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Post by guest on Oct 20, 2014 19:18:30 GMT -5
I'm going to be honest. This Athena thing is just fantastic. I love handicapping the bracket every weekend with fellow parents. Who's winning, who's losing. It's like a pennant race except more interesting, no steroids and several fewer millions involved!
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Post by SoccerMom on Oct 21, 2014 8:23:59 GMT -5
For U13? boys or girls? the girls side is very lopsided
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Post by zizou on Oct 21, 2014 8:43:00 GMT -5
For U13? boys or girls? the girls side is very lopsided There certainly is a class system operating in Georgia Soccer, at least at younger ages on girls side. It does not start at U13, but it is certainly manifest there. There are a few clubs that hold the overwhelming majority of big, strong, physical, and/or talented players, and then there is everyone else. There are 5 (maybe 6, although the sixth is not in same league as top 5 really) teams in U13 Athena A that are just better than everyone else. This is clear. The teams outside of the top 5-6, by and large, have a handful of good to very good players, but the top teams have good to great players at every position. And they have more on the bench. This is not to denigrate teams outside of the top few; this is just the reality of things. But it is probably the case that this is the most lopsided it will every be. Next Spring most likely 4 of those 5 teams are going to be in RPL, then from then on 3 of those teams will be playing ECNL and a few more will be playing RPL. So, just like for every other age group, the level of competition will be more even starting in Spring of 2015. It also is the case that things will change as physical development, and perhaps technical ability, starts to even out a bit. Who knows if all of the teams that look great now will still look great in 3 years? |
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Post by SoccerMom on Oct 21, 2014 8:47:43 GMT -5
For U13? boys or girls? the girls side is very lopsided There certainly is a class system operating in Georgia Soccer, at least at younger ages on girls side. It does not start at U13, but it is certainly manifest there. There are a few clubs that hold the overwhelming majority of big, strong, physical, and/or talented players, and then there is everyone else. There are 5 (maybe 6, although the sixth is not in same league as top 5 really) teams in U13 Athena A that are just better than everyone else. This is clear. The teams outside of the top 5-6, by and large, have a handful of good to very good players, but the top teams have good to great players at every position. And they have more on the bench. This is not to denigrate teams outside of the top few; this is just the reality of things. But it is probably the case that this is the most lopsided it will every be. Next Spring most likely 4 of those 5 teams are going to be in RPL, then from then on 3 of those teams will be playing ECNL and a few more will be playing RPL. So, just like for every other age group, the level of competition will be more even starting in Spring of 2015. It also is the case that things will change as physical development, and perhaps technical ability, starts to even out a bit. Who knows if all of the teams that look great now will still look great in 3 years? Yea I know...in the past (Academy) it was just simple as we just ddnt play a team that was not top 5 or 6. In the spring it will def be a lot different, the race is on for sure..we're 1/2 way there. Also we will see if they take top 2 or top 4 |
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Post by sidelinemama on Oct 21, 2014 9:52:07 GMT -5
This is definitely true on the girls side and is one of the reasons we are staying at a smaller club until we are older and can see where we really want to go. We are not ready to make a big drive until U15, which seems to be when things shake out a little more. Even on this forum, people talk about how different the leading teams are at U13 versus U16. I feel like if more people would be patient and worry about their own child's development (and that team's development) vs being on a winning team, it would be a bit more balanced. I mean you will always have great teams, but is it better to sit the bench on the top team when you could star on the number 4 or 5 team? I don't know the answer, but I would think it's better to play at these young ages and make those kind of choices when they are older. Of course, the team has to be the right fit and maybe that's the case. It's complicated to say the least!
