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Post by rifle on Dec 17, 2023 10:51:12 GMT -5
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Post by bogan on Dec 17, 2023 10:56:04 GMT -5
They are run by MLS, so I’m betting their response will be rather flaccid. |
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Post by lajolla39 on Dec 17, 2023 11:22:13 GMT -5
This is the result of a league that runs member clubs as franchises.
If each club in the league was it's own entity some might choose to participate others might choose to not participate.
MLS = curated competition
Eventually someone is going to open up a real academy club in America that participates in the big European leagues. Once this happens they'll also regularly embarrass MLS teams when they play them.
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Post by missionimpossible on Dec 18, 2023 8:34:36 GMT -5
It will be interesting to see what becomes of this, if anything. The MLS tried to do this quietly citing congested schedules and player interest. However, its clear to everyone, this is about control. Also, are they legally bound to play in it? The move violates USSF’s Pro League Standards which states Division 1 (MLS) teams have to participate in the U.S. Open Cup. In the linked article worldsoccertalk.com/amp/news/mls-quits-us-open-cup-risks-losing-d1-sanctioning-20231216-WST-477772.html points out on page nine of the Standards: “U.S.-based teams must participate in all representative U.S. Soccer and CONCACAF competitions for which they are eligible.”. Look, the shear number of (antitrust) lawsuits were part of the reason for leadership changes at USSF in the past. Does this leadership group want to go down the same path? Other Pro and amateur leagues in the US free market economy are not just going to pack up and go away. |
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Post by Futsal Gawdess on Dec 20, 2023 11:36:34 GMT -5
I am not sure why I am laughing so hard at US Soccer giving MLS the Heisman 😆😂😆😂😆
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Post by bogan on Dec 20, 2023 12:16:35 GMT -5
I am not sure why I am laughing so hard at US Soccer giving MLS the Heisman 😆😂😆😂😆 Very surprised…but glad they did! |
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Post by lajolla39 on Dec 20, 2023 12:32:53 GMT -5
MLS is creating an environment where someone else can come in and take over.
MLS revenue from TV spots only works if you're the highest level of play.
Imagine if EPL chose to expand into both Canada (Quebec) and America (Somewhere in the Northeast) + made all the Canadian + American games free on TV. Essentially you'd get a single team representing an entire country.
Flights from NY to London are "only" 7 hours flying normally. You could probably push it down to 5 hours with a custom plane. This type of travel is completely doable.
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Post by Futsal Gawdess on Dec 20, 2023 12:40:14 GMT -5
MLS is creating an environment where someone else can come in and take over. MLS revenue from TV spots only works if you're the highest level of play. Imagine if EPL chose to expand into both Canada (Quebec) and America (Somewhere in the Northeast) + made all the Canadian + American games free on TV. Essentially you'd get a single team representing an entire country. Flights from NY to London are "only" 7 hours flying normally. You could probably push it down to 5 hours with a custom plane. This type of travel is completely doable. Not sure what you're on about, but are you saying a weekly 5-7 hour flight is doable and still be able to play high level footie every week? |
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Post by missionimpossible on Dec 20, 2023 13:21:47 GMT -5
worldsoccertalk.com article does a good job of highlighting the relationship that set the stage for this …
“Friends become enemies…
In the past, the US Soccer and MLS organizations were deeply intertwined. US National Team media rights were sold as a package deal with MLS. MLS’s marketing arm, Soccer United Marketing (SUM), was responsible for selling and managing these rights (as well as those of the U.S. Open Cup).
The competition that features and highlights non-MLS teams was largely an afterthought for SUM. As a result, the Open Cup languished with minimal coverage for many years.
… and partners become competitors
But that changed in 2023, as it was the first year where US Soccer took back control of its own media rights – including its 110-year-old national cup competition.
While it was shown on a patchwork of various streaming platforms and TV networks, the Open Cup received some of the biggest exposure it has ever seen. In part, this was due to MLS’s biggest-ever signing, Lionel Messi, happening to land with a team that already had a spot in the semifinals when he arrived.”
