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Post by soccerFAN on Jul 30, 2019 8:10:24 GMT -5
Can a player be rostered in an ECNL team and also in a SCCL team?
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Post by Strikeorkeep on Jul 30, 2019 9:29:57 GMT -5
Can a player be rostered in an ECNL team and also in a SCCL team? Yes, we had a few friends who played a handful of ECNL games but main team was SCCL. |
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Post by oraclesfriend on Jul 30, 2019 12:12:58 GMT -5
Yes, but they cannot play for both teams on the same day, I think. At least that is what we were told...
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Post by Keeper on Jul 30, 2019 14:12:10 GMT -5
Honestly I don’t think there’s any rules saying you can’t since there’s no oversight between ECNL and SCCL. Technically a player could be rostered ECNL, SCCL, and on an Athena/Classic team since all three are separate entities.
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Post by soccernotfootball on Jul 30, 2019 14:39:32 GMT -5
There are rules and you can pull from your non-ECNL players to dual roster. Even if it's one game, that player is added to the ECNL season roster and counts toward the 30 player season roster maximum. In SCCL, master rosters are not frozen and may include any valid US Club carded player within the club.
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Post by soccermaxx72 on Jul 30, 2019 15:12:21 GMT -5
I still personally hate this rule across all leagues. I would be fine with a group of players being rostered SCCL and if they improve or injuries occur then fine pull up a player to ECNL but any club pulling down ECNL players to win SCCL games is just wrong.
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Post by mightydawg on Jul 30, 2019 15:27:49 GMT -5
I still personally hate this rule across all leagues. I would be fine with a group of players being rostered SCCL and if they improve or injuries occur then fine pull up a player to ECNL but any club pulling down ECNL players to win SCCL games is just wrong. Pulling down starters is wrong but pulling down a kid who is not getting much playing time on his/her team is fine. Players should be pulled from the bottom of an upper team roster and the top of a lower team roster. |
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Post by mistergrinch on Jul 31, 2019 8:40:31 GMT -5
I still personally hate this rule across all leagues. I would be fine with a group of players being rostered SCCL and if they improve or injuries occur then fine pull up a player to ECNL but any club pulling down ECNL players to win SCCL games is just wrong. Pulling down starters is wrong but pulling down a kid who is not getting much playing time on his/her team is fine. Players should be pulled from the bottom of an upper team roster and the top of a lower team roster. Yeah, this was discussed ad-nauseum.. what you're suggesting isn't what happened. Maxx is referring to a particular local club who routinely took ECNL starters and played them down to their Piedmont team.. these weren't players 12-16, they were starters. |
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Post by Keeper on Jul 31, 2019 11:29:51 GMT -5
Sorry but I’m all for no roster movement. If you make ECNL, you play ECNL. or whatever level above Athena D / Classic 4. The lowest level Classic and Athena teams can send up players but that’s it. No being a two way player between other leagues. Players can move up in age groups but not level.
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Post by soccermaxx72 on Jul 31, 2019 12:03:57 GMT -5
Sorry but I’m all for no roster movement. If you make ECNL, you play ECNL. or whatever level above Athena D / Classic 4. The lowest level Classic and Athena teams can send up players but that’s it. No being a two way player between other leagues. Players can move up in age groups but not level. Totally agree |
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Post by mightydawg on Jul 31, 2019 12:29:06 GMT -5
Sorry but I’m all for no roster movement. If you make ECNL, you play ECNL. or whatever level above Athena D / Classic 4. The lowest level Classic and Athena teams can send up players but that’s it. No being a two way player between other leagues. Players can move up in age groups but not level. Sounds good in theory but what do you do about injuries, player moving out of the area, player quitting etc? If rosters were locked and could not be changed from beginning of season until end, you would see clubs have huge rosters, which ultimately kills development. To me, it is much better to keep a roster smaller (15, 16 kids) and be able to pull kids up from a lower team or pull down a bench sitter on an upper team when the need arises. |
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Post by olderthandirt on Jul 31, 2019 13:01:36 GMT -5
Sorry but I’m all for no roster movement. If you make ECNL, you play ECNL. or whatever level above Athena D / Classic 4. The lowest level Classic and Athena teams can send up players but that’s it. No being a two way player between other leagues. Funny thing: this is how is was before the advent of all of the alphabet leagues and the rise of US Club Soccer. A player could club pass up, but not down. It was pretty simple. So, sure, a club could in theory roster a couple of their top players to a lower team and just club pass them up pretty much every week. And there were a few clubs who tried that tactic, but for the most part the clubs played it straight with their rosters.
