Post by gaprospects on Nov 14, 2017 15:32:18 GMT -5
This is the next step in their youth development plan. They're going to be signing kids from their academy to professional contracts at a much higher rate now that they have two teams. Should also mean more younger kids will be promoted through their system faster.
AU is really the only DA worth playing for. As the other poster stated many players selected by AU came from non DA teams. It shows other programs are putting out high level players.
As the "other poster," I disagree with this take. If a goal of your player is to earn a scholarship to a D1 school, playing DA at a club like Concorde can absolutely provide that. Concorde DA puts several players into good D1 programs every year.
Post by gaprospects on Nov 7, 2017 13:14:17 GMT -5
Theoretically as Atlanta United continues to bring in kids from all over the place, more of the best players from metro Atlanta would naturally end up at Concorde and UFA. A rising tide floats all boats.
That said, most of the local kids that AU picked up last summer for their older teams came from clubs like KSA, GSA, and Inter Atlanta. I think they took a '99, an '00 and two '03s from Concorde, that's it. To me, it proves two things: 1) a lot of the best players in the state don't play DA until AU notices them (if they ever do), and 2) the talent in metro-Atlanta runs very deep.
Post by gaprospects on Oct 25, 2017 20:15:52 GMT -5
Somewhat quietly, SSA's 04 and 05 DA teams have been on fire this season. The 05's are unbeaten through their first 9 matches and the 04's have just one loss. Any insight as to what's been going on over there? I know they were about the only local club to split their U12's last season pretty much evenly between 04's and 05's (and one 06, who's now at AU).
Post by gaprospects on Oct 18, 2017 20:47:59 GMT -5
Lower division soccer in this country struggles for many reasons other than not being able to climb the ladder. Do you really think the NASL would improve by having its most well-functioning teams leave the league and replacing them with the worst-functioning teams from MLS? Lack of pro/rel isn't what causing a league like NPSL to schedule their championship game after one team's players have all returned to their college teams, or any of the other bone-headed decisions that these leagues have made over the years.
And on training compensation/solidarity payments, the lack of payouts to independent clubs is due to federal child labor laws. It's not a USSF/MLS conspiracy. And realistically, how many significant transfer fees have been payed out for American players over the years? How many independent clubs are really even capable of producing a player on that level? Most of the teams that would come to mind are massive organizations with thousands of paying families involved, do you really think that a small windfall percentage from that transfer would do anything to alleviate the pay-to-play at those clubs?
I'd love to see pro/rel in the United States. I agree that not having it inhibits competition, promotes complacency among owners at the top of the pyramid, and has a direct negative impact on how well we develop young players in this country. But it's not going to magically solve all of our problems, and it's certainly going to create new ones (ensuring survival of relegated teams is extremely important to a successful pro/rel structure, currently no one has a realistic plan for this).
Think about NPSL and PDL for a second. Both are amateur leagues that operate regionally on 3-ish month schedules. Most teams take buses to away games and operate on 5, maybe 6-figure budgets. There are teams in both leagues that have ambitions of becoming professional clubs and have reasonable plans for how to make that happen. But if you just promoted a team from one of these leagues into a fully professional league with a 6-7 month season and a national schedule? They'd be lucky to make it through the full year without defaulting just due to the travel cost alone. This isn't England where the longest away trip is less than 400 miles.
In order to make pro/rel work without destroying tons of clubs in the system, serious structural overhaul would need to happen to the US Soccer pyramid. Way more professional leagues with more professional-level players that operate on a regional level (remember, there's already worries about diluting talent due to MLS/USL expansion, this would be a much larger scale). And that's before you address anything to do with MLS's structural irregularities that would make pro/rel more difficult to implement. You aren't just going to be able to tear down a massive existing structure like this (which is, by the way, the most successful this country has ever built), the same way you aren't going to just end a billion-dollar-annual business like pay-to-play.
There are lots of significant, feasible changes that people can work to implement though, so I'd rather see people work to do so rather than endlessly drone on about things that are impractical.
Post by gaprospects on Oct 11, 2017 9:22:15 GMT -5
So the easiest way to increase the competition in DA is to reduce its size. But there are still entire regions of the country that are not served by DA clubs. You could have a Pulisic-level talent coming through the ranks in North Dakota and chances are no one would notice until he's in his 20's. Unless, of course, his family has the resources to be able to send him hundreds of miles away to play for an MLS club and live with a host family. Even free-to-play clubs are really only free-to-play for kids that have access to affordable transportation to whatever facility they play at. And only a few MLS clubs are even willing to put in that level of scouting for finding young talent (hopefully this failure changes that).
