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U S M N T
Oct 27, 2019 20:15:22 GMT -5
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Post by newposter on Oct 27, 2019 20:15:22 GMT -5
Chalk up another great job by DA readying our u17s. How can we lose to Senegal? Just wow.
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Post by atv on Oct 28, 2019 7:32:30 GMT -5
Chalk up another great job by DA readying our u17s. How can we lose to Senegal? Just wow. About the U17 US Team ..... FROM DA TO THE GLOBAL STAGE: Twenty of the 21 players on the U-17 World Cup roster have spent at least one season in the U.S. Soccer Development Academy. Launched in 2007 with the goal to impact everyday club environments to develop world-class players, the program has had a tremendous impact on the Youth National Team setup. In addition to the 14 players from MLS clubs who came up through their respective academies and North Carolina FC’s Adam Armour, the remaining five players last played for the following DA
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U S M N T
Oct 28, 2019 7:52:16 GMT -5
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Post by oraclesfriend on Oct 28, 2019 7:52:16 GMT -5
Did anyone actually watch the game? I did not, but I looked at the stats. The US had 63% possession, 556 passes with 86% passing accuracy both of which are very good. It was 1-0 US for the entire first half until stoppage time. We lacked opportunities in the attacking third or chose not to pull the trigger as we only had 7 shots (5 on target) out of the 63% possession and we gave up 23 shots (10 on target). So if anyone actually watched the game (and is logical and not a DA hater and an alarmist) I would like to hear what actually happened.
Also, what is the purpose of boys DA? Is it to produce an awesome national team or is it to prepare young men to play professionally? Because if it is the former then we are not there, but if it is the latter then it is doing a pretty good job as a lot of 16-21 year old guys are playing 1st team in Europe or are on their way there (like Gio Reyna who was just praised by Dortmund in an article 2 or 3 days ago).
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U S M N T
Oct 28, 2019 8:23:29 GMT -5
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Post by atv on Oct 28, 2019 8:23:29 GMT -5
I did not see the game. However, time of possession is good but obviously not always a clear indicator of results. If Senegal didn’t press high, then a lot of that US possession might have been just knocking the ball around the back.
An analogy in American football might basically be the wishbone offense. Not a perfect analogy but I want to speak to what I think may be the missing innovation piece in US Soccer. In college football, if you’re a team running the wishbone, you may have a commanding edge on possession. However, against good opponents limited offensive opportunities. Against opponents with lesser skilled personnel, the wishbone is dominating especially late in the game as it’s tiring to play defense the whole game. However, against better opponents the wishbone is one dimensional and limited in its ability to score quickly. Become predictable, one dimensional, and complacent and you’re going to have some bad beats.
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Post by soccerloafer on Oct 28, 2019 9:03:00 GMT -5
I did watch parts of the game. No creativity, no sense of urgency, not impressive. We did have a great chance to equalize down 1-2, but couldn't put it in. That may have changed things, because it quickly went from a potential 2-2 to down 1-3 in minutes.
There is no way our best 11 players should be humiliated by the best 11 from Senegal - a nation of just 16 million people. Something ain't right...
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U S M N T
Oct 28, 2019 11:22:21 GMT -5
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Post by oraclesfriend on Oct 28, 2019 11:22:21 GMT -5
I did not see the game. However, time of possession is good but obviously not always a clear indicator of results. If Senegal didn’t press high, then a lot of that US possession might have been just knocking the ball around the back. An analogy in American football might basically be the wishbone offense. Not a perfect analogy but I want to speak to what I think may be the missing innovation piece in US Soccer. In college football, if you’re a team running the wishbone, you may have a commanding edge on possession. However, against good opponents limited offensive opportunities. Against opponents with lesser skilled personnel, the wishbone is dominating especially late in the game as it’s tiring to play defense the whole game. However, against better opponents the wishbone is one dimensional and limited in its ability to score quickly. Become predictable, one dimensional, and complacent and you’re going to have some bad beats. I am aware of what possession does and doesn't do and why we might have had possession but did not score. As I said we only created 7 shots despite our commanding edge in possession. What I was looking for was a statement about WHY we created so few chances despite the edge in possession and also why we gave up 23 shots (10 on target) despite that edge. I am not sure that American football is a good analogy with the wishbone simply due to the fact that in American football you cannot score except on offense (turnovers aside). I have never believed in time of possession having ANY relevance in American football but I believe in has some relevance in soccer. You are correct that the possession could be all kicking the ball the back. However we could have also been like Spain vs Russia in the World Cup...kicking it around in the offensive third for FOREVER but waiting for the other team to roll out the red carpet to the goal rather than actually creating opportunities. Additionally we cannot put this all on the attacking players since we gave up 4 goals. What was the defense's issue?
