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Post by Soccerhouse on Dec 1, 2016 16:13:37 GMT -5
Time to start engaging some more topics/threads/constructive conversation surrounding youth soccer etc. I think our board is thriving, but still would like to see a little bit more activity on a daily basis. I've tried to take a back seat the last few months and post fewer threads. Don't be shy to start a new thread on a new challenging topic. Some amazing people/parents/coaches are part of our small little community here.
Thanks for all your posts/threads/topics/discussions/arguments/disagreements etc -- this community has always been about you all and us crazy parents/coaches etc....
I think our viewership is a lot greater than our posting. Many folks come around and read but don't post replies or new threads. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that, just trying to figure out a way to keep folks engaged etc, especially as most of our fall seasons come to end and for some their child's youth soccer club experience is wrapping up.
Look for a new Pros/Cons series on various topics - how much as changed in youth soccer in the past 5 years alone. focusing on soccer only, ie one sport specialization parent involvement how much should coaches/club communicate with parents/players teams sports vs individual sports atlanta youth soccer scene youth coaches DA Girls DA ECNL Boys ECNL RPL/national league
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Post by spectator on Dec 2, 2016 0:08:20 GMT -5
My two cents and additions
how much as changed in youth soccer in the past 5 years alone. - Like this one - reflect back on how not only the orginzation has changed but we as parents - I know we're all older and wiser from the early Academy days to the end of high school and entering college.
focusing on soccer only, ie one sport specialization - which sports are the best compliment without over taxing young muscles
parent involvement - this could be good - it'll depend on the age - the level - the league - include things like parents as referees or volunteering for positions on boards or with GA Soccer
how much should coaches/club communicate with parents/players - See above again - depends on age
teams sports vs individual sports - I dont get this one - soccer forum would be about soccer - at team sport, right?
atlanta youth soccer scene isn't that kinda what we are talking about here anyway?
youth coaches - slipperly slope - are you suggesting we name names of the good or the bad? Maybe roll it in with the one about communcation and discuss what makes a good/bad coach.
DA
Girls DA
ECNL
Boys ECNL
RPL/national league - meh on all these. You'll get way more involvement if the topics appeal to all users - someone with a kid playing Classic 1 won't participate in threads like this - and the ECNL/RPL battle will never end or be won.
My hot buttons: Referees - and how parents,coaches treat them Sportsmanship - of players AND parents on sidelines
And there's always high school - pro or con. LOL
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Post by rifle on Dec 2, 2016 6:46:20 GMT -5
We obviously have all seen on the other forum what "too much noise" does to a message board. I think the signal:noise ratio on this forum is better than most.. so I wouldn't sweat the lack of traffic.
Unless you are paying to run this forum, and losing interest. If you let it go, life will go on.
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Post by Soccerhouse on Dec 2, 2016 7:22:53 GMT -5
agree!
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Post by infoguy on Dec 2, 2016 7:27:55 GMT -5
The topics are good ideas. And as a parent that likes to help my kids, however close we can get to useful, fact-based information is helpful. And collective experience from parents that have been through this ride helps me. Here's my feedback on the topics: how much as changed in youth soccer in the past 5 years alone - I think would be revealed when discussing leagues, recruitment, etc. focusing on soccer only, ie one sport specialization - younger parents would benefit from collective experiences. how much should coaches/club communicate with parents/players - "should" is a dangerous word. But I think collective experiences will help parents decide what coaches/clubs they like. teams sports vs individual sports - pass atlanta youth soccer scene - well covered already. youth coaches - I think it would be good to discuss specific coaches and clubs. We are paying customers. The following would be great, given all the leagues today: DA Girls DA ECNL Boys ECNL RPL/national league Read more: gasoccerforum.com/thread/2066/thread-ideas-pros-various-topics#ixzz4RgONmAm5
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Post by zizou on Dec 2, 2016 11:38:03 GMT -5
I have lost interest in talking about existing leagues. Our kids play in one of these leagues (ECNL). Level of competition overall is unquestionably better than they would see in any other league. Does not mean all the best teams are in this one league, but there are no easy games. There are no off-weeks. That is probably good for overall growth as a player.
