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Post by SoccerMom on Dec 30, 2015 0:04:32 GMT -5
Sources: U.S. Soccer set to launch girls’ Development Academy in 2017, likely relegating ECNL to second tier It was first raised as a possibility by president Sunil Gulati & Co. nearly a year ago, it’s been grinding through the rumor mill for months and now it’s apparently a done deal. The U.S. Soccer Federation will launch a girls’ equivalent of the Development Academy, the nationwide youth league of top clubs intended to groom future professional and national-team players. Multiple sources have confirmed to SoccerWire.com that U.S. Soccer is preparing to launch this new initiative in the fall of 2017. An official announcement could come as early as next month, when most of the U.S. soccer world gathers in Baltimore for the NSCAA Convention. As of Tuesday afternoon, USSF officials had not responded to requests for comment. ECNL president Christian Lavers declined to comment on the subject when reached by SoccerWire.com. This development has major implications for the nation’s youth soccer landscape, on a level that is comparable in scale to the rise of the Development Academy – yet different in significant ways. The Elite Clubs National League has grown into a competition of similar size, scope and quality to the DA since its founding by a group of ambitious youth clubs in 2009. Though it receives no funding from the federation, the ECNL has provided much the same service to U.S. Soccer as the DA: It’s become the most competitive league in the country, home to the densest collection of talent from the Under-14 through U-18 age groups and the main source of personnel for U.S. youth national teams. The ECNL is led primarily by its member clubs and the DA – which debuted in 2007 – is run in a top-down fashion akin to other USSF projects. But in many other respects, the two leagues are mirror images. Both are highly selective, fiercely competitive on all levels and standard-bearers of the “club-centric” model of development. Both provide players with unparalleled exposure to recruiters from leading NCAA programs (and on the boys side, a growing number of players are finding more direct routes into the professional game). Strangely enough, both leagues even have 79 member clubs at present. The ECNL has long cultivated a collaborative relationship with the women’s side of the federation, guided by complementary values and leadership personalities and girded by the strong financial support of Nike, a leading sponsor of both organizations. Yet sources tell SoccerWire.com that USSF has yet to communicate its plans to ECNL leadership, or explain why it feels compelled to build a completely new league from scratch when ECNL has been working hand in glove with federation coaches to improve the developmental pathway for talented young female players. One source said that the federation envisions ECNL as the second tier of national girls’ competition, one rung underneath the new initiative. At the moment it’s unclear how far along the federation’s plans are for this new league, or whether its name, competition structure and membership have been determined. Another source suggested that the girls DA may be built on the rapidly-growing youth systems of the National Women’s Soccer League, the professional league founded and operated by U.S. Soccer. But there are still only 10 clubs in the NWSL, and large swaths of the nation’s talent pool fall well outside their reach. USSF executives are deeply proud of U.S. women’s success on the world stage, most prominently the reigning World Cup champions of the senior national team. They’re also sensitive to charges of gender inequity, and the widespread perception that the United States is frittering away its longstanding global superiority in the women’s game. The federation’s leadership may have felt compelled to create their own league in light of the keen rivalry between US Club Soccer, the sanctioning body of which the ECNL is a member, and US Youth Soccer, the larger incumbent which is home to most of the country’s recreational players but also offers elite competitions like National League and the “premier leagues” of its four regional subdivisions. These are just a few of the many questions that hang over the federation’s new project, and the clock is already ticking down towards its fall 2017 debut. www.soccerwire.com/news/clubs/sources-u-s-soccer-set-to-launch-girls-development-academy-in-2017-relegating-ecnl-to-second-tier/
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Post by rifle on Dec 30, 2015 6:21:50 GMT -5
Seems to me that having two parallel organizations hinders, rather than helps the betterment of the GAME. US Soccer (the fed) should rein it in and force a realignment. Form one entity with the best attributes of both.
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Post by stevieg on Dec 30, 2015 8:23:21 GMT -5
Didn't we win the World Cup?
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Post by SoccerMom on Dec 30, 2015 8:29:04 GMT -5
If Girls DA is partly funded like the boys side, the best players will go to it. Biggest issue with soccer right now is cost, if girls DA can cut some of that down it will be very appealing to a lot of players, one price thats it. It will also be more competitive like in the boys side.
US Club soccer was created to drive USYS out -- id2 to compete with ODP and NPL (a joke of a league)
It doesn't sound like US Soccer told ECNL about their plans but they saw it coming, their commissioner quit last month and is now working with Atlanta United, so maybe thats where the Academy will be.
