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Post by soccerparentx on Aug 22, 2022 9:57:30 GMT -5
I am wondering if anyone has observations about the quality of play across the different leagues.
I've seen teams across all of the different leagues and I'm observing the disparity starting at U13 (for boys).
It seemed like you began to see the gap at U12. But as soon as the kids move to the big field -- let the kick ball and track meets begin.
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Post by newposter on Aug 22, 2022 12:20:06 GMT -5
Disagree with comment on the big field as that was not our experience. Kid played in the back at ecnl at one of the Big 5. They were coached how to move the ball through the middle making overuns. It was a beautiful game to watch. Great coaches teach great fundamentals. Great players listen and apply that playing philosophy. If they dont, they dont play long.
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Post by soulsurvivin on Aug 22, 2022 20:02:32 GMT -5
I’ve seen some quality teams at u12 and u13 levels. It just depends on the coach and personnel. For example, if there are not skills players who can play out of the back, you tend to see more punt and run.
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Post by soulsurvivin on Aug 22, 2022 20:02:44 GMT -5
I’ve seen some quality teams at u12 and u13 levels. It just depends on the coach and personnel. For example, if there are not skills players who can play out of the back, you tend to see more punt and run.
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Post by baller84 on Aug 22, 2022 20:35:38 GMT -5
Politics aside, imagine all in a single inclusive pro/rel league today with division levels based on merit only. Other than travel to a few preseason or postseason tourneys, it would save a ton of money/time on season travel and the competition would be insane. Just a thought ...
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Post by rifle on Aug 22, 2022 20:49:46 GMT -5
Politics aside, imagine all in a single inclusive pro/rel league today with division levels based on merit only. Other than travel to a few preseason or postseason tourneys, it would save a ton of money/time on season travel and the competition would be insane. Just a thought ... Not only that, the low and mid level teams could play against similar level competition. You’ll always have players jumping to the best team they can find… But I agree it would be a lot better than the alphabet soup |
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Post by bogan on Aug 23, 2022 1:16:30 GMT -5
Politics aside, imagine all in a single inclusive pro/rel league today with division levels based on merit only. Other than travel to a few preseason or postseason tourneys, it would save a ton of money/time on season travel and the competition would be insane. Just a thought ... But, but…my kid wouldn’t play on a team labeled “elite”… All jokes aside, too much money being made the way things are for anything to change substantially. |
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Post by socceristhebest on Aug 23, 2022 10:51:18 GMT -5
Well, somewhat of a controversial opinion also.
if the mega clubs don't have enough field space for teams, they are carrying to many teams.
Higher level older teams should NOT be training with 3 teams on a field, 1/2 a field minimum should be standard.
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Post by atlfutboldad on Aug 23, 2022 11:56:49 GMT -5
Politics aside, imagine all in a single inclusive pro/rel league today with division levels based on merit only. Other than travel to a few preseason or postseason tourneys, it would save a ton of money/time on season travel and the competition would be insane. Just a thought ... Human nature, the rotation and revolution of the planet aside, things seem pretty constant.
What you're discussing existed prior to 2009. As I understand it, the problem with pro/rel from the start is politics. When clubs can lobby for spots, the system is instantaneously corrupted and ruined. Well, that and lack of birth certificate requirement.
It obviously had a myriad of problems, hence we have what we have now. Sometimes you have one chance to get things right, USYS and GA Soccer failed. The best players should gravitate to clubs/teams in the best leagues.
For all its travel and exclusionary rules, ECNL/ECNL-R/SCCL Club have been consistent, fair leagues. The same cannot be said for what GA Soccer was.
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Post by atlutd17 on Aug 23, 2022 21:34:52 GMT -5
Politics aside, imagine all in a single inclusive pro/rel league today with division levels based on merit only. Other than travel to a few preseason or postseason tourneys, it would save a ton of money/time on season travel and the competition would be insane. Just a thought ... Human nature, the rotation and revolution of the planet aside, things seem pretty constant.
What you're discussing existed prior to 2009. As I understand it, the problem with pro/rel from the start is politics. When clubs can lobby for spots, the system is instantaneously corrupted and ruined. Well, that and lack of birth certificate requirement.
It obviously had a myriad of problems, hence we have what we have now. Sometimes you have one chance to get things right, USYS and GA Soccer failed. The best players should gravitate to clubs/teams in the best leagues.
