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Post by mightydawg on Mar 19, 2023 19:00:18 GMT -5
I can’t speak to the culture but the majority of players signed to homegrown contracts have been black. You have to remember that Atlanta is only looking for 1-3 kids per age group. There is a lot of turnover. Players get released at tue end of each season.
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Post by rifle on Mar 19, 2023 20:55:52 GMT -5
You and your son must be doing something right - Congrats!
I would recommend treating a “trial” as an opportunity to interview the staff. Not sure if it is the “right” move but you could choose to candidly share what you’ve seen/heard and see if the questions make them uncomfortable. It might inform how you feel about the potential fit. I’m curious if AU welcomes or forbids parent involvement in this scenario. What you’ve brought up is a topic that shouldn’t be placed entirely on a 13yo kid’s shoulders. IMO.
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Post by soccerloafer on Mar 20, 2023 8:29:50 GMT -5
I am new to Georgia and have a son playing soccer at the U14 ECNL level. Our club has been approached about my son doing a trial at Atlanta United's academy. Nice, but I've heard horror stories about black players in the academy. Someone on the U15 team just said that black players are leaving and being released from that team a lot in the past couple of months. I also don't see any black coaches there. I think representation is important and I'm worried about my son going there. Any advice or comforting thoughts? I thought we were past judging people by the color of their skin. Personally we've had good and bad coaches of all skin tones. It's not a determining factor. Disappointed this is even discussed. "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character." |
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Post by flix on Mar 20, 2023 11:16:57 GMT -5
I am new to Georgia and have a son playing soccer at the U14 ECNL level. Our club has been approached about my son doing a trial at Atlanta United's academy. Nice, but I've heard horror stories about black players in the academy. Someone on the U15 team just said that black players are leaving and being released from that team a lot in the past couple of months. I also don't see any black coaches there. I think representation is important and I'm worried about my son going there. Any advice or comforting thoughts? I thought we were past judging people by the color of their skin. Personally we've had good and bad coaches of all skin tones. It's not a determining factor. Disappointed this is even discussed. "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character." Did you see why they even posted the question? I didn’t see anything about anyone judging people by the color of their skin. Why are you disappointed this is even discussed? Never mind, who cares. Do you even have a boy in the AU academy? If not, why are you even responding? Also, please stop quoting that old ass I Have A Dream speech and they always want to use the same part of the speech. Let some people tell it, that was the only speech ever given by him. |
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Post by soccerloafer on Mar 20, 2023 11:34:12 GMT -5
I thought we were past judging people by the color of their skin. Personally we've had good and bad coaches of all skin tones. It's not a determining factor. Disappointed this is even discussed. "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character." Did you see why they even posted the question? I didn’t see anything about anyone judging people by the color of their skin. Why are you disappointed this is even discussed? Never mind, who cares. Do you even have a boy in the AU academy? If not, why are you even responding? Also, please stop quoting that old ass I Have A Dream speech and they always want to use the same part of the speech. Let some people tell it, that was the only speech ever given by him. "I also don't see any black coaches there. I think representation is important and I'm worried about my son going there." The entire quote above is directly about judging people by the color of their skin. Let me reverse it: "I see too many black coaches there... I'm worried about my son going there." How does that sound? If you're angry about one but not the other, you may be the problem. |
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Post by slickdaddy96 on Mar 20, 2023 12:24:57 GMT -5
Did you see why they even posted the question? I didn’t see anything about anyone judging people by the color of their skin. Why are you disappointed this is even discussed? Never mind, who cares. Do you even have a boy in the AU academy? If not, why are you even responding? Also, please stop quoting that old ass I Have A Dream speech and they always want to use the same part of the speech. Let some people tell it, that was the only speech ever given by him. "I also don't see any black coaches there. I think representation is important and I'm worried about my son going there." The entire quote above is directly about judging people by the color of their skin. Let me reverse it: "I see too many black coaches there... I'm worried about my son going there." How does that sound? If you're angry about one but not the other, you may be the problem. I don't understand the mindset at all of the other posters. Its as if the only goal in life is to see color and try to make things racial when it is not. I agree with another poster almost all of United's homegrown contracts are black players. I am pretty sure this is a sign of United not being racial at all. They cut people off their academy all of the time for performance. I don't think they discriminate on what race of players they cut. There are very few black coaches in all of MLS, so I'm not sure that is an issue either as far as not being accepted to a black player. |
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Post by dabe on Mar 20, 2023 17:12:37 GMT -5
"I also don't see any black coaches there. I think representation is important and I'm worried about my son going there." The entire quote above is directly about judging people by the color of their skin. Let me reverse it: "I see too many black coaches there... I'm worried about my son going there." How does that sound? If you're angry about one but not the other, you may be the problem. I don't understand the mindset at all of the other posters. Its as if the only goal in life is to see color and try to make things racial when it is not. I agree with another poster almost all of United's homegrown contracts are black players. I am pretty sure this is a sign of United not being racial at all. They cut people off their academy all of the time for performance. I don't think they discriminate on what race of players they cut. There are very few black coaches in all of MLS, so I'm not sure that is an issue either as far as not being accepted to a black player. Not sure if I wanted to do this, but I have time this afternoon… I know this may be new to you, but when you are a part of a minority group and you are looking to enter an unfamiliar environment (especially those that involve your children) it is not uncommon to want to gain insight prior to joining. For example, when I was looking to put my Black children into private school I first looked at the reviews by Black parents/students. I did this for no other reason than to ensure my children would be in a space where they were respected. There is nothing worth the emotional damage that escorts racism. It is very clear by your post and soccerloafer ’s post that you have never had a child that lacked representation in a space they were in. Consider yourself lucky. In other posts you have stirred the pot and tried to create issues with the LGBTQ+ community as well. Not quite sure why you are so set on making those who are not the majority feel unwelcome. The OP asked for comforting thoughts, not stark criticisms. If you have nothing to add to the conversation, then it’s very easy to ignore posts. Finally, let’s not forget Dr. King’s quote that is all too easily forgotten ”Over the past few years I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro’s greatest stumbling block in his stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen’s Counciler or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate, who is more devoted to ‘order’ than justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice.” - Letter from Birmingham City Jail To answer your question OP, I don’t know much about Atlanta United Academy. That being said, I know of at least one coach at the program who is a wonderful person. I’m sure that they would be more than happy to answer any questions you have about the program. Feel free to PM me for contact info. My son also got a few practice sessions in with ATLUTD2 and had a great time, and a family friend is currently on ATLUTD, and loves it. So, at least for the older guys things seem to be going well, if that helps at all. |
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Post by soccerloafer on Mar 20, 2023 18:05:42 GMT -5
"I know this may be new to you, but when you are a part of a minority group and you are looking to enter an unfamiliar environment (especially those that involve your children) it is not uncommon to want to gain insight prior to joining.
