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Post by TheMadOx on Dec 4, 2017 11:34:53 GMT -5
#5 was dirty coming in like that...hope they worked it out and red carded him for his actions.
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Post by Keeper on Dec 4, 2017 15:31:57 GMT -5
Wow that was terrible!
So quickly looking this game up Concorde had 4 players receiving cards, 3 yellows for Unsporting Behavior and then the 4th was the red card ejection while UFA was only given the red card for the one player. Two ways of taking this is that the Ref was letting UFA get away with more calls then Concorde, some home cooking playing at Pinckneyville. Or Concorde was playing a little to physical and it finally blew up in their face with the fight. It would be interesting to know when those cards were handed out, pre or post fight. This seems to be one of the few games that ended close in score for UFA as they went unbeaten in C1.
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Post by krazykickers on Dec 4, 2017 15:41:19 GMT -5
What League was this?
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Post by rifle on Dec 5, 2017 7:29:41 GMT -5
Testosterone poisoning.
Hard to believe no punishment for #5 even when this got reviewed after the fact.
Sorry that I'm such a juvenile... but the woman saying "whaaaat" at 0:42 has me rolling.
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Post by Soccerhouse on Dec 5, 2017 8:10:56 GMT -5
I haven't heard anything Eagles agreement with UFA being terminated, wouldn't doubt it. Its a shame if so, but it was ran like a rec club - kids always wore different uniforms etc, coaches and teams showing up at the wrong times for games or not showing at all.
They have the right idea though, try to offer club soccer at a discount - The original "merger" with norcross was more about access to players than anything else. Thats really it.
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Post by hotspur1 on Dec 5, 2017 8:17:27 GMT -5
Wow, that was ugly. #5 should have been removed, if not by the ref then definitely by coach. And, assuming no later retaliation, kudos to Concorde. I’ve seen players catch flying elbows in retaliation for much less.
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Post by slickdaddy96 on Dec 5, 2017 12:27:07 GMT -5
My son plays in U12, and a UFA-Norcross kid got a straight red card this weekend in their tournament for punching a kid on my son's team he was guest playing on.
Every time we play UFA especially the Norcross location teams their kids act like they have chips on their shoulders, they play thuggish, cheap shots, lots of cussing, and their parents applaud it and condone it, shouting their own profanities in Spanish to their kids encouraging such behaviour.
The coaches for UFA either are looking the other way or are condoning it through their whole organization at least at the Norcross location. I can't stand my kid's team playing them anymore. There is always some altercation on the field due to their player's behaviors or on the sideline with their parents every time his team plays them.
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Post by slickdaddy96 on Dec 5, 2017 12:30:06 GMT -5
Wow that was terrible! So quickly looking this game up Concorde had 4 players receiving cards, 3 yellows for Unsporting Behavior and then the 4th was the red card ejection while UFA was only given the red card for the one player. Two ways of taking this is that the Ref was letting UFA get away with more calls then Concorde, some home cooking playing at Pinckneyville. Or Concorde was playing a little to physical and it finally blew up in their face with the fight. It would be interesting to know when those cards were handed out, pre or post fight. This seems to be one of the few games that ended close in score for UFA as they went unbeaten in C1. There is definitely home cooking going on at Pinckneyville every time my kid's team plays there. They get away with everything, and our kids breath on a player, they flop and we get called for every foul even when it wasn't, along with the offside goals the UFA teams score when the Refs never raise the flag.
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Post by Futsal Gawdess on Dec 5, 2017 12:50:36 GMT -5
In viewing the video it definitely looks incendiary, however folks need to look at the root cause of this and many other issues within games today. One primary thing that helps facilitate things to this level are the adults on field. The coaches and good lord the parents. I've been at games where I truly thought the world must be coming to an end if team A or B didn't win. You hear some truly ugly things from parents, fans and of course other players. Sometimes, it's disguised by saying it in languages other than English. I try never to lambaste on the kids because this is learned behavior. Parents, dial down your intensity. At the end of the day or 90 minutes it is still just a game and at best you get a piece of tin that says your champions. I've heard from my kids teammates statements like "my mom/dad really want's us to beat this team" or "my parents can't stand the parents/players for this team" Regardless of what started the fight or the animosity, we as parents and fans should be cheering and not jeering, supporting and not putting down and for the love of God please don't engage or attack the referees. We have a severe shortage of referees for one reason - The Fans. A mom shared a video with me today of a referee and a parent. I hope we use this as a moment to realize the power and impact we can have on the game.
