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Post by ball2futbol on Jul 27, 2024 7:49:01 GMT -5
If this pans out as stated, I have to believe institutions like Vandy, Wake and Duke will begin evaluating their P4 conference alignment's. Even with robust endowments, it will be hard to justify keeping pace with state school programs at a fraction of the cost of attendance.
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Post by soccerlegacy on Jul 29, 2024 14:44:11 GMT -5
What is the actual deal with International players? I mean, why are there so many? On the boys side I kinda get it, but on the girls side, I don't. The talent level is not that disparate from American to International. Sure they have caught up to playing closer to our level, but we are still considered a Top 3-4 team in the world (at worst). So why do colleges take so many internationals?
I've heard everything from, "they pay their own way so it is cheaper to take them" to "they have their scholarships paid for because they are international". What is the story to the amount of internationals at American colleges playing soccer. I'm sure someone on here has a good understanding of this.
Side note: it's crazy to watch the Olympics (or any other international event) and have players from other teams (not USA) be announced, saying "so-and-so" played, or is currently playing, at "X" university in the USA.
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Post by lajolla39 on Jul 30, 2024 8:18:32 GMT -5
What is the actual deal with International players? I mean, why are there so many? On the boys side I kinda get it, but on the girls side, I don't. The talent level is not that disparate from American to International. Sure they have caught up to playing closer to our level, but we are still considered a Top 3-4 team in the world (at worst). So why do colleges take so many internationals? I've heard everything from, "they pay their own way so it is cheaper to take them" to "they have their scholarships paid for because they are international". What is the story to the amount of internationals at American colleges playing soccer. I'm sure someone on here has a good understanding of this. Side note: it's crazy to watch the Olympics (or any other international event) and have players from other teams (not USA) be announced, saying "so-and-so" played, or is currently playing, at "X" university in the USA. I don't get it either. You see it in the NWSL as well. There's players in America that have been playing youth competitive and college soccer for 10-15 years total but clubs seem to prefer international players from crappy leagues. There's probably 50 to 1 local US to International players available. Something is broken in the American youth to college to pro pathway.
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Post by Futsal Gawdess on Jul 30, 2024 17:48:27 GMT -5
What is the actual deal with International players? I mean, why are there so many? On the boys side I kinda get it, but on the girls side, I don't. The talent level is not that disparate from American to International. Sure they have caught up to playing closer to our level, but we are still considered a Top 3-4 team in the world (at worst). So why do colleges take so many internationals? I've heard everything from, "they pay their own way so it is cheaper to take them" to "they have their scholarships paid for because they are international". What is the story to the amount of internationals at American colleges playing soccer. I'm sure someone on here has a good understanding of this. Side note: it's crazy to watch the Olympics (or any other international event) and have players from other teams (not USA) be announced, saying "so-and-so" played, or is currently playing, at "X" university in the USA. International players can receive both academic and athletic scholarships. However, they are not eligible for federal financial aid, such as grants or loans from the U.S. government. Many colleges and universities offer their own financial aid programs, which international students can apply for. Additionally, private loans may be an option, though they often require a U.S. citizen or permanent resident as a co-signer. On the men’s side, many international ‘freshmen’ have previously been part of football academies in their home countries but did not make the cut. As a result, they often bring a more 'mature' professional approach to the game, sometimes being older and more experienced. This contrasts with true freshman domestic players who maybe used to mom & dad doing everything for them. This could be why college coaches find international players attractive. However, the influx of international players also presents challenges for American students. The increased competition for roster spots and scholarships can make it harder for domestic players to secure opportunities. Coaches may prefer international players for their experience and professionalism, which can limit the chances for a domestic 18 year old. This usually doesn't apply to players from professional clubs like AU Additionally, the pay-to-play system in the U.S. can be prohibitively expensive, coupled with we'll take who can pay, as opposed to developing players, further narrowing the pool of domestic players who can compete at the collegiate level. For women, age and experience also play a significant role. Additionally, the NWSL has a rule requiring foreign nationals to have been enrolled at a U.S. university to be eligible for the draft. While I’m not as familiar with the specifics of this rule, it is an important factor. This season, the NWSL increased the number of international players allowed on each team to eight. I still fundamentally believe the presence of international players can enrich the college soccer experience by fostering a diverse and competitive environment. However, it is essential to recognize and address the barriers that domestic players face to ensure a level playing field for all aspiring athletes. I have always proposed going the professional route and limiting the number of scholarships given to international "students."