Anyone entering an unfamiliar environment, minority or not, wants to gain insight prior to joining.
"...no other reason than to ensure my children would be in a space where they were respected"
We all want this, regardless of skin color or any other trait.
"There is nothing worth the emotional damage that escorts racism."
I won't argue this point, other than to expand that emotional damage can come from other forms of discrimination, including religious or ideological.
My point in all of this, we all want what is best for our kids. Introducing a black/white/other component seems like an unnecessary and inaccurate variable.
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Post by dabe on Mar 20, 2023 18:56:20 GMT -5
"I know this may be new to you, but when you are a part of a minority group and you are looking to enter an unfamiliar environment (especially those that involve your children) it is not uncommon to want to gain insight prior to joining. Anyone entering an unfamiliar environment, minority or not, wants to gain insight prior to joining. "...no other reason than to ensure my children would be in a space where they were respected" We all want this, regardless of skin color or any other trait. "There is nothing worth the emotional damage that escorts racism." I won't argue this point, other than to expand that emotional damage can come from other forms of discrimination, including religious or ideological. My point in all of this, we all want what is best for our kids. Introducing a black/white/other component seems like an unnecessary and inaccurate variable. You keep bringing it back to “we all would do this” or “we all feel this way”. Completely invalidating the true concerns of parents of minorities and this parent specifically. Soccer is a predominantly white sport in the U.S. and with that comes harsh realities. You are uncomfortable with the reality that Black players, are treated poorly simply because they are Black. Stop trying to bring it back to this fantastical idea that “we’re all in it together”. Our children’s experience in the sport are very different. While I wish more than anything else that people would stop calling my children the n-word on the field that hasn’t happened yet. The idealistic world that you live in is possible, but only if we acknowledge the current state. You don’t have the right to tell others that bringing up their truth and their fears is “unnecessary”. Please note: My post may apply to all minority groups, but I can only and will only speak from my personal experiences. |
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Post by slickdaddy96 on Mar 21, 2023 7:29:25 GMT -5
"I know this may be new to you, but when you are a part of a minority group and you are looking to enter an unfamiliar environment (especially those that involve your children) it is not uncommon to want to gain insight prior to joining. Anyone entering an unfamiliar environment, minority or not, wants to gain insight prior to joining. "...no other reason than to ensure my children would be in a space where they were respected" We all want this, regardless of skin color or any other trait. "There is nothing worth the emotional damage that escorts racism." I won't argue this point, other than to expand that emotional damage can come from other forms of discrimination, including religious or ideological. My point in all of this, we all want what is best for our kids. Introducing a black/white/other component seems like an unnecessary and inaccurate variable. You keep bringing it back to “we all would do this” or “we all feel this way”. Completely invalidating the true concerns of parents of minorities and this parent specifically. Soccer is a predominantly white sport in the U.S. and with that comes harsh realities. You are uncomfortable with the reality that Black players, are treated poorly simply because they are Black. Stop trying to bring it back to this fantastical idea that “we’re all in it together”. Our children’s experience in the sport are very different. While I wish more than anything else that people would stop calling my children the n-word on the field that hasn’t happened yet. The idealistic world that you live in is possible, but only if we acknowledge the current state. You don’t have the right to tell others that bringing up their truth and their fears is “unnecessary”. Please note: My post may apply to all minority groups, but I can only and will only speak from my personal experiences. Love how you try to go back and discredit what I say based on my opinions of previous posts. You are one of those doxxing/cancel type person's aren't you? Trying to bring up old stuff to discredit folks is a trait of them. I stand by anything I said previously and it wasn't to stir the pot. You may not like my stances but it was not stirring the pot. My points previously were valid points and my points now are valid points. I'm not going to get into this BS of intersectionality and critical theory which you are touching here with the whole "you don't know what it's like" crap. A person can not be the minority in question and have an understanding of racism and what it would be like for a minority if there was true racism. Not everything is racism. Its sad that people in the minorities just assume that will always be the case if "whites" are the majority in something. Honestly if anything the thoughts of minorities that if "whites" control something or are a majority of something it is defacto racist or likely is racist is actually the racist thought in my opinion if we are keeping it real here. I have never seen anything in any club my kids have played in or clubs that we have played to show anyone ever has been racist toward a black player. In fact generally the black players in the clubs we play and also on the teams my kids play for end up usually being some of the better and more athletic players on a team. I have never seen them being treated differently or discriminated against in any instance. To assume that ATL United is not the exception to this when I have never seen it in any Academy/Select club I have seen in the 9-10 year history of me involved in Club Soccer have this issue is just not logical. i'm sorry it just isn't. |
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Post by Keeperkeeper on Mar 22, 2023 6:20:29 GMT -5
You keep bringing it back to “we all would do this” or “we all feel this way”. Completely invalidating the true concerns of parents of minorities and this parent specifically. Soccer is a predominantly white sport in the U.S. and with that comes harsh realities. You are uncomfortable with the reality that Black players are treated poorly simply because they are Black. Stop trying to bring it back to this fantastical idea that “we’re all in it together”. Our children’s experiences in the sport are very different. While I wish more than anything else that people would stop calling my children the n-word on the field that hasn’t happened yet. The idealistic world that you live in is possible, but only if we acknowledge the current state. You don’t have the right to tell others that bringing up their truth and their fears is “unnecessary”. Please note: My post may apply to all minority groups, but I can only and will only speak from my personal experiences. Love how you try to go back and discredit what I say based on my opinions of previous posts. You are one of those doxxing/cancel type person's aren't you? Trying to bring up old stuff to discredit folks is a trait of them. I stand by anything I said previously and it wasn't to stir the pot. You may not like my stances but it was not stirring the pot. My points previously were valid points and my points now are valid points. I'm not going to get into this BS of intersectionality and critical theory which you are touching here with the whole "you don't know what it's like" crap. A person can not be the minority in question and have an understanding of racism and what it would be like for a minority if there was true racism. Not everything is racism. Its sad that people in the minorities just assume that will always be the case if "whites" are the majority in something. Honestly if anything the thoughts of minorities that if "whites" control something or are a majority of something it is defacto racist or likely is racist is actually the racist thought in my opinion if we are keeping it real here. I have never seen anything in any club my kids have played in or clubs that we have played to show anyone ever has been racist toward a black player. In fact generally the black players in the clubs we play and also on the teams my kids play for end up usually being some of the better and more athletic players on a team. I have never seen them being treated differently or discriminated against in any instance. To assume that ATL United is the exception to this when I have never seen it in any Academy/Select club I have seen in the 9-10 year history of me involved in Club Soccer have this issue is just not logical. i'm sorry it just isn't. Dear original poster. Sorry that your post was hijacked. However, the responses to your question highlight issues in soccer that are at more clubs than ATL UTD. I rarely post, but since y’all are out here trying to use MLK’s quotes against people of color, I had to respond. Just because you have never seen “them being mistreated in any instance” does not make it true. Please do not try to discredit the LIVED EXPERIENCES of many players of color because of YOUR individual experience. I am sure if we were to survey black parents (and Latino, LGBTQ, or other marginalized groups), we would find that unfortunately, racism and discrimination are still very much alive in the game. Look, here are multiple parents on the forum telling you about their experiences. I know in our several years in Georgia Soccer, our kids have dealt with some pretty ignorant coaches, players, and parents. You lose nothing by acknowledging that racism and discrimination do exist. You will gain understanding and perspective by actually listening to the experiences of others. |
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Post by slickdaddy96 on Mar 22, 2023 7:17:28 GMT -5
Love how you try to go back and discredit what I say based on my opinions of previous posts. You are one of those doxxing/cancel type person's aren't you? Trying to bring up old stuff to discredit folks is a trait of them. I stand by anything I said previously and it wasn't to stir the pot. You may not like my stances but it was not stirring the pot. My points previously were valid points and my points now are valid points. I'm not going to get into this BS of intersectionality and critical theory which you are touching here with the whole "you don't know what it's like" crap. A person can not be the minority in question and have an understanding of racism and what it would be like for a minority if there was true racism. Not everything is racism. Its sad that people in the minorities just assume that will always be the case if "whites" are the majority in something. Honestly if anything the thoughts of minorities that if "whites" control something or are a majority of something it is defacto racist or likely is racist is actually the racist thought in my opinion if we are keeping it real here. I have never seen anything in any club my kids have played in or clubs that we have played to show anyone ever has been racist toward a black player. In fact generally the black players in the clubs we play and also on the teams my kids play for end up usually being some of the better and more athletic players on a team. I have never seen them being treated differently or discriminated against in any instance. To assume that ATL United is the exception to this when I have never seen it in any Academy/Select club I have seen in the 9-10 year history of me involved in Club Soccer have this issue is just not logical. i'm sorry it just isn't. Dear original poster. Sorry that your post was hijacked. However, the responses to your question highlight issues in soccer that are at more clubs than ATL UTD. I rarely post, but since y’all are out here trying to use MLK’s quotes against people of color, I had to respond. Just because you have never seen “them being mistreated in any instance” does not make it true. Please do not try to discredit the LIVED EXPERIENCES of many players of color because of YOUR individual experience. I am sure if we were to survey black parents (and Latino, LGBTQ, or other marginalized groups), we would find that unfortunately, racism and discrimination are still very much alive in the game. Look, here are multiple parents on the forum telling you about their experiences. I know in our several years in Georgia Soccer, our kids have dealt with some pretty ignorant coaches, players, and parents. You lose nothing by acknowledging that racism and discrimination do exist. You will gain understanding and perspective by actually listening to the experiences of others. And you will lose nothing from understanding that everything isn't about race and racial or discrimination. The defacto "we have anecdotal instances" of discrimination argument doesn't really fly. I'm talking overall in club soccer and in my own personal experience I have not seen this happen and I've been involved in many aspects of club soccer over the 10 years I've been around it. Anecdotal instances /=/ the whole system or a club is racist or discriminating. I realize my own eyes is anecdotal as well, but the fact that we don't see major news stories of discrimination in GA Club soccer on news or flooding forums tells me my own eyes are correct on this. The OP didn't state they knew discrimination was happening, they just questioned if A = B when in fact A /=/ B. There are a wide range of ignorant coaches out there (my kid has been victims of them), but all I have ever seen when they make a judgement of a player no matter what the player's ethnicity is type casting or failure to see a player's development or skill or overseeing a player's development or skill. I've never seen a coach discriminate due to race. I know that is anecdotal as well, but I believe my eyes more than a few fonts perspectives on here in an anonymous forum which may or may not be true. As far as LGBTQ or whatever else type of point you are trying to make goes, I don't have a clue if anyone on either of my child's team consider themselves LGBTQ nor do I care. Sexuality really doesn't matter in youth soccer, as the sport doesn't actually involve or pertain anything to do with that subject whether they are heterosexual or homosexual. Their sexual preference has no bearing on the team or club. I'm not sure why that is even a point you are trying to make. Unless someone is trying to throw their sexual preference everywhere I would assume I will never know 99.9999% of players sexual preference that I see playing and again nor do I care. My point is could there be rare instances of someone being discriminated by race in GA Club Soccer? Sure there is. I never said there wasn't. Overall this is the exception no the norm and doesn't happen though, or we would see a lot more news coverage and people ranting on here about it. I would also need to look further into these rare instances as well on a case by case instance because a lot of people these days tend to go straight to "racism" when something doesn't go there way when its clear there are other reasons something bad happened to the person (cut from a team, fired from a job, or whatever...) Lastly I didn't quote MLK, go take that stuff somewhere else to the poster that did. |
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Post by Futsal Gawdess on Mar 22, 2023 8:13:13 GMT -5
