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Post by Futsal Gawdess on Mar 2, 2019 13:01:44 GMT -5
Glad this is being brought back to the local clubs to handle as they see fit for their players and families. However, the travel portion is what bothers me. If I remember correctly, Jacksonville to Miami is close to 350 miles. How will that work, considering we're talking about 11-12 year olds aka 6th graders...FG
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Mar 2, 2019 13:54:09 GMT -5
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Post by oraclesfriend on Mar 2, 2019 13:54:09 GMT -5
Glad this is being brought back to the local clubs to handle as they see fit for their players and families. However, the travel portion is what bothers me. If I remember correctly, Jacksonville to Miami is close to 350 miles. How will that work, considering we're talking about 11-12 year olds aka 6th graders...FG You are correct on the distance between Jax and Miami. It is about a 5 hour drive one way. Florida's population is not like Georgia's. Here we are concentrated within 1-1.5 hours of Atlanta (depending on time of day/traffic). Their major population centers are spread out. You have the megalopolis of Palm Beach to Miami (about the same distance as our Atlanta clubs) then you have Tampa area, Orlando area and Jax area. There are not enough people in those areas to have a large quantity of highly Elite teams. They pretty much HAVE to play Orlando vs PB/Miami teams, Tampa vs Jax, Jax vs PB/Miami, Orlando vs Jax, etc. The thing is that they will have plenty of matches that are reasonably close. Orlando to Tampa and Orlando and Jax are close (1.5 hrs or less). PB to Miami is close. Even PB to Orlando isn't bad. They will be fine. What we need to remember is that we are SO LUCKY to have so many high quality teams close by. This is not the norm in most of the country.
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Mar 2, 2019 14:04:10 GMT -5
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Post by atlfutboldad on Mar 2, 2019 14:04:10 GMT -5
I think parents are not drinking the ECNL koolaid so much. You dont have to travel to Florida every other weekend to play crappy teams snd then fly to Phoenix and California for tournaments just so your kid can play soccer at GS. TH second team is probably good enough to compete in the NL which has less travel than ECNL. I would agree that ECNL is not at all the level it’s made out to be but the fact is if you have a child who wants to play college just look at the recent college commitment cycle ALL the girls come from either ECNL or DA. The college coaches and recruiters use it as their first tool when even considering to evaualte a player. While not at the level it's cracked up to be at the youngest ages, from what i have witnessed, generally ECNL >> NL. The top NL team or 2 in state can compete though, but would probably lose 4 out of 5. The exception locally being 06 CF2/SSA. The biggest difference is that most of the best kids want to be on the ECNL/DA teams (or their parents want them to), so they're generally better than most of the other teams in their age group. Im surprised that SSA 06 ECNL team hasn't attracted the best players from Impact, Smyrna, etc.
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Mar 2, 2019 17:03:05 GMT -5
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Post by ultimatedad on Mar 2, 2019 17:03:05 GMT -5
I would agree that ECNL is not at all the level it’s made out to be but the fact is if you have a child who wants to play college just look at the recent college commitment cycle ALL the girls come from either ECNL or DA. The college coaches and recruiters use it as their first tool when even considering to evaluate a player.
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Mar 2, 2019 17:03:16 GMT -5
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Post by ultimatedad on Mar 2, 2019 17:03:16 GMT -5
I would agree that ECNL is not at all the level it’s made out to be but the fact is if you have a child who wants to play college just look at the recent college commitment cycle ALL the girls come from either ECNL or DA. The college coaches and recruiters use it as their first tool when even considering to evaluate a player.
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Mar 2, 2019 17:13:09 GMT -5
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Post by ultimatedad on Mar 2, 2019 17:13:09 GMT -5
I would agree that ECNL is not at all the level it’s made out to be but the fact is if you have a child who wants to play college just look at the recent college commitment cycle ALL the girls come from either ECNL or DA. The college coaches and recruiters use it as their first tool when even considering to evaluate a player. Sorry about the tripppllle post. Totaly agree that ECNL is not what it is cracked up to be. It is really good but no longer elite. I was looking at the National Champion College team F S and found relatively few ECNL girls but many foriegn girls and 2 yes 2 girls from Florida Sunrise Sting. Not a DA or ECNL club. How does Sunrise do this? Quality coaches that can match their best girls with college opportunity. Has all to do with the girl's tallent and coach's ability to match that tallent with a good college.