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U S M N T
Oct 28, 2019 13:08:00 GMT -5
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Post by krazykickers on Oct 28, 2019 13:08:00 GMT -5
I watched the entire game on FS1. It was horrible. Absolutely horrible. Senegal totally outplayed the US in every area but especially that right side and the middle. Some bright spots from #13 who at least never took a play off. Terrible performance overall.
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U S M N T
Oct 28, 2019 14:08:04 GMT -5
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Post by atv on Oct 28, 2019 14:08:04 GMT -5
Your right bad analogy let me try again....
American Football - lots of different philosophies and innovative strategies
American Basketball- lots of different philosophies and innovative strategies
American Soccer (Development Academy and USMNT) - Mandate the same philosophy and stifle innovation so that everyone plays the same way.
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U S M N T
Oct 28, 2019 14:18:51 GMT -5
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atv likes this
Post by oraclesfriend on Oct 28, 2019 14:18:51 GMT -5
Your right bad analogy let me try again.... American Football - lots of different philosophies and innovative strategies American Basketball- lots of different philosophies and innovative strategies American Soccer (Development Academy and USMNT) - Mandate the same philosophy and stifle innovation so that everyone plays the same way. This made me laugh, but American football was pretty much lacking innovation for a long time too. Not a basketball person so no idea there.
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Post by diceshooter on Oct 28, 2019 14:25:05 GMT -5
What I saw:
Most of the US passes were in the defensive third, defenders passing to defenders or to players who had their backs to the goal and didn't turn. Senegal was content to allow us to possess far away from the goal. Senegal was more aggressive in the tackle and more physical, and one U. S. player was especially overmatched and began to give the ball away nearly every time he touched it.
The 6 and the 8 were physically overmatched throughout, unable to turn, and created few chances for the attacking four players. The defenders held up until late in the match, when the U. S. was pushing forward more looking for a goal. Senegal punished the US mistakes in the second half.
IMO, the biggest problem was the midfield. Others have different opinions.
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Post by soccerloafer on Oct 28, 2019 14:35:36 GMT -5
What I saw: Most of the US passes were in the defensive third, defenders passing to defenders or to players who had their backs to the goal and didn't turn. Senegal was content to allow us to possess far away from the goal. Senegal was more aggressive in the tackle and more physical, and one U. S. player was especially overmatched and began to give the ball away nearly every time he touched it. The 6 and the 8 were physically overmatched throughout, unable to turn, and created few chances for the attacking four players. The defenders held up until late in the match, when the U. S. was pushing forward more looking for a goal. Senegal punished the US mistakes in the second half. IMO, the biggest problem was the midfield. Others have different opinions. Generally agree that defenders were not the primary issue. Tough to defend effectively while retreating at speed outnumbered 6 to 4. The last goal was a defensive miscue, CB misjudged a long lofted ball and had to pull down the attacker for a straight red. World class free kick for the goal, Brad Guzan would not have stopped.
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Post by Strikermom on Oct 28, 2019 14:52:36 GMT -5
I watched the 2nd half, and Senegal was ready for the US. No creativity, same movements. When the US player got a straight red, that was the end. The ensuing free kick was a bullet that could not be stopped, and then the 4th goal was just sad. Senegal was not even supposed to be there, another African team got disqualified, and they were next up. It was pitiful.
