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Post by Soccerhouse on Sept 21, 2014 8:24:21 GMT -5
hum, then time for ga soccer to intervene and start classic I, II at u12 with no kept standings.....
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Post by jash on Sept 21, 2014 12:23:22 GMT -5
It's mostly a business decision for clubs. You can carry 18 on an 11v11 team. You can only realistically carry 12-13 on an 8v8 team. That's a difference of $5-8K depending on the club and the fee structure. Plus parents generally like it more. Most people are in a rush to get to the "real soccer." Yes, yep, yeah. It's a business decision that also strokes the ego of parents, who coincidentally pay the bills. |
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Post by jash on Sept 21, 2014 12:23:47 GMT -5
hum, then time for ga soccer to intervene and start classic I, II at u12 with no kept standings..... And have a backbone and force it to be 8v8. |
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Post by SoccerMom on Sept 21, 2014 15:09:09 GMT -5
Question.... Whose kids went to 11v11 at u12? My kids did and it worked great for them. Of the ones that are here saying they dont like it or do how many actually did.
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Post by jash on Sept 21, 2014 21:27:03 GMT -5
Question.... Whose kids went to 11v11 at u12? My kids did and it worked great for them. Of the ones that are here saying they dont like it or do how many actually did. Mine did and it was OK. I was against it but we had no choice. Then again, often things seem just fine but aren't great for player development. For example some teams find a tremendous amount of success by having one really fast forward and a keeper with a very strong leg. Punt, run, score, repeat. It seems like it's great because they win a lot at the young ages, but they aren't learning good soccer. This is obviously an extreme example, but it falls into the same category. For every one kid that benefits from this there will probably be 10 that it fails because they have fewer touches on the ball and play on fields that are too big for them both physically and mentally. And don't even get me started on the keepers trying to deal with goals the size of houses (to them). But the very worst thing about this is the slippery slope that is demonstrably happening. U11 teams playing 11v11? If enough "elite" teams do it, then everybody will feel like they have to do it in order to keep up. I think this nonsense stems primarily from the parents who want their kids to be "real soccer players" on "elite teams" as young as possible, and while for the majority of the kids it won't make any difference at all long term (because they won't have soccer careers anyway), it fails soccer development in this country. And with each step on the slippery slope to 11v11 U5 teams it gets worse and worse. |
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Post by SoccerMom on Sept 23, 2014 11:31:35 GMT -5
hum, then time for ga soccer to intervene and start classic I, II at u12 with no kept standings..... And have a backbone and force it to be 8v8. they do enforce it for ODP though which I think is all they can control. First year of ODP is 8v8 and these are u12 players that have been playing 11v11 for a while |
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Post by soccergator on Oct 12, 2014 8:27:56 GMT -5
hum, hearing rumors from folks about some u11 teams jumping to 11v11 in the spring. don't like it one bit! word is concorde north is doing it.
don't mind a scrimmage hear or there, but not a full schedule.
hopefully their is some discussion amongst DOCs before the spring and next year. problem is if 3-4 teams choose to play classic u13 next year as 12s, the other top teams will be left with very few challenging games.
nasty ripple affect..
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Post by silverback on Oct 12, 2014 19:27:19 GMT -5
I am also a fan of staying 8v8. IMO, it is much better to get more touches in a smaller space than try to manage a field that is much too large for the younger players. In fact, I think U13 is still to young to move to 11v11, but not one of those battles I really want to pick ;-)
Question - Other than preparing for U13, what are the advantages to moving up to the larger field? I don't think you move a top team to play a C3 level team. Top teams should play top teams of comparable talent level. With that said, the challenge is when all the top teams move to the larger field and there isn't enough top teams to play 8v8.
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Post by allthingsoccer on Oct 13, 2014 8:08:07 GMT -5
I'm all for it.
