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Post by Soccerhouse on Jul 29, 2015 7:59:37 GMT -5
Interesting, I know someone else had mentioned the calendar year age group mandate. I haven't heard anything else from it, other than what was mentioned here. USSF Establishes Player Development Initiatives Small-Sided Format and Calendar Year Age Groups Mandated for 2017 On July 5, 2015 the USSF Board of Directors approved the “Player Development Initiatives” developed and proposed by the National Coaching Staff. These initiatives mandate a small-sided games format for Under 12 and younger age groups along with a move to calendar-year registration for all age groups. The initiatives contain a graduated implementation schedule which include adoption as a Best Practice beginning in August, 2016 followed by mandatory implementation in August of 2017. National affiliates, such as US Youth Soccer (USYS) are free to adopt these initiatives earlier into their programing if they choose to do so. www.calsouth.com/data/Root/CSGEmailBlasts/PlayerDevelopmentInitiatives-Approved07052015.pdf?utm_source=website+list&udm_medium=email&utm_term=email-link&utm_content=html&utm_campaign=USSF+Player+Development+Initiatives
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Post by Deleted on Jul 29, 2015 9:36:27 GMT -5
Very very interesting. This will be really interesting to see how its implemented.
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Post by greenmonkey on Jul 29, 2015 11:41:56 GMT -5
So do I understand this to read that they are actually adding another player to the current U9-U10 6v6 players to make it 7 total?
I do like the "barrier line" idea to promote non pressure play from the back ... Tough on the refs tho who are already trying to introduce enforcing offsides
I know the calendar year versus school year versus ODP year vs soccer club year is a discussion many have opinions on ...
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Post by soccerdad44 on Jul 29, 2015 13:01:15 GMT -5
Let's hope increasing the numbers per side (3v3 now 4v4, 6v6 now 7v7, and 8v8 now 9v9) is really about development and not a business decision to try to increase revenue generated per square foot of soccer field at the lower ages.
The move to a calendar year seems like another way to further drive a wedge between schools and soccer clubs :-(
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Post by Keeper on Jul 29, 2015 13:29:11 GMT -5
Looks just like what Jacob Daniels told us this past weekend. U.S. Soccer has never put mandates out to their affliates but have finally wised up and are going to enforce these changes.
I love the 7v7/9v9 changes because most states have been that way for years and it does help a lot when you are trying to build a 4/3/3 and play out the back possession game.
That change from school year back to calendar year is definitely going to cause a TON of whining from certain clubs and parents since Lil Johnny is gonna have to switch teams. But it'll definitely be best going forward for the U.S. Soccer.
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Post by jash on Jul 29, 2015 13:37:27 GMT -5
I wonder for the calendar year change, is it going to be a 'cold turkey' switch, or will they start the calendar year with the youngest group and let it bubble up from there.
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Post by SoccerMom on Jul 29, 2015 13:40:19 GMT -5
I wonder for the calendar year change, is it going to be a 'cold turkey' switch, or will they start the calendar year with the youngest group and let it bubble up from there. I think everyone would have to switch...otherwise it would create a mess for the clubs and trying to figure out who is supposed to play where.
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Post by Keeper on Jul 29, 2015 13:42:47 GMT -5
I wonder for the calendar year change, is it going to be a 'cold turkey' switch, or will they start the calendar year with the youngest group and let it bubble up from there. My understanding was "cold turkey" and all at once. Hopefully it'll be in place by next year but probably not for two years though.
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Post by Soccerhouse on Jul 29, 2015 14:34:45 GMT -5
Will be a mess! Would be best to start with younger age groups and bubble up vs cold turkey!
I have mixed feelings to be honest. For the most part all the kids are typically in the same grade which makes the non-soccer part all be consistent with academic expectations etc.
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Post by diceshooter on Jul 29, 2015 15:31:44 GMT -5
I don't see the big deal about school age. Kids are held back or promoted in school by parents, etc., so school years have all kinds of ages. Kids are graduating high school as young as 16 and as old as 20.
My kid's current "U14 team" has a kid born in 2001 starting ninth grade and another, born in the same month, starting seventh grade.
Also, the difficulty in transition should not be an issue if the end result is worthwhile.
Please know that I am open to being enlightened if I am missing something.
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Post by fan on Jul 29, 2015 16:03:11 GMT -5
I wonder if we'll see more kids "playing up" than usual at least in the short term so that teams can stay together (e.g., 2001s playing on a 2000 team). My daughter's team is really close knit. It would be tough to see it split in half.
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Post by soccerdad44 on Jul 29, 2015 17:00:51 GMT -5
There is often a big difference between elementary, middle school, and high school school start and end times. Having a 5th grader practicing times selected for middle schoolers or a middle schooler practicing times selected for high schoolers may be unreasonable. For example, is a 5th grader in Forsyth who has to catch the bus at 6:45 to get to elementary school that starts at 7:40 am going to do at a U12 practice that ends at 8:30? Likely sleep is 10pm - 6am, barely 8 hours. That is not enough for that age. But you cannot have practice any earlier because middle school gets out at 4:15.