I don't see ECNL dissappearing completely but I can see it getting affected, at the end of the day not everyone can make DA and it's not for everyone either. Boys DA is very cutthroat and I would expect the girls side to be run the same way
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Post by setpieces on Dec 30, 2015 16:14:55 GMT -5
If Girls DA is partly funded like the boys side, the best players will go to it. Biggest issue with soccer right now is cost, if girls DA can cut some of that down it will be very appealing to a lot of players, one price thats it. It will also be more competitive like in the boys side. US Club soccer was created to drive USYS out -- id2 to compete with ODP and NPL (a joke of a league) It doesn't sound like US Soccer told ECNL about their plans but they saw it coming, their commissioner quit last month and is now working with Atlanta United, so maybe thats where the Academy will be. I don't see ECNL dissappearing completely but I can see it getting affected, at the end of the day not everyone can make DA and it's not for everyone either. Boys DA is very cutthroat and I would expect the girls side to be run the same way By "cut throat" do you mean the competition, the players, the coaches, or all of the above? Just wondering what that would look like in a couple of years with multiple DA girls teams in the metro area. I don't think this is the case on the ECNL side as there seems to be more positions available than top talent on some teams.
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Post by SoccerMom on Dec 30, 2015 16:25:26 GMT -5
If Girls DA is partly funded like the boys side, the best players will go to it. Biggest issue with soccer right now is cost, if girls DA can cut some of that down it will be very appealing to a lot of players, one price thats it. It will also be more competitive like in the boys side. US Club soccer was created to drive USYS out -- id2 to compete with ODP and NPL (a joke of a league) It doesn't sound like US Soccer told ECNL about their plans but they saw it coming, their commissioner quit last month and is now working with Atlanta United, so maybe thats where the Academy will be. I don't see ECNL dissappearing completely but I can see it getting affected, at the end of the day not everyone can make DA and it's not for everyone either. Boys DA is very cutthroat and I would expect the girls side to be run the same way By "cut throat" do you mean the competition, the players, the coaches, or all of the above? Just wondering what that would look like in a couple of years with multiple DA girls teams in the metro area. I don't think this is the case on the ECNL side as there seems to be more positions available than top talent on some teams. i mean cut throat within the team itself. I have heard that boys DA is making cuts and adding new players mid season. They also don't have a high tolerance for players that don't cut it and have no problem benching players for multiple games. They do the required starting x amount of games, but they will take kids out after 10 minutes of play time.
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Post by spectator on Dec 31, 2015 10:45:18 GMT -5
I'm actually starting be so grateful we only have two more years of this craziness with our kid. How may more 'elite' level teams and leagues can we create before they cancel each other out and is this really about developing talent or getting more $ from parents who think if their kid plays on one of these fabricated elite teams, they'll get full ride D1 scholarships or daddy will have water cooler bragging rights?
For all the hoop-la about how college coaches only go to certain events, the fact remains that every college coach is still bound by NCAA Recruiting rules and cannot talk to players until their junior year - granted the superstars are on the big school's radar early, but sorry to burst bubbles here - not every kid is that superstar. Chasing the elite level team/club for some kind of payback for college is silly IMO and the more watered down these teams/clubs become, how much of an ROI will you really get?
And if DA is as soccermom described, how is THAT developing a player if they don't get playing time or get cut quickly? Even the national teams have a tad more patience in that area.
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Post by Soccerhouse on Dec 31, 2015 13:56:05 GMT -5
Well we have all heard the rumors for 3 years now.
What a nightmare with regards to timing.
Should have been implemented at the same time as age group switch.
Now we have 2 consecutive years in the future of s chaos on the girls side.
I think it's a situation where US soccer wants control. Expansion of ecnl in the south took years and their is no current club evaluation process.
What's crazy is ecnls momentum was and is currently a high speed freight train - gobbling up top talent and player after player. Their is no question that if your kid desires to play d1 women's soccer Ecnl is the place to be.
Non revenue generating sports have limited recruiting budgets so it's just easier for coaches to go to ecnl events.
Will add for sure DA is far from perfect. Many many top tier boys have been snubbed and more vs less opportunities should be created. My problem is it seems to focus on individuals vs team plAy and you can see it on the national and youth teams -- no concept how to play team soccer.