I mean my sons team is a top U11 team and we already play up and play U12's 2nd teams. When we play our age group its not even fun or beneficial for growth. Maybe 1 or 2 games out of the season will be close in our age group. Even then, when we play, up the games are still 5-0, 4-1 etc... They can't play top level U12 because the top U12 are already playing and scheduled. So it's getting harder and harder to get good solid games. The only way is to go play in tournaments which is a huge extra cost.
The top U12 team is playing C2 and is moving to C1 in spring. We are switching to 11v11 in Spring and going into C2 next year just to get better comp.
GA hasnt dropped the ball. 11v11 is all around us. The Disney showcase for example has 2x U12 11v11 divisions. They are under the U13 tab. And most other top tournaments are doing this as well in other states. The time to control it has past. If the largest tournaments in the US are opening the doors for 11v11 in U12 then most clubs will push for it.
So if most top U12 teams are 11v11 then what's happening is that the top U11 teams are splitting 8v8 and 11v11. If they have the numbers some U11 teams are playing 11v11 in Spring to get ready for Classic 2/3 the following year.
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Post by allthingsoccer on Oct 13, 2014 8:25:04 GMT -5
soccergator... not sure where you heard that from but if thats the case then I'm all for it. The U12 boys are killing C2 and moving to C1. How can you hold a team back from further development? So the U12 team shouldnt have moved to C2? Last year they should stayed playing 8v8 all year round?? How is that benefiting the development of the player.
Even this year we have one or two teams in U11 that are not developing as a team and hurting player development. So 9-0, 13-0, 7-0 games are really what we want for our kids. I heard that the North black team took a player out (played a man down on purpose) and they still won 9-0.
DOC's are already doing it. You already have 4 or 5 U12's playing classic.
It's hard to schedule if no one wants to play you. I know this is true for two top U11 teams.
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Post by jash on Oct 13, 2014 9:22:14 GMT -5
That's the spirit... I'm talking to my DOC tomorrow night about why our U6 teams aren't playing 11v11 yet. We want to get a jump on the other clubs and once we do and everybody follows suit, there won't be any top teams left playing 4v4 with no goalie. I'm going to recommend full-sized goals but provide a bench for the keepers to stand on so they can reach a little higher.
All kidding aside, the problem here is once someone starts doing it, then everyone starts doing it, and then it stays like that for a little while, then it pushes down another age group. The fact that Disney has 11v11 U12 brackets is not an indication that we SHOULD be doing it, it is an indication that we ARE doing it. The tail is wagging the dog.
Stop the madness, parents, because the clubs won't as long as we keep paying them more per coach (11v11 is much better than 6v6 for player/coach ratio) and as long as we keep insisting that our elite players are developmentally different from established best practices and are ready years before kids in any other country.
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Post by SoccerMom on Oct 13, 2014 10:28:17 GMT -5
I agree with j4k, its a per team thing and it shouldn't be a statewide thing. If youre a top u11 team, its very hard to find competition other than 3 or 4 other teams..it doesn't help either team when the scores are 9-0. If your team can do it, then do it
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Post by Soccerhouse on Oct 13, 2014 11:54:27 GMT -5
Agree with soccergator not sure if u11s needs to be playing 11v11 on a regular basis. It will cause all teams to shift that way. The problem is teams are playing a schedule that accommodates the entire academy. Hence why ga soccer shouldn't have allowed u12s to play u13. don't care if they are doing well or win the group. I'm sure teams have been doing it, now it seems its going to become the standard. And once you go classic/athena, winning becomes a little bit more important vs development etc. |
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Post by SoccerMom on Oct 13, 2014 13:08:26 GMT -5
I see what youre saying but when a team is beating everyone by that much how are they developing??