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Mar 5, 2019 19:54:45 GMT -5
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Post by ntxsoccer on Mar 5, 2019 19:54:45 GMT -5
I know, but the boys side dropping DA wouldnt likely have as big repercussions for the club as what's happening on the girls side. NTH (girls) picking DA will have massive effects on tryout season. I would expect half of their 2nd teams to seek greener pastures. Picking ECNL (assuming 2 teams per age group) would have less of an effect on GA soccer as a whole. Rumor in NTX is Tophat dropping DA. Is it the other way around?
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Mar 5, 2019 20:11:38 GMT -5
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Post by SoccerMom on Mar 5, 2019 20:11:38 GMT -5
I know, but the boys side dropping DA wouldnt likely have as big repercussions for the club as what's happening on the girls side. NTH (girls) picking DA will have massive effects on tryout season. I would expect half of their 2nd teams to seek greener pastures. Picking ECNL (assuming 2 teams per age group) would have less of an effect on GA soccer as a whole. Rumor in NTX is Tophat dropping DA. Is it the other way around? Rumor here is that they're dropping ECNL and that they already started talking to some of the ECNL parents
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Post by atlfutboldad on Mar 5, 2019 20:43:25 GMT -5
No way this goes over well for the ECNL/ 2nd team families. Good for the other clubs however. I predict stronger CF ECNL 2nd teams.
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Mar 5, 2019 20:55:33 GMT -5
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Post by oraclesfriend on Mar 5, 2019 20:55:33 GMT -5
No way this goes over well for the ECNL/ 2nd team families. Good for the other clubs however. I predict stronger CF ECNL 2nd teams. Is there any guarantee that CF retains their second teams? They are all at the bottom of the table (except the ones where it is really SSA who is the other team). It makes no logical sense for them to say that last year's CF ECNL teams (as a second team) weren't good enough but then offer them to have a second team. They are weakening their league more this way.
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Mar 5, 2019 21:21:57 GMT -5
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Post by atlfutboldad on Mar 5, 2019 21:21:57 GMT -5
No idea. 2 of the 4 CF 2nd teams are bottom of the table. The SSA 05's are top and 06's are mid-table. I doubt ECNL cares where the 2nd team comes from. And considering that CF 1st teams top most of the brackets, I'm guessing they get some leeway. Has ECNL dropped clubs previously?
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Post by mistergrinch on Mar 6, 2019 11:37:31 GMT -5
Something not mentioned about why ECNL and DA tend to be the 'better' leagues is that they attract the kids who WANT to play at higher levels. Kids go to clubs to play in these leagues. Some of the leagues just below them (NL/NPL) are often made up of the 'best kids left'.. or at a smaller club just the 'best kids'. Many of these kids wouldn't make top teams at DA/ECNL clubs, and many would not WANT to do so.
When you're playing high level, ECNL and DA eliminate the 'mismatched dedication' that you sometimes get on other top teams - where some kids are dedicated and train and go to ID camps, and others never touch a ball outside of practice and their parents whine that they have to travel for games.
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Post by soccerfan07 on Mar 6, 2019 12:14:02 GMT -5
Something not mentioned about why ECNL and DA tend to be the 'better' leagues is that they attract the kids who WANT to play at higher levels. Kids go to clubs to play in these leagues. Some of the leagues just below them (NL/NPL) are often made up of the 'best kids left'.. or at a smaller club just the 'best kids'. Many of these kids wouldn't make top teams at DA/ECNL clubs, and many would not WANT to do so. When you're playing high level, ECNL and DA eliminate the 'mismatched dedication' that you sometimes get on other top teams - where some kids are dedicated and train and go to ID camps, and others never touch a ball outside of practice and their parents whine that they have to travel for games. For the most part, this is correct, however not 100%. CF second teams are not all comprised of like minded players. Several made teams through other means than simply being one of the remaining best players. We had the same issues where camps (non-soccer), birthday parties, etc. took precedent over practices and games. Several players just recycled after being cut from one club and immediately being accepted due to previous team level and in some cases having not even been seen playing before. Then there’s still the same parents making it happen for some kids.