There is no U15 spring Athena and Classic soccer, because it's assumed those kids are playing high school, right? So what does the 8th grader born Sept-Dec do? I don't believe 8th graders, no matter who you are, are allowed to play high school soccer.
These are not corner cases, these are kids born Sept-Dec, which I would guess is 4/12 (33%) of each grade.
I'm willing to be enlightened as well, but wow, this seems a big change.
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Post by soccerdad44 on Jul 29, 2015 17:07:22 GMT -5
I wonder if we'll see more kids "playing up" than usual at least in the short term so that teams can stay together (e.g., 2001s playing on a 2000 team). My daughter's team is really close knit. It would be tough to see it split in half. Yeah, whether clubs implement this or not by next year, kids will have to "play up" just to catch up with their age group. I would guess on average 42% (5/12) of every team is born Aug-Dec and will need to move up an age group next tryouts.
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Post by th1976 on Jul 29, 2015 17:10:13 GMT -5
Can't really see them splitting teams up but I can see them having kids play up until it all evens out.
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Post by kellymama on Jul 29, 2015 18:25:24 GMT -5
My kid has a late December birthday, so going from being in the middle to being the youngest. Interesting. Last year at U13 we only had 2 out of 15 players with 02 bdays, this year its only 3. So which way would these players go, so if they did this this year a player born in 12/01, would they be U14, U15? Or does all that go away its just 01, 02, etc.. Just curious? It seems like more Elite level players are older (at least at the younger age when size can be a factor in some coaches selections).
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Post by rifle on Jul 29, 2015 19:18:39 GMT -5
There have always been a few who are a year up or back (school year).
The "year back" ones get hung out to dry in the spring when most of their team gets to 9th grade at U15..
Ultimately, it really won't be that bad after the initial shockwave.
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Post by Strikermom on Jul 29, 2015 19:36:48 GMT -5
I think it may be based on other states and when they play soccer in high school. I believe Northeast plays in the fall in high school, so might not affect as many kids.
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Post by jash on Jul 29, 2015 20:57:30 GMT -5
Yeah, I can see either argument for school vs calendar year, that's not my issue. My issue is the teams that have been playing together for 7 or 8 years getting ripped apart by a rule change that really won't help them at all at this point in their soccer careers.
Oh well, progress is hard, but bubbling makes a lot more sense to me.
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Post by Keeper on Jul 29, 2015 22:17:49 GMT -5
There is no U15 spring Athena and Classic soccer, because it's assumed those kids are playing high school, right? So what does the 8th grader born Sept-Dec do? I don't believe 8th graders, no matter who you are, are allowed to play high school soccer. Most counties out of the metro allow 8th graders to play JV as well as most private schools. It's actually very common.
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Post by Keeper on Jul 29, 2015 22:22:16 GMT -5
My kid has a late December birthday, so going from being in the middle to being the youngest. Interesting. Last year at U13 we only had 2 out of 15 players with 02 bdays, this year its only 3. So which way would these players go, so if they did this this year a player born in 12/01, would they be U14, U15? Or does all that go away its just 01, 02, etc.. Just curious? It seems like more Elite level players are older (at least at the younger age when size can be a factor in some coaches selections). To my understanding the Under-__ will go away and it'll be the actual year the play is born. That's at least how it was done in the 70s when they first did it. And yeah typically all those players born in September/October have been better so it'll be interesting to see all these dads try to convince the moms to hold out birth til January. Haha at least that's how the hockey families I know are.
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Post by soccerdad44 on Jul 30, 2015 6:19:31 GMT -5
I think it may be based on other states and when they play soccer in high school. I believe Northeast plays in the fall in high school, so might not affect as many kids. Yeah, if soccer were a fall sport in Georgia, it would make a lot more sense. With it being a spring sport, it looks like the kids born Sept-Dec will not be able to play club soccer after their junior year, so there will be a long gap of no soccer between their junior year and when they can play high school soccer their senior year. So Sept-Dec birthdays get screwed twice. In 8th grade (no athena/select in the spring because it's assumed kids are playing high school) and senior year (no club soccer because you're too old). Maybe not a bad thing. The kids can concentrate on high school work and activities. What about the phenoms born Sept-Dec who are playing DA? What will they do after their DA eligibility ends and they still have a year of high school left? This is going to have a huge affect on Georgia soccer.
