meh
Rec
Posts: 8
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Post by meh on Dec 13, 2023 10:43:36 GMT -5
I've had two kids (both under the age of 12, one boy, one girl) in academy soccer for the past 3-4 seasons, and we've done just about every tournament that has come our way.
One thing that I've noticed is that it's really common to see teams enter into the bottom division of the age bracket, and either stack the team with guest players, or flat-out enter their higher-skilled team in a lower division.
For a while, I just thought my kid and his team were really bad (which may or may not also be true) and left it at that but my daughter's team (u10) is pretty solid in the lowest division (win some, lose some, rarely have blowouts in either direction). However, at the end of this season, both of my kids teams just got slaughtered.
I'm somewhat used to it with my son's team but, this time, one of the teams they faced had three kids who were a part of an ODP, according to my son's coach (who claimed to have some affiliation, likely through refereeing). I also know that a Pre-MLS team at my son's age group got entered in second lowest division. I caught one of those games and just felt horrible for the other team. On the girls' side, it wasn't AS bad, but there were clearly a number of players that were playing down.
I get that, for some people, the only thing that matters is a win, and I could imagine a team needing a confidence boost and dropping down a level. In general, though, I don't understand how this is beneficial for anyone on either side of the ball. The more skilled team isn't going to gain anything meaningful from their experience, and the kids getting stomped certainly don't either.
Do the people who run these tournaments not have a way to validate that the team that is being entered into a division (especially the lower ones) actually needs to be there, or is this just a case of the honor-system failing?
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rotgg
Jr. Academy
Posts: 90
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Post by rotgg on Dec 13, 2023 11:14:38 GMT -5
this def happens alot
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Post by mamadona on Dec 13, 2023 13:09:09 GMT -5
Yeah it can be pretty bad. Even in small tournaments with only 1 or 2 divisions, it can be some uneven matchups. It gets a little better at U13 & up when it's easier for the tournament staff to verify the teams' level I suppose.
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Post by bogan on Dec 13, 2023 13:22:06 GMT -5
Yeah it can be pretty bad. Even in small tournaments with only 1 or 2 divisions, it can be some uneven matchups. It gets a little better at U13 & up when it's easier for the tournament staff to verify the teams' level I suppose. Agreed. When my son was young, I remember some really lopsided games. It got better as he got older. However, it didn’t entirely go away. |
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Post by DunwoodySoccerDad on Dec 13, 2023 13:27:54 GMT -5
I've had two kids (both under the age of 12, one boy, one girl) in academy soccer for the past 3-4 seasons, and we've done just about every tournament that has come our way. One thing that I've noticed is that it's really common to see teams enter into the bottom division of the age bracket, and either stack the team with guest players, or flat-out enter their higher-skilled team in a lower division. For a while, I just thought my kid and his team were really bad (which may or may not also be true) and left it at that but my daughter's team (u10) is pretty solid in the lowest division (win some, lose some, rarely have blowouts in either direction). However, at the end of this season, both of my kids teams just got slaughtered. I'm somewhat used to it with my son's team but, this time, one of the teams they faced had three kids who were a part of an ODP, according to my son's coach (who claimed to have some affiliation, likely through refereeing). I also know that a Pre-MLS team at my son's age group got entered in second lowest division. I caught one of those games and just felt horrible for the other team. On the girls' side, it wasn't AS bad, but there were clearly a number of players that were playing down. I get that, for some people, the only thing that matters is a win, and I could imagine a team needing a confidence boost and dropping down a level. In general, though, I don't understand how this is beneficial for anyone on either side of the ball. The more skilled team isn't going to gain anything meaningful from their experience, and the kids getting stomped certainly don't either. Do the people who run these tournaments not have a way to validate that the team that is being entered into a division (especially the lower ones) actually needs to be there, or is this just a case of the honor-system failing? This isn’t as intentional as you may think because it happens a lot more often at the academy age groups (U12 and below) because it’s much more difficult to gauge how good those teams are relative to each other. In the select ages (U13 and up), teams are in a league of some kind and tournament directors can more easily find the results of their games, the level of league they play in, etc. You still see some blowouts at older age groups but sometimes they’re unavoidable, typically because a lack of registered teams produces fewer divisions (or just one). |
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Post by Topline Soccer on Dec 13, 2023 15:10:45 GMT -5
I think the main problems for getting evenly seeded teams at tournaments are below:
1. Are there enough teams in each age group? If there are 3 divisions for an age group it will be more evenly contested then 2 divisions. If there is 6 divisions it should lead to the most fairly played games. Most big clubs have 5+ teams in each age group and it spreads out the talent more evenly then in just 2-3 divisions.
2. Guest players. If you bring 2-3 talented guest players on any team it will change the dynamic. When you put these dynamic guest players into a lower division bracket it will cause a lot of problems for the opponents.
3. Trophies. A team may have had a season without any championships or medals. They play down to win a medal and feel like it was a successful season even though it was against lesser opposition.
Let me know if I missed any. Thanks!
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Post by terimakasih12 on Dec 14, 2023 9:29:29 GMT -5
I think the main problems for getting evenly seeded teams at tournaments are below: 1. Are there enough teams in each age group? If there are 3 divisions for an age group it will be more evenly contested then 2 divisions. If there is 6 divisions it should lead to the most fairly played games. Most big clubs have 5+ teams in each age group and it spreads out the talent more evenly then in just 2-3 divisions. 2. Guest players. If you bring 2-3 talented guest players on any team it will change the dynamic. When you put these dynamic guest players into a lower division bracket it will cause a lot of problems for the opponents. 3. Trophies. A team may have had a season without any championships or medals. They play down to win a medal and feel like it was a successful season even though it was against lesser opposition. Let me know if I missed any. Thanks! Great points. I’d add for number three that clubs want to post their championship and trophy pics on instagram. Gotta get new parents interested in shelling out thousands of dollars and keep current parents convinced their money is well spent. Doesn’t matter if the team won the sixth division in U-12, those kids are CHAMPIONS and will all likely play for Barcelona or OL Reign by the time they are 22. 😀 |
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Post by lajolla39 on Dec 14, 2023 10:18:29 GMT -5
Sometimes really good players just like to play.
Sometimes really good players want to play with their friends from school + on the same team.
Sometimes clubs can't find enough committed 3rd and 4th team players for a tournament so they open it up to whoever in the age group that wants to play. The ones that volunteer are usually the ones most dedicated to playing soccer + also good at playing soccer.
Sometimes clubs are chasing medals.
If you have a kid on a lower level team don't get upset when they're getting worked by better players. Think of it as a learning experience. Now they know what it takes to play on a better team.
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Post by soccerparent02 on Dec 14, 2023 13:35:37 GMT -5
As has been said, bigger tournaments have more age group divisions. It was our experience at younger ages in Academy, our Coach put (requested) our kids play in the top division. He knew they would not get better playing against competition not at their level or even a litgle better. This was a smaller club. Once they hit u13 Select, half of the team went to Big 5 teams and ultimately all of this group that went to the Big 5 clubs played college or were offered for college. Ultimately players and families have to decide what they are looking for in soccer in the end. Good luck on that path as it will go by fast.
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thip
Jr. Academy
Posts: 33
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Post by thip on Dec 14, 2023 21:29:21 GMT -5
I will add that many times in academy I would register my team and request for top bracket. I didn’t train out of one of the big name Atl clubs so we would get put in a second tier or lower division. I would tell the tournament director that we’ll win every game by 5+ goals. They didn’t care. Many local Atl tournaments do this all the time. Just saying it’s not always a team requesting a lower division.
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