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Post by 04gparent on Mar 6, 2019 13:07:16 GMT -5
Not sure I believe the rumors about TH dropping ECNL and that conversations are being had with parents. That is not the typical TH mode of operating. Similar to what was said last year about other clubs if they drop one league will they pick up 2 teams in the other. Either way as normal late May and June will be very interesting.
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Mar 6, 2019 13:26:34 GMT -5
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Post by atlfutboldad on Mar 6, 2019 13:26:34 GMT -5
If i had to guess, CF ECNL 2nd teams will be stronger next year. With the north split and dropping DA there was a lot of turmoil over there and perception was bad. I would expect that things will settle and they will see an uptick in quality at tryouts for 2nd teams.
NTH is the one in the vise this year. Which will lead to some hand-wringing tryouts for families at other clubs.
On this note, why did both NTH and CF drop Super-Y last year?
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Mar 6, 2019 19:30:49 GMT -5
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Post by oraclesfriend on Mar 6, 2019 19:30:49 GMT -5
If i had to guess, CF ECNL 2nd teams will be stronger next year. With the north split and dropping DA there was a lot of turmoil over there and perception was bad. I would expect that things will settle and they will see an uptick in quality at tryouts for 2nd teams. NTH is the one in the vise this year. Which will lead to some hand-wringing tryouts for families at other clubs. On this note, why did both NTH and CF drop Super-Y last year? I am not convinced on your statements regarding their second teams as a whole. Yes, there was turmoil, but I still think that a "second" ECNL team is like a red-headed step child (no offense to the red heads). They are just not as important as the top team in the club's eyes or any recruiter. It advertises their second level quality to any college whereas an argument can be made that a second teamer at a DA club may have wanted to play high school and chose the second team (I know kids who did this). I just think that being on a second ECNL team is not a desirable place to be. I know people that left CF for this reason. They felt it was better to be at GSA or AFU on the only ECNL than CF's second ECNL team. As for Super Y...my child played girls super Y for two years not many years ago and there were no Tophat teams in super Y.
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Post by atlsoccer on Mar 7, 2019 13:03:40 GMT -5
If i had to guess, CF ECNL 2nd teams will be stronger next year. With the north split and dropping DA there was a lot of turmoil over there and perception was bad. I would expect that things will settle and they will see an uptick in quality at tryouts for 2nd teams. NTH is the one in the vise this year. Which will lead to some hand-wringing tryouts for families at other clubs. On this note, why did both NTH and CF drop Super-Y last year? I am not convinced on your statements regarding their second teams as a whole. Yes, there was turmoil, but I still think that a "second" ECNL team is like a red-headed step child (no offense to the red heads). They are just not as important as the top team in the club's eyes or any recruiter. It advertises their second level quality to any college whereas an argument can be made that a second teamer at a DA club may have wanted to play high school and chose the second team (I know kids who did this). I just think that being on a second ECNL team is not a desirable place to be. I know people that left CF for this reason. They felt it was better to be at GSA or AFU on the only ECNL than CF's second ECNL team. As for Super Y...my child played girls super Y for two years not many years ago and there were no Tophat teams in super Y. I think this is an interesting discussion, here are my two cents. Concorde's second ECNL teams best chance to be good was last year. It was a blank slate, but now it is viewed as the bottom of the barrel. The one exception to this would be if Tophat drops ECNL. I do not see the federation giving anyone, including Tophat, two DA teams. That means a lot of Tophat ECNL players may be looking for a new home. Concorde is the most logical place to go. It is the closest and players will go with the hopes of making the Concorde Platinum teams. Top players will, and others will help strengthen the second teams. There have also been rumors of Concorde giving all their second ECNL spots to SSA, which would be even closer to the Tophat area and may have a similar result, if Tophat drops ECNL...
