shaka
Jr. Academy
Posts: 96
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Post by shaka on Apr 28, 2019 21:03:20 GMT -5
I thought there was a thread about this but can't find it.
The coach of one of my daughters academy teams sent an invite to some of the players from the team for training during spring break. The coach was charging for 3 sessions, lower cost if players were from the club & slightly higher cost if not from club. The coach also coaches high school & was conducting the trainings there. The coach told me the he/she only wanted "elite" players to attend.
It seems to me this is unethical. Coach didn't offer to all players from the team, is charging even though he/she is paid by club, is training club players off site.
I'm not upset about it but I did not have my daughter participate & wonder if I should inform the DOC.
Would appreciate others perspectives.
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Post by Futsal Gawdess on Apr 28, 2019 23:47:16 GMT -5
Technically, the coaches are supposed to get the permission of their DOCs prior to offering training to club participants. Unfortunately, there is no law/rule that I know of that prevents a current soccer coach from also offering privates to members of their current team. Usually, more of a club or DOC rule. I personally think there should be a rule put in place. It is a clear and blatant conflict of interest. This is the main reason Teachers are not allowed to tutor their own students. Not saying the coach can't train, just not members of your current team. The one I know that was really bad this season, was a coach who was using privates to "fix" issues his players were having instead of working on them in practice. More importantly, he would offer his privates in lieu of the free sessions offered by the club. Again just my opinion...FG
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Post by atlfutboldad on Apr 29, 2019 7:53:32 GMT -5
Since this is an off-week training i dont have much of a problem with this. So the training is not happening in leiu of doing the training in practice. Regarding training "only elite" players...hmm, i think this is couterintuitive. I'd be more inclined to run elite training but have all players do it. Will they mess up, sure, but they need to "fix it" real time and get better. Bad habits and techniques can be fixed on the fly.
There's a coach at UFA Norcross (girls) who i know is/was (at least used to be) bad about the issue FG mentioned. Wanted you to pay for the training he should be doing in practice. Maybe he doesn't do it now, but tigers and stripes and whatnot.
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Post by oraclesfriend on Apr 29, 2019 8:36:56 GMT -5
This UFA Norcross girls coach...I wonder...is it the same one who used to be at LSA? If so, the tiger/stripes answer would be answered.
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Post by atlfutboldad on Apr 29, 2019 9:16:25 GMT -5
That would be affirmative.
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Post by Futsal Gawdess on Apr 29, 2019 9:51:45 GMT -5
Since this is an off-week training i dont have much of a problem with this. So the training is not happening in leiu of doing the training in practice. Regarding training "only elite" players...hmm, i think this is couterintuitive. I'd be more inclined to run elite training but have all players do it. Will they mess up, sure, but they need to "fix it" real time and get better. Bad habits and techniques can be fixed on the fly. There's a coach at UFA Norcross (girls) who i know is/was (at least used to be) bad about the issue FG mentioned. Wanted you to pay for the training he should be doing in practice. Maybe he doesn't do it now, but tigers and stripes and whatnot. Thanks for the reminder about the coach at Norcross. I wasn't sure if the club had tampered that behavior or not, so I reached out to a couple of the parents on that team to get an update. I hear he's still doing it, though more quietly now and with primarily only one of his 3 teams. What is more worrisome I hear is that he dedicates more of his time and effort to the team with the players who train with him and has given up on his other two teams. I am really surprised that UFA and specifically the Norcross leadership is allowing this type behavior to continue, but then again maybe they are not aware...FG |
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Post by Upper90 on Apr 29, 2019 10:03:08 GMT -5
FG, Oh sadly, Norcross is aware. I am just not sure they care. Apparently, for many it has been a long season w/ him this year.