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Post by slickdaddy96 on Dec 5, 2017 14:14:27 GMT -5
In viewing the video it definitely looks incendiary, however folks need to look at the root cause of this and many other issues within games today. One primary thing that helps facilitate things to this level are the adults on field. The coaches and good lord the parents. I've been at games where I truly thought the world must be coming to an end if team A or B didn't win. You hear some truly ugly things from parents, fans and of course other players. Sometimes, it's disguised by saying it in languages other than English. I try never to lambaste on the kids because this is learned behavior. Parents, dial down your intensity. At the end of the day or 90 minutes it is still just a game and at best you get a piece of tin that says your champions. I've heard from my kids teammates statements like "my mom/dad really want's us to beat this team" or "my parents can't stand the parents/players for this team" Regardless of what started the fight or the animosity, we as parents and fans should be cheering and not jeering, supporting and not putting down and for the love of God please don't engage or attack the referees. We have a severe shortage of referees for one reason - The Fans. A mom shared a video with me today of a referee and a parent. I hope we use this as a moment to realize the power and impact we can have on the game. I would never berate the referee like that, but the referees do need to realize (especially the young ones that play in upper age groups at the same club they are refereeing for) that bias is real even if they don't want to admit it. I've seen "home cooking" from younger referees all the time at the Academy level, where it wasn't being called fairly both ways. Some of that home cooking has lead to incidents on the field where chippy fouls, and aggression ends up taking place because the lack of the referee calling the game down the middle. I have been an AR several times before as well in games where my own kid is playing in when they need help and missing an AR. As much as I would love to not call things, I have to do a duty to call it right down the middle (offsides, ball in/out, etc...) even if my own team's parents and my own kid don't like the call. It's about ethics of the job. There are plenty of younger referees that need to think about that when refereeing games. Just my opinion though...
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Post by Futsal Gawdess on Dec 5, 2017 14:48:04 GMT -5
True but experience is usually a key factor in ensuring referees get better. If we keep catcalling and berating these young referees we push them out of the game and a new fresh batch comes in with the same issue, lack of experience. Sometimes it's not even 'home cooking' as you call it but just plain inexperience. I would say let the coach handle with the hosting club, referee assignor or at the very least have the coach speak with the ref(with respect).
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Post by Keeperkeeper on Dec 5, 2017 19:28:14 GMT -5
I’m in agreement with Futsal Gawdess on this one. We have to be careful in judging a partial video (although #5’s behavior was a little excessive). That being said, kids do say some awful things to each other on the field (e.g., racial slurs, etc) that leads to poor behavior on the field. And, there is no one club that is above another in that behavior, especially when playing rivals. One year, we had a physical incident with a Concorde player. Another year it was a GSA player that was overly physical in a game. I’ve seen young players at UFA do unsportsmanlike things as well. I do know that clubs like UFA have policies in place for behavior like that seen in the video, and Im sure that once Norcross’ director sees the video and hears the explanation, the players will face some penalties.
As for “home cooking,” there really is no such thing. Referees don’t plot and plan to allow the home team to win. I’ve been at too many home games at my own club where I wish there was a little home cooking so that our team could actually get some calls in our favor 😂. Some referees don’t play at the club where they referee, nor are they interested in giving (or instructed to give) the home team an advantage. I’ve got two kids who referee for clubs other than their own. Referees are human beings. They make mistakes. They miss calls. They are tired (because there are just not enough referees). We, as parents, often see the game they way we want to, and we are perfect armchair referees (and analysts) on the sidelines who see every offside and foul. And, we have video replay if we are recording games. I’ve been upset with calls (especially those that seemingly give us a loss instead of a tie or win). I’ve had a kid badly injured with no call or yellow card (and we were the home team). Sometimes I think the referee needs to call the game better, but at the end of the day, I am not out there week after week dealing with angry parents, players, and/or coaches.
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Post by surgesoccer on Dec 6, 2017 10:25:55 GMT -5
I agree with Keeperkeeper. My son's team has played many games where it seems the calls were going for the home team and against us. Bias? Not a bit. These ref's, kids on up to adults, have no reason to be biased. Nothing in it for them. And regardless of who wins they will still call games the next week. IF you're seeing bias then the problem is internal.
Parents, and coaches, intimidating ref's makes the situation worse as the ref goes from being confident to worrying more about making mistakes.
