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Post by egbbfb03 on Sept 1, 2020 9:50:05 GMT -5
Is anyone hearing that US Soccer is considering doing away with the "birth year" and going back to the "grade year" for age groups?
A club coach told me he had heard that but I have not not heard anything myself. As you know, we "adjusted" a few years back to be consistent with other areas of the world but my understanding is that it has caused some issues.
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Post by 04gparent on Sept 1, 2020 9:57:07 GMT -5
I have not heard this... Yes the change had a negative impact on many kids, but at this point most of them are older now and have adjusted. I would not be in favor or changing back... We should just let it be at this point...
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Post by atlfutboldad on Sept 1, 2020 10:09:40 GMT -5
What would it hurt? Could kids not continue to play up with their current "older" teams? The difference is that they cannot play down with the classmates through their high school years. The only year they can currently play together is their senior year. You can always play UP.
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Post by DunwoodySoccerDad on Sept 1, 2020 10:24:49 GMT -5
What would it hurt? Could kids not continue to play up with their current "older" teams? The difference is that they cannot play down with the classmates through their high school years. The only year they can currently play together is their senior year. You can always play UP. Agreed. If a kid like mine (fall birthday, plays with girls in her grade and one above) is comfortable staying with that group, she can play up with them if she wants to. One big positive to this change would be that you don't have those middle school kids in U15 who don't have a real spring season because their older teammates are in HS and playing for their HS team and the club team isn't playing any games except for maybe a postseason tournament. |
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Post by flix on Sept 1, 2020 10:26:19 GMT -5
Nooooooooooooooooooo
Not this thread again!!
Once I thought I was out, they pull me back in
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Post by mistergrinch on Sept 1, 2020 10:40:38 GMT -5
please no.. it was a mess the first time.. now just leave it.
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Post by mightydawg on Sept 1, 2020 11:10:52 GMT -5
There are always going to be older and younger kids regardless of the cut off. The current system is going on its 5th year. Just let it be.
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Post by Soccerhouse on Sept 1, 2020 12:16:33 GMT -5
my argument before was the previous system was fine:
you had odp and DA that were calendar based
you had the rest of soccer that were school year based.
Best of both worlds - the younger Oct-Dec kids could thrive in the academic setting and not be silenced and the jan-May birthdays could thrive in the calendar system. no kid left behind.
At that time US Club could of maybe should have just said were not switching .
switching again now would be bad.
my argument was having both is not bad
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Post by slickdaddy96 on Sept 1, 2020 12:18:40 GMT -5
I have not heard this... Yes the change had a negative impact on many kids, but at this point most of them are older now and have adjusted. I would not be in favor or changing back... We should just let it be at this point... The change had both negative and positive impacts on many kids and it just moved the better teams from skewing heavily with August-November birthdays to January-April birthdays. Other than having two different grade levels on each team now, it didn't do anything but make one set of kids more sought after and the other not as much anymore. The superstars are still going to get through no matter what month they are born and when they get older January birthday versus August birthday doesn't make that much difference anymore. Overall the change was a positive for my kid even though he is a May birthday so really he is in the middle birth month wise for either guidelines. I would not want him to go back at this point. He is in U15 and almost done. Leave it be and if they do decide to change it they need to take a grandfathered approach instead. So anyone U13 and up playing 11v11 already are grandfathered to the birth year way and any U12 and lower kids go back to school year or heck even just make it U9 and below and grandfather it up until the birth year is gone after 10 years. |
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Post by bogan on Sept 1, 2020 12:25:51 GMT -5
Slick daddy said “...Other than having two different grade levels on each team now, it didn't do anything but make one set of kids more sought after and the other not as much anymore. The superstars are still going to get through no matter what month they are born and when they get older January birthday versus August birthday doesn't make that much difference anymore.”
Therein lies the rub-it seems if you aren’t a super star before U-14, it’s over. The late bloomers rarely get picked. Not unheard of but rare.
There was a study done in ice hockey that showed the majority (>60%) of pro players have a January-March birthday. By the time you get to September, it was down to <10% if I recall correctly.