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Post by soccergurl on Apr 29, 2019 10:25:59 GMT -5
I have been hearing about this coach all year from my sister, my niece plays for him. It is her first year at the club, they already want to leave. Sad. They are waiting to see if he is the coach next season
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Post by soccermaxx72 on Apr 29, 2019 10:44:28 GMT -5
Since this is an off-week training i dont have much of a problem with this. So the training is not happening in leiu of doing the training in practice. Regarding training "only elite" players...hmm, i think this is couterintuitive. I'd be more inclined to run elite training but have all players do it. Will they mess up, sure, but they need to "fix it" real time and get better. Bad habits and techniques can be fixed on the fly. There's a coach at UFA Norcross (girls) who i know is/was (at least used to be) bad about the issue FG mentioned. Wanted you to pay for the training he should be doing in practice. Maybe he doesn't do it now, but tigers and stripes and whatnot. Thanks for the reminder about the coach at Norcross. I wasn't sure if the club had tampered that behavior or not, so I reached out to a couple of the parents on that team to get an update. I hear he's still doing it, though more quietly now and with primarily only one of his 3 teams. What is more worrisome I hear is that he dedicates more of his time and effort to the team with the players who train with him and has given up on his other two teams. I am really surprised that UFA and specifically the Norcross leadership is allowing this type behavior to continue, but then again maybe they are not aware...FG He was doing this at his previous club as well and it rubbed some parents the wrong way especially when it came out he was charging some kids for this training and others he was doing for free. |
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Post by oraclesfriend on Apr 29, 2019 11:16:33 GMT -5
FG, Oh sadly, Norcross is aware. I am just not sure they care. Apparently, for many it has been a long season w/ him this year. He is a love him or hate him kind of coach. For many it depends on whether you are a favorite or not, though some parents can't stand him even if they are among the favorites. I wonder if Norcross hears more from the love him crowd. Possibly the hate him crowd needs to be more vocal. He only tried to develop the kids he deems worthy in training and ignores the others. |
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Post by Futsal Gawdess on Apr 29, 2019 11:16:46 GMT -5
Interesting, didn't know it was all part of an elaborate plan. The leadership is either going to have to put a kibosh on that, or at the very least try to set some rules and standards when it comes to players on his team...FG
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Post by Futsal Gawdess on Apr 29, 2019 11:19:50 GMT -5
FG, Oh sadly, Norcross is aware. I am just not sure they care. Apparently, for many it has been a long season w/ him this year. He is a love him or hate him kind of coach. For many it depends on whether you are a favorite or not, though some parents can't stand him even if they are among the favorites. I wonder if Norcross hears more from the love him crowd. Possibly the hate him crowd needs to be more vocal. He only tried to develop the kids he deems worthy in training and ignores the others. Woah, that is actually worse. Only choosing to develop the kids he deems worthy and ignoring the others. Have to say, I would have an issue with that, especially since he is actually being paid to do just the opposite. If leadership doesn't wrangle his in-actions, they are going to have a lot of unhappy customers on their hands. They are aware tryouts are around the corner? I know he coaches the 2007 SCCL team, does anyone else know what other teams he coaches...FG |
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Post by liverpool99 on Apr 29, 2019 11:25:57 GMT -5
I think I know exactly what you all are talking about. He actually has his own private training program and has always offered trainings year around. It’s easy to say things without knowing and much more from those parents on one of his team that are absolutely stupid when it comes to soccer. His two other teams do well and those parents absolutely love him as my daughter does too from what I see. I hear it all from his team with crazy parents, most of their disagreements are related to drama. I also know that team was struggling with finishing in the first half of the season and due to club curriculum they were focused on building out of the back and that’s where the focus was at. Parents know this and still complain because he offers finishing sessions. UFA has free finishing sessions and all parents have to do is choose that rather than his sessions. Parents always find a way to complain. His work doesn’t lie, watch his teams play and you’ll see why parents leave clubs to play for him. I definitely vouch for him and his work, there is a reason why he has 3 top level teams there. Some parents have been envious of younger players playing up and taking time which he’s know for doing. And from what the players say, they like him too it’s the parents who are the problem. Go figure. One team has done extremely well, the problem parent team won Disney and still upset. The older Sccl team is sitting 3rd. Stop spreading ignorance. Thought I’d share since I’m at the club and can give more accurate information. And no we don’t participate in the trainings during season.
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Post by liverpool99 on Apr 29, 2019 11:31:00 GMT -5
He coaches 08 prem, 07 Sccl & 06 Sccl. My daughter plays for him and doesn’t start. However that’s a lie that he doesn’t focus on all player development. My daughter is definitely not the best on the team by any means and we have never seen him favor others when developing players. Again that 07 group of parents are pretty crazy, I’m sure that’s where this is coming from.