Post by gaprospects on Oct 11, 2017 9:02:16 GMT -5
Clearly the development pathway failed nearly an entire decade of American players. Birth-years 1990-1996 produced a grand total of 3(ish) national team-level players (Yedlin, Arriola, Acosta). That's embarrassing and license to tear the whole thing up and start over.
But then, when you look at birth-years 1999-onward, I think you can clearly see the level of the players being produced is much higher. Something flipped at some point, and progress has definitely been made. The question I can't think of a good answer for is how do you implement systematic change without undoing that progress?
Post by gaprospects on Sept 26, 2017 16:23:07 GMT -5
To bring some thoughts/insight into various points that have come up in this discussion:
- Seven clubs each in 3 separate age groups is too many and I think that you're seeing that play out in real time. It is true that each club kind of serves a different part of the metro area, but there's a lot of overlap, and CF and UFA are so widespread that they can get players from a wider player pool than an AFC or Lanier.
- That being said, would Inter Atlanta, GSA, AFU, etc. put up a bigger challenge to Atlanta United than their current opponents? Probably not. It's tough to expect any metro club to truly challenge them at this point. It would probably be better for the AFCs and Laniers of the world to play those teams than to get smacked by AU, though.
- MLS clubs don't have all the top talent or even the top teams, and that extends all the way up the age group ladder, not just in the younger kids. Look at some other areas of the country. DC United is maybe the 3rd best DA club in the DMV area. Crossfire consistently challenges and beats the Sounders. It can be done, but it's harder when there's so many clubs in one area like it is in GA. They all kind of dilute each other while the big fish takes whomever they want off the top. And I'm not just talking DA clubs, either. Three of AU U19's starters were playing for either KSA or Inter Atlanta last year.
Post by gaprospects on Sept 11, 2017 0:54:13 GMT -5
AU 03's lost to Carolina Rapids 2-0, Concorde beat them 6-0. But Concorde lost 4-1 to CSA and AU beat them 2-1. Really can't draw any correlation from any of that.
And for what it's worth, I haven't seen any team that's using 02's in the 03 bracket in any game reports. Unless you're straight up accusing teams of falsifying birth certificates (which is befitting of the other forum), I would hope you could cite a specific example of this happening before you get riled up over it.
I'd love to see pro/rel in the United States from a fan perspective. But the size of our country just works against it and MLS owners will NEVER go for it. Not in a million years.
In my opinion, more important than pro/rel is getting college soccer to play by FIFA rules to bring it in line with the rest of the world. I also think colleges should switch to a 10-month season instead of cramming all their games in the fall.
10 month season is a must. I don't mind the substitution rules in the NCAA because it lets more kids get game opportunities and that's not a bad thing for 18-22 year olds. The clock counting down is a wash for me, if anything it's more accurate than arbitrarily adding a number of minutes to the end of the half.
Post by gaprospects on Jul 25, 2017 9:20:08 GMT -5
It sounds great on paper. But there's no way MLS was going to sign a 10-year rights deal that takes effect in 2023. There's a chance they can get more than $4 bn six years from now, and there's no guarantee Silva would still have the money then.
It's at least a real start to these discussions (beyond angry twitter accounts). Silva knew this bid would never be accepted and probably put it out there just for the publicity. If MLS has more pressure on it now to do something about pro/rel, maybe they actually will when the time comes.
Look I don't want to be negative about a bunch of 15 to 18 year olds, but when your signed and going to sign home grown contracts for real cash - it's fair.
None of the home growns played very well today. Was shocked that even carelton was off his game, he's usually dominant with every touch. I didnt think any of them stood out over the players on their own and the opposing team. Bello showed some signs of flash and unreal pace getting forward but didn't seem committed to defense. Patrick's goal obviously was nice(which I did not see). I expected dominance from all these guys.
The 18s did dominate possession, but felt LA missed a few easy chances. I was surprised at how much coaching TA was doing all game.
Just because the team has a couple of kids on professional deals doesn't make that team head and shoulders above everyone else. Even FC Dallas started 3 homegrown players yesterday and lost to Beachside. At the playoffs, every team is good and has earned their place there, and no team is carried by one or two players.