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Post by soccerpapi on Jan 1, 2016 10:59:57 GMT -5
ECNL and Girls DA - My immediate reaction and two cents worth:
Strengths or Positives
A partial list of common goals that I could see with both programs when looking at Boys' DA:
1) Improve Development - Platform for high potential - aspiring female talent for her next level (whatever that may be)
- College (NCAA)
- Pro league (WPS or other)
- National team (USWNT)
2) National Teams Alignment - Align development for both male and female soccer under a unified program 3) Common Player Standards - Improve Player metrics, accountability - fitness, style, player grading, improvement targets, etc. 4) Common Coaching Standards - Improve Coaching standards, metrics, and accountabilityWeaknesses or Negatives 1) Parent Confusion and "YAEYSL" - may further confuse parents (so many brands and leagues) may alienate some initially- YAESL = "Yet Another Elite Youth Soccer League"
2) Elite vs. Them Club Soccer Culture Never Help Kids in Long Run- Continue to pitch one league or organization vs. the other (US Club/ECNL vs. USYS/DA)
Similar to member clubs who bash non-member clubs does not help kids or national team in the long run
3) Talent Dilution - Further dilute talent and cause families of other so-called elite leagues to go broke chasing yet another "next best league"- More leagues is not necessarily a bad thing as it spread landscape to find taken, but not all should be called "elite" - there should be some sort of promotion to each level
4) Money Grab - Until pro teams can afford to offer these programs FREE of cost on their own- Yet another opportunity for the vast amount of club coaches involved (not all) to use this brand to drain families' pocket..particularly those who think little Mia is "DA-elite"..
Opportunities or Threats 1) Centralize Development - Ultimate goal could be to centralize talent into a pro league led academy model. However, talent is too spread out for this to be successful initially until we have more teams generating revenue in a women's pro league or align the female DA under the same umbrella as MLS or have a mix MLS and WPS focus DA program. Long term, I am not quite sure what financial return the men's pro team has to train elite female athlete unless they can sell them to pro teams in Europe, etc. 2) Why Build When You can Buy (Include ECNL) - In the short term, perhaps use the existing platform that ECNL has already built to provide an girls DA solution that include some of the clubs / teams that are already members of that current platform (this may be less costly for USSF). Perhaps the initial girls DA program should reward consistently top girls performing clubs or promoting top players/teams from ECNL to DA, etc. 3) Include Top Performing Non-ENCL Clubs - Make girls DA membership fair by including both existing top performing and Quality coaching ECNL clubs as well as top performing and quality Coaching non-ECNL clubs who may have not gotten get the ECNL membership invite? 4) National Team Accountability and Measuring Stick - Who is accountable (who gets fired?) when the development academy does not produce the results through our national teams? What exactly is the measure of success? What is the timetable for that success? There are many USYS teams or clubs in each age group that are better than most of their ECNL counterparts - how do you create a model that rewards them versus force them to leave their quality coaching development (and friends) to move to DA/ENCL? More often than not when compared to boys counterpart, I would imagine that "elite girl player" would choose to stay with quality coaching and friends over the "destination club" concept. 5) Reduce or Eliminate High Pay to Play Cost on Girls Side - My understanding is that MLS facilitate the ability for some of the DA clubs to provide FREE program on the boys side (at least 30+ boys DA programs). I believe that some non-MLS DA provide tuition free program with players or families only having to cover travel and expenses. Nike and USSF also sponsor "need based" scholarship to qualified players - one of the most compelling differences or missing from existing Girls elite programs that would help expand the talent poolOverall Reaction
In the end, if girls DA launch in 2017 means a) put players and kids first b) improve Coaching quality and standards, c) improve the Women's National team (Honestly, while they just won this past world cup, they did look horrible in group play, and everyone else is catching up technically), and d) reduce the "my elite badge/club is better than your elite badge/club" culture, and lastly e) reduce overall cost and expand the pool of available top talent by making the sport affordable to all, then it may be worth a shot.USSF alone does not have the resources to cover the entire US landscape in identifying top talent (300+ million people). If the creators and architects of this program are made up of both soccer and business types, they would use a hybrid, mixed solution approach initially to launch girls development academy that incorporates and not alienate MLS, WPS, USYS, and ECNL to help cover the entire US landscape..Long term goal could ultimately be to leverage USYS and ECNL as feeder/training grounds for the higher level academies. However, this would make too much sense, and would require cooperation and collaboration, and would be of benefits to players, and is wishful thinking on my part - let's wait and see.
Just my two cents as a supporter-promoter of US soccer in general. Glad that my girl player is done...Your thoughts?