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Post by straightred on Mar 8, 2019 19:04:41 GMT -5
Just my $0.02 to add to the discussion from up north where Eclipse has the exact same problem with their ECNL B teams this year as CF is having.
Eclipse just announced a plan to affiliate with a u-little club 25 miles north of their home turf and right under the nose of one of Chicago's two GDA clubs. Plans aren't final, but appears they are setting themselves up to have their B team operate in a geographic area far enough away from the "A" team such that they give themselves a much better chance for their 'second' ECNL teams to perhaps escape being seen as "B" teams.
There is enough demand to play high school in that area that they may be quite successful in raiding the current GDA rosters of the competing club and have their bottom-of-the-barrel B teams perform much better next year, while still focusing their efforts on the A teams remaining in contention for nattys.
Not sure if any of that is applicable to the calculus NTH is using to choose GDA or ECNL. But the CF and Eclipse B team problems are similar and sounds like they are both addressing their B team problems in a way that puts pressure on their rival club.
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Mar 8, 2019 19:16:14 GMT -5
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Post by atlfutboldad on Mar 8, 2019 19:16:14 GMT -5
If NTH goes all in on GDA we will need another ECNL club in the area. I wonder if UFA or SSA would apply/ be considered. NTH is paired with AL FC for ECNL travel.
Would be funny (to me) if NTH went GDA and UFA left GDA yo join ECNL.
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Mar 8, 2019 22:44:30 GMT -5
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Post by SoccerMom on Mar 8, 2019 22:44:30 GMT -5
If NTH goes all in on GDA we will need another ECNL club in the area. I wonder if UFA or SSA would apply/ be considered. NTH is paired with AL FC for ECNL travel. Would be funny (to me) if NTH went GDA and UFA left GDA yo join ECNL. UFA is not leaving GDA. And ECNL already went to UFA to ask them to drop GDA and go ECNL...too many years too late. I don't think we need another ECNL club, 3 is plenty.
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Post by soccerloafer on Mar 8, 2019 22:56:21 GMT -5
If i had to guess, CF ECNL 2nd teams will be stronger next year. With the north split and dropping DA there was a lot of turmoil over there and perception was bad. I would expect that things will settle and they will see an uptick in quality at tryouts for 2nd teams. NTH is the one in the vise this year. Which will lead to some hand-wringing tryouts for families at other clubs. On this note, why did both NTH and CF drop Super-Y last year? Don't believe NASA / TH or CF had Super-Y, at least on the girls. SSA and UFA fielded teams, as well as some smaller clubs - DDY was one. Level of play varied, but when my daughter played it was a mix of Athena A (back when that was ok) and RPL players just getting in extra training and games without much stress.
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Mar 9, 2019 6:34:11 GMT -5
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Post by oraclesfriend on Mar 9, 2019 6:34:11 GMT -5
If i had to guess, CF ECNL 2nd teams will be stronger next year. With the north split and dropping DA there was a lot of turmoil over there and perception was bad. I would expect that things will settle and they will see an uptick in quality at tryouts for 2nd teams. NTH is the one in the vise this year. Which will lead to some hand-wringing tryouts for families at other clubs. On this note, why did both NTH and CF drop Super-Y last year? Don't believe NASA / TH or CF had Super-Y, at least on the girls. SSA and UFA fielded teams, as well as some smaller clubs - DDY was one. Level of play varied, but when my daughter played it was a mix of Athena A (back when that was ok) and RPL players just getting in extra training and games without much stress. Concorde has had a girls super Y team for several years, but during the last 3 years Tophat did not. Concorde usually had a lot of their top players playing in it.