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Post by soccerlegacy on Jul 31, 2024 14:23:40 GMT -5
What is the actual deal with International players? I mean, why are there so many? On the boys side I kinda get it, but on the girls side, I don't. The talent level is not that disparate from American to International. Sure they have caught up to playing closer to our level, but we are still considered a Top 3-4 team in the world (at worst). So why do colleges take so many internationals? I've heard everything from, "they pay their own way so it is cheaper to take them" to "they have their scholarships paid for because they are international". What is the story to the amount of internationals at American colleges playing soccer. I'm sure someone on here has a good understanding of this. Side note: it's crazy to watch the Olympics (or any other international event) and have players from other teams (not USA) be announced, saying "so-and-so" played, or is currently playing, at "X" university in the USA. International players can receive both academic and athletic scholarships. However, they are not eligible for federal financial aid, such as grants or loans from the U.S. government. Many colleges and universities offer their own financial aid programs, which international students can apply for. Additionally, private loans may be an option, though they often require a U.S. citizen or permanent resident as a co-signer. On the men’s side, many international ‘freshmen’ have previously been part of football academies in their home countries but did not make the cut. As a result, they often bring a more 'mature' professional approach to the game, sometimes being older and more experienced. This contrasts with true freshman domestic players who maybe used to mom & dad doing everything for them. This could be why college coaches find international players attractive. However, the influx of international players also presents challenges for American students. The increased competition for roster spots and scholarships can make it harder for domestic players to secure opportunities. Coaches may prefer international players for their experience and professionalism, which can limit the chances for a domestic 18 year old. This usually doesn't apply to players from professional clubs like AU Additionally, the pay-to-play system in the U.S. can be prohibitively expensive, coupled with we'll take who can pay, as opposed to developing players, further narrowing the pool of domestic players who can compete at the collegiate level. For women, age and experience also play a significant role. Additionally, the NWSL has a rule requiring foreign nationals to have been enrolled at a U.S. university to be eligible for the draft. While I’m not as familiar with the specifics of this rule, it is an important factor. This season, the NWSL increased the number of international players allowed on each team to eight. I still fundamentally believe the presence of international players can enrich the college soccer experience by fostering a diverse and competitive environment. However, it is essential to recognize and address the barriers that domestic players face to ensure a level playing field for all aspiring athletes. I have always proposed going the professional route and limiting the number of scholarships given to international "students." Thanks for the breakdown. I get that having international players can have value, but also agree that there should be limits on scholarships for them to provide opportunities amongst natural citizens.
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Post by soccernoleuk on Aug 2, 2024 10:15:35 GMT -5
We now know first hand that the roster limits are changing things. My daughter (class of 2025) received an email from a coach yesterday (small D1). This is a school she has been working with for a while, and she is on their short list. In the email the coach mentioned the new roster size restrictions and that they now have uncertainty around their limits and how it is going to change scholarship opportunities. So, until further notice they have put 2025 recruiting on hold with no timeframe to resume.
After seeing the email my daughter reached out via Snap to a couple other players she saw at camps for this school, and they received the same message via email.
Unfortunately this school had 30 on their 2023 roster, and look to be in the same ballpark for 2024. So, they probably have to shrink the roster a little and have no idea what the rules are to do so.
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Post by lajolla39 on Aug 2, 2024 11:30:54 GMT -5
We now know first hand that the roster limits are changing things. My daughter (class of 2025) received an email from a coach yesterday (small D1). This is a school she has been working with for a while, and she is on their short list. In the email the coach mentioned the new roster size restrictions and that they now have uncertainty around their limits and how it is going to change scholarship opportunities. So, until further notice they have put 2025 recruiting on hold with no timeframe to resume. After seeing the email my daughter reached out via Snap to a couple other players she saw at camps for this school, and they received the same message via email. Unfortunately this school had 30 on their 2023 roster, and look to be in the same ballpark for 2024. So, they probably have to shrink the roster a little and have no idea what the rules are to do so. Interesting, so the coach is saying that they're happy with the current players and HS recruits aren't a priority. I bet the coach is thinking that there's going to be a lot of players they can pick up via transfer portal likely because multiple teams need to get down to 28.
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Post by ball2futbol on Aug 2, 2024 12:55:36 GMT -5
Key phrase is “up to 28” full scholarships. AD’s ultimately will assign that scholarship number limit per school. Outside of large state institutions with a relatively modest cost of attendance, the likelihood of that number being 28 is slim. Most soccer programs don’t have the budget to cover the 14 they already offer.