For all its travel and exclusionary rules, ECNL/ECNL-R/SCCL Club have been consistent, fair leagues. The same cannot be said for what GA Soccer was.
Yes they failed but not on the very idea of inclusivity or merit, and the rest of the world is proof. They (USSF mostly) failed on leadership, governance and management. And naturally since the main issue is at the top, the problem is that today's alphabet soup exclusive leagues system is failing even worse because its top priority is club profit through less competition, not the game. |
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Post by atlutd17 on Aug 23, 2022 21:38:45 GMT -5
Well, somewhat of a controversial opinion also. if the mega clubs don't have enough field space for teams, they are carrying to many teams. Higher level older teams should NOT be training with 3 teams on a field, 1/2 a field minimum should be standard. That's how the money is made by the big boys at the expense of the players and the sport. It's called "process" by some. |
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Post by coffee on Aug 23, 2022 22:07:14 GMT -5
Well, somewhat of a controversial opinion also. if the mega clubs don't have enough field space for teams, they are carrying to many teams. Higher level older teams should NOT be training with 3 teams on a field, 1/2 a field minimum should be standard. Thats ridiculous. During regular season? Where does that happen? Ok, yeah. I do remember a _way_ over crowded training field at Tophat Milton at Kings Ridge for the year we were there. They were building a new field. We left, but I assumed the new field had relieved the overcrowding. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 24, 2022 9:40:50 GMT -5
Just dropping ECNL-R would be a massive benefit to the soccer structure in GA. It is that league primarily that screws it all up because it punishes clubs that only have SCCL and strips their best players away to go do the monopoly clubs.
Don't get me wrong; I would prefer if the monopoly of MLS-Next/ECNL teams did not exist. Still, they will never give up that cash cow of teasing parents into thinking their games somehow have more meaning or it makes more sense to travel to ridiculous tournaments and spend ridiculous money.
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Post by onekickpop on Aug 24, 2022 11:22:30 GMT -5
Well, somewhat of a controversial opinion also. if the mega clubs don't have enough field space for teams, they are carrying to many teams. Higher level older teams should NOT be training with 3 teams on a field, 1/2 a field minimum should be standard. I don’t totally disagree with you, but I’ll say this Mia. Having seen CESA/UFA/NASA U19’s train regularly on 1/4 of a pitch in high intensity scrimmages, then watching them in full games I see no issue. I even think the 1/4 pitch demands faster ball movement. CESA has the advantage by far over the Atlanta boys with field space and still train in this fashion. But definitely agree. More TURF field space so that teams can play even in inclement weather would be beneficial. |
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Post by onekickpop on Aug 24, 2022 11:35:29 GMT -5
Just dropping ECNL-R would be a massive benefit to the soccer structure in GA. It is that league primarily that screws it all up because it punishes clubs that only have SCCL and strips their best players away to go do the monopoly clubs. Don't get me wrong; I would prefer if the monopoly of MLS-Next/ECNL teams did not exist. Still, they will never give up that cash cow of teasing parents into thinking their games somehow have more meaning or it makes more sense to travel to ridiculous tournaments and spend ridiculous money. Unfortunately this is how things go for us. Soccer will never truly make it here until it can prove that it can attract big sponsors and big dollars, just like the rest. AAU basketball, travel baseball, football… we take all youth sports up to a level where we can identify the best of the best. Soccer is somewhat at its infancy at this point. It is likely that the $$$ behind MLSNEXT will overtake ECNL and this will change the sport here in the US for good. I’ve pulled up to hotels for away soccer games and met parents traveling with hockey teams that includes several trainers, nutritionists, equipment managers, etc. where all we have is a coach, a bag of balls and some cones. 🤣. Youth sports in general is crazy. |
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Post by Soccerhouse on Aug 24, 2022 11:47:58 GMT -5