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Post by lajolla39 on Dec 20, 2023 13:30:36 GMT -5
MLS is creating an environment where someone else can come in and take over. MLS revenue from TV spots only works if you're the highest level of play. Imagine if EPL chose to expand into both Canada (Quebec) and America (Somewhere in the Northeast) + made all the Canadian + American games free on TV. Essentially you'd get a single team representing an entire country. Flights from NY to London are "only" 7 hours flying normally. You could probably push it down to 5 hours with a custom plane. This type of travel is completely doable. Not sure what you're on about, but are you saying a weekly 5-7 hour flight is doable and still be able to play high level footie every week? In the NFL Seattle Seahawks regularly takes 5 hour flights from west coast to east coast. In the NHL multiple teams fly 5+ hours from Canada to America for games. NBA also does 5+ hour flights for games. Having 1 or 2 EPL teams in North America isn't that bad of a deal. As you can see other leagues do 5 hour flights all the time. As long as all teams have roughly the same amount of travel they're all equally challenged by it. |
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Post by rifle on Dec 20, 2023 14:32:29 GMT -5
I am not sure why I am laughing so hard at US Soccer giving MLS the Heisman 😆😂😆😂😆 The double tallman 🖕🏼🖕🏼. I didn’t think they’d have the fortitude. |
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Post by Futsal Gawdess on Dec 20, 2023 20:48:01 GMT -5
Not sure what you're on about, but are you saying a weekly 5-7 hour flight is doable and still be able to play high level footie every week? In the NFL Seattle Seahawks regularly takes 5 hour flights from west coast to east coast. In the NHL multiple teams fly 5+ hours from Canada to America for games. NBA also does 5+ hour flights for games. Having 1 or 2 EPL teams in North America isn't that bad of a deal. As you can see other leagues do 5 hour flights all the time. As long as all teams have roughly the same amount of travel they're all equally challenged by it. Those leagues have the money and parity to always fly private/charter where they are driven to the plane. The MLS has limits on flying private vs commercial so as to illicit parity when compared to Millionaires vs Billionaires owning an MLS Franchise. Plus why are you trying to bring an EPL team into a US Pro soccer league. You do know the E in EPL stands for English? If the EPL was going to allow their teams to play other clubs outside of the UK, I'm thinking clubs like Barca, Real Madrid, PSG, Bayern, Ajax, Juventus, and Inter Milan would be more of a financial benefit to them. As opposed to going toe 2 toe with NYRB and NYCFC. Maybe I'm just not understanding your logic... |
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Post by missionimpossible on Dec 21, 2023 8:38:01 GMT -5
Formula for MLS success is to appeal to larger audiences. An EPL team flying back and forth from Europe, IMO, appeals to a select group in the knowledgeable soccer community but I don’t think it draws in casual fans.
People want excitement. What Miami has. Most MLS games are frankly BORING by professional sports standards. However, elite playmakers, like Messi and others, who can elevate the style of play bring a more exciting dynamic. Maybe even add a shot clock, the speed of play in the MLS is way too slow.
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Post by lajolla39 on Dec 21, 2023 14:05:43 GMT -5
In the NFL Seattle Seahawks regularly takes 5 hour flights from west coast to east coast. In the NHL multiple teams fly 5+ hours from Canada to America for games. NBA also does 5+ hour flights for games. Having 1 or 2 EPL teams in North America isn't that bad of a deal. As you can see other leagues do 5 hour flights all the time. As long as all teams have roughly the same amount of travel they're all equally challenged by it. Those leagues have the money and parity to always fly private/charter where they are driven to the plane. The MLS has limits on flying private vs commercial so as to illicit parity when compared to Millionaires vs Billionaires owning an MLS Franchise. Plus why are you trying to bring an EPL team into a US Pro soccer league. You do know the E in EPL stands for English? If the EPL was going to allow their teams to play other clubs outside of the UK, I'm thinking clubs like Barca, Real Madrid, PSG, Bayern, Ajax, Juventus, and Inter Milan would be more of a financial benefit to them. As opposed to going toe 2 toe with NYRB and NYCFC. Maybe I'm just not understanding your logic... My suggestion is that a single EPL club be in both America and Canada. These would be professional academies run as their own entity / business. If you did this instantly MLS would become a 2nd tier league + all of America/Canada would be watching a single team. |
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Post by Soccerhouse on Dec 21, 2023 16:25:34 GMT -5
US cup is huge for lower level teams, yea sure it's a nuisance for mls teams -- deal with it. It's all more of a nuisance now because of all these other random games and fake championships they have created throughout the year.
