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Post by insideinfo on Jun 8, 2022 19:39:30 GMT -5
Well, well...I'm happy I gave you few folks an opportunity to vent your beliefs. It's great to see people are still passionate, whichever side you fall. It's what makes this world go round. I really never received a valid answer to my original question. Only name calling, judgmental accusatory rants while twisting my words to make you somehow feel worthy, or better than me. Just a wee bit hypocritical, don't you think? This will be my last post so ya'll simmer down. Some insinuated they didn't have the time to respond to such nonsense, but they somehow found a way. I just want to leave one final thought to ponder: I believe in a God and a creator. I don't think we just appeared. I have nothing to lose to believe this way...you do if you don't. "So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them. God blessed them and said to them, "Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air and over every living creature that moves on the ground." Old Chinese proverb: ...the reason your, (enter adjective of your choice), buttocks are on this planet is because your parents were straight Last time I checked gay women could still have kids? I didn't know the uterus stopped working once they kissed a girl If you don't like gay people, then don't sleep with one. I have always found that the most homophobic people tend to be closeted homosexuals. Is there something you need to get off your chest? Its ok we are here for you |
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hgth
Jr. Academy
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Post by hgth on Jun 8, 2022 19:57:28 GMT -5
Well, well...I'm happy I gave you few folks an opportunity to vent your beliefs. It's great to see people are still passionate, whichever side you fall. It's what makes this world go round. I really never received a valid answer to my original question. Only name calling, judgmental accusatory rants while twisting my words to make you somehow feel worthy, or better than me. Just a wee bit hypocritical, don't you think? This will be my last post so ya'll simmer down. Some insinuated they didn't have the time to respond to such nonsense, but they somehow found a way. I just want to leave one final thought to ponder: I believe in a God and a creator. I don't think we just appeared. I have nothing to lose to believe this way...you do if you don't. "So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them. God blessed them and said to them, "Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air and over every living creature that moves on the ground." Old Chinese proverb: ...the reason your, (enter adjective of your choice), buttocks are on this planet is because your parents were straight Last time I checked gay women could still have kids? I didn't know the uterus stopped working once they kissed a girl If you don't like gay people, then don't sleep with one. I have always found that the most homophobic people tend to be closeted homosexuals. Is there something you need to get off your chest? Its ok we are here for you |
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Post by bogan on Jun 8, 2022 20:07:56 GMT -5
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Post by 3clubmom on Jun 8, 2022 21:02:14 GMT -5
Everything else you said was fine, and I said I wasn't going to get into this, but I have to address this. Biological males have no business in Girls sports whether they identify as female or not. You aren't in the majority on your thoughts here. Most people just won't tell you what they think on the topic because of cancel culture. It is not fair to biological women to put male athletes in girls sports leagues. The science shows that even on hormone suppression therapy that the advantage a male gets due to going through puberty with male hormones do not go away with hormone suppression therapy later in life no matter how long you are on such therapy. Its the inconvenient scientific fact that the trans crowd don't want to admit or talk about. I don't know what the solution is to the trans people in sports issue. I would say create an open class where both sexes can compete would be the obvious answer but also has its issues as well. I just know female athletes that this has affected, and if one is truly for women's rights and equality allowing biological males in their sporting leagues is not equality at all. I got no issue with people calling themselves whatever they want to, but to infringe on women's sports is unfair to women. First, I should say I truly don't care if I'm in the majority on anything I think. I should also say that my views did not come to me in the form of an epiphany. I had to learn a lot. Much of what I have learned, I learned from my kids and their friends. So I can understand being reluctant or thinking it's unfair. That's why I suggested that the OP asks the question as objectively as possible to their kid "Do you really care?" Trans women are women. At least in my view. So to say that somehow things aren't equal when women play with women doesn't make any sense. In GA for example 0.8% of the adult population identifies as trans. An even smaller number of that population plays soccer. The percentage shrinks again when you consider how very few people actually have the ability to play soccer in college (that applies to my kids as well). It shrinks again when you take into consideration that some trans people decide to not go through hormone therapy and stay on the side of soccer that aligns with their biological sex (e.g. Quinn and Yokoyama). The likelihood