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Mar 9, 2019 6:38:29 GMT -5
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Post by oraclesfriend on Mar 9, 2019 6:38:29 GMT -5
If NTH goes all in on GDA we will need another ECNL club in the area. I wonder if UFA or SSA would apply/ be considered. NTH is paired with AL FC for ECNL travel. Would be funny (to me) if NTH went GDA and UFA left GDA yo join ECNL. UFA is not leaving GDA. And ECNL already went to UFA to ask them to drop GDA and go ECNL...too many years too late. I don't think we need another ECNL club, 3 is plenty. I think that it will end up staying AFU, GSA and CF if NTH drops. Since CF has 2 teams regardless if they keep it themselves or give to SSA there will still be 4 local teams like it was last year and for several preceding years. Honestly if NTH drops ECNL and CF gives ALL of their "second" teams to SSA then all of the big 6 will have an "elite" offering. 2 DA and 4 ECNL. That is appropriate. It allows the clubs to keep their best players with them from start to finish if they like the platform offered and the coaches running it. It should stabilize the market once people pick their poison (GDA or ECNL).
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Mar 9, 2019 9:19:10 GMT -5
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Post by infoguy on Mar 9, 2019 9:19:10 GMT -5
UFA is not leaving GDA. And ECNL already went to UFA to ask them to drop GDA and go ECNL...too many years too late. I don't think we need another ECNL club, 3 is plenty. I think that it will end up staying AFU, GSA and CF if NTH drops. Since CF has 2 teams regardless if they keep it themselves or give to SSA there will still be 4 local teams like it was last year and for several preceding years. Honestly if NTH drops ECNL and CF gives ALL of their "second" teams to SSA then all of the big 6 will have an "elite" offering. 2 DA and 4 ECNL. That is appropriate. It allows the clubs to keep their best players with them from start to finish if they like the platform offered and the coaches running it. It should stabilize the market once people pick their poison (GDA or ECNL). Do you think this would apply only to girls side?
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Mar 9, 2019 11:48:46 GMT -5
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Post by atlfutboldad on Mar 9, 2019 11:48:46 GMT -5
FC Prime was added when CF was given a 2nd team. I believe ECNL SE will want an even number of clubs for the home and away thing to work. I'm betting a new ECNL club being announced in the next couple of months, even if it's BUSA being given their own slot.
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Mar 14, 2019 22:07:00 GMT -5
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Post by ntxsoccer on Mar 14, 2019 22:07:00 GMT -5
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Post by oraclesfriend on Mar 15, 2019 6:33:20 GMT -5
Rumors in Georgia still mostly saying Tophat to drop ECNL, but only time will tell. What I want to know is why FCDallas was denied having 2 ECNL teams? If this 2 team thing was ECNL's plan last year...have they decided not to continue with it going forward? Was that a once in a lifetime offer to those clubs that took it? Personally I think the 2 ECNL team idea was hypocritical and goes against what ECNL tries to be, but that is just me. In the situation that CF gives them all to SSA then that at least would eliminate having a "second" team in ECNL but would be SSA getting ECNL teams without having to apply for it...both seem like a bad precedent to set.
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Mar 15, 2019 7:56:56 GMT -5
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Post by ntxsoccer on Mar 15, 2019 7:56:56 GMT -5
Rumors in Georgia still mostly saying Tophat to drop ECNL, but only time will tell. What I want to know is why FCDallas was denied having 2 ECNL teams? If this 2 team thing was ECNL's plan last year...have they decided not to continue with it going forward? Was that a once in a lifetime offer to those clubs that took it? Personally I think the 2 ECNL team idea was hypocritical and goes against what ECNL tries to be, but that is just me. In the situation that CF gives them all to SSA then that at least would eliminate having a "second" team in ECNL but would be SSA getting ECNL teams without having to apply for it...both seem like a bad precedent to set. My personal opinion... GDA had the momentum, until a number of high profile clubs pulled out last yr(Slammers, PDA, Hawks FC Stars, CF etc). While the clubs obviously wanted to leave GDA, ECNL added incentive to seal the deal. Maybe a one time deal to get ball rolling. This year I think ECNL in the stronger position and doesn't need to(Crossfire didnt get a 2nd team). IMHO, if you're asking for 2 spots to leave DA, you dont want to be in DA. I have plenty of GDA parent friends. None would miss it if it went away. Limited games, travel a big distance to win 6-0, sub rules etc. They cant even play in normal tourneys. The main draw was YNT consideration, even that went away as scouts are at ECNL games this year. But, and a, BIG but, it is supposed to be "the best" so they stay.