I'll start by saying you seem to have a very emotional and visceral response to the LIVED experiences of others. Your response to all the anecdotal examples given by others has been to minimize them. However, you turn around and speak about your own experiences as the basis of your own conclusions that racism, sexism, or any other *ism doesn't exist or shouldn't be validated. While I don't know dabe and neither of my kids has been a victim of his/her kid's experience with the N-word, I have witnessed it in youth soccer. In the last couple of years alone, MLS-Next has had to deal with a myriad of *ism related issues, which included the use of the N-word with a player at AU. I'm not here to validate or quantify the LIVED experiences of others, but I do ask that we at the very least not disregard them outright to fit in with your own narrative, experiences to fit your own conclusions. To the original poster, soccerstuff2320, sorry this thread got hijacked. To answer your question(s)... I'm not sure what the ultimate goal is for your son when it comes to soccer: a fun activity with friends, college, a professional career, etc. Off the bat, I would say if you do choose to trial and do make the team, your son is joining at a prime optimum time because, at U15, he would participate in the Generation Adidas Cup (GA Cup). It is without a doubt the best season-long tournament for exposure as a pro or a college prospect in the US, as it features some of the best players domestically and internationally. However, it is understandable as a parent to be concerned about your son's potential opportunities and experiences. It is important to note that every individual's experience is unique, and it is difficult to generalize based on rumors or hearsay. Atlanta United has always been committed to promoting diversity and inclusion in their organization, and they have made strides to provide equal opportunities for players of all backgrounds. You are correct that there are not a lot of black coaches overall, but the academy manager, Mike Lynch, and the U15 coach, Zack Herold, are both black. Additionally, if you look at the U13, U14, and maybe the U15 teams, they are mostly made up of players of color. I say all that to allay any reservations you may have about your kid feeling out of place. Next, it is crucial to engage in open communication with the academy and ask questions about the team's culture, policies, and goals. You can inquire about the club's commitment to anti-racism, and their approach to supporting players' mental health and well-being. This will give you a better understanding of the environment and the resources available to your son. Finally, it is important to trust your instincts and make a decision that is best for your son and your family. Like with every club in metro Atlanta, factor in the travel and traffic portion into your decision. If you have reservations about the academy or feel that it is not the right fit for your son, it is perfectly okay to explore other options and find a club that aligns with your values, priorities, and goals of your son. I hope this information helps you make an informed decision, and I wish you and your son all the best on this exciting journey. |
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Post by soulsurvivin on Mar 22, 2023 8:27:04 GMT -5
Racism exists in all aspects of people activity. This no doubt includes youth soccer. Other than KSA and probably Atlanta United, count the number of African/African Americans on each team. I’ve been doing this over the past 9 years and it’s typically 3 at most.
Then look at which position they are playing. It’s typically going to be wing or back on the edge. Atlanta United realizes that there are diverse clubs in the area where they can pull talent from. How many Atl United Acad players are from south of I-20?
I will end with this quote:
“If you don’t understand racism, then everything that you think that you understand will only confuse you.”
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Post by blu on Mar 22, 2023 8:50:46 GMT -5
Other than KSA and probably Atlanta United, count the number of African/African Americans on each team. I’ve been doing this over the past 9 years and it’s typically 3 at most.
I can't speak to the girls side but on the boys side this is not true of most Atlanta higher level teams. They are very diverse.
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Post by bolo on Mar 22, 2023 8:55:34 GMT -5
Racism exists in all aspects of people activity. This no doubt includes youth soccer. Other than KSA and probably Atlanta United, count the number of African/African Americans on each team. I’ve been doing this over the past 9 years and it’s typically 3 at most. Then look at which position they are playing. It’s typically going to be wing or back on the edge. Atlanta United realizes that there are diverse clubs in the area where they can pull talent from. How many Atl United Acad players are from south of I-20? I will end with this quote: “If you don’t understand racism, then everything that you think that you understand will only confuse you.” Just because there aren't as many Black kids playing youth soccer doesn't mean racism is to blame. Maybe Black kids aren't into soccer as much as they are some other sports. Is basketball "racist" towards White players because more Black players play and are successful in that sport? What about football? Track? Maybe Black kids simply gravitate more towards those sports than they do soccer. Lots of reasons for that. In terms of "typical positions" for Black players, that's about the dumbest thing I've ever heard. I've seen Black players all over the field, and probably more often playing striker than any other position. To insinuate that they are "relegated" to certain positions that I'm guessing you deem inferior to some others is pretty ignorant. |
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Post by soulsurvivin on Mar 22, 2023 9:43:43 GMT -5
Other than KSA and probably Atlanta United, count the number of African/African Americans on each team. I’ve been doing this over the past 9 years and it’s typically 3 at most.
I can't speak to the girls side but on the boys side this is not true of most Atlanta higher level teams. They are very diverse.
My son plays in Mls next and I haven't seen it on the boys side. Neither for local teams within GA or outside of GA. |
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Post by soulsurvivin on Mar 22, 2023 9:45:03 GMT -5
Racism exists in all aspects of people activity. This no doubt includes youth soccer. Other than KSA and probably Atlanta United, count the number of African/African Americans on each team. I’ve been doing this over the past 9 years and it’s typically 3 at most. Then look at which position they are playing. It’s typically going to be wing or back on the edge. Atlanta United realizes that there are diverse clubs in the area where they can pull talent from. How many Atl United Acad players are from south of I-20? I will end with this quote: “If you don’t understand racism, then everything that you think that you understand will only confuse you.” Just because there aren't as many Black kids playing youth soccer doesn't mean racism is to blame. Maybe Black kids aren't into soccer as much as they are some other sports. Is basketball "racist" towards White players because more Black players play and are successful in that sport? What about football? Track? Maybe Black kids simply gravitate more towards those sports than they do soccer. Lots of reasons for that. In terms of "typical positions" for Black players, that's about the dumbest thing I've ever heard. I've seen Black players all over the field, and probably more often playing striker than any other position. To insinuate that they are "relegated" to certain positions that I'm guessing you deem inferior to some others is pretty ignorant. You are wrong. There are various factors that drive black players from the game. My son plays in the highest level of youth soccer, and its common to stigmatize players as "fast" and put them on the edges or even striker and rarely midfield. |
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Post by slickdaddy96 on Mar 22, 2023 10:18:26 GMT -5