Throughout the year, while Patrick and Lagos have been key players for AU's 18's, they haven't been the only guys. The 18's are a well-rounded team, so expecting dominance from the couple of guys who got signed doesn't give enough credit to the other guys on the team. Same with the 16's.
Particular passages that stand out, picked out to contrast those picked out above:
"But what I want you to see about Pulisic, and in truth about all supposedly elite young players, is that the club complex is merely a repository for the talent, a place to stash it and watch it grow as opposed to the creator of the seed itself. We’ve grown so enamored with the idea that coaches and systems Make Players that we’ve largely forgotten that the best ones are knitted together at birth and largely nurtured in the most substantive ways at home and in the street." ...
"As Exhibit A, I present a video of Pulisic embarrassing children as a microscopic 9-year-old. This is not normal, nor was it coached into him by any holistic club system. It was his father, a former player himself, working with him for hours and hours on end. It was Pulisic working in unstructured environments at 6, 7, 8 years old, hitting balls alone against backboards and house siding and playing 3v3 with friends with coke cans and sweatshirts as goalposts."
I'll leave you to click on the article to see the mentioned video, and it's worth clicking on it since he goes into a lot more than what's mentioned here. It's always interesting to see player development debated in a public arena like this, especially when non-traditional soccer outlets like Yahoo are involved (I mean, you would expect to find something like this on TopDrawerSoccer). I do agree with Parchman that the DA and MLS are better served figuring out how to pump out players like Kellyn Acosta as opposed to trying to replicate the same circumstances that helped create Pulisic.
Post by gaprospects on Jun 9, 2017 12:48:01 GMT -5
In the long-term, DA clubs and MLS clubs will be judged on the players who graduate from their systems. Unless your team is making a very deep playoff run like Georgia United did in 2015, the team success isn't going to be remembered as much. Of course, that GA United team had some incredible individual players as well.
For this year's GA United 02's, there was never going to be a scenario in which that team could stay together. It's disappointing, but it's expected. Even in the past at GA United, the older birth-year dominated the rosters, which led to pretty high turnover year-to-year. At Concorde it's generally even higher. And that's before you even take into account new players coming from other clubs.
USL is a professional league below MLS in the pyramid (if you can call it a pyramid). It is made up of 30 teams, 12 of which are the reserve teams of MLS clubs. The expectation is that Atlanta United intends to create a reserve team in this league, most likely starting next season.
MLS teams generally have four types of players on these USL reserve rosters: 1) First team players who aren't getting playing time in MLS and need minutes 2) Regular professional players, usually recent college graduates or guys who have been playing in the lower levels in the US for some time 3) Their own academy products who are signed to professional contracts, but don't have room for in the first team (yet) 4) Current academy players who are on "academy contracts," which allow the player to get professional experience without ending their NCAA eligibility
The expectation is that AU will be taking their most promising kids from their U17 and U19 teams and signing them to either pro deals or academy deals with this USL team. This will trickle down through the academy, leaving more opportunities for U17 players to play up with the 19's, and in turn, chances for NL 02's to play with the U17's.
I would expect a handful of 02's to go straight into the U17 DA team, since right now they don't have nearly enough 01's to fill a whole roster. An 02 team gives AU a pool of potential DP's for the U17's, plus it gives them more room to take in players from teams like the GAU 02's.
With USL coming soon, AU is going to start promoting their best players through their system much more quickly, so I'd expect the players rostered on this new National League team will get plenty of chances to play with the DA team.
Post by gaprospects on Jun 4, 2017 16:35:36 GMT -5
So, the clubs who won state championships on the boys side:
U13: MAYS U14: CFA Dalton U15: Smyrna SC U16: KSA U17: Concorde U18: Tormenta FC U20: NASA
Seven different clubs, and several who are overlooked consistently when talking about the state's successful programs. If all you read was this forum, you might think there were only 5-6 relevant clubs in the state, but this shows otherwise.
Post by gaprospects on Jun 2, 2017 15:11:34 GMT -5
The U15 boys bracket is huge. 15 clubs from 3 states. It looks like they might be keeping standings at that age as well next year. With the rumors that U14 Summer Showcase is going away, maybe the replacement is playoffs at U15 (the same aged kids)? Will be interesting to see.