Just dropping ECNL-R would be a massive benefit to the soccer structure in GA. It is that league primarily that screws it all up because it punishes clubs that only have SCCL and strips their best players away to go do the monopoly clubs. Don't get me wrong; I would prefer if the monopoly of MLS-Next/ECNL teams did not exist. Still, they will never give up that cash cow of teasing parents into thinking their games somehow have more meaning or it makes more sense to travel to ridiculous tournaments and spend ridiculous money. no question from a league Managment and organization structure, it's much simpler to schedule games for an entire club vs each age group having 10-15 different clubs/organizations involved. But leagues like MLS/ECNL need to figure out how to incorporate teams that excel at a particular age group. Clubs that don't have the numbers to put together top competitive teams from u13 - u19, but have 1 or 2 age groups with a trully competitive squad. I guess devils advocate, is they also want to avoid a club putting in a team of lets say one u17 team, that is a combination of 06s and 07s for example. I get it you need structure, but you also need to be flexible if necessary. But this also involves have a true criteria developed for "team/club" selection and an evaluation process of the clubs currently in the system. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 24, 2022 15:39:22 GMT -5
I don't know how to search for past seasons. Here is the spring 2022 SCCL U12 - system.gotsport.com/org_event/events/11679/schedules?group=69110Mostly what you would expect except maybe Santos coming in at #6 and Nasa coming in at #5, and UFA second to last. Who would have thought UFA second to last with NASA and Santos finishing mid-table? |
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Post by atlantasoccerdad2020 on Aug 24, 2022 16:36:59 GMT -5
So if there was tournament with a top team from GPL, NPL, SCCL, GA and ECNL. Is it possible the l club from the “lowest” league could beat all the others? I know some people say play the highest league you can play but they are many reasons why some don’t.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2022 10:17:37 GMT -5
So if there was tournament with a top team from GPL, NPL, SCCL, GA and ECNL. Is it possible the l club from the “lowest” league could beat all the others? I know some people say play the highest league you can play but they are many reasons why some don’t. So the short answer is no. The top team from ECNL / MLS Next will beat the top team from ECNL-R and the top team from ECNL-R will beat the top team in SCCL. There is a bit of nuance; the higher in age you go, the more SCCL gets watered down (weaker), and the tighter ECNL-R and ECNL become. At U13 The top ECNL-R team would beat the bottom 25% of ECNL teams. The top SCCL team would beat 40% of the bottom ENCL-R teams. At U16 The top ECNL-R team would beat the bottom 40% of ECNL teams. The top SCCL would beat the bottom 25% of ECNL-R teams. Given what I know now, I would put my kid with coaches like DC at NASA or AD at Santos or BS out of Concord (there are others) in a heartbeat and never worry about the league level (of course they are typically coaching 1st/2nd team teams anyways). At U11/U12 big clubs go to small clubs for players or maybe flip a big club player. At U15/U16 big clubs watch what happens in high school to identify players. This is because "over-generalizing" all the top kids at U13 are big kids, tall kids, usually all talented, but usually not late bloomers. So if your kid makes a top team at U13, congrats. They were early bloomers. Probably a Jan-Mar birthday. Yeah there are exceptions we are talking about typically. By U15/U16 coaches have teams set, and since very few clubs have real ID sessions or actual tryouts (instead just random connections/scouting), they do not take new kids since the new kids are generally around the same level as who they got, maybe slightly better). Then coaches watch high school and say, well where did that kid come from? Let me add him to the ECNL team. That was the same kid btw they wouldn't consider at their tryouts/scouting that had played at their club on 2nd or 3rd team for the last four years (also, not my kid but saw personally four instances of this in the past two years). Again, the biggest problem to me is not MLSNext or ECNL; it is that ENCL-R takes so many second teams out of SCCL. Or, if they were going to have it they are so exclusive and prevent smaller clubs from entering it, it keeps good teams from staying together to keep the monopoly going. |
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Post by Keeper on Aug 25, 2022 10:31:48 GMT -5
ECNL-RL is not the problem. Campbell and Nuno at Gsa are the problem. You have to remember that Ambush, Santos, Rush, AFC, and a couple others pushed for ECNL-RL but it was vetoed by GSA since that would open them up to adding ECNL in later years.