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Post by SoccerMom on Oct 21, 2014 9:59:51 GMT -5
This is definitely true on the girls side and is one of the reasons we are staying at a smaller club until we are older and can see where we really want to go. We are not ready to make a big drive until U15, which seems to be when things shake out a little more. Even on this forum, people talk about how different the leading teams are at U13 versus U16. I feel like if more people would be patient and worry about their own child's development (and that team's development) vs being on a winning team, it would be a bit more balanced. I mean you will always have great teams, but is it better to sit the bench on the top team when you could star on the number 4 or 5 team? I don't know the answer, but I would think it's better to play at these young ages and make those kind of choices when they are older. Of course, the team has to be the right fit and maybe that's the case. It's complicated to say the least! We were always on a big club...it happened to be near us. But I don't think I would have it any other way, I like the big club |
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Post by sidelinemama on Oct 21, 2014 10:26:41 GMT -5
This is definitely true on the girls side and is one of the reasons we are staying at a smaller club until we are older and can see where we really want to go. We are not ready to make a big drive until U15, which seems to be when things shake out a little more. Even on this forum, people talk about how different the leading teams are at U13 versus U16. I feel like if more people would be patient and worry about their own child's development (and that team's development) vs being on a winning team, it would be a bit more balanced. I mean you will always have great teams, but is it better to sit the bench on the top team when you could star on the number 4 or 5 team? I don't know the answer, but I would think it's better to play at these young ages and make those kind of choices when they are older. Of course, the team has to be the right fit and maybe that's the case. It's complicated to say the least! We were always on a big club...it happened to be near us. But I don't think I would have it any other way, I like the big club For sure! It would be nice to have 4 or 5 big clubs within a 10-20 mile radius like so many do. We just don't and are making the best of it for now! |
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Post by SoccerMom on Oct 21, 2014 10:31:28 GMT -5
We were always on a big club...it happened to be near us. But I don't think I would have it any other way, I like the big club For sure! It would be nice to have 4 or 5 big clubs within a 10-20 mile radius like so many do. We just don't and are making the best of it for now! I don't blame you one bit! I don't think I could travel too far. I like the convenience of being at practice within 15 minutes...I cant imagine commuting 2 hours to practice. I think if I was in that situation I would just leave my kid in the small club. |
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Post by 04gparent on Oct 21, 2014 14:21:09 GMT -5
Basically from my view its whatever the parents can stomach. If my daughter was the at a place that was not teaching soccer to be played the right way I would consider leaving for "better" training. This is typically a sore and subjective topic. So essentially I think parents should do whats best for then. The clubs will definitely do what is best for them. Every player is a free agent....
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Post by stevieg on Oct 21, 2014 17:09:36 GMT -5
There are 5 (maybe 6, although the sixth is not in same league as top 5 really) teams in U13 Athena A that are just better than everyone else. This is clear. The teams outside of the top 5-6, by and large, have a handful of good to very good players, but the top teams have good to great players at every position. And they have more on the bench. This is not to denigrate teams outside of the top few; this is just the reality of things. I think you have it summed up pretty well, but I would say that there is a definite drop from the middle 5 (or 6) to the bottom 3 if you look at the scores. Hopefully, they will allow some Athena B teams to come up and drop some of the bottom teams down so they can compete. It can't be fun to lose 8,9,10-0. |
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Post by SoccerMom on Oct 22, 2014 7:54:28 GMT -5