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Post by fanatic21 on Dec 21, 2023 17:01:58 GMT -5
Those leagues have the money and parity to always fly private/charter where they are driven to the plane. The MLS has limits on flying private vs commercial so as to illicit parity when compared to Millionaires vs Billionaires owning an MLS Franchise. Plus why are you trying to bring an EPL team into a US Pro soccer league. You do know the E in EPL stands for English? If the EPL was going to allow their teams to play other clubs outside of the UK, I'm thinking clubs like Barca, Real Madrid, PSG, Bayern, Ajax, Juventus, and Inter Milan would be more of a financial benefit to them. As opposed to going toe 2 toe with NYRB and NYCFC. Maybe I'm just not understanding your logic... My suggestion is that a single EPL club be in both America and Canada. These would be professional academies run as their own entity / business. If you did this instantly MLS would become a 2nd tier league + all of America/Canada would be watching a single team. What happens when the American or Canadian “EPL” team gets relegated? Play in the Championship? |
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Post by rifle on Dec 21, 2023 17:04:40 GMT -5
My suggestion is that a single EPL club be in both America and Canada. These would be professional academies run as their own entity / business. If you did this instantly MLS would become a 2nd tier league + all of America/Canada would be watching a single team. What happens when the American or Canadian “EPL” team gets relegated? Play in the Championship? The team would disband at that point according to MLS logic. |
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Post by Futsal Gawdess on Dec 21, 2023 19:08:13 GMT -5
Those leagues have the money and parity to always fly private/charter where they are driven to the plane. The MLS has limits on flying private vs commercial so as to illicit parity when compared to Millionaires vs Billionaires owning an MLS Franchise. Plus why are you trying to bring an EPL team into a US Pro soccer league. You do know the E in EPL stands for English? If the EPL was going to allow their teams to play other clubs outside of the UK, I'm thinking clubs like Barca, Real Madrid, PSG, Bayern, Ajax, Juventus, and Inter Milan would be more of a financial benefit to them. As opposed to going toe 2 toe with NYRB and NYCFC. Maybe I'm just not understanding your logic... My suggestion is that a single EPL club be in both America and Canada. These would be professional academies run as their own entity / business. If you did this instantly MLS would become a 2nd tier league + all of America/Canada would be watching a single team. So we would be like Ligue 1, where nobody care about any one else other than PSG. Not sure advertisers would be interested in that model... |
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Post by Futsal Gawdess on Dec 21, 2023 19:11:17 GMT -5
US cup is huge for lower level teams, yea sure it's a nuisance for mls teams -- deal with it. It's all more of a nuisance now because of all these other random games and fake championships they have created throughout the year. Curious, Faux EPL teams aside, has any MLS club chosen to intentionally go for the NA Treble - US Open Cup, MLS Cup and the Concacaf Champions Cup? |
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Post by lajolla39 on Dec 21, 2023 19:52:04 GMT -5
My suggestion is that a single EPL club be in both America and Canada. These would be professional academies run as their own entity / business. If you did this instantly MLS would become a 2nd tier league + all of America/Canada would be watching a single team. So we would be like Ligue 1, where nobody care about any one else other than PSG. Not sure advertisers would be interested in that model... I picture it more like the Raiders in Las Vegas. There would be a national Raiders following, but half (or more) of the audience would be there to see whoever the Raiders are playing against. My issue with MLS is the play just isn't very good. It's hard to get excited by a game when the action is boring compared to other leagues. |
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Post by Futsal Gawdess on Dec 21, 2023 20:48:20 GMT -5
So we would be like Ligue 1, where nobody care about any one else other than PSG. Not sure advertisers would be interested in that model... I picture it more like the Raiders in Las Vegas. There would be a national Raiders following, but half (or more) of the audience would be there to see whoever the Raiders are playing against. My issue with MLS is the play just isn't very good. It's hard to get excited by a game when the action is boring compared to other leagues. So we would be like Ligue 1, where nobody cares about any one else other than PSG. Not sure advertisers would be interested in that model... |
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Post by rifle on Dec 21, 2023 22:05:44 GMT -5
My issue with MLS is the play just isn't very good. It's hard to get excited by a game when the action is boring compared to other leagues. And THAT…. Is the problem. MLS mimics other pro sports that are built for running ads during the game.. but fans get a league that prioritizes crappy salaries and parity. The sad truth is.. it stops being fun to watch the middle school team when your kid hits ninth grade. |
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Post by bogan on Dec 21, 2023 22:30:21 GMT -5
My issue with MLS is the play just isn't very good. It's hard to get excited by a game when the action is boring compared to other leagues. And THAT…. Is the problem. MLS mimics other pro sports that are built for running ads during the game.. but fans get a league that prioritizes crappy salaries and parity. The sad truth is.. it stops being fun to watch the middle school team when your kid hits ninth grade. 🤣 |
