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Post by Deleted on Aug 17, 2015 6:50:55 GMT -5
Folks this weekend were saying there was a vote to switch to calendar year fall 2016 vs waiting fall 2017. Any truth to this vote???
Also, the more I think about this, the more they really should have just phased this in vs switching all age groups. Yes, life will move on, but this will seriously disrupt many existing teams. The negative out weight the positives for sure. RPL will be a nightmare choosing which agegroup gets to retain the spot, I'm assuming the clubs will get to decide.
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Post by Keeper on Aug 17, 2015 7:28:18 GMT -5
Yeah our club doc and Greg Griffith with Ga Soccer confirmed this to us last week. I know there's a group trying to delay it if they can get all of region 3 to agree. If not next fall is gonna be fun, especially since it sounded like Ga Soccer isn't going to make a large announcement or Q&A for parents.
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Post by jash on Aug 17, 2015 8:24:22 GMT -5
Open communication and transparency should always be the way things work.
Keeping things quiet and waiting for the situation to explode later is certainly one way to handle it, but it is far from the best. If you're afraid people are going to be upset, maybe you need to ask why and think about whether or not this is the best decision after all.
The document that was posted from USSF "announcing" the change was actually marked as confidential. Is that decision even published anywhere by USSF itself? Has USSF actually announced the upcoming changes?
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Post by zizou on Aug 17, 2015 9:09:33 GMT -5
I must say I do not get the concern over the change to birth year by USSF. And I also do not agree that they should have some sort of public discourse. They are a private entity. They have an agenda in a big picture sense. They can do what they want so that, from their perspective, they optimize (either in terms of efficiency or product) the probability that they attain that objective. I doubt they made this decision thoughtlessly. Could be wrong about that but I am betting that at some point in the discussions the amount of grief they would received was mentioned at least once. Their agenda obviously has nothing to do with aligning with school years.
Likewise, families can do what they want. If they do not like something a private entity does they can talk with their feet.
If I was going to be outraged about something that had to do with school years I might be outraged over the ridiculously short educational time our children receive. People do know, I assume, that this Fall through late Spring/early Summer school year thing with loooooong summer holiday is also a fairly recent (and arbitrary) historical occurrence. Why do we not have school organized by Birth year? It really has little to do with the needs of the working class. We all know who drove the long summer holiday agenda, right? Rich people who wanted to go somewhere nice when the weather got hot. Rich people pushed an agenda that the middle classes followed. I would say this is close to historical fact.
So. If I was inclined to do something with significant social consequence I might push for our education system to follow the USSF. Move schools to birth year, increase the length of instructional time, and let's push for our kids to the best and the brightest in the entire industrialized world. Heck, in the whole universe!
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Post by goteam on Aug 17, 2015 9:46:52 GMT -5
I'm going out on a limb here but likely those parents with kids born Aug-Dec are not happy with the change & those parents of kids born Jan-May are thrilled. Bottom line the change is coming. It's a done deal. (meeting July 5) My child is currently the youngest on his team & it is no coincidence that the majority of the better teams are fall birthdays. But someone will always have to be the oldest and someone will always have to be the youngest. Yes, it may have a negative impact on some players and some teams in the short term but it will all shake our fairly quickly.
So the question becomes why wait a year? What advantage does that offer any team.. any club? Yes, it may offer an individual an advantage so I can completely understand why as a parent you would want to wait a year.
My only gripe at this point , is a decision needs to come down if change is to be implemented for GA soccer next follow or the following. It needs to be communicated in advance so that all families have all the facts well in advance so that they can make informed decisions for themselves. However in my now jaded opinion of the powers that be in GA club soccer.. they will move in their best interest.. not the parents or the players.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 17, 2015 10:25:49 GMT -5
I'd assume most folks regardless of when there kids are born, are not happy with the change if they are currently on a quality team that has been together for multiple years.
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Post by paterfamilias on Aug 17, 2015 10:35:35 GMT -5
I agree with zizou. There are plenty of other things to worry about.
I have a July birthday kid and a September birthday kid.
They will be fine
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Post by SoccerMom on Aug 17, 2015 10:55:34 GMT -5
Im not worried about it...my oldest is a Jan birthday and I have never felt like she was at a disadvantage over other girls and dont think that she will have a huge advantage now because of the change. Kids develop at different ages.
Its going to suck to loose some players that were born the year before but we will gain other players. Im not really sure why the big outrage?
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Post by Keeper on Aug 17, 2015 10:59:39 GMT -5
The biggest issue I think that will come up is say you have a club with a u15 Athena A team and a u14 Athena C team. Well now half that A and C team will be combined to be a new team, well where do you place that team? And I'd say 95% of teams are going to have that issue from current u13s to the u17s.