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Post by slickdaddy96 on Sept 1, 2020 12:31:54 GMT -5
Slick daddy said “...Other than having two different grade levels on each team now, it didn't do anything but make one set of kids more sought after and the other not as much anymore. The superstars are still going to get through no matter what month they are born and when they get older January birthday versus August birthday doesn't make that much difference anymore.” Therein lies the rub-it seems if you aren’t a super star after U-14, it’s over. The late bloomers rarely get picked. Not unheard of but rare. There was a study done in ice hockey that showed the majority (>60%) of pro players have a January-March birthdays. By the time you get to September, it was down to <10% if I recall correctly. Oh I agree and its why I would argue bio-banding would be better for all than doing any kind of calendar year or school year. Certain weight/height you play in a league that has that range. It would help a lot of people. My son's team played a U15 UFA team at the AFC tournament that the kids looked like they were seniors in high school and drove the team bus to the game. I mean a lot of these guys were bigger than me and I'm not a small dude. Meanwhile my son is 5'9" and the tallest on his team but they towered over him. Then we got fast little guys on the team that just get manhandled off the ball, and if you don't have a good referee crew calling fouls it gets ugly quick. That whole UFA team should have been playing up in the lower U16 division in that tournament. Even if the referee crew is doing a good job all of our kids were banged up and all the other team parents we played in that tournament who played that team as well said their kids were banged up. We had two kids that couldn't even play on Sunday they were so banged up and they were our better players. It completely changed the dynamic of our Sunday game due to that. Bio-banding should be used, and even if bio-banding is not used a coach needs to be smart enough to realize when his team is bigger than normal and play their team up to kids more their size. Sorry just venting a bit. |
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Post by randomparent on Sept 1, 2020 12:51:14 GMT -5
It makes a lot of sense to switch it back. Hopefully, they do this before next year.
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Post by DunwoodySoccerDad on Sept 1, 2020 12:57:28 GMT -5
Slick daddy said “...Other than having two different grade levels on each team now, it didn't do anything but make one set of kids more sought after and the other not as much anymore. The superstars are still going to get through no matter what month they are born and when they get older January birthday versus August birthday doesn't make that much difference anymore.” Therein lies the rub-it seems if you aren’t a super star before U-14, it’s over. The late bloomers rarely get picked. Not unheard of but rare. There was a study done in ice hockey that showed the majority (>60%) of pro players have a January-March birthday. By the time you get to September, it was down to <10% if I recall correctly. The hockey thing was the opening chapter of "Outliers" by Malcolm Gladwell. Basically his point was that those kids were bigger than the kids born late in the year at a young age. And so those bigger kids were identified early on as being stars, so they would get on the higher level teams, get extra training, attention, etc. My U14 daughter got caught in this when we moved her from U8 rec to U10 club soccer. Spring 2016 is when they made the decision to change the age groups to calendar year. That was the exact time we moved her, so rather than her going into U9 soccer as one of the older kids (September b-day), she was one of the younger ones. And she was not a big kid, so she's always been one of the smallest on her team. Looking back, there's no question her career would have been very different had they not made that age group change. My U11 is the opposite - she's bigger than her older sister was at this age AND she has a spring b-day. So the calendar year groupings work well for her. |
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Post by Futsal Gawdess on Sept 1, 2020 13:00:17 GMT -5
Is anyone hearing that US Soccer is considering doing away with the "birth year" and going back to the "grade year" for age groups? A club coach told me he had heard that but I have not not heard anything myself. As you know, we "adjusted" a few years back to be consistent with other areas of the world but my understanding is that it has caused some issues. I do hope you're pulling our collective legs because if this is true, I will have to stay away from the forum for quite some time as I know of no other topic outside of NTH and Covid Stats that evokes such " passion" from our community... 🏃♂️🏃♂️🏃♂️ |
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Post by bogan on Sept 1, 2020 13:13:08 GMT -5
Is anyone hearing that US Soccer is considering doing away with the "birth year" and going back to the "grade year" for age groups? A club coach told me he had heard that but I have not not heard anything myself. As you know, we "adjusted" a few years back to be consistent with other areas of the world but my understanding is that it has caused some issues. I do hope you're pulling our collective legs because if this is true, I will have to stay away from the forum for quite some time as I know of no other topic outside of NTH and Covid Stats that evokes such " passion" from our community... 🏃♂️🏃♂️🏃♂️ The last I heard of this (until now) was in December of 2019 for this fall. Obviously didn’t happen-COVID did...but with the DA dismantling it wouldn’t surprise me this has come up again. |
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Post by slickdaddy96 on Sept 1, 2020 13:48:59 GMT -5
I don't care what they do as long as they start it for U9 and down and grandfather everyone else. It isn't fair to the kids that have dealt with the change for going on 5 years to force them back into the old way. If you want to experiment with stuff like this it always needs to start with the younger ages and grandfather the old ages out of it.