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Post by oraclesfriend on Apr 29, 2019 11:38:13 GMT -5
I think I know exactly what you all are talking about. He actually has his own private training program and has always offered trainings year around. It’s easy to say things without knowing and much more from those parents on one of his team that are absolutely stupid when it comes to soccer. His two other teams do well and those parents absolutely love him as my daughter does too from what I see. I hear it all from his team with crazy parents, most of their disagreements are related to drama. I also know that team was struggling with finishing in the first half of the season and due to club curriculum they were focused on building out of the back and that’s where the focus was at. Parents know this and still complain because he offers finishing sessions. UFA has free finishing sessions and all parents have to do is choose that rather than his sessions. Parents always find a way to complain. His work doesn’t lie, watch his teams play and you’ll see why parents leave clubs to play for him. I definitely vouch for him and his work, there is a reason why he has 3 top level teams there. Some parents have been envious of younger players playing up and taking time which he’s know for doing. And from what the players say, they like him too it’s the parents who are the problem. Go figure. One team has done extremely well, the problem parent team won Disney and still upset. The older Sccl team is sitting 3rd. Stop spreading ignorance. Thought I’d share since I’m at the club and can give more accurate information. And no we don’t participate in the trainings during season. As I said a love him or hate him. We had him. If I say too much there will be many people who will know who I am, if they don't already by my many comments. We left him based on my CHILD's opinion of him. 3 other kids left when we did. After training my child for more than one season, he won't even look her in the eye if he sees her unexpectedly. If he sees her before actually running into her he will avoid her. We loved him the first season until we repeatedly caught him lying to us and our child. People might choose to come play for him, but there are an equal number (or more) that run the other way. So you love him. Good for you. We don't and based on a lot of time and exposure. Because he is a coach that some people love I have always, in the past, been generous and giving him his kudos for the things he does well. But I warn people that if they aren't a favorite they will see a different side of him than those who are his favorites. My child has done worlds better away from him than she did with him. The club location where we are is world's better than where we were. |
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Post by oraclesfriend on Apr 29, 2019 11:40:50 GMT -5
He coaches 08 prem, 07 Sccl & 06 Sccl. My daughter plays for him and doesn’t start. However that’s a lie that he doesn’t focus on all player development. My daughter is definitely not the best on the team by any means and we have never seen him favor others when developing players. Again that 07 group of parents are pretty crazy, I’m sure that’s where this is coming from. It is not a lie. Maybe he isn't doing it to you, but he did it to us and many others who played for him in the past. Hopefully he is maturing. I gave him the benefit of the doubt based on his age when we had him. There are many people I could point you to that would say the same. |
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Post by liverpool99 on Apr 29, 2019 11:41:31 GMT -5
That’s great. I’m sure most parents that have players that didn’t do too hot or start or play as much as the parent would like will have that opinion. Fair for anyone to have that opinion.
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Post by oraclesfriend on Apr 29, 2019 11:50:58 GMT -5
That’s great. I’m sure most parents that have players that didn’t do too hot or start or play as much as the parent would like will have that opinion. Fair for anyone to have that opinion. Yes it is fair for everyone to have an opinion. This wasn't our child, but how would you like it if at U10 you drove 1.5 hours to a tournament match and watched your child, who was rostered to the top team when the second team was also at the same tournament, sit on the bench for an entire match?!? Zero minutes. The child was not injured and not "in trouble." This was not done for discipline. He just never put her in. This was not an isolated incident. He did this regularly. At U10 if a kid isn't playing half the game, that is not developing players AND it goes against the Georgia soccer rules. |
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Post by heretounderstand on Apr 29, 2019 11:56:42 GMT -5
He coaches 08 prem, 07 Sccl & 06 Sccl. My daughter plays for him and doesn’t start. However that’s a lie that he doesn’t focus on all player development. My daughter is definitely not the best on the team by any means and we have never seen him favor others when developing players. Again that 07 group of parents are pretty crazy, I’m sure that’s where this is coming from. Ah! If we are talking about the same team we have played against them and I can support the statement that some parents on that team are cray cray - inappropriate yelling at 11 & 12 year olds on the other team, screaming at the ref on every call - but others seem just fine so I don't want to lump them all as nutso. BUT, I believe this is the coach that didn't even show up for a game in the finals at a preseason tourney this spring...or perhaps it was a consolation game and not the finals and that is why he didn't show up...yes, I believe the second was the situation. I BELIEVE another coach had to sit on the bench and stand in as their coach - the guy you are all referring to - didn't show up and didn't bother to tell the parents he wouldn't be there. |