that this would ever directly affect my kids lessens again when you add in college preferences, and location of their college of choices. MTF trans women need to complete at least 1 year of hormone therapy before they are able to compete in the NCAA on the women's side and even then, it's up to the coaches. So when I said every single thing needs to fall into place for this to even be a possibility, I meant it. This hypothetical player who's out to take my daughter's spot would need to time things just right, and find the right school, and somehow avoid being a part of the rising suicide rate among trans teens. If somehow everything fell into place, I can't say the kid doesn't deserve it more than mine, they probably do. On every team there's always going to be a player who runs faster, pushes harder, is all around a better athlete. Sometimes (very few times) that player happens to be trans. This idea that a bunch of men are going to put on wigs and claim to be transgender just to be able to play college or pro sports is irrational and based in fear. Not to mention you need a diagnosis. There are around 37 athletes who are openly trans at the professional and collegiate levels out of the 75 million people in the U.S. who play sports. Trans athletes are a "hot topic", but they're not exactly taking the sports world by storm. My kids don't care how their teammates identify, they just want to play. As a parent it's my job to get them to practices, games, get along well with their coaches and the refs, take them to ID camps, tournaments, and showcases on time and with a clean uniform. Other than that it's really none of my business what players do off the field. The NCAA will make decisions they feel are best for their athletes and I'll make sure my kids are in compliance when it comes time for college. Neither of my daughters are white. They weren't even represented on the USWNT until the mid 80s. Who am I to try to stand in the way of another parent looking for the same validation for their child? I just want to say that your posts are giving me life. All too frequently on this forum we see homophobic, misogynistic, [insert other isms] posts. Thank you for saying everything I have been thinking and helping me remember that we are not alone in our thinking. What club do you belong to? |
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Post by dabe on Jun 8, 2022 21:40:22 GMT -5
Is it ok to not be sure what we think? It seems that too often people pick a side on an issue, and then refuse to change their mind. I'm not sure... If it's soccer or another team sport, it seems ok. But in a sport like swimming or track, idk, it does seem unfair to biological born females. Even if there are not that many trans athletes. Even one, who breaks a record, can have an effect on many. Yes! It's okay to not know where you stand. I didn't emphasize how much I truly had to learn. I was extremely uncomfortable with the idea of people transitioning. I never went out of my way to make trans people feel excluded, but I didn't work to make them feel included either. There's a lot to learn and it can be overwhelming. Not as overwhelming as it is for trans players. I would suggest listening to trans players directly and what they have to say. They know the most about the issues and can convey their message the best. Things don't get lost in translation. I've always loved the saying "We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak." My daughter sent me this video a while ago and I think it's a good place to start. |
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Post by dabe on Jun 8, 2022 22:22:04 GMT -5
First, I should say I truly don't care if I'm in the majority on anything I think. I should also say that my views did not come to me in the form of an epiphany. I had to learn a lot. Much of what I have learned, I learned from my kids and their friends. So I can understand being reluctant or thinking it's unfair. That's why I suggested that the OP asks the question as objectively as possible to their kid "Do you really care?" Trans women are women. At least in my view. So to say that somehow things aren't equal when women play with women doesn't make any sense. In GA for example 0.8% of the adult population identifies as trans. An even smaller number of that population plays soccer. The percentage shrinks again when you consider how very few people actually have the ability to play soccer in college (that applies to my kids as well). It shrinks again when you take into consideration that some trans people decide to not go through hormone therapy and stay on the side of soccer that aligns with their biological sex (e.g. Quinn and Yokoyama). The likelihood that this would ever directly affect my kids lessens again when you add in college preferences, and location of their college of choices. MTF trans women need to complete at least 1 year of hormone therapy before they are able to compete in the NCAA on the women's side and even then, it's up to the coaches. So when I said every single thing needs to fall into place for this to even be a possibility, I meant it. This hypothetical player who's out to take my daughter's spot would need to time things just right, and find the right school, and somehow avoid being a part of the rising suicide rate among trans teens. If somehow everything fell into place, I can't say the kid doesn't deserve it more than mine, they probably do. On every team there's always going to be a player who runs faster, pushes harder, is all around a better athlete. Sometimes (very few times) that player happens to be trans. This idea that a bunch of men are