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Post by Keeper on Jan 14, 2020 21:12:08 GMT -5
Just curious how this disrupts things for SCCL Boys as this is just for the Girls. CESA & SCUFC can’t pull out of SCCL without a home for those boys teams.
Wonder if they are using this to pull more players into there clubs and not looking to drop leagues.
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Post by atv on Jan 15, 2020 10:06:34 GMT -5
That’s a good question. Parents that have only girls probably don’t care and may be a little irritated about a boys post on a girls thread (LOL). I think CESA boys teams continue without any changes since this doesn’t affect them and nothing has been announced. At least not yet.
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Post by guest on Jan 15, 2020 10:08:55 GMT -5
I was looking at the U17 girls where they only played 15 games average. A couple teams played 20 games while other teams played only 10 or 11 games. Aside from the obvious scheduling chaos that exists in the ECNL, clearly there is a huge talent difference between the teams. I do think that altfuboldad is on the right track with his ODP idea. The diff in ECNL games played is FL teams don’t play intrastate games until spring. They will all eventually play roughly the same amount. But it does play havoc on who will advance to Nationals. GA teams are done but you have to wait till May to see if you qualify for Nationals. |
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Post by atv on Jan 15, 2020 11:33:51 GMT -5
I was looking at the U17 girls where they only played 15 games average. A couple teams played 20 games while other teams played only 10 or 11 games. Aside from the obvious scheduling chaos that exists in the ECNL, clearly there is a huge talent difference between the teams. I do think that altfuboldad is on the right track with his ODP idea. The diff in ECNL games played is FL teams don’t play intrastate games until spring. They will all eventually play roughly the same amount. But it does play havoc on who will advance to Nationals. GA teams are done but you have to wait till May to see if you qualify for Nationals. Another reason for the SE conference to separate FL and GA/ TN/ AL |
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Post by atlfutboldad on Jan 15, 2020 14:45:48 GMT -5
Another reason for the SE conference to separate FL and GA/ TN/ AL Everyone wants to leave out FL.  |
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Post by oraclesfriend on Jan 15, 2020 18:06:45 GMT -5
The diff in ECNL games played is FL teams don’t play intrastate games until spring. They will all eventually play roughly the same amount. But it does play havoc on who will advance to Nationals. GA teams are done but you have to wait till May to see if you qualify for Nationals. Another reason for the SE conference to separate FL and GA/ TN/ AL Tennessee has girls soccer in the fall. That is why they are in a different conference. At least Florids plays in the winter so it does not interfere with Georgia High school season |
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Post by Keeper on Jan 15, 2020 19:45:57 GMT -5
Another reason for the SE conference to separate FL and GA/ TN/ AL Tennessee has girls soccer in the fall. That is why they are in a different conference. At least Florids plays in the winter so it does not interfere with Georgia High school season The nightmare that is HS soccer just in the south is what is screwing up Club even more. A majority of the US plays soccer in the Fall but just look at how F’ed we are in the southeast. This is why regional play will never work under our current mega club soccer world. Ga - Boys & Girls Spring FL - Boys & Girls Winter SC - Boys & Girls Spring NC - Boys Fall / Girls Spring TN - Girls Fall / Boys Spring AL - Boys & Girls Spring |
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Post by footyfan on Jan 15, 2020 20:10:24 GMT -5
Tennessee has girls soccer in the fall. That is why they are in a different conference. At least Florids plays in the winter so it does not interfere with Georgia High school season The nightmare that is HS soccer just in the south is what is screwing up Club even more. A majority of the US plays soccer in the Fall but just look at how F’ed we are in the southeast. This is why regional play will never work under our current mega club soccer world. Ga - Boys & Girls Spring FL - Boys & Girls Winter SC - Boys & Girls Spring NC - Boys Fall / Girls Spring TN - Girls Fall / Boys Spring AL - Boys & Girls Spring At some point soccer in the south will become popular enough to be held in the fall/winter like vast majority of the states in the country. Will take a while to convince the bubba ADs though. |
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Post by oraclesfriend on Jan 16, 2020 0:13:39 GMT -5
Florida needs to do it in the winter. It is just too hot to do it in the fall or spring. Even though I feel bad for the American football players in the fall with all of the equipment on, at least they have water available nearly all of the time.
The splitting of the boys and girls seasons I just don't get.
I don't know that it will ever get popular enough for the powers that be to change it to fall but if everyone else could all play spring then regional play would work better.
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Post by guest on Jan 16, 2020 8:50:21 GMT -5
Ok serious question. How in the heck can you have fall soccer at a HS that has gridiron football? What about field space, concessions space, field house usage, weight room? I am in Gwinnett where football is a 9 month sport (on a bit of a break right now but spring training begins soon). We have a hard enough time playing spring soccer at a Gwinnett school that offers football.
