is so much harder to win a men's world cup still has no leg to stand on with that comment. The women have won 4! The men haven't gotten past the round of 16 in my lifetime! Plus if it was so easy, why did the women NOT win it from 1999 to 2015?!? Even with our "superior advantages", we had a 16 year drought. Finally the thing that stands out the most for me is that the Mens National Team player union and the players themselves have supported the women...both after the release of the "pay information" and this hiring of lobbyists. They claim the pay info is total BS. Women's soccer needs the federation's support to grow. They need publicity. They need money. They need more teams (since those of us in Atlanta...a girls youth soccer hotbed have to drive 6+ hours to watch a NWSL game). Other countries need support even more from their federations. Support the teams and they get better. A greater number of better opponents creates better competition for the US and forces them to improve more as well. Better quality play= more public interest. And so on... So US soccer needs to just get it done! Do this for the women! Fix the relationship with your DA clubs that you just shafted like idiots! Listen to your players, parents and coaches!
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Post by atv on Aug 9, 2019 11:48:50 GMT -5
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Post by Soccerhouse on Aug 9, 2019 12:26:38 GMT -5
US soccer really needs a new PR firm..... they are failing miserably here. They should hire the lady from entourage.
From youth soccer to the national first teams.
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Post by atlfutboldad on Aug 9, 2019 13:36:49 GMT -5
The pro salary argument is valid in part because the players that get those salaries are not always the same players that actually play the matches for the USWNT. Also the support for the USWNT players in NWSL is also self-serving for the USSF. If you are trying to grow soccer in the US (for either or both genders) then you need to have a league for players to play in. Without the USSF (and Mexico and Canadian soccer federations which also support their players in NWSL) support there would not BE and NWSL and you can bet that all of the USWNT players would be in Europe playing. So to imply that the salary support is solely for the women's players' benefit is crap. The benefit package that they give the players is generous. I will give them points for that. I do wonder, though, what the mens' pro teams benefits are? Obviously not paid maternity leave, but what about health plans, etc? If the men DO receive these benefits from their club then I say again this is USSF support of players in the NWSL because the NWSL isn't doing it. They would be doing this to keep these players in the States so again self-serving their supposed mission to grow soccer. Part of the issue that has been brought up by the women that USSF seems to ignore is the fact that the US women are not even in the "equal work" category because they actually win. It really doesn't matter why (title IX detractors stay out) because they have great success when the men do not. The recent former USMNT player that claimed it is so much harder to win a men's world cup still has no leg to stand on with that comment. The women have won 4! The men haven't gotten past the round of 16 in my lifetime! Plus if it was so easy, why did the women NOT win it from 1999 to 2015?!? Even with our "superior advantages", we had a 16 year drought. Finally the thing that stands out the most for me is that the Mens National Team player union and the players themselves have supported the women...both after the release of the "pay information" and this hiring of lobbyists. They claim the pay info is total BS. Women's soccer needs the federation's support to grow. They need publicity. They need money. They need more teams (since those of us in Atlanta...a girls youth soccer hotbed have to drive 6+ hours to watch a NWSL game). Other countries need support even more from their federations. Support the teams and they get better. A greater number of better opponents creates better competition for the US and forces them to improve more as well. Better quality play= more public interest. And so on... So US soccer needs to just get it done! Do this for the women! Fix the relationship with your DA clubs that you just shafted like idiots! Listen to your players, parents and coaches!
Lets be honest here, the USSF opinion on the matter for decades was that they don't need or care or want to spend the money on women's soccer, they didn't see profit in it and considered it not viable. I think that changed in 2015, but its also a slow process. Even the men's side it was a slow process and the USMNT didn't get a ton of money or attention (other than WC or olympics years) honestly for the better part of a century. So its been a cultural change and I think many on the USWNT side are arguing for faster "build it and they will come" sort of support. Potential new owners need to see prospectus that includes siginificant ROI, because the world is capitalist, people want to MAKE MONEY...which in reality is the only reason to want to own a team.
Speaking of the "build it and they will come" attitude, I read a rather distressing opinion piece related to this where the author was expressing dissatisfaction for NWSL playing in "lowly" college stadiums...when your sport is averaging an average of 6K butts in seats per game, is it financially viable to build a multi-million-dollar stadium just for them? Its cart before the horse IMO. The women win the world cup so they need to be playing in their own stadiums? In some cities this could be a possibility (Portland most likely). MLS has been slowly growing, but it wasn't always as well attended as it is now (or even in the rest of the country). AU is an exception, not the rule. We double the attendance of every club but ONE and triple about half the league. soccerstadiumdigest.com/2018-mls-attendance/Your 3rd paragraph I disagree with a lot. I believe it is very important to understand "why" the US women win. The US basically INVENTED high-level women's soccer with the advent of Title IX (not dogging it, just expressing causality). Without the college scholarships from US Universities, many of the top player's career's would have stalled out after HS ages. Take away title IX and college scholarship requirements on universities and I think US Women's soccer would largely return to the dark ages. I remember back in my days playing club soccer in HS, there were no girls teams in the state and occasionally you would play against a girl on an opponent's team. There weren't girls HS teams (boys soccer was added to HS sports in 1992 in my state). We have very literally come SO FAR since then.