going to put on wigs and claim to be transgender just to be able to play college or pro sports is irrational and based in fear. Not to mention you need a diagnosis. There are around 37 athletes who are openly trans at the professional and collegiate levels out of the 75 million people in the U.S. who play sports. Trans athletes are a "hot topic", but they're not exactly taking the sports world by storm. My kids don't care how their teammates identify, they just want to play. As a parent it's my job to get them to practices, games, get along well with their coaches and the refs, take them to ID camps, tournaments, and showcases on time and with a clean uniform. Other than that it's really none of my business what players do off the field. The NCAA will make decisions they feel are best for their athletes and I'll make sure my kids are in compliance when it comes time for college. Neither of my daughters are white. They weren't even represented on the USWNT until the mid 80s. Who am I to try to stand in the way of another parent looking for the same validation for their child? I just want to say that your posts are giving me life. All too frequently on this forum we see homophobic, misogynistic, [insert other isms] posts. Thank you for saying everything I have been thinking and helping me remember that we are not alone in our thinking. What club do you belong to? I try my best, I didn't know things were this blatant. I try to avoid talk about pro soccer to keep from pissing myself off. I do have to give most of the credit to my daughters. We're at AFU and UFA this year. Still a DDY family at heart. |
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Post by lovetokickit on Jun 9, 2022 7:21:56 GMT -5
Well, well...I'm happy I gave you few folks an opportunity to vent your beliefs. It's great to see people are still passionate, whichever side you fall. It's what makes this world go round. I really never received a valid answer to my original question. Only name calling, judgmental accusatory rants while twisting my words to make you somehow feel worthy, or better than me. Just a wee bit hypocritical, don't you think? This will be my last post so ya'll simmer down. Some insinuated they didn't have the time to respond to such nonsense, but they somehow found a way. I just want to leave one final thought to ponder: I believe in a God and a creator. I don't think we just appeared. I have nothing to lose to believe this way...you do if you don't. "So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them. God blessed them and said to them, "Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air and over every living creature that moves on the ground." Old Chinese proverb: ...the reason your, (enter adjective of your choice), buttocks are on this planet is because your parents were straight Keep the Chinese people out of your foolishness... Nothing about that proverb is Chinese. |
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Post by slickdaddy96 on Jun 9, 2022 9:26:55 GMT -5
The transgender issue is definitely an interesting one in sports, but I think most have focused on male puberty in this discussion. What of those that transition before puberty? It happens. What of those that started but didn't finish puberty? I think the science is still young on this issue. But I will leave this thought for you, there are competitive advantages that are biological. How about the 5'6" volleyball or basketball player vs the 6'8"? The Micheal Phelps wingspan that is greater than it should be based on his height? What about the financial advantages that some have over others? Just food for thought. See I also think this is a moral slippery slope akin to child abuse and/or malpractice to allow parents and doctors to give children (who don't know what they want half the time at the ages younger than puberty) hormone blockers to transition them as kids. There are plenty of studies that show the mental health issues continue and get worse when these people are transitioning either prior to puberty or even after puberty. There are also studies that a large portion of these transgender folks regret the decision in transitioning. I honestly think there should be laws against messing with the natural biology of a kid's body until they are 18 except where such medicine is needed to save the life of the child. I think there are too may progressive folks that are virtue signaling through their child forcing them to do stuff the kid really doesn't want to do, but want to please their parents so they go along with it. There is plenty of time after the kid turns 18 to then decide as an adult what they want to do or be. Doing things before their 18 I think is just a moral slippery slope, and I'm not talking Religious morality. I'm talking about human morality. |
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Post by notcrazysoccerdad on Jun 9, 2022 9:35:05 GMT -5