Nevertheless, I do not think good club-based youth LEAGUES are the solution to International Class player development. I do not think they are the answer for elite player development. I do not get why people conflate these two things. I do not get why USSF wants to create just another league (GDA) and that they think this is going to help solve their problems.
So, my fantasy thread(s) would address better approaches to International Class player development. How would this look? Where to start? I have my ideas, the first of which is to stop the madness of letting players from anyplace play at any club anywhere. My first step would be for USSF to say players must play for a club in their catchment area. Little League baseball used to do this, assume they still do. If I was Sunil Gulati this would be the first rule I would implement; other things would flow from there (but I will save those other mechanisms for after people tell me this is unrealistic and undemocratic and against everything we stand for in the US of A).
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Post by soccernotfootball on Dec 2, 2016 11:55:14 GMT -5
"...the first of which is to stop the madness of letting players from anyplace play at any club anywhere. My first step would be for USSF to say players must play for a club in their catchment area..." 100% spot on. Imagine clubs focused on their players/families and players/families that help to build up the club.
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Post by Soccerhouse on Dec 2, 2016 12:26:18 GMT -5
I have lost interest in talking about existing leagues. Our kids play in one of these leagues (ECNL). Level of competition overall is unquestionably better than they would see in any other league. Does not mean all the best teams are in this one league, but there are no easy games. There are no off-weeks. That is probably good for overall growth as a player. Nevertheless, I do not think good club-based youth LEAGUES are the solution to International Class player development. I do not think they are the answer for elite player development. I do not get why people conflate these two things. I do not get why USSF wants to create just another league (GDA) and that they think this is going to help solve their problems. The best part is watch, clubs will be charging more now for basically the same thing they have already been offering.
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Post by alacrity174 on Dec 2, 2016 13:20:35 GMT -5
"...the first of which is to stop the madness of letting players from anyplace play at any club anywhere. My first step would be for USSF to say players must play for a club in their catchment area..." 100% spot on. Imagine clubs focused on their players/families and players/families that help to build up the club. Not a fan of this, where is the incentive for clubs to do better, isn't this removing choice from us the consumer also. I know that for my "catchment area", the local club is not good and I wouldn't have my kids play there if the club paid me to do so.
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Post by zizou on Dec 2, 2016 13:39:18 GMT -5
Not a fan of this, where is the incentive for clubs to do better, isn't this removing choice from us the consumer also. I know that for my "catchment area", the local club is not good and I wouldn't have my kids play there if the club paid me to do so. You have a choice. You vote out the Board, the DOC, the coaches, and get people in there who know what they are doing. What do you do when your candidate loses an election and you are stuck with what you consider bad policies and terrible choices? Do you move to the next country? Maybe you do. If so, then move your family to a place where there is a better soccer club choice. You would probably take that step if the schools were bad in your area. If you don't take that step, then make your local club better. I am also guessing one of reasons your local club is not good is because the people currently running the club have forced all the players who feel they have options to leave the club. Get all those players back and then things might not look so bad. Like I said, this would be my phase one. It would affect all clubs equally. If I was the Soccer Czar I would build in inceptives for clubs to be better in other ways. There would still be competition. But I understand people won't like this approach. Only my idea about how to reshape the culture. Other people might have better ideas. Fine by me.