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Post by guest on Jan 16, 2020 8:56:51 GMT -5
And by the way, you haven’t seen hot until you’ve seen summer lacrosse. 5-10 games a weekend in full pads and a lot more running that gridiron football. At least if your a middie.
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Post by oraclesfriend on Jan 16, 2020 9:32:20 GMT -5
And by the way, you haven’t seen hot until you’ve seen summer lacrosse. 5-10 games a weekend in full pads and a lot more running that gridiron football. At least if your a middie. No doubt, as lax has pads and helmets but run around like soccer players. However, high school lax is in the spring. |
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Post by Soccerhouse on Jan 16, 2020 9:39:46 GMT -5
For many private schools in particular that also have middle school teams on the same campus, field space would be nearly impossible to also have to accommodate boys soccer teams.
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Post by oraclesfriend on Jan 16, 2020 9:43:52 GMT -5
Ok serious question. How in the heck can you have fall soccer at a HS that has gridiron football? What about field space, concessions space, field house usage, weight room? I am in Gwinnett where football is a 9 month sport (on a bit of a break right now but spring training begins soon). We have a hard enough time playing spring soccer at a Gwinnett school that offers football. Not sure how all of the schools around are laid out but I have been to many that are set up with "practice fields." While I don't love turf, if you had turf game fields then you wouldn't have to worry about field break down during the season. Football only plays one game per week...usually Fridays for Varsity. Prioritize Varsity football and varsity soccer. JV schedules work around the varsity. Soccer has early week games, say Monday and Wednesday. JV football games Thursday. You have home and away games. You could make it work. The concessions I am not sure why that would be an issue. Parent volunteers run it and you have different parents for the different teams. Field house usage? What is so important about a field house for soccer players. We play club without it with no problem. Weight room...not really sure what to say about this because there are so many options from having specific "weight training classes" for each sport or grouped together to optional off season training for soccer players etc. The biggest hurdle is culture...too many people feeling that it couldn't be done. Football would have to understand that there are other sports and not be prima donnas. That is the biggest problem. |
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Post by atlfutboldad on Jan 16, 2020 11:07:29 GMT -5
It seems we're pretty lucky then. Our rural public HS has a turf football stadium, a grass soccer "game field" (not gonna call it a stadium, 2 tiny bleachers), and a couple grass practice fields (used for marching band rehearsal also I think).
The other county public HS a few miles away doesnt have quite as much space, a turf football stadium and another couple grass practice fields. They play the soccer games in the football stadium, so it's a narrow field.
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Post by footyfan on Jan 16, 2020 12:43:06 GMT -5
Ok serious question. How in the heck can you have fall soccer at a HS that has gridiron football? What about field space, concessions space, field house usage, weight room? I am in Gwinnett where football is a 9 month sport (on a bit of a break right now but spring training begins soon). We have a hard enough time playing spring soccer at a Gwinnett school that offers football. Not sure how all of the schools around are laid out but I have been to many that are set up with "practice fields." While I don't love turf, if you had turf game fields then you wouldn't have to worry about field break down during the season. Football only plays one game per week...usually Fridays for Varsity. Prioritize Varsity football and varsity soccer. JV schedules work around the varsity. Soccer has early week games, say Monday and Wednesday. JV football games Thursday. You have home and away games. You could make it work. The concessions I am not sure why that would be an issue. Parent volunteers run it and you have different parents for the different teams. Field house usage? What is so important about a field house for soccer players. We play club without it with no problem. Weight room...not really sure what to say about this because there are so many options from having specific "weight training classes" for each sport or grouped together to optional off season training for soccer players etc. The biggest hurdle is culture...too many people feeling that it couldn't be done. Football would have to understand that there are other sports and not be prima donnas. That is the biggest problem. Agreed. Most schools in the country manage football in fall and soccer in fall or winter(~40 states). The 40 shouldn't change to match the 10. |
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Post by Keeper on Jan 16, 2020 13:26:31 GMT -5
Ok serious question. How in the heck can you have fall soccer at a HS that has gridiron football? What about field space, concessions space, field house usage, weight room? I am in Gwinnett where football is a 9 month sport (on a bit of a break right now but spring training begins soon). We have a hard enough time playing spring soccer at a Gwinnett school that offers football. Simple. Stop putting HS Football on a pedestal. HS Football coaches throughout Georgia are typically the highest paid “teachers”. Yes there are a few that are great academic teachers but a lot “teach” PE courses. Football needs to be treated as an equal to all sports with equal access to the HS resources, and that only starts from HS parents fighting to make that change by getting involved with the PTA and Booster clubs. |
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Post by atlfutboldad on Jan 16, 2020 14:18:33 GMT -5
But football likely provides 60+% of the HS sports revenue (followed by basketball). Why wouldn't they have the best access to resources? If their resources are withdrawn they may not recruit as well or perform as well, leading to loss of top coaches, leading to losses, lower attendance, and in the end...loss of revenue hurting the other sports. HS football is self-sustaining many places, and should they fight to keep their revenue away from the other sports at the school...it might be catastrophic. Best players all going private schools or if the county allows for school choice transferring to another school, etc. www.athleticbusiness.com/high-school/span-class-c1-hs-athletics-depends-on-money-made-at-football-games-span.htmlI do agree with people needing to join soccer booster clubs though, that's how you start growing the financial base needed to compete with sports like football. |
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Post by footyfan on Jan 16, 2020 15:33:28 GMT -5
Schools in those 40 states still make much more money from football. When football is home, soccer plays away.