As a team manager, in August I send a message to all parent's to remember that while their child is on the field learning the game of soccer, the ref's on the field in most cases are on the field learning how to be better ref's. Let them make their mistakes and learn from them, not be berated because they missed a foul or called ball out of bounds on the wrong team.
Coaches and parents need to step up and take control. If your kid is out of control, tell the coach to sit them down. I'm amazed that #5 's parents did not pull him immediately out of the game. If my son punched another player he would be done for the season as far as playing in games. I'd let him train but no way would he see the field for a long time.
And if Georgia soccer doesn't suspend #5, they are just as much at fault. I don't need to see what happened before or after to know that throwing a punch is an immediate suspension, from the game and really multiple games.
It's time parent's start watching games as parents and not as fans.
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Post by Futsal Gawdess on Dec 6, 2017 11:03:26 GMT -5
I agree with Keeperkeeper. My son's team has played many games where it seems the calls were going for the home team and against us. Bias? Not a bit. These ref's, kids on up to adults, have no reason to be biased. Nothing in it for them. And regardless of who wins they will still call games the next week. IF you're seeing bias then the problem is internal. Parents, and coaches, intimidating ref's makes the situation worse as the ref goes from being confident to worrying more about making mistakes. As a team manager, in August I send a message to all parent's to remember that while their child is on the field learning the game of soccer, the ref's on the field in most cases are on the field learning how to be better ref's. Let them make their mistakes and learn from them, not be berated because they missed a foul or called ball out of bounds on the wrong team. Coaches and parents need to step up and take control. If your kid is out of control, tell the coach to sit them down. I'm amazed that #5 's parents did not pull him immediately out of the game. If my son punched another player he would be done for the season as far as playing in games. I'd let him train but no way would he see the field for a long time. And if Georgia soccer doesn't suspend #5, they are just as much at fault. I don't need to see what happened before or after to know that throwing a punch is an immediate suspension, from the game and really multiple games. It's time parent's start watching games as parents and not as fans. Couldn't have said it any better...
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Post by jash on Dec 6, 2017 11:17:19 GMT -5
I agree with Keeperkeeper. My son's team has played many games where it seems the calls were going for the home team and against us. Bias? Not a bit. These ref's, kids on up to adults, have no reason to be biased. Nothing in it for them. And regardless of who wins they will still call games the next week. IF you're seeing bias then the problem is internal. Overall I agree with everything you said but watching statistics I do have some reason to believe there may be referee bias in some clubs. Last season, for example, KSA earned 104 points in 46 home games but only 55 points in 46 away games. You expect some variance, and obviously there could be other factors, but that's a massive discrepancy (almost double). What can reasonably explain that? When you see something that out of the ordinary, I don't think it's unreasonable to ask what percentage of assigned refs for KSA home games are current or former players at the club, or other people with direct club affiliations. Maybe it really is luck or an anomaly, or maybe not. But it's worth looking. I say all this as the parent of a player who never played a single game against KSA, so this is not in any way a vendetta. And the only time I truly believed my child's team faced home cooking turned out to be true: a board member at a club I will not name who was also a referee for the club manipulated the schedule to get himself assigned as a referee for his child's game, against us. He was as awful as you would expect someone who would do that to be, and he was discovered and reported, though I don't know if there were any consequences. All this to say, 99% of the time you're right and any bias we see in referees is simply a result of humans who are not perfect making mistakes (as should be expected) and the projection of our OWN bias onto those situations. I fully admit to feeling this way during games more than a few times over the years, but honest reflection generally cleared that right up :-) EDIT: brought stats up to date for KSA. Was 102 in 44 home, 55 in 44 away. Updated to 104 in 46 home, 55 in 46 away.
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Post by Keeper on Dec 6, 2017 13:10:08 GMT -5
Just some background to why Georgia Soccer didn't do anything to #5, they couldn't. They can't punish a player that wasn't shown a card or written up by the Referees. Theres just no precedents or rules for it. The only thing that could have happened is if someone at Ufa was shown this video and punished him from within the club like deactivating his player pass for breaking club rules.
