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Post by guest on Sept 16, 2019 10:21:41 GMT -5
**Warning: This thread contains unhelpful and unnecessary venting. If this bothers you, please move along. Otherwise proceed at your own risk**
OK, so we recently had our first out of state travel experience in ECNL. Our match versus Sunrise in Fort Lauderdale was relocated to Brian Piccolo Sports Park (was changed ahead of time with plenty of notice so no issue there) due to their home park still being very soggy.
-Game was at 9am, but the park did not open until 8am. By then there was a line on the street 1/4 mile long of cars to get in. There is a $1.50 entrance fee. This is not unheard of and is no big deal. But the ticket booth guy came in late saying the county just called him that morning to tell him they had events that day. Each transaction took an eternity; attendant walking out to the car, walking to the booth, walking back to the car. Nowhere near as fast as at GSP. Players from both teams were walking down the sidewalk on Sheridan St to get into the park to go warm up. Waited almost an hour to get in to the park. Added bonus: Attendant had no change! So real entrance fee was $2.
-We played on what appeared to be their 9v9 field. Way too small for U18. Not mown, grass was up to players' shins and almost obscured the ball in places. Asked to move to an adjacent full size field and was told no. Inbound goal kicks and punts were routinely caught by the opposing keeper. Anthills all over, potholes obscured by the tall grass. U9 Rec plays on better fields.
-Only one AR to start the game, 2nd one showed up 30 min late. Used a dad as a linesman. Linesmen are only supposed to help identify throw ins, right? Not this one. Center ref did not instruct the dad ahead of time so he was raising flags to call fouls. Center kept looking over at him to check. Once he called a foul as a result. Could he have called it on his own? Maybe, but why did he even look at the linesman?
Overall not a nice soccer environment. Club bigwigs were there so I trust they will provide the necessary feedback.
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Post by guest on Sept 16, 2019 10:49:19 GMT -5
Part 2
**Warning: This thread contains unhelpful and unnecessary venting. If this bothers you, please move along. Otherwise proceed at your own risk**
The other game in Florida was at a nice park in Tampa. Game time was 8am; I thought no ECNL games were to start before 9am? Maybe they had prior agreement.
Field was still very dewy at that time. One of our defending players had their plant foot slip out from under them as they tried to play the ball on a run; resulting in the player going down hard. Center immediately stopped play. Player is down about 30 yds from own goal. A few minutes go by as coach and trainer came on the field, examine player, and lift her up to help off the field. So far, so good, right? As the player nears the sideline, ref walks the ball over to an opposing player who is standing about ~10 yards away from the injury (closer to the goal). He drops the ball in front of her (by this time, it is right outside the penalty box), who blasts it in for a goal. No whistle, no notice, no "Keeper, the ball is over here", nothing.
Chaos ensues. players, parents, coaches hollering. Only thing the ref would say was something about the new change to the LotG.
-I understand there are no more contested drops, all drops are uncontested. Got it. But:
-Ball is supposed to go to the team who last had possession, right? Some chatter afterwards that the other team cleared the ball out right after or simultaneous to the whistle and the ref awarded possession to the other team based on that.
-The reason for the change was to remove the "‘manufactured’ restart which is ‘exploited’ unfairly" (IFAB Circular 15). This was about as manufactured a restart as you could imagine.
-Regardless of manufactured restart or not, do referees give notice that a restart is about to take place? Do they have to or is it just commonplace?
Game ended up a tie, so it is what it is. Center ref looked very unsure all game long. Later in the game, the opposing keeper made a great diving save that pushed the ball past the endline. AR runs down to the flag and signals a corner. Center ref however signals a goal kick. Uproar ensues. Center apparently has second thoughts so he runs up to the keeper and asks (players over heard it) "did you touch the ball?" and making the international signal of sliding two hands past each other indicating a deflection. Goalie says No. Center, with the goalie's opinion in hand, waves off the AR and awards a goal kick. Regardless of whether the call was correct or not, I'm pretty sure refs are not supposed to ask players if such and such happened or not.
OK, so there is my vent for the year. Enjoy!