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Post by mightydawg on Aug 2, 2024 16:13:58 GMT -5
Key phrase is “up to 28” full scholarships. AD’s ultimately will assign that scholarship number limit per school. Outside of large state institutions with a relatively modest cost of attendance, the likelihood of that number being 28 is slim. Most soccer programs don’t have the budget to cover the 14 they already offer. But they can still offer partial scholarships.
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Post by ball2futbol on Aug 3, 2024 13:36:53 GMT -5
Yes but from a competitive standpoint there will be a major gap from the haves and the have not’s. With the transfer portal the gap will happen immediately.
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Post by tobu on Aug 3, 2024 16:51:15 GMT -5
If anything should be a meritocracy, it should be sports. I kind of lean against affirmative action for American students in collegiate sports.
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Post by crazzzy4soccer on Aug 4, 2024 7:40:44 GMT -5
So I know every situation is differenf but we just came back from a weekend with a P4 Private school where the cost of attendance is pretty steep. We got offered a full scholorship at our visit. I asked the coach about roster limits etc and he said there AD is fully committed to providing the funds to keep pace with other P4’s. So it will definately be interesting how this all really and truly pans out. But I certaintly wish the 2026’s luck on there journey!
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Post by lajolla39 on Aug 4, 2024 9:09:07 GMT -5
So I know every situation is differenf but we just came back from a weekend with a P4 Private school where the cost of attendance is pretty steep. We got offered a full scholorship at our visit. I asked the coach about roster limits etc and he said there AD is fully committed to providing the funds to keep pace with other P4’s. So it will definately be interesting how this all really and truly pans out. But I certaintly wish the 2026’s luck on there journey! Congratulations, kind of interesting that your club liason isn't able to position your kid with college coaches but attending a college camp ended up with a full ride offer. Whatever works, but I'd be a little pissed at my kids youth club. For the women's game roster limits is the first step to upping the level of play. Hopefully the women will get rid of unlimited subs like D1 men are going to. This simple change will force colleges to produce a better overall product.
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Post by crazzzy4soccer on Aug 4, 2024 16:25:47 GMT -5
@lajolla Congratulations, kind of interesting that your club liason isn't able to position your kid with college coaches but attending a college camp ended up with a full ride offer. Whatever works, but I'd be a little pissed at my kids youth club.
When did I mention club liason or attending a camp? My whole post was around an official visit? 🤔
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Post by lajolla39 on Aug 4, 2024 18:58:52 GMT -5
@lajolla Congratulations, kind of interesting that your club liason isn't able to position your kid with college coaches but attending a college camp ended up with a full ride offer. Whatever works, but I'd be a little pissed at my kids youth club. When did I mention club liason or attending a camp? My whole post was around an official visit? Ahh, my mistake I assumed you paid for the camp out of pocket. Ccongratulations either way.
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Post by soccerlegacy on Aug 4, 2024 22:36:26 GMT -5
If anything should be a meritocracy, it should be sports. I kind of lean against affirmative action for American students in collegiate sports. I hear what you are saying, but this isn't the professional level. This is for student-athletes. I'm for meritocracy as well, but I think of this like in-state vs out-of-state attendance and cost. If I recall, the Georgia state government was trying to pass a law that they had to have a certain percentage of it's students come from within the state. The idea was that local students would tend to stay local upon graduation and if the state is investing in students, they should try to keep the talent that graduates here at home. No sense investing in too many out-of-state students and international students that graduate and then move back to wince they came, leaving the state little reward for the investment. Second, There is plenty of talent here in the USA, especially on the girls side, that I don't think it warrants massive rosters of internationals to make up a talent gap or anything. There is plenty of merit right in the USA.
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Post by soccerlegacy on Aug 21, 2024 19:43:36 GMT -5
Unfortunately, the colleges are starting to make tough decisions and withdrawing scholarship offers that will affect new recruits and in my opinion, worse.... already committed players like these. imyouthsoccerThis sucks!