Just because there aren't as many Black kids playing youth soccer doesn't mean racism is to blame. Maybe Black kids aren't into soccer as much as they are some other sports. Is basketball "racist" towards White players because more Black players play and are successful in that sport? What about football? Track? Maybe Black kids simply gravitate more towards those sports than they do soccer. Lots of reasons for that. In terms of "typical positions" for Black players, that's about the dumbest thing I've ever heard. I've seen Black players all over the field, and probably more often playing striker than any other position. To insinuate that they are "relegated" to certain positions that I'm guessing you deem inferior to some others is pretty ignorant. You are wrong. There are various factors that drive black players from the game. My son plays in the highest level of youth soccer, and its common to stigmatize players as "fast" and put them on the edges or even striker and rarely midfield. No I'm sorry he is right. I've seen tryouts for the last 12+ years for club soccer in a particular club. It is not the club's fault that not as many black players decide to tryout as white or Hispanic kids. Maybe as parents of black athletes push their son away from American Football due to the brain and injury issues, you will start to see more start to play soccer, but the statement of less black players in soccer in general does not mean it is due to racism. As Bolo said, maybe they are driven to other sports instead. You can't force black players to tryout for soccer when they don't want to play it. That isn't a club or racism issue, that is a player issue. Also your statement of them only being wing or striker is about the dumbest thing I have ever heard. The correct statement would actually be if a kid is extremely athletic and one of the fastest on the team they are likely going to be playing striker or wing no matter what their race is. That I have seen to be absolutely true, and from a coaching standpoint that is likely the best position for an extremely fast or athletic player. |
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Post by bolo on Mar 22, 2023 10:32:40 GMT -5
Just because there aren't as many Black kids playing youth soccer doesn't mean racism is to blame. Maybe Black kids aren't into soccer as much as they are some other sports. Is basketball "racist" towards White players because more Black players play and are successful in that sport? What about football? Track? Maybe Black kids simply gravitate more towards those sports than they do soccer. Lots of reasons for that. In terms of "typical positions" for Black players, that's about the dumbest thing I've ever heard. I've seen Black players all over the field, and probably more often playing striker than any other position. To insinuate that they are "relegated" to certain positions that I'm guessing you deem inferior to some others is pretty ignorant. You are wrong. There are various factors that drive black players from the game. My son plays in the highest level of youth soccer, and its common to stigmatize players as "fast" and put them on the edges or even striker and rarely midfield. I didn't realize being fast was a disadvantage in soccer, and something you could be "stigmatized" for. Learn something new everyday. Here's the reality, whether you want to admit it or not- Black people generally ARE faster than White people. Look at high level track events- white sprinters are a rarity. Same with skill positions that require speed in the NFL- relatively few White running backs, wide receivers, and defensive backs. Hell, there hasn't been a White cornerback in the NFL in over 20 years. So if there are positions in soccer and other sports where speed is more beneficial, it makes sense that you would see more Black players in those positions, whether by their own choice or by coaches trying to put players in the best position to succeed both individually and for the team. To me, that's not evidence of racism, but I guess you see it differently. It sounds like you think midfield is a more important position and that Black players aren't given a fair shot there, often because they're "too fast". I've seen plenty of Black midfielders over the years, including on very high-level club teams, but maybe we're looking in different places. I mean, honestly, just look at the World Cup- in all 4 games, the US started 3 Black midfielders (Tyler Adams, Weston McKennie, & Yunus Musah). Rare to see Black midfielders in soccer in the US indeed. |
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Post by atlnoleg on Mar 22, 2023 12:29:13 GMT -5
Yikes this thread. LOL. I just wanted to say my kids' teams have been extremely diverse, and I love it. Granted, diversity doesn't necessarily mean equal numbers based on race. But as far as ethnicity and country of origin? Yowzah. Their current team has maybe four kids with two American-born white parents, and one with parents of different races. We have parents from Brazil, Venezuela, Bosnia, Germany, Japan, Haiti, France, Israel. Coach is Jamaican. Probably leaving something out, but you get the gist. Previous teams have been similar. I can't imagine a sport that is more diverse. You certainly won't find the same breakdown in football/basketball/baseball. That doesn't mean everything is always kumbaya. But in my experience, soccer brings people from different walks of life together better than just about anything else I've ever seen.
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Post by soulsurvivin on Mar 22, 2023 14:18:20 GMT -5
You are wrong. There are various factors that drive black players from the game. My son plays in the highest level of youth soccer, and its common to stigmatize players as "fast" and put them on the edges or even striker and rarely midfield. I didn't realize being fast was a disadvantage in soccer, and something you could be "stigmatized" for. Learn something new everyday. Here's the reality, whether you want to admit it or not- Black people generally ARE faster than White people. Look at high level track events- white sprinters are a rarity. Same with skill positions that require speed in the NFL- relatively few White running backs, wide receivers, and defensive backs. Hell, there hasn't been a White cornerback in the NFL in over 20 years. So if there are positions in soccer and other sports where speed is more beneficial, it makes sense that you would see more Black players in those positions, whether by their own choice or by coaches trying to put players in the best position to succeed both individually and for the team. To me, that's not evidence of racism, but I guess you see it differently. It sounds like you think midfield is a more important position and that Black players aren't given a fair shot there, often because they're "too fast". I've seen plenty of Black midfielders over the years, including on very high-level club teams, but maybe we're looking in different places. I mean, honestly, just look at the World Cup- in all 4 games, the US started 3 Black midfielders (Tyler Adams, Weston McKennie, & Yunus Musah). Rare to see Black midfielders in soccer in the US indeed. Your argument fails to convince me that race and class, do not largely contribute to disparities in youth soccer in the United States, particularly the Atlanta Area. I joke and say that high level youth soccer is the new "country club" sport. There are lots of ways that people are kept out of country clubs. Affordability, location...the list goes on. If what you are saying is true, there wouldn't be a need for organizations like Soccer In The Streets. I agree that soccer is still not one of the big 3 (American Football, Basketball, Baseball), however there are lots of black kids playing the sport. I've been to a soccer in the streets training south of I-20. Its not uncommon to see 100 kids. Unfortunately many of those kids are locked out of the major clubs. Hence, back to the country club analogy. I think that you mostly got my point about the stigma. Its being labeled as "only fast" and thus viewed as one dimensional. Mark Mckenzie shared a story about similar experiences as a youth player. Youth soccer development is supposed to be not necessarily what helps the team, but also individual. Otherwise, one has to go pay for additional training, which equals more expenses. |
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Post by bolo on Mar 22, 2023 16:11:01 GMT -5