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Post by zizou on Jan 6, 2016 14:05:46 GMT -5
ECNL and Girls DA - My immediate reaction and two cents worth:
Just as an opening statement - Brought to you by the same people who brought you the age mandate roll out! Anyway, people have been waiting for some sort of announcement on this front for a few years. soccerpapi and Soccerhouse have already covered considerable ground above. A few additional comments: 1. This can either end up being a great opportunity or an unmitigated disaster. I do not think there is any in-between for something like this. Just because the Fed wants to start such a program there is no guarantee it will work. 2. DAP for boys has been around since 2007. Has there been measurable improvement as a direct result of this program, run by the Fed, to any boys' YNT? Is the senior men's side in a better place as a direct result of this program? When Germany and Belgium changed their national training systems, within 10 years they were both in the top 2 in the world. People say you cannot compare European football to what we do here but I disagree. Every country in the world is held, in the end, to the exact same standard. I think one could reasonably argue that the MNT program is worse; it clearly is not better. There is no evidence, over a 10 year period, that the Fed can be entrusted to enhancing the development on the male side. Why would we think they would be any better on the female side? 3. The Fed did not want to start this type of program for girls until US Club Soccer and their ECNL demonstrated that there was demand and that people would pay for, maybe flock to, it. The only reason I say this is because the one person I know who actually has information about this kind of thing told me that in meetings about DAP for girls, up until about 3 years ago Gulati stated unequivocally that USSF had no interest; ECNL was doing this for them. So something has changed. 4. One thing that maybe has changed is that US Club Soccer has demonstrated that there is money to be made. US Club is doing this as a business. As a result, I doubt they will go quietly into the night. Their system is not perfect, but I do think they are genuinely interested in development, but they would not be doing this if they did not have paying customers. As a result, unless there is some organized and as yet unspecified arrangement for how the different organizations will slice the pie, I doubt US Club will accept whatever vision the Fed has for DA versus ECNL. We will probably find out more about how this might work in a few weeks during the annual coaches convention. 5. The organized development and training platform is a nice theory, and would seem to make sense. But has anyone watched the WNTs at the youth level and compared them to the way the USWNT plays? If you have, I think you would draw the conclusion that there is no comparison. Is not the Fed currently in charge of the way the YNTs play? Are they not in charge of the USWNT? The same can be said of the men's side. 6. The same coaches out there coaching now are going to be the same coaches available for any new league. I doubt if you call a new league DA those coaches are going to improve and/or change their style. 7. Competition is good! One of the ways this works in Germany is that there are regional centers, and those regional centers compete to see who does the best job of developing talent. What the Fed wants to do is eliminate competition. They want to homogenize the training process. I think this is a bad idea. This stifles creativity in training and development. Again, if you had an elite level player in your house, seeing how the Fed has performed with boy's DAP, would you trust them with your DD? 8. It is absolutely the case that a new "Elite" league will result in further dilution of talent, but maybe that gives more players the chance to shine. 9. Unless there is some major sponsor that is going to fund a major part of this operation, it will end up being even more expensive than the current top leagues for girls. Travel and training costs will be considerable. For instance, I think SoccerMom is probably right that the reason ECNL head went to ATL FC is to start girls DAP. How many such programs will be in the Southeast? As many as there are ECNL clubs, which is 10? Probably not. That means clubs could be more distributed geographically. Actually, this move will probably increase costs for everyone in all leagues that want to market themselves as playing an "elite" level of competition because talent, meaning also member clubs, will be more distributed. Top level coaches will be the ones benefitting the most. More people will be competing monetarily for their talents. Good for them. 10. It is possible that with 2 year age group teams (U13/14, U15/16, U17/18) they might be able to pack clubs in more densely. It is a lot easier to find 10-15 truly top notch players per age than is is to find twice that number. If so, then maybe they could pack academies more closely. 11. Can you imagine the griping that is going to take place after certain clubs are awarded Academy status and others are not? Their status will be awarded, not earned. Keeping it might be another matter. Listen to the griping now with regard to ECNL clubs. As soccerpapi said above, there are certainly other good teams at other clubs, and those teams could compete in ECNL, or anywhere for that matter. The problem is that ECNL, just like DAP, is necessarily club-based. You have to have teams at your club that can compete at every age level. This is not so easy. 12. There is no substantial pro path for girls. If the same organizational structure holds for girls as exists for boys, how many girls' families will be in positions to get themselves to Cobb County, or MOVE to Cobb County, so their DD can train 4 days per week? There is no big payoff in the end. Heck, the payoff for boys is pretty shabby. There is already a proven mechanism for getting girls to college. They do not need DAP for that purpose and this is the main purpose for most such really elite players. Maybe the girls we are talking about for a DAP would be willing to give up high school and other non-club soccer activities. Maybe not. But like one of them per Academy MIGHT have a shot at the USWNT. Not good odds. And they are doing this to enhance USWNT in the end? Are there really top level players being missed now? Is there really someone better than Mallory Pugh, for instance, who the USSF staff have overlooked? 13. I like the idea of a free market dictating success and failure. So I like the idea of competition between leagues and training structures/ideas. I hope this move, if it is a move, by the USSF ends up stimulating such a process. 14. I don't have any special information, but I have heard that the real roll-out date is Fall 2016. I have also heard the rumor that they might start with the youngest age group and phase it in that way, which would make a lot of sense. But as others have said with regard to the age mandate, this type of phase in would have made a lot of sense there, and they did not do it. Chances are they will screw this up also.