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Post by Soccerhouse on Aug 22, 2024 8:10:15 GMT -5
It is going to be very difficult for this senior class of boys to get/land a spot at a d1 school this fall. the hierarchy goes like this for mens soccer in college 1) international player (i've heard that some of their countries will pay for their education) 2) transfer portal -- why take a 18 year old when you can pick up a 22 year old junior or a transferring sophomore who has played 3) domestic player from an mls academy 4) domestic player from somewhere else
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Post by atlcoach84 on Aug 22, 2024 10:53:12 GMT -5
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Post by Soccerhouse on Aug 22, 2024 11:21:55 GMT -5
seems the better move would have been increase the scholarship numbers like they did, but remove any roster size limitations. or mandate every rostered player has to have a scholarship..... (this never would fly, but seems that was the intent to ensure all athletes are "compensated")
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Post by lajolla39 on Aug 22, 2024 11:31:54 GMT -5
seems the better move would have been increase the scholarship numbers like they did, but remove any roster size limitations. or mandate every rostered player has to have a scholarship..... (this never would fly, but seems that was the intent to ensure all athletes are "compensated") NCAA needs a defined roster size to distribute the $$$ college sports generates to players. If you don't have defined roster sizes you can't determine the most NCAA will need to distribute to players. Ttechnically if a team has less than 28 each player should receive more $$$ than a team of 28 would. But we all know that won't happen.
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Post by atlantasoccerdad2020 on Aug 22, 2024 20:44:51 GMT -5
seems the better move would have been increase the scholarship numbers like they did, but remove any roster size limitations. or mandate every rostered player has to have a scholarship..... (this never would fly, but seems that was the intent to ensure all athletes are "compensated") NCAA needs a defined roster size to distribute the $$$ college sports generates to players. If you don't have defined roster sizes you can't determine the most NCAA will need to distribute to players. Ttechnically if a team has less than 28 each player should receive more $$$ than a team of 28 would. But we all know that won't happen. Biggest issue is football. Sure it generates revenue but no need for roster size that big or 105 scholarships.
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Post by Soccerhouse on Aug 23, 2024 8:21:33 GMT -5
will be interesting given most athletic departments money already lose money, now thrown in more scholarships. funny thing is all these schools have huge endowments just collecting $$$ and not helping lowering the cost of attendance.
That's the real issue here -- cost of attendance is getting out of hand
oh and back to football and title 9, football always screwed up the equality equation when their wasn't an equivalent womens sport with that many scholarships. however, if your a top 25 school, football pays the bills for the entire athletic program.
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Post by atlnoleg on Aug 23, 2024 11:13:04 GMT -5
NCAA needs a defined roster size to distribute the $$$ college sports generates to players. If you don't have defined roster sizes you can't determine the most NCAA will need to distribute to players. Technically if a team has less than 28 each player should receive more $$$ than a team of 28 would. But we all know that won't happen. Biggest issue is football. Sure it generates revenue but no need for roster size that big or 105 scholarships. Football has 85 scholarships. It doesn't just generate revenue, it generates 80% of it, basketball the other 20%. Those two sports fund all the other sports, which cost more than they bring in.
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Post by soccerlegacy on Aug 23, 2024 13:41:44 GMT -5
Biggest issue is football. Sure it generates revenue but no need for roster size that big or 105 scholarships. Football has 85 scholarships. It doesn't just generate revenue, it generates 80% of it, basketball the other 20%. Those two sports fund all the other sports, which cost more than they bring in. This has recently changed since the new NCAA rulings, they will be going to 105 next year. "As of August 9, 2024, the NCAA is expected to increase the number of football scholarships that Division 1 teams can offer from 85 to 105 players per team, starting in the 2025-2026 academic year. This is part of a new NCAA settlement that will also classify all sports as equivalency sports, allowing schools to offer partial scholarships instead of just full scholarships."That is an absolutely, outrageously, unnecessary amount of football scholarships that will all be "full ride" ones. If the NFL can field a team with 53 man roster limits, why does a college need to have over double the amount? I truly love and appreciate that football generates the revenue that supports all the other non-revenue sports on a campus... but that bloated size isn't needed and could help other programs.
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Post by Soccerhouse on Aug 23, 2024 14:39:08 GMT -5
i'm still confused on how this effects school in non power 4 conferences that don't make money and their is no revenue sharing.
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Post by soccerlegacy on Aug 23, 2024 15:37:26 GMT -5
i'm still confused on how this effects school in non power 4 conferences that don't make money and their is no revenue sharing. While it may not directly effect them, I do think there will be a trickle down effect. Shrinking soccer rosters forces players to non power 4 colleges, mid-major and DII schools will also have smaller rosters and I have read that some of the G5 will most likely do some form of the revenue-sharing as well. All I can say is that it will have a major impact on the 2025 recruits and beyond.
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