I didn't realize being fast was a disadvantage in soccer, and something you could be "stigmatized" for. Learn something new everyday. Here's the reality, whether you want to admit it or not- Black people generally ARE faster than White people. Look at high level track events- white sprinters are a rarity. Same with skill positions that require speed in the NFL- relatively few White running backs, wide receivers, and defensive backs. Hell, there hasn't been a White cornerback in the NFL in over 20 years. So if there are positions in soccer and other sports where speed is more beneficial, it makes sense that you would see more Black players in those positions, whether by their own choice or by coaches trying to put players in the best position to succeed both individually and for the team. To me, that's not evidence of racism, but I guess you see it differently. It sounds like you think midfield is a more important position and that Black players aren't given a fair shot there, often because they're "too fast". I've seen plenty of Black midfielders over the years, including on very high-level club teams, but maybe we're looking in different places. I mean, honestly, just look at the World Cup- in all 4 games, the US started 3 Black midfielders (Tyler Adams, Weston McKennie, & Yunus Musah). Rare to see Black midfielders in soccer in the US indeed. Your argument fails to convince me that race and class, do not largely contribute to disparities in youth soccer in the United States, particularly the Atlanta Area. I joke and say that high level youth soccer is the new "country club" sport. There are lots of ways that people are kept out of country clubs. Affordability, location...the list goes on. If what you are saying is true, there wouldn't be a need for organizations like Soccer In The Streets. I agree that soccer is still not one of the big 3 (American Football, Basketball, Baseball), however there are lots of black kids playing the sport. I've been to a soccer in the streets training south of I-20. Its not uncommon to see 100 kids. Unfortunately many of those kids are locked out of the major clubs. Hence, back to the country club analogy. I think that you mostly got my point about the stigma. Its being labeled as "only fast" and thus viewed as one dimensional. Mark Mckenzie shared a story about similar experiences as a youth player. Youth soccer development is supposed to be not necessarily what helps the team, but also individual. Otherwise, one has to go pay for additional training, which equals more expenses. I'm not saying race or class don't contribute to who is and isn't playing youth soccer in the US. I'm just saying it has very little to do with "racism"- however you want to define that. You're exactly right that club soccer is often played by more affluent families, though I also know that many/most clubs will make financial accommodations for players that might not be able to pay full freight. I was a team manager for several years at different clubs and had several players on at least partial "scholarships". The parents on the teams- myself included- would often pitch in to give rides to practice & games to these kids when their parents weren't able to, even if they lived out of the way. So we- and the clubs- were doing what we could. Often it's a matter of the players & parents seeking those opportunities out, as I don't know how much outreach the clubs are doing to find "hidden gems" that might otherwise not have a chance to play for these clubs. Going to Soccer in the Streets events, like you mentioned, might be a good start. I still don't agree that being labeled fast is a stigma. In any sport (other than something like golf), being fast or a good athlete is going to help you tremendously. From there, it's up to the player & coach to refine the skills that make them more than "only fast"- no matter what color their skin is. It's kind of like being 7 feet tall doesn't automatically mean you're going to play in the NBA. It definitely gives you a great base to start from, but if you're "only tall", there's only so far you can go. If you feel like your child has been labeled "only fast" and thus isn't being given opportunities to play a different position that he may want to try, you and/or your child need to have a conversation with the coach and not just assume he's being denied opportunities because of the color of his skin. Maybe the coach has no idea that your kid wants to play midfield. Maybe he thinks your son would be better at another position where speed gives him more of an advantage on the field, which to me is a pretty reasonable tact to take. But it all comes back to communication, rather than automatically assuming it has anything to do with race. |
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Post by dabe on Mar 22, 2023 18:11:42 GMT -5
You keep bringing it back to “we all would do this” or “we all feel this way”. Completely invalidating the true concerns of parents of minorities and this parent specifically. Soccer is a predominantly white sport in the U.S. and with that comes harsh realities. You are uncomfortable with the reality that Black players, are treated poorly simply because they are Black. Stop trying to bring it back to this fantastical idea that “we’re all in it together”. Our children’s experience in the sport are very different. While I wish more than anything else that people would stop calling my children the n-word on the field that hasn’t happened yet. The idealistic world that you live in is possible, but only if we acknowledge the current state. You don’t have the right to tell others that bringing up their truth and their fears is “unnecessary”. Please note: My post may apply to all minority groups, but I can only and will only speak from my personal experiences. Love how you try to go back and discredit what I say based on my opinions of previous posts. You are one of those doxxing/cancel type person's aren't you? Trying to bring up old stuff to discredit folks is a trait of them. I stand by anything I said previously and it wasn't to stir the pot. You may not like my stances but it was not stirring the pot. My points previously were valid points and my points now are valid points. I'm not going to get into this BS of intersectionality and critical theory which you are touching here with the whole "you don't know what it's like" crap. A person can not be the minority in question and have an understanding of racism and what it would be like for a minority if there was true racism. Not everything is racism. Its sad that people in the minorities just assume that will always be the case if "whites" are the majority in something. Honestly if anything the thoughts of minorities that if "whites" control something or are a majority of something it is defacto racist or likely is racist is actually the racist thought in my opinion if we are keeping it real here. I have never seen anything in any club my kids have played in or clubs that we have played to show anyone ever has been racist toward a black player. In fact generally the black players in the clubs we play and also on the teams my kids play for end up usually being some of the better and more athletic players on a team. I have never seen them being treated differently or discriminated against in any instance. To assume that ATL United is not the exception to this when I have never seen it in any Academy/Select club I have seen in the 9-10 year history of me involved in Club Soccer have this issue is just not logical. i'm sorry it just isn't. I did not bring up your previous posts in an attempt to discredit you. My only two interactions with you have been in regard to issues of race or sexuality. I just want to make it glaringly obvious to you, so long as you and I are both members of this forum, it will never be easy for you to invalidate, isolate, or offend minority groups. Soccer is the world's sport and no parent or player should ever feel unwelcome taking part in any aspect of the sport, including on anonymous forums. To be completely candid, this topic hits incredibly close to home. Your attempts to gaslight myself and my children out of our experiences are hurtful at the very least. I guess I'm left wondering why your personal experiences are rule while mine are so easily dismissed? "Well I've never seen it, so it must not be an issue." It's easy isn't it? To say that you've never seen it so, why bother? I could also go on and on about the number of microagressions that you probably have witnessed, but were unable to pick up on. To address your point about ATL UTD, I don't think anyone has suggested that the academy is racist. In fact, I haven't seen anyone