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Post by guest on Apr 29, 2019 12:04:27 GMT -5
That’s great. I’m sure most parents that have players that didn’t do too hot or start or play as much as the parent would like will have that opinion. Fair for anyone to have that opinion. Yes it is fair for everyone to have an opinion. This wasn't our child, but how would you like it if at U10 you drove 1.5 hours to a tournament match and watched your child, who was rostered to the top team when the second team was also at the same tournament, sit on the bench for an entire match?!? Zero minutes. The child was not injured and not "in trouble." This was not done for discipline. He just never put her in. This was not an isolated incident. He did this regularly. At U10 if a kid isn't playing half the game, that is not developing players AND it goes against the Georgia soccer rules. You described my child’s exact situation. At U10, He got maybe 2 min a game. Thurs practice was scrimmage and he didn’t see the practice field either. When we got the nerve up to ask about playing time, coach responded it wouldn’t be fair to the good players to put your kid in. What a jerk! That kid kept at it and worked his way on to better teams, starter, etc. Now plays SCCL and made first team all region in HS and is getting offers from smaller colleges. I want to find that U10 coach and invite him to our HS signing day. Stick with it. Crappy coaches don’t last but players with heart do! |
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Post by Futsal Gawdess on Apr 29, 2019 12:15:22 GMT -5
I think I know exactly what you all are talking about. He actually has his own private training program and has always offered trainings year around. It’s easy to say things without knowing and much more from those parents on one of his team that are absolutely stupid when it comes to soccer. His two other teams do well and those parents absolutely love him as my daughter does too from what I see. I hear it all from his team with crazy parents, most of their disagreements are related to drama. I also know that team was struggling with finishing in the first half of the season and due to club curriculum they were focused on building out of the back and that’s where the focus was at. Parents know this and still complain because he offers finishing sessions. UFA has free finishing sessions and all parents have to do is choose that rather than his sessions. Parents always find a way to complain. His work doesn’t lie, watch his teams play and you’ll see why parents leave clubs to play for him. I definitely vouch for him and his work, there is a reason why he has 3 top level teams there. Some parents have been envious of younger players playing up and taking time which he’s know for doing. And from what the players say, they like him too it’s the parents who are the problem. Go figure. One team has done extremely well, the problem parent team won Disney and still upset. The older Sccl team is sitting 3rd. Stop spreading ignorance. Thought I’d share since I’m at the club and can give more accurate information. And no we don’t participate in the trainings during season. I understand you have the right to have your opinions, as do others, but I don't think it's fair to lump all the parents as "absolutely stupid" when it comes to soccer. I know a couple of the parents on that team that have coached and played at high levels. Stupid is not how I would categorize them. Clearly, there is a problem on this team. Could some of the blame be on the parents - yes, could some of the blame also be put on the coach - yes. The kids of the parents I know on that team both start, get maximum playing time and for the most part are integral parts of that team. Yet they are still unhappy with the coach when it comes to his behavior and his lack of development for their kids. From my discussions today, one of the parents has a video of him on the sideline on his phone for close to 10 minutes during an actual game. He has had close to 5 car accidents and been late on 4 other occasions that warranted a parent warming up and sometimes coaching the team. From what i'm getting he may have already washed his hand of the team. That is fine, but then give up the team to someone else or at the very least be a professional and finish out your obligation to the team. They also mentioned that there are some unreasonable parents on the team, complaining about playing time and lamenting about younger players playing up with them. Which we can all agree is just crazy. Also, to your point about others liking him, he did bring a number of players from his old club to the team. I hear 4 of the starting 9 are his. I don't know what the solution is but clearly there is a problem that I'm honestly surprised management hasn't been made aware or hasn't looked to rectify. Maybe a combination of the actions of both the parents and the coach have lead management to refrain from acting. Either way, I hope he won't be in charge of this team next year. Might be time to give a more seasoned coach the opportunity to right the ship...FG P.S. I was told he showed up for one full game and started one other game at Disney 😨😨 |
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Post by mistergrinch on Apr 29, 2019 12:33:20 GMT -5
Hoo boy... I know this coach of which y'all speak.
Momma always said.. if you can't say something nice.. but hell, this is the interwebs.
The things that Oracle and FG have said above are 100% true.. he shows up when he feels like it, and half-asses it half the time. If you're a favorite, maybe you have it better.. if you're not, sucks to be you.