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Post by Keeper on Sept 1, 2020 14:01:15 GMT -5
Been hearing rumbling of this for most of the year actually. With numbers of players dropping significantly, especially in the younger ages, they are looking to understand why and one of the main reasons is the current calendar year program. Remember USSoccer only cares about money so less players equals less money for them.
I say rip the band aid and just go back to what it was and the Aug 1 to July 31 grouping.
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Post by mistergrinch on Sept 1, 2020 14:30:00 GMT -5
Been hearing rumbling of this for most of the year actually. With numbers of players dropping significantly, especially in the younger ages, they are looking to understand why and one of the main reasons is the current calendar year program. Remember USSoccer only cares about money so less players equals less money for them. I say rip the band aid and just go back to what it was and the Aug 1 to July 31 grouping. So would the kids who lost a year gain it back? Does a fall 04 currently playing u17 now go back to playing u16, etc?
Also.. are we really going to break up teams.. again?
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Post by slickdaddy96 on Sept 1, 2020 14:52:13 GMT -5
Been hearing rumbling of this for most of the year actually. With numbers of players dropping significantly, especially in the younger ages, they are looking to understand why and one of the main reasons is the current calendar year program. Remember USSoccer only cares about money so less players equals less money for them. I say rip the band aid and just go back to what it was and the Aug 1 to July 31 grouping. So would the kids who lost a year gain it back? Does a fall 04 currently playing u17 now go back to playing u16, etc?
Also.. are we really going to break up teams.. again?
The last part exactly! Teams have already been broken up once 5 years ago. Now they want to break them up again. It is why I said grandfather existing age groups to force all clubs to play by the same rules (as just keeping a team together won't really work and could be a disadvantage for some teams having to play up with their oldest kid when other clubs break their teams up and re-form teams) If they want to lose more people do this again. All the kids that have finally formed bonds once again are going to be broken apart. Most in older age groups will just say the hell with this and quit. My son probably would be one of them that just said the hell with it and played high school only. I think most people that want to change back if you polled secretly are doing it only for their own kid's reasons because they went from being oldest in a age group to youngest. I think most that don't want it is because they became the oldest in an age group. In reality most kids who are in old age groups just want to finish out their years in club soccer without breaking up a team again. |
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Post by randomparent on Sept 1, 2020 15:28:19 GMT -5
I don't care what they do as long as they start it for U9 and down and grandfather everyone else. It isn't fair to the kids that have dealt with the change for going on 5 years to force them back into the old way. If you want to experiment with stuff like this it always needs to start with the younger ages and grandfather the old ages out of it. That doesn't make any sense. The last switch wasn't so bad. Make the announcement by the end of this year and do it for everyone. I am actually going to send an email telling them how much I support the change. My oldest has a Jan birthday so it worked great for him and my youngest is later in the year so going back will do a ton for him. Plus it makes more sense to keep kids with their classmates. |
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Post by BubbleDad on Sept 1, 2020 15:38:35 GMT -5
Been hearing rumbling of this for most of the year actually. With numbers of players dropping significantly, especially in the younger ages, they are looking to understand why and one of the main reasons is the current calendar year program. Remember USSoccer only cares about money so less players equals less money for them. I say rip the band aid and just go back to what it was and the Aug 1 to July 31 grouping. OMG! My 06G has a July bday, so that would make her a baby on the team she would land on. Yikes. My daughter got into Academy in 2017 at the u12 level so these rules were active for a year. |
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Post by Keeper on Sept 1, 2020 15:40:22 GMT -5
Been hearing rumbling of this for most of the year actually. With numbers of players dropping significantly, especially in the younger ages, they are looking to understand why and one of the main reasons is the current calendar year program. Remember USSoccer only cares about money so less players equals less money for them. I say rip the band aid and just go back to what it was and the Aug 1 to July 31 grouping. So would the kids who lost a year gain it back? Does a fall 04 currently playing u17 now go back to playing u16, etc?