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Post by alacrity174 on Dec 3, 2016 18:29:29 GMT -5
Not a fan of this, where is the incentive for clubs to do better, isn't this removing choice from us the consumer also. I know that for my "catchment area", the local club is not good and I wouldn't have my kids play there if the club paid me to do so. You have a choice. You vote out the Board, the DOC, the coaches, and get people in there who know what they are doing. What do you do when your candidate loses an election and you are stuck with what you consider bad policies and terrible choices? Do you move to the next country? Maybe you do. If so, then move your family to a place where there is a better soccer club choice. You would probably take that step if the schools were bad in your area. If you don't take that step, then make your local club better. I am also guessing one of reasons your local club is not good is because the people currently running the club have forced all the players who feel they have options to leave the club. Get all those players back and then things might not look so bad. Like I said, this would be my phase one. It would affect all clubs equally. If I was the Soccer Czar I would build in inceptives for clubs to be better in other ways. There would still be competition. But I understand people won't like this approach. Only my idea about how to reshape the culture. Other people might have better ideas. Fine by me. Still not a fan, soccer isn't the same as politics it's more akin. To grocery stores, if I don't like the publix just down the street I can chose to drive kroger a little further away. With your analogy it would take years to get the change mentioned and my kid would be through the system by then with no benefit. Would you also have everyone go to their immediate local university rather than having the option of going wherever you want to pay for?
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Post by zizou on Dec 4, 2016 14:32:34 GMT -5
Like I said. If you don't like your local team, move your family. Or make your club better. When a kid goes to a distant school they move. They don't spend hours in the car every week going to school. This whole bypassing your local club thing is also driven by other factors besides quality of local club. Big clubs sell a bill of goods. They prey on insecurities. They perpetuate belief that if you don't join them the player will be left behind. The whole system is constructed in a fashion to inhibit grass roots development programs. Exactly what USSF does with their DA approach. Sad really.
Like I also said, this is only step 1 of a proposal. What is step 1 of your plan? Love to hear alternative ideas.
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Post by soccerpapi on Dec 4, 2016 16:09:41 GMT -5
Like I said. If you don't like your local team, move your family. Or make your club better. When a kid goes to a distant school they move. They don't spend hours in the car every week going to school. This whole bypassing your local club thing is also driven by other factors besides quality of local club. Big clubs sell a bill of goods. They prey on insecurities. They perpetuate belief that if you don't join them the player will be left behind. The whole system is constructed in a fashion to inhibit grass roots development programs. Exactly what USSF does with their DA approach. Sad really. Like I also said, this is only step 1 of a proposal. What is step 1 of your plan? Love to hear alternative ideas. Young player development
For the most part - in agreement with your statement on the big club sales pitch..but:
IMHO - Improvements should not require legislating where parents take their player (that should be up to a player/parent's choice) in a free market system...While I agree that USSF curriculum such as Coach and player education, evaluation, and measurements are done in a consistent and enforceable score card manner in the youth level as much as they are trying to do with higher level DA. The question is how do you enforce that in the smaller club? And how to educate parents so that they see the value of small clubs for their 10-year old Mia's/Messi's?
Comparing to school districting seems to be "apples to oranges comparison", and is too politically motivated to make or generate any desired changes quickly as most clubs are private while schools ran by local government.
Value of local/smaller club
Local, smaller club are valuable, and in most cases very important in the technical development process where lots of Coaches may not be under as much pressure to win as they are to teach technical skills, enforce USSF curriculums (whatever those are), and ensure kids remain interested in the game (having fun, learning, at whatever pace suit that player). Most (not all) parents who understand the game (in some cased have played the game) do not take the 1-2 hour commute for their 10-yr old while they may consider it at age 13-14.
In the end - What is each player's end goal?
As a parent with kids who have played D1 college, there are a few questions to reflect on:
- In the 12-14 youth playing years (2 clubs) -- Kid only played with 1-2 players that made US national call ups
- For some this is different - majority of kids (parents) desire is college scholarship vs. prof. soccer player
- Personally, my kid's interest is medical degree while experiencing college athletics, and paying for it thru game
- In order to accomplish the above, not everyone need to travel 1-hour to practice, but some choose to
- In order to accomplish the above, not everyone needs RPL or ECNL or DA, but some choose that route
- Am I in favor of legislating what parent chooses to do, not at all..