on this thread speak poorly about the club. If you read my previous post, my family and I have only ever had positive experiences with them. It's still important to acknowledge that the OP has heard these rumors from somewhere so there may be truth to them. That's the whole reason this thread was started. This topic is clearly one where you are uninterested in hearing other perspectives. That's fine. You can always PM me if you change your mind. To whoever else sees this, I know that it's easy to see this thread, my posts, as just some guy going on a rant. Please remember that my kids, and I are real. In fact I would bet that one of my kids has played with or against one (or more) of your children at some point or another. We've played in almost every league at almost every club. If we haven't been associated with one another I'm sure that our experiences are similar to families on your team. Being a parent of a Black child in this sport can be very rewarding, but it can also be scary, isolating, and painful. So, check-in with your fellow parents. If you see something, it means so much to just acknowledge it. A quick "Hey, I saw what happened and you have every right to be upset." would suffice. If a parent brings up an issue or concern regarding their kid, believe them even if you didn't see, hear or feel it first hand. Finally, it's okay to admit when you are wrong. Saying something that offended someone happens. It doesn't mean that you are racist, or a bad person, it just means that you have more to learn and that's okay. |
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Post by slickdaddy96 on Mar 23, 2023 7:14:19 GMT -5
Love how you try to go back and discredit what I say based on my opinions of previous posts. You are one of those doxxing/cancel type person's aren't you? Trying to bring up old stuff to discredit folks is a trait of them. I stand by anything I said previously and it wasn't to stir the pot. You may not like my stances but it was not stirring the pot. My points previously were valid points and my points now are valid points. I'm not going to get into this BS of intersectionality and critical theory which you are touching here with the whole "you don't know what it's like" crap. A person can not be the minority in question and have an understanding of racism and what it would be like for a minority if there was true racism. Not everything is racism. Its sad that people in the minorities just assume that will always be the case if "whites" are the majority in something. Honestly if anything the thoughts of minorities that if "whites" control something or are a majority of something it is defacto racist or likely is racist is actually the racist thought in my opinion if we are keeping it real here. I have never seen anything in any club my kids have played in or clubs that we have played to show anyone ever has been racist toward a black player. In fact generally the black players in the clubs we play and also on the teams my kids play for end up usually being some of the better and more athletic players on a team. I have never seen them being treated differently or discriminated against in any instance. To assume that ATL United is not the exception to this when I have never seen it in any Academy/Select club I have seen in the 9-10 year history of me involved in Club Soccer have this issue is just not logical. i'm sorry it just isn't. I did not bring up your previous posts in an attempt to discredit you. My only two interactions with you have been in regard to issues of race or sexuality. I just want to make it glaringly obvious to you, so long as you and I are both members of this forum, it will never be easy for you to invalidate, isolate, or offend minority groups. Soccer is the world's sport and no parent or player should ever feel unwelcome taking part in any aspect of the sport, including on anonymous forums. To be completely candid, this topic hits incredibly close to home. Your attempts to gaslight myself and my children out of our experiences are hurtful at the very least. I guess I'm left wondering why your personal experiences are rule while mine are so easily dismissed? "Well I've never seen it, so it must not be an issue." It's easy isn't it? To say that you've never seen it so, why bother? I could also go on and on about the number of microagressions that you probably have witnessed, but were unable to pick up on. To address your point about ATL UTD, I don't think anyone has suggested that the academy is racist. In fact, I haven't seen anyone on this thread speak poorly about the club. If you read my previous post, my family and I have only ever had positive experiences with them. It's still important to acknowledge that the OP has heard these rumors from somewhere so there may be truth to them. That's the whole reason this thread was started. This topic is clearly one where you are uninterested in hearing other perspectives. That's fine. You can always PM me if you change your mind. To whoever else sees this, I know that it's easy to see this thread, my posts, as just some guy going on a rant. Please remember that my kids, and I are real. In fact I would bet that one of my kids has played with or against one (or more) of your children at some point or another. We've played in almost every league at almost every club. If we haven't been associated with one another I'm sure that our experiences are similar to families on your team. Being a parent of a Black child in this sport can be very rewarding, but it can also be scary, isolating, and painful. So, check-in with your fellow parents. If you see something, it means so much to just acknowledge it. A quick "Hey, I saw what happened and you have every right to be upset." would suffice. If a parent brings up an issue or concern regarding their kid, believe them even if you didn't see, hear or feel it first hand. Finally, it's okay to admit when you are wrong. Saying something that offended someone happens. It doesn't mean that you are racist, or a bad person, it just means that you have more to learn and that's okay. To be frank the things I said should not be offensive to anyone. Do I come off as abrasive? Yes of course. The world has become too offended about everything with media and people with certain political ideologies looking for the next thing to be offended by so they can fake virtue signal that they are offended so they can score points with their peers. Its not limited to people, its companies as well. In reality I am not easily offended. America as a whole needs to get back to having thicker skin and live and let live instead of looking for the next thing to be offended, calling everything racist, sexist, homophobic, etc. when it isn't any of those things and it just taints the instances where real racism, sexism, or homophobia does happen. People need to stop trying to cancel and destroy people for saying or doing something they don't agree with especially if those things by rational humans would not really be deemed offensive to begin with and only offensive by the "easily offended class". Lastly this post-modernism intersectionality crap of there being "my truth" or "your truth" needs to be done away with. There is only one truth and most of the time it falls between the two perspectives. One's truth isn't more factual just because they fall lower on the totem pole of intersectionality, and just because you are higher on that totem pole doesn't mean your opinions and view on the facts is invalidated to the "more oppressed" person. All that crap is some Kumbaya post-modernism BS to be honest. A country and world without absolute truth will destroy itself. That is where we are heading by the way if this stuff doesn't change. Go back and read all of my comments again. I never stated that racism or discrimination doesn't happen. I just said that it isn't common in the club soccer scene at least in Georgia. That isn't discrediting anyone. That is pushing back that one would automatically think toward racial issues in anything they do in their everyday life instead of other factors that could be more of the issue or the issue all together. |
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Post by bogan on Mar 23, 2023 7:58:51 GMT -5