But now ...
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Post by surgesoccer on Jul 31, 2019 13:05:42 GMT -5
Player movement should always be up. not down. If a player is on the top team and not getting much playing time, then maybe they should have been on the second team from the start. Of course clubs would get around this rule by rostering first team starters on the second team and then playing them up for every game.
So back to the fundamental question of "Is a club developing players or simply trying to win games". My perspective is it should be both. When my son's team plays I want them to win, but I want them to win with the players on the team. If the coach was pulling players down and taking time from full-time players I would be pissed and confront the club or coach.
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Post by atlfutboldad on Jul 31, 2019 13:08:30 GMT -5
But how do you identify players who were originally on the top team? Once a player plays ECNL, they have to be added to the roster. To play a showcase they have to have the patch.
Does Carleton not get to play ATL2 because he's played for ATL1?
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Post by surgesoccer on Jul 31, 2019 13:22:03 GMT -5
Forget trying to enforce this from a league perspective, there are always loopholes. It comes down to a club's philosophy on doing right. And teams that do right will always be at a disadvantage to those that don't/
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Post by olderthandirt on Jul 31, 2019 13:40:25 GMT -5
Forget trying to enforce this from a league perspective, there are always loopholes. It comes down to a club's philosophy on doing right. And teams that do right will always be at a disadvantage to those that don't/ While I agree with you philosophically, I do know of one club who lost (I think) four players from one team this year over this specific issue. The parents all took their children to a club that doesn't have that reputation for looking for loopholes to gain an advantage. While these players aren't the type of players who will probably appear on National Teams someday, they were all good, solid players that most clubs would be happy to welcome to play on their teams.
If more parents are willing to take the steps that these parents and players took, who knows where it might lead ...
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Post by mistergrinch on Jul 31, 2019 14:48:14 GMT -5
Does Carleton not get to play ATL2 because he's played for ATL1? This may be the most disingenuous argument yet.
You're seriously comparing paid professionals working within farm systems (MLB majors/minors, etc).. to 12yo kids?
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Post by soccernotfootball on Jul 31, 2019 16:42:52 GMT -5
Just play who's in front of you.
Teams/coaches aren't bringing "down" so-called "top" players to win games wholesale. Things like that happening are so miniscule it's not even worth bothering to worry about. I can guarantee what actually does happen wholesale is people making assumptions about players and what's going on at clubs when they usually don't have any clue what's up.