My plan as it relates to the above:
Improving parents' soccer IQ - the game and its dynamics are very different from our other US sports Encourage "grass root" soccer playing (non-structured) at a younger age - save money, build creative players Do not legislate what club people go to - compensate the small-local clubs for talent they develop to the big clubs (compensation for implementing USSF curriculum that ends up helping the national ID pool - DA, etc..)
Other topics: - What responsibility should youth soccer have to parent's end goal the "college game/scholarship"? versus - What responsibility should youth soccer have to parent's end goal "national team/pool"? - What responsibility should D1 college athletic have to the "national team" (kids graduate move on with life)?
Just my two cents as a student-player of the game, and US soccer advocate.
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Post by newposter on Dec 4, 2016 19:57:15 GMT -5
We drive an hour one way to our club. Our local club is not equipped to meet the needs of our child so we make this choice. Sounds like a parent on here is afraid their child's spot is going to be taken by those of us are driving. By the way, we were recruited to the club by the DOC.
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Post by rifle on Dec 4, 2016 21:17:46 GMT -5
It's awesome to me that Arthur Blank is spending millions for a top shelf soccer organization in Atlanta. I especially cherish AU's apparent plan to identify future first team players through their youth academy. To me, nothing would be more awesome that seeing kids I've watched since U8, competing for the Atlanta United first team. THAT is the epitome of what club soccer should be about.
Still, I am conflicted about supporting AU, because I think that ANY hierarchy which places one team "above" another without competition is compromised. From Georgia youth soccer all the way up to pro soccer, the fact that US Soccer (federation) allows new "good/better/best" divisions to jump rungs on the ladder without earning their place via competition, is bullcrap.
It almost seems as if US Soccer is deliberately trying to complicate what should be very simple.
I'm saddened because our pro and international level will never be world class without an open pyramid with clubs built on top of youth academies competing against one another for the right to be the best. Rather than have it bequeathed to them because they had the most money.
Thoughts?
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Post by newposter on Dec 4, 2016 23:19:12 GMT -5
I'm not sure it's about $. Clubs who get players from others have always done so. It's about who can draw the best to them. It could be AU can do this. Maybe because of location they won't. That's yet to be seen. What is true, the best players at every club are known and are wanted by others if they will improve a team.
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Post by chelsea14 on Dec 5, 2016 10:30:21 GMT -5
just finished the first season moving from a mega club around the block from our house to a much smaller club with a bit of a drive. the reason for the move was the coaching, though we were definitely rolling the dice as we knew no one at the new club and were just going on coaching reputation.
we could not be happier with the move. although likely playing a level down from where they could be competition wise, understanding of the game has increased tremendously, coached tactically which never received before, team improved as the season went on, what is expected is crystal clear and they play so much much better looking soccer than any we saw at the old megaclub at any level really.
our only regret is that we did not do it sooner.
i dont doubt that there are plenty of good coaches in the area and good clubs, but this is the first year we have had one in many. the mega club had what we would consider one or two good coaches out of many, and even those coaches teams played kick and run soccer. politics were out of control, parents that sucked up had their kids rewarded regardless of their play and level.
maybe we are just oblivious and naive to this stuff at the new club, but from what we can tell this kind of stuff is not happening at the new club. coach would not stand for it. hard work and good play are rewarded. what a nice easy concept to be able to discuss with our kid now that is is actually true!
why is it so difficult for the parents to find out where the good coaching is? instead we are left to try it and then move on if it does not work. some clubs try and hide who the coaches are, who they will be for the next season, and i can only assume because they are not proud of them. the run around we were given at the end of last season on who the coaches would be at the megaclub was comical and made the decision easier.