The transgender issue is definitely an interesting one in sports, but I think most have focused on male puberty in this discussion. What of those that transition before puberty? It happens. What of those that started but didn't finish puberty? I think the science is still young on this issue. But I will leave this thought for you, there are competitive advantages that are biological. How about the 5'6" volleyball or basketball player vs the 6'8"? The Micheal Phelps wingspan that is greater than it should be based on his height? What about the financial advantages that some have over others? Just food for thought. See I also think this is a moral slippery slope akin to child abuse and/or malpractice to allow parents and doctors to give children (who don't know what they want half the time at the ages younger than puberty) hormone blockers to transition them as kids. There are plenty of studies that show the mental health issues continue and get worse when these people are transitioning either prior to puberty or even after puberty. There are also studies that a large portion of these transgender folks regret the decision in transitioning. I honestly think there should be laws messing with the natural biology of a kid's body until they are 18 except where such medicine is needed to save the life of the child. I think there are too may progressive folks that are virtue signaling through their child forcing them to do stuff the kid really doesn't want to do, but want to please their parents so they go along with it. Indeed. Who are parents to help make important medical decisions for children! Next thing you know, parents will want to help decide what children learn in school or which church they attend!!! |
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Post by slickdaddy96 on Jun 9, 2022 9:43:02 GMT -5
See I also think this is a moral slippery slope akin to child abuse and/or malpractice to allow parents and doctors to give children (who don't know what they want half the time at the ages younger than puberty) hormone blockers to transition them as kids. There are plenty of studies that show the mental health issues continue and get worse when these people are transitioning either prior to puberty or even after puberty. There are also studies that a large portion of these transgender folks regret the decision in transitioning. I honestly think there should be laws messing with the natural biology of a kid's body until they are 18 except where such medicine is needed to save the life of the child. I think there are too may progressive folks that are virtue signaling through their child forcing them to do stuff the kid really doesn't want to do, but want to please their parents so they go along with it. Indeed. Who are parents to help make important medical decisions for children! Next thing you know, parents will want to help decide what children learn in school or which church they attend!!! You mistaken me making my point in the frame of a religious aspect. It was not. I am purely worried about the medical and scientific understanding of what doing such transitioning before puberty does to the person long term. The science is not mature enough to know this. I think this is why most doctors are reluctant or refuse to do such transitioning before the person is 18 or at least before puberty. People that do it now in my opinion are letting their kids participate in medical experimentation with a lack of good data out on long-term prognosis. At least when the child becomes an adult, legally they can decide what they want to do. |
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Post by soccerlegacy on Jun 9, 2022 13:17:36 GMT -5
Indeed. Who are parents to help make important medical decisions for children! Next thing you know, parents will want to help decide what children learn in school or which church they attend!!! You mistaken me making my point in the frame of a religious aspect. It was not. I am purely worried about the medical and scientific understanding of what doing such transitioning before puberty does to the person long term. The science is not mature enough to know this. I think this is why most doctors are reluctant or refuse to do such transitioning before the person is 18 or at least before puberty. People that do it now in my opinion are letting their kids participate in medical experimentation with a lack of good data out on long-term prognosis. At least when the child becomes an adult, legally they can decide what they want to do. Not to mention this slippery slope has even more complexity when you toss in social media and main stream media seemingly having a slanted bias to one side of the argument dealing with trans-rights and kids. The explosion in Gender Dysphoria cases has caught even some of the most "pro-trans" people off-guard and caused even them to look at WHY this is happening. (I'm talking about psychologists specializing in this area, along with adults who have made the choice to transition). It seems the majority of media today could also almost be too affirming and causing kids that had no signs of gender dysphoria to all of a sudden make life-altering decisions because they are given praise for "being brave" and "who they really are". I mean, who doesn't like being recognized as something virtuous and special. As most can attest, social influence can play a huge part in a kids life. Here is a good article on Science.org from a Brown University study, talking about " rapid onset transgender identity" and quote from it: "Ray Blanchard, a professor of psychiatry at the University of Toronto in Canada who worked for 15 years in a gender identity clinic that screened candidates for sex reassignment surgery, says the paper points to a clear phenomenon: a new subgroup of adolescents, mainly women, with gender dysphoria and no behavioral signs of such dysphoria during childhood"There are other articles about "over-diagnosing" as well. Look, I'm a 'live and let live' type of person, but I also don't want to see others led down a path because nobody is willing to look at an issue from all sides simply because people are too afraid to speak up when things don't add up. |
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Post by Whistledown on Jun 9, 2022 15:44:50 GMT -5
Ya'll keep posting legitimate studies and resources like this guy is actually going to read any of them.....
