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Post by rifle on Dec 16, 2015 21:14:46 GMT -5
Let's talk about it.
Go
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Post by jash on Dec 16, 2015 21:31:29 GMT -5
Uh, where is the 'it depends' option? :-)
It depends on age. But if they're young enough, we'll just have to call it 'non-competitive'
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Post by rifle on Dec 16, 2015 22:24:05 GMT -5
Rec soccer is competitive. Pickup soccer is competitive. Juggling. Crossbar challenge. Even "instructional" age soccer is for identifying talent.
I agree that the score in a U9 game isn't life changing, but I think planting seeds of "it doesn't matter" is counter productive toward making better soccer players.
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Post by zizou on Dec 16, 2015 23:23:57 GMT -5
Rec soccer is competitive. Pickup soccer is competitive. Juggling. Crossbar challenge. Even "instructional" age soccer is for identifying talent. I agree that the score in a U9 game isn't life changing, but I think planting seeds of "it doesn't matter" is counter productive toward making better soccer players. Agreeance. Or better at anything for that matter.
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Post by jash on Dec 16, 2015 23:40:59 GMT -5
Rec soccer is competitive. Pickup soccer is competitive. Juggling. Crossbar challenge. Even "instructional" age soccer is for identifying talent. I agree that the score in a U9 game isn't life changing, but I think planting seeds of "it doesn't matter" is counter productive toward making better soccer players. Agree almost completely... but U7 or U8 players losing 10-1 because of badly composed rec teams is bad enough to live through, let alone having to see it written down. They know who won, and THAT matters, but the actual score -- not as much.
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Post by spectator on Dec 17, 2015 10:19:20 GMT -5
Rec soccer is competitive. Pickup soccer is competitive. Juggling. Crossbar challenge. Even "instructional" age soccer is for identifying talent. I agree that the score in a U9 game isn't life changing, but I think planting seeds of "it doesn't matter" is counter productive toward making better soccer players. Agree almost completely... but U7 or U8 players losing 10-1 because of badly composed rec teams is bad enough to live through, let alone having to see it written down. They know who won, and THAT matters, but the actual score -- not as much. Adults can take away scores, goalies, whatever they think will 'protect' the kids from heartache but trust me, any kid out on a field playing any team sport knows the score whether it's rec, pick up, playground or recess. Kids aren't stupid and they are competitive. But I also agree that a U7-U8 team that gets beat or beats another team by double digits isn't a good thing for anyone on the field or sidelines and coaches do need to be mindful of the age and maturity level of the kids they coach. Let the younger ones experience the game - with the competitiveness of the game so don't over sanitize it but for the love of all things, if you are a coach of a team that is beating another by that much, change it up, go down a man, don't crush a team of six year olds - because trust me, that feeds the parental craziness on the sidelines and we all know that that can morph into later on. Way back in the day of rec soccer, a parent coach we had 'got' that. He loved the game - was a former player himself but also understood he was dealing with six year olds and once when the team was beating another one quite handily, he went to the other team's coach and asked if he wanted to mix the teams and just play the rest of the game with more evenly matched teams. The other coach agreed and it was a very nice day on the field. Parents just wanted their kids to have fun, the kids did, the coaches were chatting with each other and started instructing the kids so they were not only learning the game but having fun. To this day it remains one of the most pleasant experiences I've ever had in youth sports - because the focus was on the kids not the score or winning. At some ages that IS more important than the score so that's my asterisk in front of my answer to the poll.
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Post by Soccerhouse on Dec 17, 2015 10:37:45 GMT -5
I have had kids on both sides of the 20-0 results! It happens and you move on from it and the kids learn from it both ways. spectator I'm with ya, my favorite soccer days were 3v3 at u6. Such a joy watching kids just having fun. It was just pure excitement and kids running around like crazy but love the raw emotions. But that is sport, the raw emotion, being down 2 or 3 goals, 3 touchdowns, 10 points in hoops, 6 runs in baseball in the bottom of the 9th and digging deep and pulling out some magical win. Kids remember those forever and then also the big loses forever, and most will tell you the loses are what stick with folks more than the wins. Sport brings out the worst and the best of people, but its a beauty to watch when watching the best of the best compete! take even non-sports --- chess, debate team, singing etc, they want to win! you don't sit down to play chess/checkers or dungeons and dragons or monopoly to lose! The best at any level of leadership in any setting love competition. I will say I get sick of this comment though when you are on the losing end of 5-0 game, "but we were the better team....."