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Mar 15, 2019 9:13:36 GMT -5
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Post by oraclesfriend on Mar 15, 2019 9:13:36 GMT -5
Rumors in Georgia still mostly saying Tophat to drop ECNL, but only time will tell. What I want to know is why FCDallas was denied having 2 ECNL teams? If this 2 team thing was ECNL's plan last year...have they decided not to continue with it going forward? Was that a once in a lifetime offer to those clubs that took it? Personally I think the 2 ECNL team idea was hypocritical and goes against what ECNL tries to be, but that is just me. In the situation that CF gives them all to SSA then that at least would eliminate having a "second" team in ECNL but would be SSA getting ECNL teams without having to apply for it...both seem like a bad precedent to set. My personal opinion... GDA had the momentum, until a number of high profile clubs pulled out last yr(Slammers, PDA, Hawks FC Stars, CF etc). While the clubs obviously wanted to leave GDA, ECNL added incentive to seal the deal. Maybe a one time deal to get ball rolling. This year I think ECNL in the stronger position and doesn't need to(Crossfire didnt get a 2nd team). IMHO, if you're asking for 2 spots to leave DA, you dont want to be in DA. I have plenty of GDA parent friends. None would miss it if it went away. Limited games, travel a big distance to win 6-0, sub rules etc. They cant even play in normal tourneys. The main draw was YNT consideration, even that went away as scouts are at ECNL games this year. But, and a, BIG but, it is supposed to be "the best" so they stay. No question that there are issues with GDA. I don't know Texas clubs that well but here in Georgia the ECNL teams have to travel as far for games as the GA teams do and there are plenty of big time score mismatches there as well. Also sometimes you are going to Florida for an ECNL weekend and you have to play Tampa and then FC prime (which is in the Ft. Lauderdale area) the same weekend and those places are 4 hour drive apart from each other. So do you drive the 7-8 hours to Tampa and then 4+ hours to Ft Lauderdale then the 11 hours home? Do you fly to Tampa and then from Tampa to Ft. Lauderdale and then fly home? Drive in between Tampa and Ft Lauderdale but fly to Tampa and drive from Tampa to Ft Lauderdale then fly home to Atlanta? What a mess!! The lack of tournaments is more troublesome IMO than the travel when you consider it is VERY similar amount of travel. However, GDA allowed for friendlies to be scheduled between clubs this year so several GDA vs ECNL matchups have been scheduled and have taken place. So the number of games really isn't as big of an issue as it was last year. Also when you include the showcases it still ends up being close to 30 games on the whole year for DA. So the "lack of games" is more a perception than reality. 30 games for a whole year of play is pretty good when you are trying to balance out learning with injury prevention from overuse. Both leagues have some advantages. Both have disadvantages. I think that we are in a mess with all of these leagues out there that compete for clubs and players and recognition as "elite." I think GDA and ECNL will both stay around and battle each other for a while. GDA will (and has) made adjustments to help improve their product. The sub rules were changed for U14 this past year. They added the U16 single age group for next year. They will tweak things until they make the product attractive to more players and clubs. The high school thing will probably remain and I will be happy if they keep the two season (spring and fall) because there are a number of kids out there who don't want to play for their schools or don't have a school team to play for.
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Mar 15, 2019 9:25:49 GMT -5
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Post by ntxsoccer on Mar 15, 2019 9:25:49 GMT -5
Ouch, that Florida trip would be a killer. Much worse than the Texas area trips(but I have Dallas bias). GDA has to fly to Colorado, but otherwise for Dallas area teams travel not too bad. I guess Houston/San Antonio to Tulsa is a bit of a haul.
ECNL vs GDA friendlies are not a common occurrence to my knowledge here. There were some in the fall but not a lot. More like a scrimmage vs another team in same club. And, always just a different feel of a friendly/scrimmage vs real game. Maybe that is just crazy parent perspective.
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