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Post by SoccerMom on Aug 17, 2015 11:15:46 GMT -5
The biggest issue I think that will come up is say you have a club with a u15 Athena A team and a u14 Athena C team. Well now half that A and C team will be combined to be a new team, well where do you place that team? And I'd say 95% of teams are going to have that issue from current u13s to the u17s. is this a smaller club issue?? if i was to take your same scenario and apply it to a big club You have a U15 rpl team and a U15 Athena A team...and a B and a C the 14's have an rpl team, an athena A team, a B and a C team I think that the teams will be combined with players of the same level and where they will be placed wont be an issue. yes some teams will loose strong players who are older, but youre getting the older players from the team below. Im also sure that there will be quite a few kids playing up to avoid too much movement
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Post by spectator on Aug 17, 2015 11:21:34 GMT -5
I'm certainly not 'outraged' but mildly concerned - example above is an excellent point.
I see the benefit for consistency - but would prefer a phase in especially at older ages - U15 and above. On my daughter's team it's about half and half 2000's and 1999's. It'll be disruptive to lose half the team. For larger non ECNL clubs like UFA, NASA, etc. it shouldn't be nearly as disruptive -but for smaller clubs, it could be devastating - especially if there is a much weaker team below the age group - or in some cases, no team at all.
We may see a lot of movement between clubs next year - I thought this year was pretty rough on the girls side with Top Hat entering ECNL - 2016 tryouts could be just as much of a cluster now.
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Post by Keeper on Aug 17, 2015 11:26:04 GMT -5
The biggest issue I think that will come up is say you have a club with a u15 Athena A team and a u14 Athena C team. Well now half that A and C team will be combined to be a new team, well where do you place that team? And I'd say 95% of teams are going to have that issue from current u13s to the u17s. is this a smaller club issue?? if i was to take your same scenario and apply it to a big club You have a U15 rpl team and a U15 Athena A team...and a B and a C the 14's have an rpl team, an athena A team, a B and a C team I think that the teams will be combined with players of the same level and where they will be placed wont be an issue. yes some teams will loose strong players who are older, but youre getting the older players from the team below. Im also sure that there will be quite a few kids playing up to avoid too much movement Yes a majority of clubs are small and will have this issue. Outside of AFU, UFA, tophat and Concorde most clubs don't have teams at every level. And yeah most high school aged kids I assume will just play up to try and keep the team together.
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Post by Keeper on Aug 17, 2015 11:30:22 GMT -5
So here's a thought my sister brought up, will all this and having some 8th graders not having a spring season bring back the spring select season? For both of us growing up we had shorten select seasons in the spring that typically started last March/Early April when most HS seasons wrapped up. Well not hers at Parkview way back when, but most non playoff bound ones.
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Post by touchlinedad on Aug 17, 2015 13:42:00 GMT -5
If it happens, it happens. However, I agree with others that this change has not been effectively communicated by U.S. Soccer or Georgia Soccer. Here is a link to a FAQ from the Puget Sound Premier League in Seattle that is an effective way to answer a lot of questions about the subject. I'm sure it doesn't answer all the questions people might have but it is a good example of what U.S. Soccer and state associations should be doing: www.pugetsoundpremierleague.com/home/862668.html
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Post by jash on Aug 17, 2015 13:47:05 GMT -5
Likewise, families can do what they want. If they do not like something a private entity does they can talk with their feet. Awesome... I don't like the change, so where can my kid go to play organized soccer at a select level that isn't USSF sanctioned? This is a monopoly situation, and the overwhelming bulk of the money on the youth side comes directly from the parents (i.e. customers). Some input or some consideration or at LEAST some transparency would be nice. So you want to know what my big issue is... it isn't about the level of play, or the birthdate of my kid, or whether or not it will end up being easier/harder or better/worse. It's really simple for me. My kid plays soccer now for fun and camaraderie, not because of any aspirations of national team or professional play. When this change takes place there is a good chance some of his close friends will no longer be teammates. And there is at least some chance, because of holes in teams at various ages, that there will be no team at all for him to play on. Further, there is now an excellent chance there will be no club soccer for him in his senior year, even if there is somehow a team made in the intervening years. This is all bad, and it applies to some exceedingly large percentage of kids who will be affected by this. Some of it could be solved by grandfathering instead of going cold turkey (the friends breaking up issue) and some can't (the "no season for some 8th and 12th graders" issue).