Comparing US men's and women's soccer at this point is comparing apples to oranges. US women's soccer is much like US men's lacrosse. In a sport where you're the only one playing for the longest time, you should be the best at it for a long time to come... Should the US men's lacrosse team be paid more than the USMNT because they have won most of the world titles? Heck no, money in > money out.
Women's soccer was essentially created and fostered here in the US, like American football, basketball and baseball, which is why the US is so far above the rest of the world at these sports. While these sports were growing from the early 1900s-2000, little emphasis was placed on soccer whereas through the rest of the world it has long been sport #1, which also explains why we are behind about 30 countries in the world in men's soccer. And the gap is even accelerating with the super-duper stars like Messi, CR7 and Neymar (who are the top 3 paid athletes in the world). The top European club salary totals are more than 8x (OR MORE) what they are here. We don't have single player in MLS making double-digit millions, and the top paid player is Zlatan.
www.americansocceranalysis.com/home/2019/4/22/cba-talk-comparing-mls-player-salaries-to-leagues-around-the-worldIMO any change in contracts need to filter down to the title IX ranks where international players have been increasingly take the scholarships available to US players. The women's game is inextricably linked to college soccer and will be as long as Title IX exists. If you're allowing more players to slip through the cracks due to lack of scholarships, the game will start slipping also. The funny thing to me is that the USWNT players want more money for themselves, not the game. They're not clamoring for the USSF to put money into NWSL expansion, quite the opposite, they're in it for themselves. I think people expect multi-million-dollar salaries for their "stars" who won the world cup. Money out must be less than money in. IMO the USSF needs to let NWSL sink or swim and just pay the women exactly like they do the men (no benefits, no NWSL pay, etc), there's a reason the women's pay is different than the men, and the women negotiated it that way. Can't have your cake and eat it also. USSF doesn't NEED NWSL or any womens pro league, it NEEDS title IX and college soccer, that ALONE is incentive for girls to keep playing high-level competitive soccer. The players could just as easily go to Europe and play after college and return for NTC...but they wouldn't get paid any more than they are now likely.
All that said, the USSF finances need to be laid bare, as a non-profit this should be simple and people need to be able to follow the $. It'll likely take congress to make it happen. I'm betting there's some fishy stuff with the US/Mexico/Canada WC bid, but that's the game FIFA and the IOC play.
I'm sure the WNT should be paid more than they are, but whether they should be paid as much as the men would depend on the men taking a pay cut to provide equitable pay (take from Peter to pay Paula). Because I can guarantee they don't have the same or even roughly equal $$ coming in. So its entirely up to the men to vote for a pay cut to pay the women the same.
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Post by atlfutboldad on Aug 9, 2019 13:52:31 GMT -5
Here you go...the argument regarding inequality of outcome. Behold the value of the men's teams in the Russia WC: www.statista.com/statistics/865737/value-of-the-national-teams-at-the-2018-world-cup/You will see all the teams that made the quarters/semis in the top 20. The US value by player, looks under 150M, and Pulisic GREATLY skews the total (hell, even McKennie GREATLY skews the total at 1/3 Pulisic's value): www.transfermarkt.us/vereinigte-staaten/startseite/verein/3505WITHOUT these 2 players we're probably somewhere 55M. As it is we're near 20th in the world in total value. Which makes sense because we're ranked 24th in the world. Compare the USWNT to every other women's national team in a similar fashion, and I bet we're #1, because the US system fostered it. Its easier to win the WWC with the best players in the world, which the USMNT isn't even close to having. I'd argue they should be good enough to make the WC, but IMO they'll never win it until we're in the top 10 in total value. The same US system that creates the best women in the world isn't even close to producing the best men, that should tell you a lot.
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Post by atv on Aug 14, 2019 6:55:37 GMT -5
A little more informative (Source: Yahoo news)
Why is U.S. Soccer hiring lobbyists?
The Senate threw a wrench into the works when Joe Manchin (D-West Virginia) introduced a bill tying the 2026 World Cup bid to federal funding.
The United States, Mexico and Canada were awarded a joint bid for the men’s tournament. Manchin is using that to his advantage. The bill would cut off federal money for hosting unless the federation “agrees to provide equitable pay.”
That’s what pushed a national team’s campaign fully into the realm of politics and elicited a call for lobbyists from the federation. Rapinoe believes it’s a primary concern and insists they’re the ones “threatening” their own bid, per The Athletic.
“I don’t know why they would need to hire a lobbyist if they aren’t discriminating, or if we’re equally paid, because then the legislation doesn’t land on them at all,” she said. “It just doesn’t matter, because then they’ll just get their funding. It’s wild.”
Even if the bill doesn’t go through, there’s an admittedly small chance FIFA pulls the bid since it doesn’t allow political interference. Global soccer’s governing body has suspended countries for it — though it has notably given rich and power-hungry China a pass.
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