Post by gaprospects on May 21, 2017 20:31:55 GMT -5
Just looking at the USSDA game report from the website, it looks like AU used 3 of their national team '03s in the 02 game. Can anyone who was at the match (guerillaman) confirm that? Those reports aren't always correct.
Post by gaprospects on May 21, 2017 11:06:09 GMT -5
I think it was unrealistic to expect them to get it exactly right in year one at every age group, and with players that young it's hard to predict much about their performance from a 2-day tryout. For the club's immediate future, it was much more important to get the selections right in the older teams, which they clearly did.
Now they've had a full year to scout whomever both in the state and throughout the Southeast, so player selection shouldn't be an excuse. We'll get to see if the struggles are truly down to coaching.
Post by gaprospects on May 19, 2017 10:30:57 GMT -5
Those kind of agreements cost a lot of money. United is giving GaTech hundreds of thousands of dollars for every game they play in BDS. Boris asked the Silverbacks for 12.5k to offset the cost of rescheduling the Wednesday-night leagues, and that price was too steep for the Silverbacks to take. NPSL teams operate on tiny budgets, so as inconvenient as it was, you have to give the Silverbacks credit for doing what they could.
Anyone go or watch the game? Wondering how the talent level compared with one another?
I was there. It was a very even game. The Silverbacks could have won had a couple of things gone their way.
The heat was the defining feature of the match. 95-ish degrees in the mid-afternoon, and it showed on the field as both teams tired out very quickly in the second half, making it a pretty sluggish, stop-start type of match.
Post by gaprospects on May 16, 2017 17:58:59 GMT -5
Shame about the time, but I'll be there. Benefits of having nothing to do on a Wednesday afternoon.
For all of the continuing issues with the Silverbacks they have put together a good, deep squad. They just played 3 games in 4 days and won them all. The Battery have been winning as well, they're top of the Eastern Conference in USL this season.
So, two old rivals, both in great form coming in. Throw in the usual US Open Cup madness, and this promises to be a great one.
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Jun 19, 2017 10:32:25 GMT -5
soccerdad11: if we have committed to a club and has been accepted to another club will they let us transfer?
Jun 27, 2017 10:46:37 GMT -5
prekiwasnogood: Have you signed and paid registration soccerdad11?
Jun 27, 2017 13:05:25 GMT -5
soccerdad11: yes signed and paid
Jun 28, 2017 10:49:17 GMT -5
SoccerMom: you can transfer but you won't get a refund
Jun 28, 2017 14:54:14 GMT -5
soccerdad11: thanks - i am ok with no refund i just dont want to be told they will not let us transfer
Jun 29, 2017 10:37:14 GMT -5
SoccerMom: as long as you are paid in full, they have to let you transfer. If they don't you go to Georgia Soccer and they will do transfer
Jul 5, 2017 8:53:19 GMT -5
reinalocura: Most clubs will let you transfer if you pay in full. Some are not willing to do so. It depends upon the club. Alas.
Jul 6, 2017 23:20:53 GMT -5
m22: Can teams play on both NPL and SRPL during the same season?
Sept 19, 2017 12:06:37 GMT -5
Soccerhouse: to post a tweet in a post -- its as simple as over, just cut n paste the twitter link in the body of the post
Oct 3, 2017 12:36:21 GMT -5
zizou: US Men's program has done following since 2011: Missed 2 Olympics, missed U17 World Cup, missed U20 World Cup, missed 2018 Senior World Cup. Is this trajectory USSF is looking for? Don't worry, DA only been going 10 yrs. Just give it more time.
Oct 10, 2017 23:22:01 GMT -5
Soccerhouse: Mens program is in great shape, right where we want to be. Nothing needs to change. Missing world cups, and olympics etc.......
Oct 13, 2017 8:53:03 GMT -5
teenie: I think its become an elitist sport in the USA not for kids with one parent there are so many potentially young under 12 great players at the rec level with no money or parents to take them on these expensive and time consuming club trips
Oct 30, 2017 11:17:43 GMT -5
GAME OVER @ 14 yrs old. : US values: arrogance, showy skills no game sense,height. Favorites in small national pool(picked young) Every kid is finished at 14. Developers die on vine, brains,hustle,game sense and grit need not apply. You must leave US, or game over at 14.
Nov 8, 2017 10:43:33 GMT -5