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U S M N T
Oct 28, 2019 20:08:57 GMT -5
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Post by soccerparent02 on Oct 28, 2019 20:08:57 GMT -5
I watched the game. We looked awful overall. Senegal dominated the attack part of the game. As one poster put it, DA has the thought everyone should play the same, there is only one correct curriculum, in hindsight there is only one result mostly, lose. Its fortunate for us the USA is a host team for the next WC.
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U S M N T
Oct 28, 2019 20:56:28 GMT -5
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Post by Soccerhouse on Oct 28, 2019 20:56:28 GMT -5
Well - lets hope they turn it around and get 2 wins. Going to be very hard.
But what most have said is 100% dead on - not encouraging clubs and teams to play different styles of play in a country of This size makes no sense.
I like and live for a unified club philosophy as well - but you have to adapt to your personal and change your style based upon how your being played.
I used to take jabs at the american style of play - hard work and run around like a crazy person and just out work your opponent. Kind of miss the american way of just being gritty.
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Post by Futsal Gawdess on Oct 28, 2019 21:46:54 GMT -5
Most of what others have states is 100% spot on. There were times we were lethargic, other times we couldn't string passes together. We didn't have Bradley(joke) so as you
- We were lethargic and uninspiring with our play; - At times, it looked like we were allergic to stringing passes together; - No Bradley(jk) so our midfield was so porous and ineffective; - A non-existent midfield, allowed them to push more forward; - No halftime adjustments by the coaching staff, think right side changes, hmmm; - Lack of creativity, originality, I mean, this is the WC, bring it or go home; - Not accounting for Senegal's speed and playing too high, leaving yourself vulnerable in the back. Errors they took advantage of every single time.
Where I disagree is in not putting any blame on the defensive back 4. In trying to remember the goals scored against the US, I don't recall one, not one that I could say, whao that was a phenomenal play, dribble, shot etc. Yes the 4th goal was a screamer into the back of the net, but again, caused by a fool-hardy play by the defender resulting in a free kick right outside the box and a sending off. Sometimes, seeing is believing, so check out this highlight that shows the breakdown of the back line. You see them not recovering, playing too high, etc.
The question at hand is, are the figure heads at US Soccer capable of finding the root cause of the issues ailing the USMNT eco-system, do they have a solution and finally, will they be able to implement it in time for the next WC at whatever age? Remember, these U17s will be about 24 years old when we HOST the 2026 WC
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Post by diceshooter on Oct 29, 2019 8:05:21 GMT -5
The question at hand is, are the figure heads at US Soccer capable of finding the root cause of the issues ailing the USMNT eco-system, do they have a solution and finally, will they be able to implement it in time for the next WC at whatever age? Remember, these U17s will be about 24 years old when we HOST the 2026 WC FG, that depends on whether these "figureheads" have that as a goal. The federation IS having resounding success, it just isn't in the area that you want. On field results may be blah, but the fed is making money. If you look at what the federation has done over the last 20 years, you will not get agreement as to whether the federation has succeeded in making things better on the field. However, if you ask whether they have succeeded financially, the answer is unequivocally, "yes." They have had runaway success in making money through SUM. Some would also argue that, as it pertains to youth, the federation is nearing the end of a project where they have pushed the best youth players to play for MLS clubs, and are now allowing only those clubs to receive compensation for developed players. So, whether or not the youth teams on the field are successful, on the business side the youth national teams are at the beginning of a boom for MLS, who is the federation's partner in SUM. And I will add this--the players on the U17 team are not as bad as people are claiming, but they likewise are not as good (yet) as many touted them to be. Development is a process, and this experience at the tournament is part of the process. Some will grow from this experience, some won't.