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Post by jash on Aug 17, 2015 13:56:26 GMT -5
If it happens, it happens. However, I agree with others that this change has not been effectively communicated by U.S. Soccer or Georgia Soccer. Here is a link to a FAQ from the Puget Sound Premier League in Seattle that is an effective way to answer a lot of questions about the subject. I'm sure it doesn't answer all the questions people might have but it is a good example of what U.S. Soccer and state associations should be doing: www.pugetsoundpremierleague.com/home/862668.htmlI appreciate them trying to explain it, but nothing on that page in any way justifies the change. gasoccerforum.com/post/9055/thread
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Post by SoccerMom on Aug 17, 2015 14:45:36 GMT -5
Likewise, families can do what they want. If they do not like something a private entity does they can talk with their feet. Awesome... I don't like the change, so where can my kid go to play organized soccer at a select level that isn't USSF sanctioned? This is a monopoly situation, and the overwhelming bulk of the money on the youth side comes directly from the parents (i.e. customers). Some input or some consideration or at LEAST some transparency would be nice. So you want to know what my big issue is... it isn't about the level of play, or the birthdate of my kid, or whether or not it will end up being easier/harder or better/worse. It's really simple for me. My kid plays soccer now for fun and camaraderie, not because of any aspirations of national team or professional play. When this change takes place there is a good chance some of his close friends will no longer be teammates. And there is at least some chance, because of holes in teams at various ages, that there will be no team at all for him to play on. Further, there is now an excellent chance there will be no club soccer for him in his senior year, even if there is somehow a team made in the intervening years. This is all bad, and it applies to some exceedingly large percentage of kids who will be affected by this. Some of it could be solved by grandfathering instead of going cold turkey (the friends breaking up issue) and some can't (the "no season for some 8th and 12th graders" issue). maybe I'm not understanding how all of this is gonna go down. Why wouldnt 8th graders have a team?? a team will be created for every age group. Im just not understanding the big outrage?? It worked in the past and it was changed and everyone complained then that it wouldnt work and it did! so if it worked in the past why wouldnt it work now. as far as friends, just because they play in another team doesnt mean they cant be friends. In school do they put them in all the same classes with all the same kids year after year?? no they dont and theyre still friends. I just don't see the big deal. We have had kids leave our team and kids are still friends. You can play on summer, winter, indoor, 3v3, 5v5 with all these kids
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Post by Keeper on Aug 17, 2015 15:09:15 GMT -5
Ok just to remind everyone seniors/12th graders with fall bdays will still have a team. This is why there's no u18 and its u19. For select they combine those ages bc yes some graduate later then others, or they started kindergarten at 6 instead of 5.
But yes they did this for many years before some of us were born or while others were playing youth so the blueprint is there. Worst case select spring soccer comes back and the clubs get to charge parents for spring fees too.
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Post by Soccerhouse on Aug 17, 2015 15:59:00 GMT -5
The biggest issue I think that will come up is say you have a club with a u15 Athena A team and a u14 Athena C team. Well now half that A and C team will be combined to be a new team, well where do you place that team? And I'd say 95% of teams are going to have that issue from current u13s to the u17s. is this a smaller club issue?? if i was to take your same scenario and apply it to a big club You have a U15 rpl team and a U15 Athena A team...and a B and a C the 14's have an rpl team, an athena A team, a B and a C team I think that the teams will be combined with players of the same level and where they will be placed wont be an issue. yes some teams will loose strong players who are older, but youre getting the older players from the team below. Im also sure that there will be quite a few kids playing up to avoid too much movement So if you were at a club and you are currently on an RPL team, but the age below and above did not have an RPL team and was weaker, you wouldn't be concerned at all? and I don't think we answered this question, but did RPL exist last time they made the switch to aug to aug?
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Post by popsoccer on Aug 17, 2015 16:18:05 GMT -5
And what about ECNL. Has there been any announcement from them about this issue? Will they be affected?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 17, 2015 16:20:15 GMT -5
Would be perfect timing for DA to start for girls....
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Post by th1976 on Aug 17, 2015 16:31:59 GMT -5
And what about ECNL. Has there been any announcement from them about this issue? Will they be affected? I've heard some talk about grandfathering which makes sense. I can't see some of the competitive ECNL (or whatever) teams being split. They'll work out some 'grandfather' deal or simply move the kids around to keep the team competitive and more or less together. Most of the team my kid is on are 01's but most of the 02's are central to the team and will play up. Otherwise, they'd be repeating U14 next season and I just don't see that happening.