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Post by SoccerMom on Jan 6, 2016 14:40:38 GMT -5
All i have heard is since i posted is that it wont roll out until 2017 and that AUFC is not interested in investing in it at the moment.
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Post by Soccerhouse on Jan 7, 2016 10:29:36 GMT -5
I understand AUFC lack of interest for now too much on their plate. Some "professionals" I've spoken with have said they would have waited a year or 2 longer also to start their youth system with all the issues they will have to deal with being a new club --- senior team, new training facility, new stadium etc...
But I think the reality is their are some top notch players at Ga United and AUFC wants them to be considered home growns for the future....
But (2nd but....) -- would have liked to see the AUFC team be different and make a push for a girls top notch program as well and really set the standard like Orlando city, which now has the complete pyramid.
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Post by zizou on Jan 7, 2016 13:18:31 GMT -5
All i have heard is since i posted is that it wont roll out until 2017 and that AUFC is not interested in investing in it at the moment. Wait, but if they say 2017 doesn't that really mean 2016? I mean the 2017 season is really the 2016-2017 season, right? And we go by the end of the seasonal year for determining cutoffs, right? Or is that only for the age mandate? Oh, I am so confused. This will all become clear as mud in the coming days, I mean weeks, I mean months, I mean years...
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Post by SoccerMom on Jan 7, 2016 13:46:45 GMT -5
All i have heard is since i posted is that it wont roll out until 2017 and that AUFC is not interested in investing in it at the moment. Wait, but if they say 2017 doesn't that really mean 2016? I mean the 2017 season is really the 2016-2017 season, right? And we go by the end of the seasonal year for determining cutoffs, right? Or is that only for the age mandate? Oh, I am so confused. This will all become clear as mud in the coming days, I mean weeks, I mean months, I mean years... My understanding is Fall of 2017 -- same year as when the boys DA will start with the new age mandate. This is probably being done so that both programs run the same
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Post by zizou on Jan 8, 2016 0:35:40 GMT -5
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Post by Soccerhouse on Jan 25, 2016 8:37:40 GMT -5
Twitter world says US soccer will announce Girls DA today
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Post by Soccerhouse on Jan 25, 2016 9:50:08 GMT -5
Props to zizou ---- Announcement appears to be delayed now.
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Post by zizou on Jan 25, 2016 17:56:16 GMT -5
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Post by Soccerhouse on Jan 26, 2016 11:28:52 GMT -5
It is a pretty amazing the lack of communication from US Soccer to US Club/ECNL . I'm not sure why I always expect more in the Soccer world when it comes to youth soccer in terms of communication, this really is their standard way of operation. This is something that has been discussed probably for close to 2 years now from those involved with US soccer and DA.
"As far as the ECNL is concerned, the issue of redundancy is particularly problematic. If U.S. Soccer opts to bring its array of resources to bear on a youth league that looks like the ECNL model, that presents players with a choice that will inevitably leave one league in the lurch over time. That would essentially pit U.S. Soccer’s resources against the ECNL’s already established reach in its communities.
Given the lack of communication with the ECNL since the task force dispersed 15 months ago, it seems unlikely the two are merging outright, which gives the federation’s announcement a heightened glow of anticipatory radiance. However dramatically, the state of girls soccer development in the U.S. is about to change. We're about to find out how much"
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Post by Soccerhouse on Feb 1, 2016 8:20:05 GMT -5
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Post by rifle on Feb 1, 2016 10:33:27 GMT -5
Good idea there
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Post by zizou on Feb 12, 2016 10:33:50 GMT -5
Some really interesting comments by Anson Dorrance Wednesday on Glenn Crooks' The Coaching Academy show on Sirius XMFC. You need a subscription to listen but you can get a 30 day free trial. Here is link if anyone wants to go to trouble to listen. He covered a lot of interesting ground including talking about girls DAP. Bottom line is he said ECNL has done a brilliant job, they have raised the level of play for higher levels of girls soccer in USA in short time, he seemed to be questioning USSFs motives because he said soccer on the girls side was in no way broken, and that ECNL deserved to be treated with respect by USSF. I do not know whether he has an agenda other than wanting to find best players for his teams. www.siriusxm.com/ondemand
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