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Post by Keeper on Jul 30, 2015 6:46:40 GMT -5
I think it may be based on other states and when they play soccer in high school. I believe Northeast plays in the fall in high school, so might not affect as many kids. Yeah, if soccer were a fall sport in Georgia, it would make a lot more sense. With it being a spring sport, it looks like the kids born Sept-Dec will not be able to play club soccer after their junior year, so there will be a long gap of no soccer between their junior year and when they can play high school soccer their senior year. So Sept-Dec birthdays get screwed twice. In 8th grade (no athena/select in the spring because it's assumed kids are playing high school) and senior year (no club soccer because you're too old). Maybe not a bad thing. The kids can concentrate on high school work and activities. What about the phenoms born Sept-Dec who are playing DA? What will they do after their DA eligibility ends and they still have a year of high school left? This is going to have a huge affect on Georgia soccer. Yeah if we could just got rid of HS football down here we could be like the rest of the country and have fall soccer. Sadly that's not going to happen. I believe the whole reason the U19 group was made was for seniors. Since it covers two full years for those Seniors with Sept-Dec, as well as anyone that might have started school later or was held back.
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Post by soccerdad44 on Jul 30, 2015 8:00:40 GMT -5
I believe the whole reason the U19 group was made was for seniors. Since it covers two full years for those Seniors with Sept-Dec, as well as anyone that might have started school later or was held back. Ok, so probably there will be the ability to play club. But from what I see, there are currently no options for Sept-Dec birthday kids in DA or ODP. What do Sept-Dec DA kids do today after they have maxed out their age and still have a year of high school left? They go back to playing club + high school?
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Post by rifle on Jul 30, 2015 11:55:31 GMT -5
While SEC people may try to deny it... I'm quite sure there is HS pointyball in other states.
The ONLY downside used to be throwball teams tearing up the grass (if the same field was used). Now everything's fake grass, so the downside is gone.
Pointy ball on Friday night. Soccer and LAX any other day. Works fine.
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Post by youthsoccerdad on Jul 30, 2015 13:14:31 GMT -5
Having U8 and U6 play on the same size field seems off.
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Post by soccerworld on Jul 31, 2015 7:40:05 GMT -5
Found this note to highlight:
Please note the implementation schedule:
Adopted as a Best Practice – August 2016 for 2016/2017 Soccer Year
This approach will provide sufficient time for implementation. The approved timetable allows the 2015/2016 soccer year for communication, explanation, and planning and then initial implementation on September 1, 2016 for the 2016/2017 soccer year.
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Post by jash on Jul 31, 2015 11:08:53 GMT -5
What will be interesting is how strongly this will be mandated.
Will the big Atlanta clubs just ignore it and continue to play 11v11 at U11? They've sold it really hard now, so can they back down? Can they afford to drop the player/coach ratio, from a financial standpoint, which smaller teams will do to them?
And most intriguing, will GA Soccer continue to unofficially sanction their behavior by offering 11v11 at age groups younger than U13 in their own tournaments?
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Post by Soccerhouse on Jul 31, 2015 11:17:21 GMT -5
What will be interesting is how strongly this will be mandated. Will the big Atlanta clubs just ignore it and continue to play 11v11 at U11? They've sold it really hard now, so can they back down? Can they afford to drop the player/coach ratio, from a financial standpoint, which smaller teams will do to them? And most intriguing, will GA Soccer continue to unofficially sanction their behavior by offering 11v11 at age groups younger than U13 in their own tournaments? ding ding ding!! great post. Exactly, will they stop allowing u12s to play classic 11v11 etc. If not whats the point. Yes playing up is encouraged for certain kids, especially in DA and even ECNL. (I've been stunned at a minimum the DA clubs haven't already been forced to do certain things up until now anyway...)
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Post by guest on Jul 31, 2015 11:54:06 GMT -5
I noticed that playing time for U8 is three 15 min 'periods'. What, are we hockey now?!?
Also, I am sorry but to rip a team in half that has been playing together for years in not player-focused at all. I imagine that there are teams/clubs out there where club-hopping is the norm. This change would not impact them that much because no one knows each others names anyway. But ours is not one of those teams/clubs. Most teams are similar from U9 all the way up. Better to do some sort of rolling implementation that starts with new teams at Fall of U13 when the idea of true 'teams' is being fixed for the first time. Some kids would move up to U13 and some would stay at U12.
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Post by jash on Jul 31, 2015 12:14:09 GMT -5
Also, I am sorry but to rip a team in half that has been playing together for years in not player-focused at all. I imagine that there are teams/clubs out there where club-hopping is the norm. This change would not impact them that much because no one knows each others names anyway. But ours is not one of those teams/clubs. Most teams are similar from U9 all the way up. Better to do some sort of rolling implementation that starts with new teams at Fall of U13 when the idea of true 'teams' is being fixed for the first time. Some kids would move up to U13 and some would stay at U12. Yes, the U15 and up teams will gain no benefit from this change, and simply break friends apart from each other. Not smart.
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