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Post by rifle on Dec 22, 2023 8:16:57 GMT -5
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Post by missionimpossible on Dec 28, 2023 12:02:29 GMT -5
Why doesn’t MLS just buy the USL and introduce pro/ rel just for the USL teams? Not sure exactly how this might work but they would probably want established teams to be safe and a few USL teams are promoted/ relegated contingent on their play in the US Open. It would make it a lot more interesting …
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Post by lajolla39 on Dec 28, 2023 12:28:46 GMT -5
Why doesn’t MLS just buy the USL and introduce pro/ rel just for the USL teams? Not sure exactly how this might work but they would probably want established teams to be safe and a few USL teams are promoted/ relegated contingent on their play in the US Open. It would make it a lot more interesting … I think it all comes down to in the USA you don't have the concept of a "transfer fee" top clubs pay to lower level clubs for finding and developing talent. With transfer fees it encourages clubs to play together because a lower level club can make $$$ selling off players. Without transfer fees you end up with leagues working against each other + trying to entice players to play in their league because you don't need to pay the club that developed them. |
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Post by missionimpossible on Dec 28, 2023 13:07:47 GMT -5
MLS is somehow letting Inter Miami sign a dream team with Messi, Suarez, Busquets, etc despite the salary cap and single entity structure. So somehow, it seams, they could potentially incorporate a transfer fee, trading system as well for D2, D3, etc
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Post by rifle on Dec 28, 2023 14:30:46 GMT -5
MLS is somehow letting Inter Miami sign a dream team with Messi, Suarez, Busquets, etc despite the salary cap and single entity structure. So somehow, it seams, they could potentially incorporate a transfer fee, trading system as well for D2, D3, etc Could. But they won’t. The league was founded with a written statement saying they would grow and add P/R in alignment with FIFA regs. But then they decided they wanted to lose* money and keep the league closed, and run it like NFL instead. *I wonder if they still claim to be losing money.. Or is that just when MLS negotiates with the players union? |
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Post by bogan on Dec 29, 2023 8:50:15 GMT -5
“ Major League Soccer (MLS) is facing mounting criticism for stifling the growth and potential of American players, creating an environment that hinders their ascent to the top echelons of global football. One glaring issue is the lack of competitiveness within the league, which adversely affects players' mentality and ultimately impedes their progress.
The absence of promotion and relegation in MLS contributes to lackluster games, where teams often have little at stake. The league's peculiar 18-team playoff format further dilutes the significance of the regular season, rendering the league table irrelevant. In a system where the 18th-placed team can clinch the title, the competitive spirit is compromised, and genuine excellence is overshadowed by a convoluted postseason.
American talent is seemingly undervalued within the league, as nearly 60% of MLS players are foreign, leaving domestic players with limited opportunities. The odds for an American to break into the league are reminiscent of a lottery, discouraging aspiring talents and prompting many to explore opportunities overseas where their skills are more recognized.
Wages in MLS are not commensurate with the league's aspirations, as salary caps restrict teams from investing substantially in their players. While the league prioritizes hefty paychecks for foreign stars, it inadvertently devalues the contributions of homegrown talent. This disparity is evident in the composition of the U.S. national team, where a paucity of MLS players raises questions about the league's role in developing top-tier American talent.
Contrary to expectations, the best young American players are increasingly finding success in European leagues, bypassing the limitations imposed by MLS. This trend reflects a disheartening reality where technically gifted players are overlooked by the league, leading to a drain of talent and a missed opportunity for American soccer development.
Moreover, MLS clubs operate under a singular entity structure, lacking the autonomy that characterizes independent clubs. This business-oriented approach undermines the essence of traditional football clubs and limits the diversity of the soccer landscape in the United States.
In a perplexing move, MLS has distanced itself from the U.S. Open Cup, the only genuine competitive tournament between leagues. This decision raises eyebrows, as it appears to be a step backward in fostering healthy competition and showcasing the league's capabilities on a broader stage.”
-Scott Michaels
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Post by missionimpossible on Dec 29, 2023 11:14:31 GMT -5
I have no idea how Miami is putting together the equivalent of the NY Yankees under the MLS salary cap, even with the designated player rule. It’s confusing to me, especially with hints that MLS and mad money from Apple TV may be subsidizing salaries? Messi et al is definitely good for the league but how will other MLS teams compete? Maybe this will be the straw that broke the camel’s back….
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