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Post by Soccerhouse on Nov 1, 2019 11:47:54 GMT -5
only watched the highlights of the japan and senegal game, but the effort on the 2nd goal by Balde (sub) from Senegal tells the story -- our defender is loligagging back vs working his tail back to help out. Instead he gets beat to the ball. Goal 3 same defender, while it might not be his mark that scored, hes just standing watching and looks to be in a bad position. Goal 4 -- maybe it was unplayable in the air, but you can't let that ball bounce. period end of story. Same defender was involved with first goal as well.
Did they clean it up against Japan, highlights seem to be all of japan missing shots from the top of the box?
Senegal game shows the importance of playing against different styles of play -- bang and send it forward seems to work pretty good for them so far 2 wins in the group and will advance.
It looks like if US can win, 4 points should be enough to get a wild card to advance to the knock out stage. Might be possible with 2 ties also, but either way a win probably guarantees their fate.
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U S M N T
Nov 2, 2019 20:27:52 GMT -5
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Post by Soccerhouse on Nov 2, 2019 20:27:52 GMT -5
17s I assume lost 4-0
Embarrassing showing. Maybe the game is still on. I stopped the tape.
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U S M N T
Nov 2, 2019 21:33:15 GMT -5
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Post by oraclesfriend on Nov 2, 2019 21:33:15 GMT -5
17s I assume lost 4-0 Embarrassing showing. Maybe the game is still on. I stopped the tape. There were a few bright moments (i.e. nice save on the PK by our GK) but in general I thought it looked like the players spent the night out getting drunk and were all hungover. They were sluggish, unfocused and lacked any desire to win the game.
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U S M N T
Nov 2, 2019 21:59:56 GMT -5
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Post by gaprospects on Nov 2, 2019 21:59:56 GMT -5
I mean, I can't get too worked up over a game between a bunch of 17-year olds. I do think that one reason this team looked worse than the previous cycle was the lack of the residency program, previous U17 cycles had such a familiarity with each other that this group didn't have. Yeah, they had a bad world cup, but I think they're better off longterm for having spent that time with their respective clubs as opposed to the residency, if sacrificing the World Cup performance is the result of that, so be it.
Keep in mind some of the players that were not really apart of the last U17 cycle and were not invited to residency and instead spent those 2 years in MLS academies full time. That would include Alex Mendez, Uly Llanez, Sebastian Soto and Richie Ledezma.
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U S M N T
Nov 3, 2019 10:40:48 GMT -5
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Post by Soccerhouse on Nov 3, 2019 10:40:48 GMT -5
Still would be nice to see something positive regardless. Win a game, and advance to the knockout stage etc. It seems we’ve lost the American grit and at least high work ethic. Will be interesting to follow busio and Bello over the next few years.
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Post by footballer on Nov 3, 2019 15:39:05 GMT -5
Still would be nice to see something positive regardless. Win a game, and advance to the knockout stage etc. It seems we’ve lost the American grit and at least high work ethic. Will be interesting to follow busio and Bello over the next few years. I doubt we will be seeing any world class players coming from MLS or us soccer anytime soon other than those few that go and grow in Europe or other soccer environment. Us has a lot of potential but it will take time and proactive soccer people in charge. Bello and carleton are already usmnt, da, MLS players, and can play college if they decide to....which on all honesty are very good achievements however that's below average in comparison to the global soccer stage....pulisic's trajectory is towards world class, but us soccer, da or MLS cannot truly claim that because at critical periods of his career he was growing in the right environment. The soccer climate here needs to improve
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Post by atv on Nov 3, 2019 15:59:04 GMT -5
Spot on twitter post by Mike Woitalla (Soccer America)
"U.S. Soccer implemented the Chicago rule to "align our soccer philosophy throughout our national teams." It worked! The U-17s played as dismally and uninspired as the full national team."
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U S M N T
Nov 3, 2019 16:42:52 GMT -5
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Post by soccerparent02 on Nov 3, 2019 16:42:52 GMT -5
Love that quote...spot on!