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Post by allthingsoccer on Oct 13, 2014 13:14:49 GMT -5
I agree that a standard has to be put in place or it will get out of hand. (already is)
The issue has to be addressed for top younger teams to be able to play up an age group or two. Maybe the top 3-5 teams in the age group get invited to play classic at U12. The key word here is invited. This would mean controlled so we don't have the wild wild west and as an earlier post mentioned at U9 for 11v11... (that was funny). Be all kidding aside it is a huge problem. This starts at U10 that the team just plays teams not at same level. How does one develop having 10 games at 9-0, 5-0 etc... They dont.
Soccergator is right that the DOC's must start talking. The DOC's of the top teams need to talk and agree to play one another at the very least and then talk about the future of those top teams. Challenge them as a player and as a team. If that means have them play one another twice a season and then play a few top teams an age level up so be it. We only play one team in the top 5 for our age group and the other one already cancelled. Why schedule us to play teams that we have to go a man down or play keep away. Urg! Sorry just really frustrated. We pay a small fortune to help develop our kids and the club/ league does nothing. I know I'm not the only one for sure.
The standard isnt just GA soccer btw... My son played U7-u9 academy in Florida and they didnt even have off-sides.... Craziest thing ever.
We have no set standard at all for soccer. Yes much easier to have a state standard but we are a long ways away from a unified big picture.
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Post by SoccerMom on Oct 13, 2014 13:59:38 GMT -5
for us at u11, we only played 5 other teams, our team wouldn't play some clubs, we would let our second team play them and they would beat them no problem, imagine if we had played them? Our coach just did scrimmages against 2nd or 3rd teams within our clubs 2 age groups up
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Post by allthingsoccer on Oct 14, 2014 10:42:37 GMT -5
I know it's crazy. We see the same thing. We play lots of 6v6, 8v8 and 11v11 between our inter-club teams. More competitive really. Hope Disney provides what we are missing. It better for what we are spending  |
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Post by alacrity174 on Oct 14, 2014 12:21:01 GMT -5
Guys trust me you have a Loooong way to go from u11 (10 year olds)to playing competitive soccer. You may think you are the Top Team in the State of GA but remember not every club or team is putting all the supposedly best players consistently on the same team, the club academy level is supposed to develop the players. Some of the comments about needing to play 11 v 11 on a full size field make me hang my head in shame, small sided games with 16 players is much more beneficial to the player development, every country that is experiencing success at the International level is doing the exact opposite of what is being touted here.
Come U12 there may be some teams (Very few in my opinion),that have some potential to play in the Classic/Athena ranks however if you can't hang with the top bracket why even bother? Classic 2/Athena B teams are not the level of competition you are looking for, much better to keep the teams to age appropriate and develop, how about your coach introducing rules into the game, whereby all attacking players much touch the ball before scoring>there are many ways to make a game challenging without thinking playing up is the answer.
One other thing to consider is what happens to the Classic/Athena groups when you decide to drop down to age appropriate, how does this help anyones development?
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Post by SoccerMom on Oct 14, 2014 12:25:20 GMT -5
Guys trust me you have a Loooong way to go from u11 (10 year olds)to playing competitive soccer. You may think you are the Top Team in the State of GA but remember not every club or team is putting all the supposedly best players consistently on the same team, the club academy level is supposed to develop the players. Some of the comments about needing to play 11 v 11 on a full size field make me hang my head in shame, small sided games with 16 players is much more beneficial to the player development, every country that is experiencing success at the International level is doing the exact opposite of what is being touted here. Come U12 there may be some teams (Very few in my opinion),that have some potential to play in the Classic/Athena ranks however if you can't hang with the top bracket why even bother? Classic 2/Athena B teams are not the level of competition you are looking for, much better to keep the teams to age appropriate and develop, how about your coach introducing rules into the game, whereby all attacking players much touch the ball before scoring>there are many ways to make a game challenging without thinking playing up is the answer. One other thing to consider is what happens to the Classic/Athena groups when you decide to drop down to age appropriate, how does this help anyones development? Its probably the reason why now the U13's get to go to RPL early, no sense in playing 1/2 those teams twice. |
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