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Post by RedDevil10 on Jun 3, 2015 13:01:21 GMT -5
Which do coaches prefer at tryouts ? I realize both would be great but please choose one
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Post by jash on Jun 3, 2015 13:24:59 GMT -5
At tryouts, I think effort with lesser skills shows better. It won't always translate to an effective player in games, but it shows better at tryouts.
Though there are no better solutions I can offer, tryouts often mistake bad for good and good for bad. It's just the nature of the beast, I guess.
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Post by jack4343 on Jun 3, 2015 13:38:34 GMT -5
I agree with Jash based on my past experiences. A child that hustles out there but had lesser skill almost always trumps skill without hustle. If you play with both, you usually make the top team. My guess is that a coach figures he can teach skill but it's hard to make someone hustle.
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Post by soccerfan30 on Jun 3, 2015 13:51:35 GMT -5
Let me ask this- The USMNT has always been known for their work rate, fitness, energy and fighting spirit....remind me again how many World Cups we've won?
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Post by reinalocura on Jun 3, 2015 13:57:54 GMT -5
My kid lives this. Smart / technical. Few mistakes, seldom loses the ball. Receives and passes with both feet. Completely not flashy and very consistent. Not 'all over the place' - always in the place he's supposed to be and able to read plays. Hustles when necessary. I feel he is doomed against the mentality you are discussing.
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Post by jack4343 on Jun 3, 2015 14:26:33 GMT -5
Let me ask this- The USMNT has always been known for their work rate, fitness, energy and fighting spirit....remind me again how many World Cups we've won? Coaches like you are the reason why so many kids flock to your club. Can you clone yourself and come to our club? Lol
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Post by zizou on Jun 3, 2015 17:07:16 GMT -5
Let me ask this- The USMNT has always been known for their work rate, fitness, energy and fighting spirit....remind me again how many World Cups we've won? But the women are known for the same things. Pia would always talk about the "American fighting spirit". Almost the first thing out of her mouth every time someone would ask her to describe her team. They have 2 World Cups (but not one since 1999) with one runner-up (last one) and 4 Olympic Golds (and were runner-up the other time). I am not disagreeing with you, but on women's side using athletes with a few real soccer players thrown in has served them reasonably well unfortunately. Of course, that athletes ship has probably sailed, as everyone keeps telling US Soccer. They just can't seem to break with the past. Honestly I also think substitution rules in elite club and college soccer contribute to the athletes vs skilled soccer players conundrum. Coaches can just keep running physical specimens out there who are 15 minute destroyers. They don't need to be skilled soccer players. They just need to make sure the other team cannot play. See Florida State women last year. I hope it changes. It is really fun watching someone like Gedion Zelalem play in the U20 World Cup.
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Post by stevieg on Jun 3, 2015 19:07:55 GMT -5
In my opinion, those that are "hustling" are often doing so because they are out of position to begin with.
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Post by sweeper on Jun 3, 2015 21:16:04 GMT -5
Well, you can coach skills but hustle is something that the player has to bring. That being said I believe most of these responses are talking more about athleticism than hustle and I totally agree with that assessment. I believe players like Per Mertzesacker and Thomas Mueller would not have made it in the US
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Post by spectator on Jun 3, 2015 23:04:56 GMT -5
My kid lives this. Smart / technical. Few mistakes, seldom loses the ball. Receives and passes with both feet. Completely not flashy and very consistent. Not 'all over the place' - always in the place he's supposed to be and able to read plays. Hustles when necessary. I feel he is doomed against the mentality you are discussing. Same here - and then add in size - she's not amazonian tall or flashy. And for the longest time was overlooked for the flashy player at tryouts - you've seen them - lighting fast with the god awful touch; hustling to the point of being frantic - never getting the ball but looking really impressive while not doing it. IMO, coaches who are snowed by this are the ones that won't ever take a team to another level or who won't stay with a team long enough to ever see the mistakes they made when rostering the frantic over the skilled. My kid's best coach took small players with amazing skills. Not surprisingly, that was the most successful team she ever played with. Sadly, that coach moved on and the replacement was a 'bigger is better/hustle over skill' kind of coach.
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Post by soccerfan30 on Jun 4, 2015 9:47:56 GMT -5
Let me ask this- The USMNT has always been known for their work rate, fitness, energy and fighting spirit....remind me again how many World Cups we've won? But the women are known for the same things. Pia would always talk about the "American fighting spirit". Almost the first thing out of her mouth every time someone would ask her to describe her team. They have 2 World Cups (but not one since 1999) with one runner-up (last one) and 4 Olympic Golds (and were runner-up the other time). I am not disagreeing with you, but on women's side using athletes with a few real soccer players thrown in has served them reasonably well unfortunately. Of course, that athletes ship has probably sailed, as everyone keeps telling US Soccer. They just can't seem to break with the past. Honestly I also think substitution rules in elite club and college soccer contribute to the athletes vs skilled soccer players conundrum. Coaches can just keep running physical specimens out there who are 15 minute destroyers. They don't need to be skilled soccer players. They just need to make sure the other team cannot play. See Florida State women last year. I hope it changes. It is really fun watching someone like Gedion Zelalem play in the U20 World Cup. A few things to consider: The USWNT program had a 15-20 year head start on most of the world, around the early 2000's soccer federations in other countries started allocating more funding to their women's national teams. The number of top level women's national teams is very small, realistically there are only five or so teams that can compete for a World Cup/Olympic Gold Medal. I'm not sure if other countries have closed the gap on us or we've remained stagnant, honestly I think it's a little bit of both. Look at Japan, most would say they are the best technically overall, not overpowering physically but are technically good and tactically sound. Brazil is very good, their main issue is discpline, they hurt themselves with all the fouling and antics, they cetainly have the ability to contend for a title. Germany is always good, Sweden with Pia at the helm my surprise some people this summer. Think about this: outside of Germany I would guess no country invests more into fitness, exercise science, top medical staff, recovery and the lastest training techniques than the US, so athletically the USWNT should be the best, but again that's not enough, technique is what separates the best from the rest. The USWNT needs a strong personality as the coach, someone that can bring in new ideas and implement a different style of play and US Soccer needs to support them. The vets on the USWNT have too much input as to who the coach should be, obviously they are protecting their own interests. I posted here a while back that Tom Sermanni was let go because some veterans didn't mesh with his style of play, he certainly didn't have worse results than the other coaches. The vets lobbied to have Ellis installed as the coach because she was a "player's coach"... read into that what you will. While she's given new players an opportunity, it's pretty much the same style of play. So getting to the original point- you need something more than "hustle", at a certain level everyone works hard for the most part, but do they have the SKILLS to separate them from the rest?
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Post by sidelinemama on Jun 4, 2015 10:18:38 GMT -5
So true, soccerfan30! We have European aunts/uncles and cousins on both sides of the family and when we go over there, they CANNOT BELIEVE that my girls play soccer. They make fun of their boy cousins every time one of my girls makes a move on them or God forbid scores a goal (in the back yard)! It is quite the scene. They all ask us why we let our girls play soccer. We should be encouraging them to play basketball, volleyball or tennis, or to perhaps run track. It's a totally different mind set.
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Post by greenmonkey on Jun 4, 2015 10:31:40 GMT -5
Zeal without knowledge is fire without light ... Thomas Fuller
or as my college coach said
Enthusiasm without knowledge is like running around in the dark.
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