He NEVER followed the GA soccer guidelines on playing time, even at U9. I once watched a practice where he brought in another team to scrimmage - at the time he had ALL the U9 and U10 teams (this was pre-UFA)... he called over 8 or 9 kids, and left everyone else to play rondo for 90 minutes. Yes, he charged his own players for extra training throughout the year. Yes, he trained some for free. Yes, he lied to 8 year old kids regularly. The story Oracle tells about the tournament? yeah, that was a pretty regular occurrence - he'd roster kids then sit them for the full game. At U9 and U10.. there is NO excuse for that.
He is one of the rare coaches that I'd move my kid to a different club rather than let them play for him.
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Post by liverpool99 on Apr 29, 2019 13:14:26 GMT -5
You were misinformed probably by the same parents complaining on this forum. Especially about Disney. Funny to hear all this, very entertaining.
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Post by atlfutboldad on Apr 29, 2019 13:43:34 GMT -5
From my perspective, this coach always prioritizes the highest age team which is doing the best. Will show up late/leave early if his preferred team has a competing game. Totally bailed on his LSA U11 Navy team at their final tournament. For U11 academy, would bring players and only play her 5 minutes a half (or not at all), which as someone mentioned, is against GA Soccer rules. Definitely has a preference for players who train with him. A lot of ppl coming out of the woodwork regarding this coach, I was worried this problem was more prevalent in the state. I know 4 of his 07's and one of his 06's came from LSA (was kinda surprised about the 06 TBH). I'm kinda curious of how his relationship is with JC at LSA after (as I understand it) they helped send him to Barca for a week and then left and took 5 players with him, and caused 4+ other families to leave LSA (the 06's fell apart the next year). I am so thankful for the great coaches my kid has had this year after 3 straight years of bad coaches. oraclesfriend, I'm curious if we know each other |
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Post by liverpool99 on Apr 29, 2019 14:18:37 GMT -5
atlfutboldad: misinformed again. He actually paid his own way to Barcelona. Not sure you should touch on a subject that you have no knowledge on. My son has trained with him for years since his lsa days. Never coached my son in a team as we were never at the same club. My son now plays DA and my daughter plays for him now,
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Post by liverpool99 on Apr 29, 2019 14:21:07 GMT -5
You forgot to mention the 08’s/ 09’s that came with him from LSA too.
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Post by soccermaxx72 on Apr 29, 2019 14:21:08 GMT -5
He is a love him or hate him kind of coach. For many it depends on whether you are a favorite or not, though some parents can't stand him even if they are among the favorites. I wonder if Norcross hears more from the love him crowd. Possibly the hate him crowd needs to be more vocal. He only tried to develop the kids he deems worthy in training and ignores the others. Woah, that is actually worse. Only choosing to develop the kids he deems worthy and ignoring the others. Have to say, I would have an issue with that, especially since he is actually being paid to do just the opposite. If leadership doesn't wrangle his in-actions, they are going to have a lot of unhappy customers on their hands. They are aware tryouts are around the corner? I know he coaches the 2007 SCCL team, does anyone else know what other teams he coaches...FG 2007 SCCL 2006 SCCL 2008 top Norcross team as well, some parents aren’t happy about that as well from the ones I’ve talked to in the middle of it all Spread way too thin and from what I hear his new pet/favorite group is the 2008 team which is probably rubbing some of the 2007 and 2006 parents the wrong way. |
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shaka
Jr. Academy
Posts: 96
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Post by shaka on Apr 29, 2019 20:56:05 GMT -5
Thanks for all the feedback. After reading about others experiences
with UFA Norcross, my initial concern seems mild
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Post by infoguy on Apr 30, 2019 7:05:32 GMT -5
All these coaches do this to make extra $, but my experience has never been when they only want to train "elite" players. So ridiculous.
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Post by atlfutboldad on Apr 30, 2019 7:38:12 GMT -5
Nothing wrong with earning extra $ training on the side, it's a great idea.
So long as the coach...
1 ' Desn't give special treatment to the players paying to train on the side.
2 - Doesnt withhold "good"/advanced training from practices which are only available through paying more.
Hence the discussion of whether a coach should be allowed to privately train their players on the side/l and whether it's a conflict of interest. I'd side with FG that it shouldnt be allowed, with the caveat that "unless it's an open training session provided on club facilities open to all" (which some clubs provide).
The coach discussed in most of this thread is good at it and produces results. But three ethical concerns raised are valid.
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