|
Post by neymarscleats on Mar 27, 2017 13:52:58 GMT -5
Thank you in advance for indulging me on this scenario. This is almost like an essay question without a right answer but am hopeful you will not be bashful with opinions and perspectives.
Assumption: We have a current 2003 Player who is playing RPL for a big club. And current 2nd year ODP for what it's worth
Going Forward: Let's assume she is a likely bubble player for DA or ECNL pending on the club she tries out for with half a chance of being selected on either again pending the club and numbers.
What are the considerations that should be taken into account?
Obviously it is up to her, not me. But let's assume she is open to any offer she may get. I want to be able to give her the knowledge necessary to make an informed decision.
A club that has DA, ECNL and RPL. Is a girl who at best is a bubble player wise to go with a DA offer or in this scenario consider ECNL solely due to the minutes she would be getting? And for that matter, can RPL arguably be the correct choice if playing time was among the top priorities?
Other considerations? Development. I am thinking with a club that has DA (players 1-18 or so at the club), ECNL (players 19-36), RPL (players 37-54ish)
Are you better off sitting on the bench potentially if you are player 18 or player 33 or playing many more minutes as player 40 at this club? And if you are playing those minutes let's say at RPL, is development stunted because no club can go 40-50 players deep and still be training with the quality needed for development? Also, is this the third best coach at a club that would be RPL?
Looking another way, would it be more beneficial to try out (assuming an offer would occur) at a club without BOTH DA and ECNL? As stated above, if a club only has DA or ECNL not both you can then be among players 19-36 (RPL) and thus be training with better players and theoretically have a club's better coach?
Or would some of you say get the best offer you can get, if the girl was interested, and potentially ride the bench for most of every game if that offer is at player 18 at a club? She has the club's highest licensed coach, and is training with the club's best players but again not getting minutes come competitive game time.
I know some of you can speak to this now as you have girls on ECNL that do not play much? Is it worth it in expense, time and psyche? Or given the option in hindsight would RPL have been better solely for the minutes?
Sorry for the wordiness and do not intend to be pretentious here. I am hoping for honest banter now that the system is about to blow up again this June after we thought it was settled. What would you do and why/why not?
Thank you
|
|
coop
Jr. Academy
Posts: 12
|
Post by coop on Mar 27, 2017 19:34:45 GMT -5
Someone has to be #18. With boys it's top team all the way - which would be DA. But the difference is not as clear between the the top 2 teams as in younger age groups - more like 1A & 1B due to a variety of factors including the player's desire to play with school team and ODP, etc. I would gage the interest in other soccer participation as the deciding factor because even the 18th player gets fantastic work during practices regardless of playing time. My 2 cents.
|
|
|
Post by fan on Mar 27, 2017 21:06:40 GMT -5
I'm a big believer in giving kids the time and freedom to choose a variety of activities. I'd have a hard time steering my kids towards DA especially at the youngest age groups.
I see the DA players at the high school watching the games because they can't play. I see the high school teammates who play ECNL looking to move down a level next year or quit altogether because they're tired of the travel. I see my kids try basketball, swimming or cross country and love them (and enjoy soccer even more when the seasons begin). They still love the occasional out of town tournament since it's a novelty for them rather than a once or twice a month obligation. It's hard to do other stuff at the highest levels of soccer so that means CI/Athena A level for our family which is just fine with me.
If I had a younger girl who really wanted to focus on soccer, I'd likely lean towards ECNL, probably at a club that does not have DA. If money or the amount of travel is an issue, I'd look at RPL next. There are occasionally RPL teams at smaller clubs which can be an option if you want a club's top coach and want to be more of a priority to the club.
|
|
|
Post by SoccerMom on Mar 28, 2017 7:27:01 GMT -5
Thank you in advance for indulging me on this scenario. This is almost like an essay question without a right answer but am hopeful you will not be bashful with opinions and perspectives. Assumption: We have a current 2003 Player who is playing RPL for a big club. And current 2nd year ODP for what it's worth Going Forward: Let's assume she is a likely bubble player for DA or ECNL pending on the club she tries out for with half a chance of being selected on either again pending the club and numbers. What are the considerations that should be taken into account? Obviously it is up to her, not me. But let's assume she is open to any offer she may get. I want to be able to give her the knowledge necessary to make an informed decision. A club that has DA, ECNL and RPL. Is a girl who at best is a bubble player wise to go with a DA offer or in this scenario consider ECNL solely due to the minutes she would be getting? And for that matter, can RPL arguably be the correct choice if playing time was among the top priorities? Other considerations? Development. I am thinking with a club that has DA (players 1-18 or so at the club), ECNL (players 19-36), RPL (players 37-54ish) Are you better off sitting on the bench potentially if you are player 18 or player 33 or playing many more minutes as player 40 at this club? And if you are playing those minutes let's say at RPL, is development stunted because no club can go 40-50 players deep and still be training with the quality needed for development? Also, is this the third best coach at a club that would be RPL? Looking another way, would it be more beneficial to try out (assuming an offer would occur) at a club without BOTH DA and ECNL? As stated above, if a club only has DA or ECNL not both you can then be among players 19-36 (RPL) and thus be training with better players and theoretically have a club's better coach? Or would some of you say get the best offer you can get, if the girl was interested, and potentially ride the bench for most of every game if that offer is at player 18 at a club? She has the club's highest licensed coach, and is training with the club's best players but again not getting minutes come competitive game time. I know some of you can speak to this now as you have girls on ECNL that do not play much? Is it worth it in expense, time and psyche? Or given the option in hindsight would RPL have been better solely for the minutes? Sorry for the wordiness and do not intend to be pretentious here. I am hoping for honest banter now that the system is about to blow up again this June after we thought it was settled. What would you do and why/why not? Thank you My opinion -- pick based on coach and also where she is going to get the most playing time. What is the point in being in the best GDA/ECNL/RPL team if you're just going to sit on the bench? Each league has it owns pros/cons, but you have to do what works best for your daughter and allows her to grow as a player. She also has to decide what it is she wants to get out of soccer? Does she wanna play HS? College? Is she hoping to get invited to Regional and Nat'l events? or does she just want to play for fun? You are right there is no right or wrong answer and with so many options in May its even harder, but let her make this decision on her own, she will be happier in the long run.