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Post by rifle on Dec 17, 2015 12:51:52 GMT -5
Sometimes the better team loses, that's sports (and life).
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Post by justaparent on Dec 17, 2015 13:23:20 GMT -5
Can the answer to the question be a 2-part answer?
Part 1 - The score always matters to the kids. They are on the field to compete against another squad and they want to win. All kids hate getting blown out, and if you watch them organize their own pick up games you will mostly see them focus on fairness of teams. They'll even switch up teams if one team is having it too easy. Parents and coaches get in the way of this type of fairness and lead us towards lopsided rec games.
Part 2 - At younger ages and in environments where development is supposed to be the most important factor, it should matter less to the adults involved. Parents and coaches both are guilty of caring about the scores of youth soccer way too much. Let your kids care about the score, but don't get involved by trying to insert your influence on the score.
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Post by touchlinedad on Dec 29, 2015 14:03:45 GMT -5
Can the answer to the question be a 2-part answer? Part 1 - The score always matters to the kids. They are on the field to compete against another squad and they want to win. All kids hate getting blown out, and if you watch them organize their own pick up games you will mostly see them focus on fairness of teams. They'll even switch up teams if one team is having it too easy. Parents and coaches get in the way of this type of fairness and lead us towards lopsided rec games. Part 2 - At younger ages and in environments where development is supposed to be the most important factor, it should matter less to the adults involved. Parents and coaches both are guilty of caring about the scores of youth soccer way too much. Let your kids care about the score, but don't get involved by trying to insert your influence on the score. I meant to comment on this when it was first posted and never did. Justaparent has it exactly right. The score always matters to the boys and girls. Always. But at the Academy ages, parents and coaches put FAR too much emphasis on winning. What coaches need to do is spell out at the start of the season what the goal for the team is. If the goal is to improve passing, then stringing together nine passes in a game should be considered an achievement. And if the parents reinforce what the coach is working toward, that will take the focus off winning and more toward developing the players and the team. Maintaining possession, improving passing, playing out of the back and improved movement off the ball should matter more at U9-U12 than winning. Because if a team works hard on those things, the wins will come. If coaches AND parents focused more on those essentials, it would work its way down to the boys and girls. But if the emphasis is always on winning, then it will just lead to boom ball to the fast kid up top. I'd also like to see more emphasis at the Academy age put on defending because the teams that can defend are the teams that go on to win games and trophies.
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Post by newposter on Dec 29, 2015 15:41:43 GMT -5
I've heard to focus on development rather than on wins. I would put forth that the two go hand in hand. Teams that lose continuously are not likely developing. Conversely teams that continue to win are likely progressing faster. Logic tells us that. Not focusing on winning is in the same vein as a participation trophy and sends the wrong message that not winning is acceptable. Losing should be a motivator to get better just as winning drives more winning. It's a mindset.