Also.. are we really going to break up teams.. again?
Well no this wouldn’t be a mid season change but yes players could have the potential of replaying a year again. If you don’t want to get broken up (until U18/19) then just play up like before. I know plenty of current 02/03 teams made up of all Seniors that have been that way since U12. They stayed together through all this. |
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Post by Keeper on Sept 1, 2020 15:43:19 GMT -5
Been hearing rumbling of this for most of the year actually. With numbers of players dropping significantly, especially in the younger ages, they are looking to understand why and one of the main reasons is the current calendar year program. Remember USSoccer only cares about money so less players equals less money for them. I say rip the band aid and just go back to what it was and the Aug 1 to July 31 grouping. OMG! My 06G has a July bday, so that would make her a baby on the team she would land on. Yikes. My daughter got into Academy in 2017 at the u12 level so these rules were active for a year. A baby just like she is in her Freshmen(?) class. |
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Post by oraclesfriend on Sept 1, 2020 15:47:41 GMT -5
I don't care what they do as long as they start it for U9 and down and grandfather everyone else. It isn't fair to the kids that have dealt with the change for going on 5 years to force them back into the old way. If you want to experiment with stuff like this it always needs to start with the younger ages and grandfather the old ages out of it. That doesn't make any sense. The last switch wasn't so bad. Make the announcement by the end of this year and do it for everyone. I am actually going to send an email telling them how much I support the change. My oldest has a Jan birthday so it worked great for him and my youngest is later in the year so going back will do a ton for him. Plus it makes more sense to keep kids with their classmates. If you want to keep kids with their classmates then do September 1-August 31. That is actually the school year breakdown for the majority of the country. About no one does August 1 cutoff. Honestly the age group switch hurt my oldest kid in the beginning as an August birthday she went from the oldest to the younger end. She lost a year of soccer compared to 2/3 of her current teammates. If you go back she would be the oldest again but I KNOW she doesn't want that and she doesn't care if she is with her classmates as she has NEVER been on a team with anyone from her school. Neither has my youngest ever played with a schoolmate and her teammates never have more than one or two players on the team that go to school with them. If they want to switch it back for teammate/classmate reasons than switch it for rec and leave academy alone. Most kids that play high level really don't care. They have mostly fixed the gap year issue for 8th graders and seniors don't seem to care from what I have heard from everyone. Btw numbers are down for nearly every sport except lacrosse. That is probably were the numbers drain is going. That and e-sports. |
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Post by oraclesfriend on Sept 1, 2020 15:54:29 GMT -5
So would the kids who lost a year gain it back? Does a fall 04 currently playing u17 now go back to playing u16, etc?
Also.. are we really going to break up teams.. again?