Weightroom times are scheduled as well.
The 9 month part confuses me a bit though.
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Post by atlfutboldad on Jan 16, 2020 18:10:48 GMT -5
Spring training in football likely. I assume they have a February-May training season. Plus many kids do 7-v-7 tournaments during the summer. I don't know if colleges are allowed to host those anymore.
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Post by Keeper on Jan 16, 2020 22:02:54 GMT -5
But football likely provides 60+% of the HS sports revenue (followed by basketball). Why wouldn't they have the best access to resources? If their resources are withdrawn they may not recruit as well or perform as well, leading to loss of top coaches, leading to losses, lower attendance, and in the end...loss of revenue hurting the other sports. HS football is self-sustaining many places, and should they fight to keep their revenue away from the other sports at the school...it might be catastrophic. Best players all going private schools or if the county allows for school choice transferring to another school, etc. www.athleticbusiness.com/high-school/span-class-c1-hs-athletics-depends-on-money-made-at-football-games-span.htmlI do agree with people needing to join soccer booster clubs though, that's how you start growing the financial base needed to compete with sports like football. High school sports revenue?!?! Hahahahaha wow that’s hilarious. Jeez just another thing wrong with our nations Education system. Last time I checked my tax dollars paid for that stadium, for the turf field inside of it, the electric bill for the lights to be on, for the practice fields, weight room, and for the coach to have that job as a teacher. Then add in the fact that players pay a lot of money to participate in HS sports. (HS soccer this spring is over $500 for one season, Cross Country was nearly just as much too.) The article is interesting and for Virginia that might work as a bandaid as students don’t have to pay to play HS sports like it’s come accustomed here in Georgia. |
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Post by guest on Jan 17, 2020 11:14:16 GMT -5
Snip from the article: “While the school division will cover the costs of big items, such as the coaches' stipends and the electric bill, typically everything necessary to put on a game — equipment, uniforms, officials and police officers — is paid for by the school's athletics department.”
At least from my experience at a big Gwinnett school soccer booster club almost all of this wrong. The booster club pays for all of this (except the light bill). We also pay for field maintenance (no turf in Gwinnett, except at the Buford Community College). Also all sport participants for the first several years of school existence had to pay the county back for the field house. The county basically pays for the school and the stadium. If you want anything else; practice fields, field house, etc, the boosters pay for it. It’s like a mortgage. By the way our dues are $300. Still a lot but getting lower each year.
Same thing at the county park fields. If you want bleachers, press box, concession stands, the youth programs (football, baseball, lacrosse, etc) the county will build it and you have to pay the county back. That’s why those programs are so protective of ‘their’ fields. They had to pay big bucks early on to the county.
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Post by guest on Jan 17, 2020 11:16:40 GMT -5
By the way that post moved me up from Athena/Classic to DA/ECNL. What, no SCCL? (Queue snarky comments from never-SCCL‘ers).
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Post by justwatching on Jan 17, 2020 11:26:12 GMT -5
It still amazes me that school's here in GA require kids to pay to play. Seems ridiculous to have to pay anything to play public school sports. I guess the opportunity for access to everyone for sports truly doesn't exist anymore.
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Post by atlfutboldad on Jan 17, 2020 11:47:14 GMT -5
I assume band kids have to buy their own instruments and pay for the extracurricular activities.
In the end the argument of who shoulders the financial burden is a political argument for HS sports...socialism vs capitalism. You're going to pay for it one way or the other.
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Post by atv on Jan 18, 2020 9:51:42 GMT -5
I’m thinking it would be very easy to transition top SCCL bracket into an ECNL Regional League. If club leaders aligned to do this, it would happen.