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Post by rifle on Dec 29, 2015 18:16:48 GMT -5
Can the answer to the question be a 2-part answer? Part 1 - The score always matters to the kids. They are on the field to compete against another squad and they want to win. All kids hate getting blown out, and if you watch them organize their own pick up games you will mostly see them focus on fairness of teams. They'll even switch up teams if one team is having it too easy. Parents and coaches get in the way of this type of fairness and lead us towards lopsided rec games. Part 2 - At younger ages and in environments where development is supposed to be the most important factor, it should matter less to the adults involved. Parents and coaches both are guilty of caring about the scores of youth soccer way too much. Let your kids care about the score, but don't get involved by trying to insert your influence on the score. I meant to comment on this when it was first posted and never did. Justaparent has it exactly right. The score always matters to the boys and girls. Always. But at the Academy ages, parents and coaches put FAR too much emphasis on winning. What coaches need to do is spell out at the start of the season what the goal for the team is. If the goal is to improve passing, then stringing together nine passes in a game should be considered an achievement. And if the parents reinforce what the coach is working toward, that will take the focus off winning and more toward developing the players and the team. Maintaining possession, improving passing, playing out of the back and improved movement off the ball should matter more at U9-U12 than winning. Because if a team works hard on those things, the wins will come. If coaches AND parents focused more on those essentials, it would work its way down to the boys and girls. But if the emphasis is always on winning, then it will just lead to boom ball to the fast kid up top. I'd also like to see more emphasis at the Academy age put on defending because the teams that can defend are the teams that go on to win games and trophies. This is clearly tangential, but.. Totally agree with the need for a (club) to identify age specific training objectives. Don't just run them out there and play. Having a curriculum and actually implementing it is important. I also want to see B and C teams executing patterns of play. Too often, low to mid level "select" soccer looks just like rec soccer. That tells me the club has nothing to give them, and only wants their money.
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Post by Southside Soccer on Dec 29, 2015 22:11:27 GMT -5
every kid regardless of age quickly learns the score of any game. The score always matters to all young youth players, even when the score is not supposed to matter. This is good as it fosters a winning attitude among youth at the earliest years, although not pc correct.
Moving on to older teenage years players will experience games where they either get blown out by a much stronger team or do the same to a weaker team.
Life teaches both situations that soccer players will either be on the stronger team or perhaps the weaker team. In both situations the player learns how to either be more successful or not so in either result.
Learning how to respond on not being on the more successful team provides more life skills beyond the soccer life that helps the soccer player more so in later life.
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Post by youthsoccerdad on Dec 30, 2015 10:50:11 GMT -5
Agree almost completely... but U7 or U8 players losing 10-1 because of badly composed rec teams is bad enough to live through, let alone having to see it written down. They know who won, and THAT matters, but the actual score -- not as much. Adults can take away scores, goalies, whatever they think will 'protect' the kids from heartache but trust me, any kid out on a field playing any team sport knows the score whether it's rec, pick up, playground or recess. Kids aren't stupid and they are competitive. But I also agree that a U7-U8 team that gets beat or beats another team by double digits isn't a good thing for anyone on the field or sidelines and coaches do need to be mindful of the age and maturity level of the kids they coach. Let the younger ones experience the game - with the competitiveness of the game so don't over sanitize it but for the love of all things, if you are a coach of a team that is beating another by that much, change it up, go down a man, don't crush a team of six year olds - because trust me, that feeds the parental craziness on the sidelines and we all know that that can morph into later on. Way back in the day of rec soccer, a parent coach we had 'got' that. He loved the game - was a former player himself but also understood he was dealing with six year olds and once when the team was beating another one quite handily, he went to the other team's coach and asked if he wanted to mix the teams and just play the rest of the game with more evenly matched teams. The other coach agreed and it was a very nice day on the field. Parents just wanted their kids to have fun, the kids did, the coaches were chatting with each other and started instructing the kids so they were not only learning the game but having fun. To this day it remains one of the most pleasant experiences I've ever had in youth sports - because the focus was on the kids not the score or winning. At some ages that IS more important than the score so that's my asterisk in front of my answer to the poll. I am being a bit nit picky but - never play a man down, let the other team play a man or two up. It is unfair for kids on the winning team to not get to play because of the score. One last thing, parents worry way to much about the score. All my kids have had their team crushed when they were little, and by the time juice boxes and snacks were handed out they didn't care about the game. It is the parents that dwell on the score, projecting their own insecurities or over inflated egos into their kids losing a game or worrying if Timmy had his feelings hurt. That said, fair games are always better and more fun for everyone.
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Post by RedDevil10 on Dec 30, 2015 13:41:08 GMT -5
I've heard to focus on development rather than on wins. I would put forth that the two go hand in hand. Teams that lose continuously are not likely developing. Conversely teams that continue to win are likely progressing faster. Logic tells us that. Not focusing on winning is in the same vein as a participation trophy and sends the wrong message that not winning is acceptable. Losing should be a motivator to get better just as winning drives more winning. It's a mindset. Agree 100%
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