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Post by atlfutboldad on Sept 16, 2019 10:55:25 GMT -5
OK, so there is my vent for the year. Enjoy! Hey, you have 2 more trips, you may not be done yet.  |
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Post by Futsal Gawdess on Sept 16, 2019 12:25:20 GMT -5
**Warning: This thread contains unhelpful and unnecessary venting. If this bothers you, please move along. Otherwise proceed at your own risk** OK, so we recently had our first out of state travel experience in ECNL. Our match versus Sunrise in Fort Lauderdale was relocated to Brian Piccolo Sports Park (was changed ahead of time with plenty of notice so no issue there) due to their home park still being very soggy. -Game was at 9am, but the park did not open until 8am. By then there was a line on the street 1/4 mile long of cars to get in. There is a $1.50 entrance fee. This is not unheard of and is no big deal. But the ticket booth guy came in late saying the county just called him that morning to tell him they had events that day. Each transaction took an eternity; attendant walking out to the car, walking to the booth, walking back to the car. Nowhere near as fast as at GSP. Players from both teams were walking down the sidewalk on Sheridan St to get into the park to go warm up. Waited almost an hour to get in to the park. Added bonus: Attendant had no change! So real entrance fee was $2. -We played on what appeared to be their 9v9 field. Way too small for U18. Not mown, grass was up to players' shins and almost obscured the ball in places. Asked to move to an adjacent full size field and was told no. Inbound goal kicks and punts were routinely caught by the opposing keeper. Anthills all over, potholes obscured by the tall grass. U9 Rec plays on better fields. -Only one AR to start the game, 2nd one showed up 30 min late. Used a dad as a linesman. Linesmen are only supposed to help identify throw ins, right? Not this one. Center ref did not instruct the dad ahead of time so he was raising flags to call fouls. Center kept looking over at him to check. Once he called a foul as a result. Could he have called it on his own? Maybe, but why did he even look at the linesman? Overall not a nice soccer environment. Club bigwigs were there so I trust they will provide the necessary feedback. There might be a silver lining in your experience at Brian Piccolo SP. I heard from friends that it was $1.50 per person, not per car, so maybe it was a good thing your players got out and walked |
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Post by atlfutboldad on Sept 16, 2019 13:11:48 GMT -5
Yikes, players should not have to pay to enter a location where they are playing, not even at Disney.
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Post by fanatic21 on Sept 16, 2019 13:22:18 GMT -5
Part 2 **Warning: This thread contains unhelpful and unnecessary venting. If this bothers you, please move along. Otherwise proceed at your own risk** The other game in Florida was at a nice park in Tampa. Game time was 8am; I thought no ECNL games were to start before 9am? Maybe they had prior agreement. Field was still very dewy at that time. One of our defending players had their plant foot slip out from under them as they tried to play the ball on a run; resulting in the player going down hard. Center immediately stopped play. Player is down about 30 yds from own goal. A few minutes go by as coach and trainer came on the field, examine player, and lift her up to help off the field. So far, so good, right? As the player nears the sideline, ref walks the ball over to an opposing player who is standing about ~10 yards away from the injury (closer to the goal). He drops the ball in front of her (by this time, it is right outside the penalty box), who blasts it in for a goal. No whistle, no notice, no "Keeper, the ball is over here", nothing. Chaos ensues. players, parents, coaches hollering. Only thing the ref would say was something about the new change to the LotG. -I understand there are no more contested drops, all drops are uncontested. Got it. But: -Ball is supposed to go to the team who last had possession, right? Some chatter afterwards that the other team cleared the ball out right after or simultaneous to the whistle and the ref awarded possession to the other team based on that. -The reason for the change was to remove the "‘manufactured’ restart which is ‘exploited’ unfairly" (IFAB Circular 15). This was about as manufactured a restart as you could imagine. -Regardless of manufactured restart or not, do referees give notice that a restart is about to take place? Do they have to or is it just commonplace? Game ended up a tie, so it is what it is. Center ref looked very unsure all game long. Later in the game, the opposing keeper made a great diving save that pushed the ball past the endline. AR runs down to the flag and signals a corner. Center ref however signals a goal kick. Uproar ensues. Center apparently has second thoughts so he runs up to the keeper and asks (players over heard it) "did you touch the ball?" and making the international signal of sliding two hands past each other indicating a deflection. Goalie says No. Center, with the goalie's opinion in hand, waves off the AR and awards a goal kick. Regardless of whether the call was correct or not, I'm pretty sure refs are not supposed to ask players if such and such happened or not. OK, so there is my vent for the year. Enjoy! So not only did the ref give the team a clearly unfair advantage, he also did not apply the rules of the game correctly - assuming the keeper didn't get a touch. A drop ball is indirect (changed to indirect in 2017 or 2018 I think). In fact, even if the player had dribbled in and scored, another player must touch the ball after a drop ball before a goal can be scored. |
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Post by soccerloafer on Sept 16, 2019 13:42:04 GMT -5
"Used a dad as a linesman. Linesmen are only supposed to help identify throw ins, right? Not this one. Center ref did not instruct the dad ahead of time so he was raising flags to call fouls. Center kept looking over at him to check. Once he called a foul as a result. Could he have called it on his own? Maybe, but why did he even look at the linesman?"
This depends. As a certified and current referee I fill in gaps at my kids' games all the time. As long as both coaches agree, I can act as a true AR even out of uniform. The coaches have never said no when I explain who I am and my experience. I even centered a tournament game several years ago when the ref no showed and the only options were the 12 year old ARs...
The drop ball was a screw up - your coach should have known better and fought harder. That's a point of law, not an opinion.