There are 5 (maybe 6, although the sixth is not in same league as top 5 really) teams in U13 Athena A that are just better than everyone else. This is clear. The teams outside of the top 5-6, by and large, have a handful of good to very good players, but the top teams have good to great players at every position. And they have more on the bench. This is not to denigrate teams outside of the top few; this is just the reality of things. I think you have it summed up pretty well, but I would say that there is a definite drop from the middle 5 (or 6) to the bottom 3 if you look at the scores. Hopefully, they will allow some Athena B teams to come up and drop some of the bottom teams down so they can compete. It can't be fun to lose 8,9,10-0. Its not fun to win or to lose by that score at all. Spring should be different with top 2-4 teams moving to RPL, not sure how many teams will be relegated to Athena B and how many will come up, theres currently 14 teams in Athena A and I know that # is supposed to drop in the spring...I believe someone posted an earlier thread about the amount of teams in the spring |
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Post by SoccerMom on Oct 22, 2014 7:58:12 GMT -5
Found it.... The committee’s intent is to collapse all divisions to 10 or 11 teams in the Spring. The U13 Athena divisions may look as follows: 10 teams for Spring 2015 in Athena A (from 14 in the Fall 2014) 10 teams for Spring 2015 in Athena B (from 13 in the Fall 2014) 11 teams for Spring 2015 in Athena C East (from 12 in the Fall 2014) 11 teams for Spring 2015 in Athena C West (from 12 in the Fall 2014) 10 teams for Spring 2015 in Athena D East (from 10 in the Fall 2014) 10 teams for Spring 2015 in Athena D West (from 10 in the Fall 2014) 10 teams for Spring 2015 in Athena E (from 6 in the Fall 2014) 72 projected teams total (from 77 in the Fall) The plan was developed on the assumption of the following conditions: 1. One team in Athena C has folded, dropping the current number of U13 Athena teams to 76. 2. The top four Athena A teams of the Fall 2014 Season will be promoted to R3PL in the Spring 2015, dropping the projected number of U13 Athena teams in the Spring from 76 to 72. 3. It is assumed no new teams apply, and no current teams withdraw. Any added (or removed) teams may change the above numbers and affect promotion/relegation. Because teams were placed in Fall 2014 based mainly on academy results, those teams that finish near the bottom of their tables should expect to get relegated (as outlined in July), regardless of promotion of the top teams to R3PL, or other divisions, due to team reduction in most divisions. Promotion/relegation remains at the discretion of the Select Committee. The Committee can make major revisions to the groups based on how teams fair in each Division play, as the ultimate intent is to form the most competitive divisions possible. Read more: gasoccerforum.com/thread/690/spring-2015-u13-athena-brackets#ixzz3GsVNTv2P |
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Post by sidelinemama on Oct 22, 2014 12:55:00 GMT -5
So how are they going to go from 13 to 10 in B? I get that if 4 teams go to RPL in A, they are left with 10. But to move anyone up from C, (which is supposed to be one team from East and one from West), they would have to relegate 5 teams from B to the two C brackets to get 10. Correct? Someone said that they may relegate 4 teams from A. That would make Athena B almost completely new teams! I hope they figure it out and create appropriate competition at each level. Are they known for being able to do this going in to the U13 Spring Season?
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Post by SoccerMom on Oct 22, 2014 12:59:56 GMT -5
So how are they going to go from 13 to 10 in B? I get that if 4 teams go to RPL in A, they are left with 10. But to move anyone up from C, (which is supposed to be one team from East and one from West), they would have to relegate 5 teams from B to the two C brackets to get 10. Correct? Someone said that they may relegate 4 teams from A. That would make Athena B almost completely new teams! I hope they figure it out and create appropriate competition at each level. Are they known for being able to do this going in to the U13 Spring Season? this is the first time they have done this with the u13, so its all new and no one really know for sure if they will relegate 2 or 4 teams to RPL. Not sure how theyre going to drop to all those # |
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Post by sidelinemama on Oct 22, 2014 13:14:40 GMT -5
So how are they going to go from 13 to 10 in B? I get that if 4 teams go to RPL in A, they are left with 10. But to move anyone up from C, (which is supposed to be one team from East and one from West), they would have to relegate 5 teams from B to the two C brackets to get 10. Correct? Someone said that they may relegate 4 teams from A. That would make Athena B almost completely new teams! I hope they figure it out and create appropriate competition at each level. Are they known for being able to do this going in to the U13 Spring Season? this is the first time they have done this with the u13, so its all new and no one really know for sure if they will relegate 2 or 4 teams to RPL. Not sure how theyre going to drop to all those # Yes, I am hoping for the best. Seems a tad complicated to say the least! That is a lot of shifting. I foresee them fielding a lot of phone calls however they decide to do it, lol! |