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Post by jash on Aug 17, 2015 16:36:49 GMT -5
maybe I'm not understanding how all of this is gonna go down. Why wouldnt 8th graders have a team?? a team will be created for every age group. Im just not understanding the big outrage?? It worked in the past and it was changed and everyone complained then that it wouldnt work and it did! so if it worked in the past why wouldnt it work now. as far as friends, just because they play in another team doesnt mean they cant be friends. In school do they put them in all the same classes with all the same kids year after year?? no they dont and theyre still friends. I just don't see the big deal. We have had kids leave our team and kids are still friends. You can play on summer, winter, indoor, 3v3, 5v5 with all these kids While this issue exists in a very few edge cases right now, we will soon see a mix of 8th and 9th graders at a single age group... a very large mix. 9th graders have high school (and no spring season) while 8th graders do not have high school and may have nothing at all to do since a large chunk of their team will be off playing high school. I think I explained my concerns clearly... it's not outrage as much as it is irritation that it won't do anything to help (it really is meaningless in the big soccer picture to do this) and it seems to be change for change's sake. Some of these kids in high school are friends and have been since they were 8 years old because of soccer. They don't go to the same school, and they don't have much free time at all outside of school activities and soccer. If our team gets split because of this, there will be kids who won't see their friends pretty much ever. Believe it or not, that's a fact. And believe it or not, to these kids, the friendships are far more important than the soccer. It will work... of course it will work fine. There will be pain for lots of kids in the switch, some kids will literally lose their place to play altogether, some kids will have the 8th/9th grade issue, some kids will be separated from their friends, and here's one nobody has even mentioned -- how are all the teams going to be placed after we quite literally change personnel on every single team in the select system? That's going to be fun. But it will work, of course. It won't help anything at all with the USMNT, but at least they're doing something. Yay?
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Post by nutmeg on Aug 17, 2015 20:40:26 GMT -5
So what happens when you have a National League team at one age group and not another? You may not have 9 player continuity with this change. The year off the change is going to be very messy.
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Post by jack4343 on Aug 18, 2015 5:27:27 GMT -5
Question....regarding teams being split up. What's to stop clubs keeping teams together by having many players playing up a year? Won't they just do that in order to keep teams together?
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Post by SoccerMom on Aug 18, 2015 6:49:57 GMT -5
Question....regarding teams being split up. What's to stop clubs keeping teams together by having many players playing up a year? Won't they just do that in order to keep teams together? I agree....top teams will do just that.
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Post by SoccerMom on Aug 18, 2015 6:57:39 GMT -5
I'm going out on a limb here but likely those parents with kids born Aug-Dec are not happy with the change & those parents of kids born Jan-May are thrilled. I actually think thats backwards? The Jan-May kids got to play with older kids before and now they will have to play with younger less developed kids.
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Post by Soccerhouse on Aug 18, 2015 7:18:14 GMT -5
I agree -- however, for a current u15 team with a mix of 00, and 01s, I could easily see players displaced the following year from the current u14 teams with some of the 01s. You will have quality players with jan-july birthdays that will need homes unless everyone just ignores the switch and just keeps all their teams together. Just like clubs do now, they will want to make the best teams they can with a mix of players from the current different agegroups.
and its hard for teams to compete constantly against top teams a year older. Simple solution is just grandfather in older teams, and start from scratch on the bottom of the agegroups.
For me its seems like crazy logic to go away from the current system and I'm not outraged at the switch. Colleges and Universities are a huge part of the development of the youth of our culture. Even if my kid was world class, I'd probably still prefer they attend college over chasing the dream. Changing a system to accommodate a few world class players doesn't make sense. What needs to be fixed is college soccer and ensure that all this effort in developing players in wasted with NCAA restrictions on practice time etc.
Edited: Its worth adding in other frustrations -- For example DA teams always being made up of the older kids of each agegroup. I see no benefit of having a kid play DA, then not make the next year because hes the younger half of the age group. Quality kids will get upset and the process etc. Maybe Atlanta United helps smooth this process out and make it more about developing than results. It seems the logically thing to would be to create DA teams at every agegroup u12 and above and playup the true phenoms etc.
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Post by Keeper on Aug 18, 2015 8:18:15 GMT -5
Ok so curious anyone have any northern friends that have kids playing hockey? I know hockey has used always used a calendar year for club hockey, but you also have Jr High/Middle and High schools that use grades. Anyone have friends that can ask how that's worked out? I mean that's as close to soccer in the U.S. as you can get since most of the top kids only play college and never pros.
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Post by barca on Aug 18, 2015 10:13:19 GMT -5
So what would the age group designations be in Fall 2016? Would 2004's be U-13? 2003's are U-14? 2002's are U-15? 2001's is U-16? 2000's is U17?
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