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Post by Keeper on Sept 16, 2019 20:11:45 GMT -5
Volunteer “ARs” are only allowed to signal that the ball went out of bounds. Nothing else. Not direction or fouls or anything about the game, just if the ball went out. And either if a volunteer is certified they have to be in uniform to be considered an Official Ref. That is if they also follow the rules of no relation to a player or previous years coach unless both Coaches agree.
Anything more is cause to dispute the game result and have it replayed as long as both coaches do not agree to use Volunteers. Really in these upper level games if three certified, in uniform Refs aren’t available then don’t play the game. They can’t force you to play it if they can’t provide the Refs for it. Not sure what USClub/ECNLs rules are on replaying games but for Ga Soccer it means the original Home team would have to travel to the Away team AND pay for the new set of Refs. Make Florida drive to you or forfeit if they can’t do their jobs. Sucks but this isn’t Rec soccer.
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Post by Respect on Sept 16, 2019 21:53:19 GMT -5
Just one more clarification regarding the dropped ball that may help you later:
If play is stopped inside the penalty area, the ball will be dropped for the defending team goalkeeper, i.e. irrespective of what team last touched the ball.
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Post by greenmonkey on Sept 17, 2019 1:26:18 GMT -5
SCCL travel report update from this weekend
2 1/2 hour travel time
Plenty of Free Parking at the Fields (parents could watch warmups or the game really from their air conditioned cars)
Grass Fields regulation size and immaculately groomed
3 qualified and impartial refs at every game
Water, Ice and Gatorade available at the covered players benches
Just Saying
Joking Aside
Seriously though it is unfortunate that at that level you would have experienced so many barriers to the expectations that ECNL as a league not only promotes but is usually the standard of excellence that other leagues are based on.
Hopefully it was just the Friday the 13th and Full Moon exception and not a sign of future performance.
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Post by atlfutboldad on Sept 17, 2019 7:49:08 GMT -5
Speaking of this, GA ECNL teams (GSA/AFU) had a rough time with SUNRISE Prime FC (did FC Prime merge with another club in the offseason?). SPFC went 9-0-3 against both clubs in all age groups, while they were bottom of the bracket in almost all age groups last year.
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Post by blu on Sept 17, 2019 8:05:37 GMT -5
All of our ECNL games to date have run very smoothly, zero issues. It was the same with SCCL last year. Sorry you had a bad weekend.
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Post by Futsal Gawdess on Sept 17, 2019 8:30:49 GMT -5
Speaking of this, GA ECNL teams (GSA/AFU) had a rough time with SUNRISE Prime FC (did FC Prime merge with another club in the offseason?). SPFC went 9-0-3 against both clubs in all age groups, while they were bottom of the bracket in almost all age groups last year. Yes FC Prime merged with Sunrise Soccer Club and also have an alliance with Cooper City Cobras... |
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Post by oraclesfriend on Sept 17, 2019 9:24:24 GMT -5
Speaking of this, GA ECNL teams (GSA/AFU) had a rough time with SUNRISE Prime FC (did FC Prime merge with another club in the offseason?). SPFC went 9-0-3 against both clubs in all age groups, while they were bottom of the bracket in almost all age groups last year. Yes FC Prime merged with Sunrise Soccer Club and also have an alliance with Cooper City Cobras... Sunrise was a very good club! FC prime did well in the older age groups last year. |
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DOOM
Jr. Academy
Posts: 72 
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Post by DOOM on Sept 17, 2019 9:43:34 GMT -5
Speaking of this, GA ECNL teams (GSA/AFU) had a rough time with SUNRISE Prime FC (did FC Prime merge with another club in the offseason?). SPFC went 9-0-3 against both clubs in all age groups, while they were bottom of the bracket in almost all age groups last year. When you play Sunrise at Sunrise...it's 11v14. I've never quite experienced anything like it. We had a corner kick header goal get waived off because player was "offside"...on a corner with defending players standing on the near and far post. ...it was an awful experience. |
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Post by Keeper on Sept 17, 2019 14:32:35 GMT -5
SCCL travel report update from this weekend 2 1/2 hour travel time Plenty of Free Parking at the Fields (parents could watch warmups or the game really from their air conditioned cars) Grass Fields regulation size and immaculately groomed 3 qualified and impartial refs at every game Water, Ice and Gatorade available at the covered players benches Just Saying Joking Aside Seriously though it is unfortunate that at that level you would have experienced so many barriers to the expectations that ECNL as a league not only promotes but is usually the standard of excellence that other leagues are based on. Hopefully it was just the Friday the 13th and Full Moon exception and not a sign of future performance. Lucky you! SCCL - Premier Games Saturday and Sunday had some bad Refs, not even homecooking type as they missed it on both sides. And the fields were much less then desired. But then again there were Metro Atlanta clubs and fields so what you'd expect for a lower level game. |
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