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Post by atlfutboldad on Jan 18, 2020 10:44:38 GMT -5
It would likely mean less control though, so I don't know if I could see it happening. I don't know if NTH would suffer the indignity of going back to ECNL but in a lower capacity. Plus it would somewhat validate that ECNL currently has a better plan for 2nd level players than DA and the east coast DPL.
Let's be honest though, ECRL would be the perfect place for most of the big clubs' second teams.
If a club as strong as NTH's 2nd team struggled in ECNL as much as they did in 2018-19 (arguably likely due to many 2nd level parents and players choosing SCCL), a level down is likely the right place to be. And this would have more desirable "name recognition" than DPL, girls NPL or even SCCL. With a higher level of finals competition as well as the potential to do a showcase or 2 a year.
In the end wouldn't this be a happy middle ground for 2nd level players/ families? Little/less league travel with the potential to play in showcases and the chance to make ECNL finals (or just go to US Club regionals as current).
The big 6 in the state could look like 1st tier DA/ECNL, 2nd tier ECRL, 3rd tier SCCL, 4th tier SCCL Premier...thus having more of a pyramid with national, regional and state levels. This could also grant more chances for other GA clubs to join SCCL as a GA-only league with the possibility to be added to the regional league should they be successful. A club like AFC who is probably 7th largest in state joined the ECRL and dominated, it would give them a leg up in applying to get ECNL.
JMO of course.
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Post by atv on Jan 24, 2020 12:43:39 GMT -5
ECNL just announced ECNL regional heartland conference. There are now eight ECNL Girls Regional Conferences Northeast, Northwest, Ohio Valley, Southwest, Texas, Virginia, Carolinas, and Heartland.
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Post by soccerlegacy on Jan 24, 2020 13:34:17 GMT -5
It would likely mean less control though, so I don't know if I could see it happening. I don't know if NTH would suffer the indignity of going back to ECNL but in a lower capacity. Plus it would somewhat validate that ECNL currently has a better plan for 2nd level players than DA and the east coast DPL. Let's be honest though, ECRL would be the perfect place for most of the big clubs' second teams. If a club as strong as NTH's 2nd team struggled in ECNL as much as they did in 2018-19 (arguably likely due to many 2nd level parents and players choosing SCCL), a level down is likely the right place to be. And this would have more desirable "name recognition" than DPL, girls NPL or even SCCL. With a higher level of finals competition as well as the potential to do a showcase or 2 a year. In the end wouldn't this be a happy middle ground for 2nd level players/ families? Little/less league travel with the potential to play in showcases and the chance to make ECNL finals (or just go to US Club regionals as current). The big 6 in the state could look like 1st tier DA/ECNL, 2nd tier ECRL, 3rd tier SCCL, 4th tier SCCL Premier...thus having more of a pyramid with national, regional and state levels. This could also grant more chances for other GA clubs to join SCCL as a GA-only league with the possibility to be added to the regional league should they be successful. A club like AFC who is probably 7th largest in state joined the ECRL and dominated, it would give them a leg up in applying to get ECNL. JMO of course. This make so much sense that it will diffidently be ignored by those in power within the state of Georgia. So frustrating to sit and watch decisions be made not for the betterment of the players, but for control and power. |
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Post by footyfan on Jan 24, 2020 17:00:25 GMT -5
It would likely mean less control though, so I don't know if I could see it happening. I don't know if NTH would suffer the indignity of going back to ECNL but in a lower capacity. Plus it would somewhat validate that ECNL currently has a better plan for 2nd level players than DA and the east coast DPL. Let's be honest though, ECRL would be the perfect place for most of the big clubs' second teams. If a club as strong as NTH's 2nd team struggled in ECNL as much as they did in 2018-19 (arguably likely due to many 2nd level parents and players choosing SCCL), a level down is likely the right place to be. And this would have more desirable "name recognition" than DPL, girls NPL or even SCCL. With a higher level of finals competition as well as the potential to do a showcase or 2 a year. In the end wouldn't this be a happy middle ground for 2nd level players/ families? Little/less league travel with the potential to play in showcases and the chance to make ECNL finals (or just go to US Club regionals as current). The big 6 in the state could look like 1st tier DA/ECNL, 2nd tier ECRL, 3rd tier SCCL, 4th tier SCCL Premier...thus having more of a pyramid with national, regional and state levels. This could also grant more chances for other GA clubs to join SCCL as a GA-only league with the possibility to be added to the regional league should they be successful. A club like AFC who is probably 7th largest in state joined the ECRL and dominated, it would give them a leg up in applying to get ECNL. JMO of course. This make so much sense that it will diffidently be ignored by those in power within the state of Georgia. So frustrating to sit and watch decisions be made not for the betterment of the players, but for control and power. I mean, all we are asking for is that the big clubs and competing leagues do what's in the best interest of the kids and parents. |
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