Well no this wouldn’t be a mid season change but yes players could have the potential of replaying a year again. If you don’t want to get broken up (until U18/19) then just play up like before. I know plenty of current 02/03 teams made up of all Seniors that have been that way since U12. They stayed together through all this. I laugh at the comment (just play up) as if it would solely be your choice to play on the team your were on the previous year!!! When there are large numbers of teams at your club and you are playing at a high level but are not a YNT player (and others are) you can't just say "I am playing up with you guys." The coach decides who they take and maybe with those younger kids from the age group ahead of you deciding to switch back then you get pushed down a level if you play up. It is not so easy. |
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Post by mightydawg on Sept 1, 2020 15:57:53 GMT -5
That doesn't make any sense. The last switch wasn't so bad. Make the announcement by the end of this year and do it for everyone. I am actually going to send an email telling them how much I support the change. My oldest has a Jan birthday so it worked great for him and my youngest is later in the year so going back will do a ton for him. Plus it makes more sense to keep kids with their classmates. If you want to keep kids with their classmates then do September 1-August 31. That is actually the school year breakdown for the majority of the country. About no one does August 1 cutoff. Honestly the age group switch hurt my oldest kid in the beginning as an August birthday she went from the oldest to the younger end. She lost a year of soccer compared to 2/3 of her current teammates. If you go back she would be the oldest again but I KNOW she doesn't want that and she doesn't care if she is with her classmates as she has NEVER been on a team with anyone from her school. Neither has my youngest ever played with a schoolmate and her teammates never have more than one or two players on the team that go to school with them. If they want to switch it back for teammate/classmate reasons than switch it for rec and leave academy alone. Most kids that play high level really don't care. They have mostly fixed the gap year issue for 8th graders and seniors don't seem to care from what I have heard from everyone. Btw numbers are down for nearly every sport except lacrosse. That is probably were the numbers drain is going. That and e-sports. Exactly, the convenient truth that no one actually mentions--the soccer calendar and the school calendar never lined up. Throw in kids that held back in school, sorry, I meant redshirted, and there is really no rationale basis for favoring one calendar over the other. If you want to play with school mates, play soccer at school (soccer that is regularly trashed by the forum). Otherwise, it is just arguing about what 3 or 4 month period out of the year will have the age advantage. |
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Post by DunwoodySoccerDad on Sept 1, 2020 15:59:55 GMT -5
If they want to switch it back for teammate/classmate reasons than switch it for rec and leave academy alone. Most kids that play high level really don't care. They have mostly fixed the gap year issue for 8th graders and seniors don't seem to care from what I have heard from everyone. Can you expand on this? My daughter will get caught in this next year (currently a 7th grader). She can play middle school soccer but the season is short as you probably know. I'm curious as to what most kids caught in this gap year do in the spring of their 8th grade year when their 9th-grade club teammates are playing HS soccer. Thanks and I'll hang up and listen . . . |
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Post by atlfutboldad on Sept 1, 2020 16:00:47 GMT -5
1 - Why would any team have to "break up"? The calendar year change was a MANDATE, the academic year HAD NO MANDATE and allows you to play with your peers OR your birth year. Pretty amazingly flexible, no?
2 - You don't LOSE a year in the academic year system. You "get to" play with your birth year OR play with your school year (or play with your school year AND play up with your birth year when needed). Not sure why the gnashing of teeth on this "oh no, our team will be broken up!" No...they won't...if they don't want to.
3 - With the calendar year, all kids born Aug 1-Dec 31 have a wasted spring their U15 year (play middle school if available or just sit out). Then their senior year, most of their teammates have already graduated, so they "get to" sit in on a team of Juniors if they want to keep playing. I bet there is a TON of 2nd half year kids who quit because their team is already moved on.
It would seem to me that the only ones against is are people with kids born Jan 1-July 31, panicking for no reason.
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Post by atlfutboldad on Sept 1, 2020 16:03:05 GMT -5
I laugh at the comment (just play up) as if it would solely be your choice to play on the team your were on the previous year!!! When there are large numbers of teams at your club and you are playing at a high level but are not a YNT player (and others are) you can't just say "I am playing up with you guys." The coach decides who they take and maybe with those younger kids from the age group ahead of you deciding to switch back then you get pushed down a level if you play up. It is not so easy.
So you're essentially saying they weren't good enough to be playing with their calendar year teammates in the first place? If they cannot "re-make" the team, perhaps they should be playing a year down, no?
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Post by bogan on Sept 1, 2020 16:04:05 GMT -5
If they want to switch it back for teammate/classmate reasons than switch it for rec and leave academy alone. Most kids that play high level really don't care. They have mostly fixed the gap year issue for 8th graders and seniors don't seem to care from what I have heard from everyone. Can you expand on this? My daughter will get caught in this next year (currently a 7th grader). She can play middle school soccer but the season is short as you probably know. I'm curious as to what most kids caught in this gap year do in the spring of their 8th grade year when their 9th-grade club teammates are playing HS soccer. Thanks and I'll hang up and listen . . . We are still trying to figure this out-probably train privately and play tennis and/or run track. |
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