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Post by alacrity174 on Dec 5, 2016 12:33:19 GMT -5
Like I said. If you don't like your local team, move your family. Or make your club better. When a kid goes to a distant school they move. They don't spend hours in the car every week going to school. This whole bypassing your local club thing is also driven by other factors besides quality of local club. Big clubs sell a bill of goods. They prey on insecurities. They perpetuate belief that if you don't join them the player will be left behind. The whole system is constructed in a fashion to inhibit grass roots development programs. Exactly what USSF does with their DA approach. Sad really. Like I also said, this is only step 1 of a proposal. What is step 1 of your plan? Love to hear alternative ideas. Don't you see this as a very draconian statement to make? I buy a house depending on things that are important, School district is one of those, which soccer club is in my area isn't one of them and in my mind shouldn't be. As I said before this is a consumer choice along the line of which grocery store I shop at, if I chose to bypass the closet store to get to one I feel is superior then I will. I have played the game, hold USSF Coaching licences and am also a USSF referee so I would hope I am able to asses a club/coaches positives and negatives. You will never achieve 100% satisfaction as a club no matter how well you do. It is human nature for someone to feel aggrieved about something or have one coach who maybe doesn't hit the mark so will lose some perception points with your prospective customers. Personally I have chosen to go with a Coach I trust for my kids and not the club, you can criticize all you want but this is my approach and so far has worked out. Removing choice means you limit accountability, changing a club such as SSA or UFA for example would take a long time and require resources I would prefer to use for important things in my life, I am under no illusion that my kids will play MLS level soccer or pull on the USMNT shirt in a game. My preference is not for these Mega-Clubs, I have seen the level of accountability and responsiveness drop dramatically at one club and made a move based on this, which seems to have worked out well to date, however it was my ability to make this choice which is important and which under your suggestion would be removed, this is akin to the GA Soccer transfer system, what you are basically saying is the club round the corner owns the rights to my child which in my opinion is totally inconsistent with driving change. I'll be honest I haven't put a great deal of thought into how to elicit change, but one of the first things that needs to be addressed is the pay to play format, when a DOC at let's say SSA is making high 6 figures then you can see that the onus isn't on developing players it is purely revenue driven. After all look at the metrics, prior to SSA Cobb FC had RPL teams at almost every age and gender with Cl1/AthA as second level teams, now after 6 years these numbers have declined dramatically, I am using SSA as an example only and not to point fingers at any person individually, a return to smaller clubs at younger levels for development, then possibly a consolidation of perceived talent as the players get older could then lead to players with the appropriate coaching and competition to develop into the Professional level player, College level player or Adult recreational level player. All of which are important to the overall development of Soccer in the USA, especially what should be the biggest group the adults that continue to play after their youth experience is completed, if we don't have that then the game will wither on the vine.
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Post by rifle on Dec 5, 2016 19:06:07 GMT -5
(Snip) ....why is it so difficult for the parents to find out where the good coaching is? instead we are left to try it and then move on if it does not work. some clubs try and hide who the coaches are, who they will be for the next season, and i can only assume because they are not proud of them. the run around we were given at the end of last season on who the coaches would be at the megaclub was comical and made the decision easier. For a positive recommendation in particular.. it'll be less difficult to find out if you stated a name.
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Post by zizou on Dec 6, 2016 10:58:53 GMT -5
We drive an hour one way to our club. Our local club is not equipped to meet the needs of our child so we make this choice. Sounds like a parent on here is afraid their child's spot is going to be taken by those of us are driving. By the way, we were recruited to the club by the DOC. I don't know if this was directed at me. Funny if so. We drive farther than you. Same reason. Not proud of it. Would never be afraid of our kids losing their spots; if they did my travel time would be considerably reduced! Soccer is an extra-curricular activity, and we try to maximize the benefit/cost. If they are not as talented as someone else, they don't get top placement. Just like math class. Way the world works. If they want it, they work as hard as they can. Still no guarantees in life, even if you get recruited. But this was not the issue I was hoping to address. Was hoping to engage in discussion of how we could build a grassroots movement. Won't happen if you and me are driving some crazy distance to take our kids to training.
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