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Post by SoccerMom on Oct 22, 2014 13:16:39 GMT -5
this is the first time they have done this with the u13, so its all new and no one really know for sure if they will relegate 2 or 4 teams to RPL. Not sure how theyre going to drop to all those # Yes, I am hoping for the best. Seems a tad complicated to say the least! That is a lot of shifting. I foresee them fielding a lot of phone calls however they decide to do it, lol! That's for sure, and of course nothing is written in stone...so I guess we wait and see |
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Post by zizou on Oct 22, 2014 13:24:34 GMT -5
So how are they going to go from 13 to 10 in B? I get that if 4 teams go to RPL in A, they are left with 10. But to move anyone up from C, (which is supposed to be one team from East and one from West), they would have to relegate 5 teams from B to the two C brackets to get 10. Correct? Someone said that they may relegate 4 teams from A. That would make Athena B almost completely new teams! I hope they figure it out and create appropriate competition at each level. Are they known for being able to do this going in to the U13 Spring Season? For starters, I think they are assuming 4 Athena A teams will go RPL...and I believe the plan is to drop 4 from A to B...so that means 4 from B must join the remaining 6 in A...that would leave 9 in B before relegation...if they plan on having 10 in B and only bring up one each from C East and West, then that is pretty simple...only 1 goes down...and there appears to be exactly one team that is really struggling in B so maybe that is appropriate... Now, if only 2 teams from GA go RPL, that would modify the plan! But that seems unlikely... |
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Post by sidelinemama on Oct 22, 2014 13:32:36 GMT -5
But if 4 from A move down and 4 from B move up, isn't that a wash? Sorry if I'm missing something!
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Post by SoccerMom on Oct 22, 2014 13:37:51 GMT -5
But if 4 from A move down and 4 from B move up, isn't that a wash? Sorry if I'm missing something! 4 from A need to move down...have u checked out the standings? |
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Post by zizou on Oct 22, 2014 13:39:57 GMT -5
There are 5 (maybe 6, although the sixth is not in same league as top 5 really) teams in U13 Athena A that are just better than everyone else. This is clear. The teams outside of the top 5-6, by and large, have a handful of good to very good players, but the top teams have good to great players at every position. And they have more on the bench. This is not to denigrate teams outside of the top few; this is just the reality of things. I think you have it summed up pretty well, but I would say that there is a definite drop from the middle 5 (or 6) to the bottom 3 if you look at the scores. Hopefully, they will allow some Athena B teams to come up and drop some of the bottom teams down so they can compete. It can't be fun to lose 8,9,10-0. Yes, I did not want to say anything terrible, but the bottom few teams do not have any real impact players, at least when I have seen them play. But everyone can have an off game, so that may be inaccurate. I mean a player or two that can make a difference by themselves to help the team win. TH Navy has at least one, and they also may improve their lot a bit since their early season schedule was so brutal. But only a bit. Not all that many points left on the board. The Middle 6 teams all seem to have at least a few players like that. Not necessarily just offensive minded player(s), but also a player or two that can make a difference defensively or in helping team keep possession of the ball under pressure. I think the top few teams in B each have a few players like that, but none of those teams are totally dominant in B. Another real difference, though, is the relative weakness of the weakest players. If there is a significant disparity out there somewhere even kids this young will figure it out pretty quickly and take advantage. This is the brutal way of the world. |
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Post by zizou on Oct 22, 2014 13:42:02 GMT -5
But if 4 from A move down and 4 from B move up, isn't that a wash? Sorry if I'm missing something! 4 will be gone from GA Soccer by moving to RPL. If 4 get relegated then that leaves only 6 in A before promotion from B. There are 14 in A now. |
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Post by sidelinemama on Oct 22, 2014 13:45:03 GMT -5
I get how A gets 10-I don't know how B gets 10 from 13 and absorbs 2 from the C divisions and 4 from A without relegating 5, lol!