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Post by slickdaddy96 on Jun 9, 2022 15:55:17 GMT -5
Ya'll keep posting legitimate studies and resources like this guy is actually going to read any of them..... No but I tried to turn an otherwise pretty bad or negative thread or at least not tactfully done at minimum into something that there can be legitimate debate and talk about which was transgenders in sports. I know these hot button topics are hard to debate, but I think for the most part people kept it civil and you know from my history here I'm not always civil!  |
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Post by Futsal Gawdess on Jun 14, 2022 18:17:52 GMT -5
What do you think about Atlanta United "showing our Pride" pushing Pride Month on the youth at their summer camps? When did youth soccer become a vehicle to promote agendas to support subjects of morality? Do they think it will increase the fan base enough to offset the losses of fans like myself? They can scratch me from the next two RDS training camps that were on my calendar. That will save me $600, plus any tickets to AU games. Or could it be big brother paying off money hungry sports franchises to push their beliefs? AU, you should be so proud of yourself to award your MVP 10 & 11 yr old campers with autographed Pride jerseys.... Oh my lawd, what do you think about Atlanta United "co-mingling" fans with the first team and pushing the narrative that non-soccer players can be on the same fields as members of our first team. I can't believe Atlanta United allowed current non-athletes to even be on the same field as our Atlanta United studs, much less allow them to get this close to take pictures. Before you know it, they will use this to push for members of the first team to visit their summer camps, geesh. They can scratch me from attending the next 17s day at the training ground, I mean the city of Marietta looses out on my bus ticket to Franklin Gateway, but on this I stand firm. Do you think it could be big brother trying to get us to believe in a potential rabid fan base and make them feel like part of the AU Family? AU, you should be so proud of yourself to award a signed jersey to a 40 year old fan who happens to be a season ticket holder. I mean, what is this world coming to... |
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Post by atlfutboldad on Jun 15, 2022 8:15:25 GMT -5
This ^ raises a question for me. Any time I've seen a fan competition at an AU game for some prize (usually a half time thing), it's as if the fans chosen have NEVER kicked a soccer ball in their life.
How is this possible? There are that many footie fans who don't know how to kick a ball? We have had literally tens of millions of kids go through our rec/club/HS systems over the past 4 decades.
Tongue somewhat implanted in cheek.
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Post by bogan on Jun 15, 2022 8:20:05 GMT -5
This ^ raises a question for me. Any time I've seen a fan competition at an AU game for some prize (usually a half time thing), it's as if the fans chosen have NEVER kicked a soccer ball in their life. How is this possible? There are that many footie fans who don't know how to kick a ball? We have had literally tens of millions of kids go through our rec/club/HS systems over the past 4 decades. Tongue somewhat implanted in cheek. Kicking a ball is hard… |
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