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Post by Keeper on Dec 6, 2017 14:06:23 GMT -5
Just some background to why Georgia Soccer didn't do anything to #5, they couldn't. They can't punish a player that wasn't shown a card or written up by the Referees. Theres just no precedents or rules for it. The only thing that could have happened is if someone at Ufa was shown this video and punished him from within the club like deactivating his player pass for breaking club rules. Makes good sense as per rules. Only problem is the rules may not have kept up with technology and the world at large. Imagine a kid at school took a few swings like this at a kid in a classroom at school. Teacher (aka ref) didn’t see it or didn’t do anything. But video like this existed and made it to principal (aka GA Soccer). Principal says “sorry, teacher didn’t do anything with it or mention it, so I can’t do anything. Those are the rules”. That would go over like a lead balloon and the video would be on the local news in a day or two and people would get fired. Oh I completely get it but it's the ass-backwardsness that is Ga Soccer. These are the same people that can't define if players can have duplicate numbers or not, or have a Referee Mentoring program even though they have a shortage. Plus all the other random things they fail at.
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Post by Soccerhouse on Dec 6, 2017 23:11:25 GMT -5
Ouch. What age? Which ufa location?
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Post by Soccerhouse on Dec 7, 2017 10:20:40 GMT -5
UFA-Norcross is a 100% different club then when TA ran the show. Too bad, it used to be a great mid size club. Greed (and the perceived need to be huge) has really ruined it.
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Post by Keeper on Dec 7, 2017 14:20:06 GMT -5
UFA-Norcross is a 100% different club then when TA ran the show. Too bad, it used to be a great mid size club. Greed (and the perceived need to be huge) has really ruined it. Just another reason why mega mergers have ruined local soccer. I know TA was looking for a way out but the sellout to ufa just ruined Norcross. Same way as CS selling Tophat to NASA.
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Post by Futsal Gawdess on Dec 7, 2017 15:40:38 GMT -5
UFA-Norcross is a 100% different club then when TA ran the show. Too bad, it used to be a great mid size club. Greed (and the perceived need to be huge) has really ruined it. TA was the one behind the merger with Forsyth and this was before he left for AU. Plus since they didn't have ECNL and with long term plans of DA and all they felt they would have a better chance of getting a DA/ECNL, etc. if the clubs merged to take on the more established clubs like a CF. Also the long term discussions have included possibly making the Forsyth location potentially a Girls Academy like Tophat used to be and making Norcross the Boys Academy. The last part I believe is way down the line. However, I do agree that the Norcross location has gone down, especially in numbers. Which is interesting because conversely the Forsyth location is growing in numbers.
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Post by 04gparent on Dec 7, 2017 16:30:21 GMT -5
UFA-Norcross is a 100% different club then when TA ran the show. Too bad, it used to be a great mid size club. Greed (and the perceived need to be huge) has really ruined it. Just another reason why mega mergers have ruined local soccer. I know TA was looking for a way out but the sellout to ufa just ruined Norcross. Same way as CS selling Tophat to NASA. Hey JumpJump311... From your perspective how has the NASA TH merger hurt TH? Or for that matter how has it hurt NASA girls?
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Post by Keeper on Dec 7, 2017 23:07:33 GMT -5
Just another reason why mega mergers have ruined local soccer. I know TA was looking for a way out but the sellout to ufa just ruined Norcross. Same way as CS selling Tophat to NASA. Hey JumpJump311... From your perspective how has the NASA TH merger hurt TH? Or for that matter how has it hurt NASA girls? Tophat was the premier girls program in Georgia. From top to bottom they had a coaching philosophy, they all played the same way and there was a unique style that was Tophat. All that is pretty much gone in the Academy program, even the younger Athena teams have lost that with all the movement between Quest and Metro North. Nasa has all these top girls playing together now but they're not Hatters like the old days. As someone who's been around Atlanta soccer for nearly 40 years it's just another lost program. The NASA merger did the same to the old United/Canterbury teams that were so much different then the Metro North teams.
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Post by 04gparent on Dec 8, 2017 12:06:21 GMT -5
Hey JumpJump311... From your perspective how has the NASA TH merger hurt TH? Or for that matter how has it hurt NASA girls? Tophat was the premier girls program in Georgia. From top to bottom they had a coaching philosophy, they all played the same way and there was a unique style that was Tophat. All that is pretty much gone in the Academy program, even the younger Athena teams have lost that with all the movement between Quest and Metro North. Nasa has all these top girls playing together now but they're not Hatters like the old days. As someone who's been around Atlanta soccer for nearly 40 years it's just another lost program. The NASA merger did the same to the old United/Canterbury teams that were so much different then the Metro North teams. Thanks for your response and perspective... From what I can see all locations are still growing (number of girls)... That is different than what happened at Norcross. Now from a style of play perspective, I agree that it is more challenging that people think to promote/disperse a certain playing style to multiple parks and locations. I see the TH buckhead location play often and the style of play is there... I havent seen TH North (old nasa location) play so I cant speak to it...