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Post by SoccerMom on Oct 22, 2014 13:45:46 GMT -5
I think you have it summed up pretty well, but I would say that there is a definite drop from the middle 5 (or 6) to the bottom 3 if you look at the scores. Hopefully, they will allow some Athena B teams to come up and drop some of the bottom teams down so they can compete. It can't be fun to lose 8,9,10-0. Yes, I did not want to say anything terrible, but the bottom few teams do not have any real impact players, at least when I have seen them play. But everyone can have an off game, so that may be inaccurate. I mean a player or two that can make a difference by themselves to help the team win. TH Navy has at least one, and they also may improve their lot a bit since their early season schedule was so brutal. But only a bit. Not all that many points left on the board. The Middle 6 teams all seem to have at least a few players like that. Not necessarily just offensive minded player(s), but also a player or two that can make a difference defensively or in helping team keep possession of the ball under pressure. I think the top few teams in B each have a few players like that, but none of those teams are totally dominant in B. Another real difference, though, is the relative weakness of the weakest players. If there is a significant disparity out there somewhere even kids this young will figure it out pretty quickly and take advantage. This is the brutal way of the world. Yea I don't want to be mean either...but the reality is some of those teams are getting killed in Athena A, theres a reason why the bottom teams never played the top teams during regular seasons. Once the top 4 move out, maybe it wont be so lopsided, the top 4 or 5 teams have very good teams |
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Post by zizou on Oct 22, 2014 13:54:35 GMT -5
I get how A gets 10-I don't know how B gets 10 from 13 and absorbs 2 from the C divisions and 4 from A without relegating 5, lol! I am not an expert, but if 4 move up to A that leaves 9 in B. I the goal is to have 10 in B, they can do it this way: (i) relegate the one team in B that is really struggling, and (ii) move the winners of C East and C West to B. That makes 10 in B. Then they have to figure out C, but that was not the question, so I am not going to try any more mind reading tricks today! |
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Post by Keeper on Oct 22, 2014 14:59:12 GMT -5
Love how you guys are having the Same conversations I'm having about my nieces team. Only difference is that they are in E. With them being undefeated our hopes is they get moved up to D but with making a bracket of 10 when there's only 6 now makes it complicated I bet. Plus the coach and TM don't care for competition so they're hoping to stay in E. Has anyone looked at C, D & E to see how they'll get all these teams relegated?
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Post by sidelinemama on Oct 22, 2014 20:08:41 GMT -5
I get how A gets 10-I don't know how B gets 10 from 13 and absorbs 2 from the C divisions and 4 from A without relegating 5, lol! I am not an expert, but if 4 move up to A that leaves 9 in B. I the goal is to have 10 in B, they can do it this way: (i) relegate the one team in B that is really struggling, and (ii) move the winners of C East and C West to B. That makes 10 in B. Then they have to figure out C, but that was not the question, so I am not going to try any more mind reading tricks today! But these numbers do not include the 4 teams that were relegated from Athena A? |
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Post by SoccerMom on Oct 23, 2014 7:15:06 GMT -5
I am not an expert, but if 4 move up to A that leaves 9 in B. I the goal is to have 10 in B, they can do it this way: (i) relegate the one team in B that is really struggling, and (ii) move the winners of C East and C West to B. That makes 10 in B. Then they have to figure out C, but that was not the question, so I am not going to try any more mind reading tricks today! But these numbers do not include the 4 teams that were relegated from Athena A? I would assume not, since they would be in a different league? |
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Post by sidelinemama on Oct 23, 2014 7:29:45 GMT -5
The bottom four (possibly 2) teams in Athena A will be I. Athena B, right?
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Post by zizou on Oct 23, 2014 7:39:28 GMT -5
She is right. I prefaced my comments by saying I was not an expert! Apparently I could not pass 4th grade arithmetic. So if 4 go RPL, 4 get promoted from B to A, and 4 go the other way, then that still leaves 13 in B before relegation. To get to 10 in B, then, it appears they would have to drop 5!
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Post by SoccerMom on Oct 23, 2014 8:06:43 GMT -5
She is right. I prefaced my comments by saying I was not an expert! Apparently I could not pass 4th grade arithmetic. So if 4 go RPL, 4 get promoted from B to A, and 4 go the other way, then that still leaves 13 in B before relegation. To get to 10 in B, then, it appears they would have to drop 5! Maybe someone didn't pass arithmetic in that office either! lol Its definitely confusing, didn't it also say that an Athena C team wont be participating in the spring? I think the only true way to figure it out is to grab a piece of paper and actually write it down like a math problem :-) |
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