Don’t let any of this distract you from the fact that in 1972, a crack commando unit was sent to prison by a military court for a crime they didn’t commit. These men promptly escaped from a maximum security stockade to the Los Angeles underground. Today, still wanted by the government they survive as soldiers of fortune. If you have a problem, if no one else can help, and if you can find them…maybe you can hire the A-Team…
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Post by soccergurl on Mar 23, 2023 8:04:44 GMT -5
In reality I am not easily offended. Hmmmmmmmmm
|me no tink dis statement tru|
|me tink if u hear rapino name| |me tink u like rabid dog wit bone| |me tink hur name trigger u| |RAPINOE|RAPINOE|RAPINOE|
|me tink u like karen|
|me tink u no need 2 comment| |me tink if u lucky 2 no experience issues| |me tink u stay in ur lane n sssshhhhh|
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Post by soccerloafer on Mar 23, 2023 8:42:02 GMT -5
In reality I am not easily offended. Hmmmmmmmmm
|me no tink dis statement tru|
|me tink if u hear rapino name| |me tink u like rabid dog wit bone| |me tink hur name trigger u| |RAPINOE|RAPINOE|RAPINOE|
|me tink u like karen|
|me tink u no need 2 comment| |me tink if u lucky 2 no experience issues| |me tink u stay in ur lane n sssshhhhh|
I'm the one that hates Rapinoe, not slickdaddy... Has nothing to do with her choice of partner. And I'm not easily offended, just realistic. One poster made a great comment - soccer brings more cultures together than any other sport - agree completely. Not always perfect, but better than so many other situations. |
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Post by soccergurl on Mar 23, 2023 11:49:05 GMT -5
|btw Heysoos say not good 2 hate|
|me tink u 2 like peas in pod| |me tink like movie u complete each oder| |me tink u like modern woke couple| |me tink Rapino hav influence on u| |me really really really really happy 4 u|
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Post by Oceanready on Mar 23, 2023 17:14:03 GMT -5
Love how you try to go back and discredit what I say based on my opinions of previous posts. You are one of those doxxing/cancel type person's aren't you? Trying to bring up old stuff to discredit folks is a trait of them. I stand by anything I said previously and it wasn't to stir the pot. You may not like my stances but it was not stirring the pot. My points previously were valid points and my points now are valid points. I'm not going to get into this BS of intersectionality and critical theory which you are touching here with the whole "you don't know what it's like" crap. A person can not be the minority in question and have an understanding of racism and what it would be like for a minority if there was true racism. Not everything is racism. Its sad that people in the minorities just assume that will always be the case if "whites" are the majority in something. Honestly if anything the thoughts of minorities that if "whites" control something or are a majority of something it is defacto racist or likely is racist is actually the racist thought in my opinion if we are keeping it real here. I have never seen anything in any club my kids have played in or clubs that we have played to show anyone ever has been racist toward a black player. In fact generally the black players in the clubs we play and also on the teams my kids play for end up usually being some of the better and more athletic players on a team. I have never seen them being treated differently or discriminated against in any instance. To assume that ATL United is not the exception to this when I have never seen it in any Academy/Select club I have seen in the 9-10 year history of me involved in Club Soccer have this issue is just not logical. i'm sorry it just isn't. I did not bring up your previous posts in an attempt to discredit you. My only two interactions with you have been in regard to issues of race or sexuality. I just want to make it glaringly obvious to you, so long as you and I are both members of this forum, it will never be easy for you to invalidate, isolate, or offend minority groups. Soccer is the world's sport and no parent or player should ever feel unwelcome taking part in any aspect of the sport, including on anonymous forums. To be completely candid, this topic hits incredibly close to home. Your attempts to gaslight myself and my children out of our experiences are hurtful at the very least. I guess I'm left wondering why your personal experiences are rule while mine are so easily dismissed? "Well I've never seen it, so it must not be an issue." It's easy isn't it? To say that you've never seen it so, why bother? I could also go on and on about the number of microagressions that you probably have witnessed, but were unable to pick up on. To address your point about ATL UTD, I don't think anyone has suggested that the academy is racist. In fact, I haven't seen anyone on this thread speak poorly about the club. If you read my previous post, my family and I have only ever had positive experiences with them. It's still important to acknowledge that the OP has heard these rumors from somewhere so there may be truth to them. That's the whole reason this thread was started. This topic is clearly one where you are uninterested in hearing other perspectives. That's fine. You can always PM me if you change your mind. To whoever else sees this, I know that it's easy to see this thread, my posts, as just some guy going on a rant. Please remember that my kids, and I are real. In fact I would bet that one of my kids has played with or against one (or more) of your children at some point or another. We've played in almost every league at almost every club. If we haven't been associated with one another I'm sure that our experiences are similar to families on your team. Being a parent of a Black child in this sport can be very rewarding, but it can also be scary, isolating, and painful. So, check-in with your fellow parents. If you see something, it means so much to just acknowledge it. A quick "Hey, I saw what happened and you have every right to be upset." would suffice. If a parent brings up an issue or concern regarding their kid, believe them even if you didn't see, hear or feel it first hand. Finally, it's okay to admit when you are wrong. Saying something that offended someone happens. It doesn't mean that you are racist, or a bad person, it just means that you have more to learn and that's okay. You are not on a rant and your points are valid, these harsh realities do exist. It is not about advocating a “cancel culture”, you are just offering experiences and I agree with them. soccerloafer When do you suggest are the necessary and accurate times to introduce this variable?? Is there a certain methodology to its introduction based on specific factors? A public forum is especially the most ideal platform to discuss this component. slickdaddy96 This is your story and I respect that, but to subsequently say it is “not logical” insinuates that it is not reasonable to have experienced something different, and that is highly offensive. Update for you....it does exist and just because you did not see it, does not mean it is not common. Are you that confident that you are aware of what occurs in every Academy/Select soccer environment? Of course not, so you shouldn’t be dismissive of others’ experiences. In life, we may have contentious conversations which produces opposing viewpoints, but we shouldn’t diminish someone’s perceptions. These types of conversations are essential for change to occur, and I am glad it’s being addressed. We are all human, and no one is perfect, but we have to truly commit to working on these things so society and youth soccer can be better. To the OP poster, I see that your post is no longer there and hope you didn’t get discouraged by the angle this thread navigated to. I have a friend whose son attends the program (younger age group) and have heard great things about it. The trial may beneficial, because you can look at the landscape, see how coaches interact (if possible) and also engage with other parents. Wish the best of luck to your son. |
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