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Post by onekickpop on Aug 25, 2022 11:34:13 GMT -5
ECNL-RL is not the problem. Campbell and Nuno at Gsa are the problem. You have to remember that Ambush, Santos, Rush, AFC, and a couple others pushed for ECNL-RL but it was vetoed by GSA since that would open them up to adding ECNL in later years. Sidebar - I have seen comments like this before. Is there merit to this assumed influence that GSA/Concorde have over ECNL decisions (boys)? Are they really able to dictate who is awarded an RL or ECNL spot in the Southeast? |
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Post by bogan on Aug 25, 2022 12:18:06 GMT -5
ECNL-RL is not the problem. Campbell and Nuno at Gsa are the problem. You have to remember that Ambush, Santos, Rush, AFC, and a couple others pushed for ECNL-RL but it was vetoed by GSA since that would open them up to adding ECNL in later years. Sidebar - I have seen comments like this before. Is there merit to this assumed influence that GSA/Concorde have over ECNL decisions (boys)? Are they really able to dictate who is awarded an RL or ECNL spot in the Southeast? At one point I could definitely say yes…not involved anymore so I don’t know if it’s still true. |
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Post by Keeper on Aug 25, 2022 23:20:45 GMT -5
ECNL-RL is not the problem. Campbell and Nuno at Gsa are the problem. You have to remember that Ambush, Santos, Rush, AFC, and a couple others pushed for ECNL-RL but it was vetoed by GSA since that would open them up to adding ECNL in later years. Sidebar - I have seen comments like this before. Is there merit to this assumed influence that GSA/Concorde have over ECNL decisions (boys)? Are they really able to dictate who is awarded an RL or ECNL spot in the Southeast? Yes. Each of the ECNL clubs, at least the original ones, have territorial veto rights as to not water down the level. Gregg at Concorde has never seemed to care, but Campbell at Gsa has always been adamant about keeping other clubs out. It’s like he knows the writing is on the wall and it’s game over when others can be treated equally. |
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Post by atlutd17 on Aug 26, 2022 6:52:26 GMT -5
Sidebar - I have seen comments like this before. Is there merit to this assumed influence that GSA/Concorde have over ECNL decisions (boys)? Are they really able to dictate who is awarded an RL or ECNL spot in the Southeast? Yes. Each of the ECNL clubs, at least the original ones, have territorial veto rights as to not water down the level. Gregg at Concorde has never seemed to care, but Campbell at Gsa has always been adamant about keeping other clubs out. It’s like he knows the writing is on the wall and it’s game over when others can be treated equally. The main issue is just this: winners and losers are picked outside the 4 lines nowadays. |
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Post by randomparent on Aug 26, 2022 8:05:41 GMT -5
Why doesnt Ambush, Santos, Rush, etc. just boycott GSA?
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Post by mightydawg on Aug 26, 2022 9:06:09 GMT -5
Why doesnt Ambush, Santos, Rush, etc. just boycott GSA? Ambush, Santos and Rush are all located within the same area. They could very easily merge or have a cooperation agreement to form a club that could get in MLS Next/GA or get into ECNL. |
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Post by mamadona on Aug 26, 2022 9:22:51 GMT -5
Why doesnt Ambush, Santos, Rush, etc. just boycott GSA? Ambush, Santos and Rush are all located within the same area. They could very easily merge or have a cooperation agreement to form a club that could get in MLS Next/GA or get into ECNL. Yes! They could be called SAMRUSH! |
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Post by randomparent on Aug 26, 2022 10:19:36 GMT -5
Why doesnt Ambush, Santos, Rush, etc. just boycott GSA? Ambush, Santos and Rush are all located within the same area. They could very easily merge or have a cooperation agreement to form a club that could get in MLS Next/GA or get into ECNL. I just looked at MLS next, for some reason I have always discounted it as a second tier league in Georgia but with SSA, LSA, AFC, and ATL against NASA, Concord, UFA, GSA seems about even in terms of big clubs in Atlanta. |
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Post by newguy on Aug 26, 2022 10:47:32 GMT -5
Ambush, Santos and Rush are all located within the same area. They could very easily merge or have a cooperation agreement to form a club that could get in MLS Next/GA or get into ECNL. I just looked at MLS next, for some reason I have always discounted it as a second tier league in Georgia but with SSA, LSA, AFC, and ATL against NASA, Concord, UFA, GSA seems about even in terms of big clubs in Atlanta. And think how much time and money could be saved if they would all just play each other. |
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Post by randomparent on Aug 26, 2022 13:19:09 GMT -5
I just looked at MLS next, for some reason I have always discounted it as a second tier league in Georgia but with SSA, LSA, AFC, and ATL against NASA, Concord, UFA, GSA seems about even in terms of big clubs in Atlanta. And think how much time and money could be saved if they would all just play each other. If we did combine up do you think we could still fly to San Diego and spend thousands of dollars on super meaningful games? There is nothing more special to me than saying the word, "nationals." |
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