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Post by jack4343 on Dec 9, 2017 18:19:02 GMT -5
The coaches for UFA either are looking the other way or are condoning it through their whole organization at least at the Norcross location. I can't stand my kid's team playing them anymore. There is always some altercation on the field due to their player's behaviors or on the sideline with their parents every time his team plays them. That's a mighty broad brush you are using to dump on a whole club there. I have had two children come through the ranks at Norcross and if anything, I'd say they weren't taught to be aggressive enough compared to surrounding clubs.
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Post by surgesoccer on Dec 10, 2017 1:24:12 GMT -5
My son plays has played soccer at UFA Norcross for 4.5 years. Never in that time have we had a coach that coaches players to be aggressive or dirty. So I have to disagree with anyone saying that as an organization UFA Norcross condones or endorses aggressive or dirty play. And can't say I've seen UFA parent's act any differently, as a whole, than other clubs. Every club has parent's that act poorly at one time or another.
I could call out another club we played 5 times last year that in my mind crosses the line from aggressive to dirty. Is it the club or the coach? Only know the experience with the other club from the team we played a lot, so while I think the team plays dirty I'm not ready to place the label win the entire club.
We played another club that had a player grab the ball and punt it off the field after we scored a goal. Then when down by 4 goals started fouling like crazy. Kid was never carded or sat down by the coach. Once again is it the club or the coach? And what was the parent thinking letting them continue to play
I tend to believe that in most cases its the coach, not the club, that determines what is allowed. For kids and parents. We had a player last year get a red card. The next day we had a game and that player could have played but the coach chose to sit him down for a game. He told the player that it was a good time to think about how to handle himself on the field. Good lesson. It wasn't a club decision, it was the coach.
Clubs should dictate to their coaches what is acceptable types of behavior and a set of guidelines for dealing with issues. The coach should then enforce behavior standards on the team and that includes parents. Clubs like to boast that they are teaching kids about more than soccer, they are teaching them life skills. They need to put action behind their words.
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Post by Keeper on Dec 10, 2017 17:21:23 GMT -5
We had a player last year get a red card. The next day we had a game and that player could have played but the coach chose to sit him down for a game. He told the player that it was a good time to think about how to handle himself on the field. Good lesson. It wasn't a club decision, it was the coach. Clubs should dictate to their coaches what is acceptable types of behavior and a set of guidelines for dealing with issues. The coach should then enforce behavior standards on the team and that includes parents. Clubs like to boast that they are teaching kids about more than soccer, they are teaching them life skills. They need to put action behind their words. Just FYI, all Red cards come with a minimum one game/next game suspension so it wasn't the coach that benched him, it was Ga Soccer. All players Red carded have to sit the next game on the bench and have the Ref note that they were there and served their suspension.
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Post by surgesoccer on Dec 11, 2017 11:58:17 GMT -5
JumpJumpKeep311 This wasn't a Classic game it was Academy. The player could have played the next day.
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Post by Keeper on Dec 11, 2017 14:13:11 GMT -5
Doesn't matter if it's Acadmey, Rec, Classic or Athena, a red card is a Red card. All Red cards have to be submitted to GA Soccer by the center Ref. So unless the Ref didn't report it the player has to sit their next game.
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Post by slickdaddy96 on Dec 13, 2017 15:36:43 GMT -5
Doesn't matter if it's Acadmey, Rec, Classic or Athena, a red card is a Red card. All Red cards have to be submitted to GA Soccer by the center Ref. So unless the Ref didn't report it the player has to sit their next game. While I agree that should be the case, unless it is an Academy game within a sanctioned tournament, all Academy games are friendlies set up by the clubs. Even if a red card was reported to GA Soccer, there is no enforcement mechanism in place to sit an Academy player in the next game played except by the honor system of that player, coach, or club. The reason is GA Soccer doesn't set Academy schedules nor does it have any mechanism to assign a red card to a player that is able to be looked up for Academy games, unlike Select games. Believe me i know this, I've seen a few kids not sit a game after an Academy game red card over the years as long as it was not a tournament.
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