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Post by oraclesfriend on Jul 31, 2019 18:49:56 GMT -5
Just play who's in front of you. Teams/coaches aren't bringing "down" so-called "top" players to win games wholesale. Things like that happening are so miniscule it's not even worth bothering to worry about. I can guarantee what actually does happen wholesale is people making assumptions about players and what's going on at clubs when they usually don't have any clue what's up. This is true many times but not always. While we discusses this prior to the post-season tournaments and through it there are clubs that did this routinely last year. Without getting into naming kids or teams at specific clubs I am aware of a player from one club who played down a team in a tournament as well as regular season games. She played at least 6 games with the lower team and was offered several more but couldn't always make it. This player was on a higher level team (highest level at her club and one of the top two leagues available in our area). That team only had 15 rostered players and she got plenty of playing time. Another team pulled down a player from a higher level team who was also a DP for an even higher level team. Both clubs had parents on this forum who claimed these was isolated due to injuries. While I believe that for one club as I have not seen this historically with them, the other was a habitual offender. The one player that I know well was one of many who played down to that team. The previous year they had 3 of their best top team players dual rostered to the lower team. Not players 13-15. These were players 1-3. So, you can think it is minuscule or that people have no clue, but when it comes to top players on top teams in my kids' age groups I know nearly all of them by name and face. I have a very long memory and know people well at nearly every club and many of these players have bounced around clubs or my kid has played with them either on the regular team or futsal or 3v3 or whatever or has a really good friend who plays or played with them. It really is a small world. Regardless as to whether it is right or wrong to pull down players you are correct that you just have to play who is in front of you. |
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Post by oraclesfriend on Jul 31, 2019 18:53:23 GMT -5
But how do you identify players who were originally on the top team? Once a player plays ECNL, they have to be added to the roster. To play a showcase they have to have the patch. Does Carleton not get to play ATL2 because he's played for ATL1? Many times I know who they are because I know them or their teammates. Also if you looked at the roster earlier in the season and they weren't on it then but are later. |
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Post by Keeper on Jul 31, 2019 21:28:23 GMT -5
But how do you identify players who were originally on the top team? Once a player plays ECNL, they have to be added to the roster. To play a showcase they have to have the patch. Does Carleton not get to play ATL2 because he's played for ATL1? Correct. If Carlton was that good to make the first time. Then he plays on the first time. Playing with that shîtshow that is a 2nd team has only showed that he wasn’t that good in the first place. |
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Post by Keeper on Jul 31, 2019 21:33:41 GMT -5
Sorry but I’m all for no roster movement. If you make ECNL, you play ECNL. or whatever level above Athena D / Classic 4. The lowest level Classic and Athena teams can send up players but that’s it. No being a two way player between other leagues. Players can move up in age groups but not level. Sounds good in theory but what do you do about injuries, player moving out of the area, player quitting etc? If rosters were locked and could not be changed from beginning of season until end, you would see clubs have huge rosters, which ultimately kills development. To me, it is much better to keep a roster smaller (15, 16 kids) and be able to pull kids up from a lower team or pull down a bench sitter on an upper team when the need arises. Okay injuries and players moving during season is like a 1% of the time thing. High level players shouldn’t be quitting if coaches and parents actually do their jobs. And again you can still pull from the younger ages to fill in when lil Jimmy gets a sprain ankle and is out for a weekend. We gotta stop making excuses for these kids. In a previous post it seemed everyone was on board to have rosters with 16+ players so use your players! If roster sizes were maxed at 14 then I’d be open to more player movement but 15-16 players is plenty. |
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Post by surgesoccer on Aug 1, 2019 13:51:03 GMT -5
Just play who's in front of you. Teams/coaches aren't bringing "down" so-called "top" players to win games wholesale. Things like that happening are so miniscule it's not even worth bothering to worry about. I can guarantee what actually does happen wholesale is people making assumptions about players and what's going on at clubs when they usually don't have any clue what's up. At times it may be minuscule but the impact sometimes makes a dent. Case in point (not going to state the team or year) Classic 1 team went 2-9 in Fall season. An affiliated club (different club but after an signed agreement, competing under the same umbrella) finished high enough in fall to jump to NL for Spring. When Spring rolled around that 2-9 team won the spring league to advance to NL for the following year. How did they do it: 1. Since the affiliated club was no longer in Classic 1 (in NL for Spring) they borrowed at least 3 players from the affiliated club. Kids were playing NL and Classic 1. The other club was about an hour drive away, so it took effort to get the kids to the games. Per GA rules this was legal bc the teams were in different leagues. 2. They had 5 kids that were 05's rostered on the 04 team for the Fall. In the Spring those kids then played both with the 04 and 05 team. Once again not illegal as they were 05's. The one game they lost was on a weekend when the affiliated NL team was playing out of state. So nothing they did was illegal per GA Soccer. But you're talking 6-8 kids that were on the roster being displaced so that other kids could come in to help the team win. Worked like a charm for the club bc they won Classic 1, got promoted to NL, and were able to use that to bring in better players. Did not work so well for the kids which is what this is supposed to be for. GA soccer knew this because the Age Coordinator was affiliated with the club. GA Soccer is spineless or lazy and doesn't want to get involved in disputes unless it's against the Big 5. That's my perspective. |
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