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U S M N T
Nov 3, 2019 20:49:28 GMT -5
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Post by onekickpop on Nov 3, 2019 20:49:28 GMT -5
There was a time when ‘world class’. NBA players only came from the US. There was a time when ‘world class’ MLB players mostly came from the US. There was a time when US gymnasts were subpar.... Whatever the sport we need time to train and develop. I still think that simply taking 11 players and having a few training sessions before key games is not the way to build a team. We are still likely years away from truly being competitive at a world class level but I believe we have the ability to be just as competitive as anyone else. Spot on twitter post by Mike Woitalla (Soccer America) "U.S. Soccer implemented the Chicago rule to "align our soccer philosophy throughout our national teams." It worked! The U-17s played as dismally and uninspired as the full national team."
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Post by soccerparent02 on Nov 3, 2019 21:01:43 GMT -5
DA was supposed to do that. Every player taught same skills and style of play. The players who are the best of the best at exhibiting this type of play are then selected for camps. Next cut then next cut, etc., etc., until the final roster is selected. How's that working for the USMNT. DA has been a miserable failure. Losing to Trinidad and Tobago, Canada and our u17s losing to Senegal. Yet we continue to hear the defense of this system.
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U S M N T
Nov 3, 2019 21:16:09 GMT -5
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Post by footballer on Nov 3, 2019 21:16:09 GMT -5
There was a time when ‘world class’. NBA players only came from the US. There was a time when ‘world class’ MLB players mostly came from the US. There was a time when US gymnasts were subpar.... Whatever the sport we need time to train and develop. I still think that simply taking 11 players and having a few training sessions before key games is not the way to build a team. We are still likely years away from truly being competitive at a world class level but I believe we have the ability to be just as competitive as anyone else. Spot on twitter post by Mike Woitalla (Soccer America) "U.S. Soccer implemented the Chicago rule to "align our soccer philosophy throughout our national teams." It worked! The U-17s played as dismally and uninspired as the full national team." Those players, Ginobili, Dirk, yao ming, olahuwon atetokunbo etc or insert baseball player, all came to the us to grow as world class because they came to a true NBA or baseball environment. This is why pulisic is thriving. He went to europe. MLS and us soccer should be doing so much better.
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U S M N T
Nov 3, 2019 21:16:36 GMT -5
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Post by onekickpop on Nov 3, 2019 21:16:36 GMT -5
I did not watch the U17 game but we can’t discount the fact that those teams are likely playing better with better coaching. It happens. And if you roster a group that KNOW how to play as a team and trust each other the results will come.
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U S M N T
Nov 3, 2019 22:49:43 GMT -5
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Post by oraclesfriend on Nov 3, 2019 22:49:43 GMT -5
DA was supposed to do that. Every player taught same skills and style of play. The players who are the best of the best at exhibiting this type of play are then selected for camps. Next cut then next cut, etc., etc., until the final roster is selected. How's that working for the USMNT. DA has been a miserable failure. Losing to Trinidad and Tobago, Canada and our u17s losing to Senegal. Yet we continue to hear the defense of this system. U17's loss to Senegal is not looking like it was so shocking seeing as the Netherlands lost to them as well. Frankly the Concacaf region did terrible. Mexico was 1-1-1, Haiti lost all 3 as did Canada. US was second best at least drawing Japan. Part of the failure has to be the weak region that we inhabit. USMNT from the senior team on down seems to have some really good players but can't seem to get the best out of them. On the Pulisic thread it was mentioned that he has no one around him on the USA, but we have several guys starting in Europe on top division teams that play for USA. I don't think it is as much a lack of quality as it is poor tactical plan for the US. On the 17's there are guys that play in the MLS first teams like Bello and Busio who looked lost and slow and lacking energy playing for the US. Reyna did very little in the Netherlands game either. These guys have quality. They just don't show it when playing in the red white and blue.
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Post by soccerparent02 on Nov 3, 2019 22:55:46 GMT -5
Bello played a few games early for AU. He didn't play any towards end of season. AB has shown that he will spend for named players. Who has AU developed and brought in for the top team. Last I checked none. AC and GB are spot players. AC spent most of the year at AU2.
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