|
|
|
Post by zizou on Mar 28, 2017 8:48:05 GMT -5
Could not agree more with SoccerMom. You have to play in matches to improve. The whole "you have to train with the best to be the best" thing only goes so far if you never play in actual matches. This is why clubs loan players to other clubs. They all recognize that even if the level of play is a notch or two below their first team, players need to be in matches regularly to get better. You have to be able to translate what you learn in training to matches. Not to mention the end game for most club youth players in the USA will be getting IDed for college. How can you get IDed by a college coach if you are sitting on the bench most of the time? If you get the last 10 minutes of a match at best? Prove yourself at the level at which you get the most match time and let the chips fall where they may. If a player dominates at one level that will be noticed. Clubs are opportunistic that way.
|
|
|
Post by Soccerhouse on Mar 28, 2017 9:34:32 GMT -5
Was just going to post the same thing as zizouYea, its great and all to train with the best 4 times a week, but don't let the system you fool ya, kids have to and want to play in games. Investigate and research on the coaches, how have they handled large teams in the past and ask about their substitution methods/plans. The sub rules in DA absolutely suck and not sure why this sport is so obsessed with no subs at youth levels. Are we developing players or coaches? I have yet to see a coach understand how to manage a game properly in DA and actually use subs to their advantage. (yes total over exaggeration, but you get the point). The 6th man in basketball is the perfect example, great teams are about depth on their rosters not just the starting 11. I see it too often, where coaches play the 4-5 weaker players always together vs mixing them up with top group. When mixed in with the top group, they fit in perfectly, but when all on the field together of course you start to see issues. Roster management is a big issue and with Sub rules many can't manage it and become obsessed with winning a meaningless game on a Sunday in south Florida vs giving the 14th player on the roster an opportunity to play with the first 11 and possibly make a name for themselves in front of an new US scout that is not familiar with the player pool. There is something to be said though, about a kid making a roster and being the 18th player and then busting their A** to make that starting 11. Thats what competition is about, and why kids should play. Challenge themselves everyday and work their butts off to get better every day. Love it when a coach actually rewards kids for this. Had a coach last season that in fact recognized the effort of these types of kids and by the end of the season, those bottom bench players ended up being top 4-5 players on the roster, because they worked hard and the coach rewarded them etc. Thats what it is about!! However, sorry for being negative, but I've seen the opposite usually more, regardless of how well a kid performs and trains, coach refuses to give them a true consistent shot. I'm not joking, I've seen kids play 5-10 minutes a game and perform expceptionaly with constant production, and not be rewarded. Every week and state cup/regionals etc, same story, kid didn't get in the game for any meaningful minutes. It takes a special kid to work their a** of for 2 years and not be rewarded for it and then mentally want to stick with it. Its really hard for them to continue to have the fight left to do it again. Kids are mentally and physically exhausted. I'm sure this is what sepeartes the MJs, Lebrons, Phelps from the rest of us -- they didn't except failure as an option. Its the hardest thing in life to overcome and its early life lessons for some young kids to grasp.
|
|
|
Post by forsythsd on Mar 28, 2017 12:50:25 GMT -5
Go for the minutes. Kids need to contribute. Their confidence and passion depend on it.
|
|
|
Post by Strikermom on Mar 28, 2017 13:30:10 GMT -5
So I had this question, is 1st division RPL going away for girls now?? Like we have all been saying, way too many options next year.
|
|
|
Post by spectator on Mar 28, 2017 22:41:51 GMT -5
Thank you in advance for indulging me on this scenario. This is almost like an essay question without a right answer but am hopeful you will not be bashful with opinions and perspectives. Assumption: We have a current 2003 Player who is playing RPL for a big club. And current 2nd year ODP for what it's worth Going Forward: Let's assume she is a likely bubble player for DA or ECNL pending on the club she tries out for with half a chance of being selected on either again pending the club and numbers. What are the considerations that should be taken into account? Obviously it is up to her, not me. But let's assume she is open to any offer she may get. I want to be able to give her the knowledge necessary to make an informed decision. A club that has DA, ECNL and RPL. Is a girl who at best is a bubble player wise to go with a DA offer or in this scenario consider ECNL solely due to the minutes she would be getting? And for that matter, can RPL arguably be the correct choice if playing time was among the top priorities? Other considerations? Development. I am thinking with a club that has DA (players 1-18 or so at the club), ECNL (players 19-36), RPL (players 37-54ish) Are you better off sitting on the bench potentially if you are player 18 or player 33 or playing many more minutes as player 40 at this club? And if you are playing those minutes let's say at RPL, is development stunted because no club can go 40-50 players deep and still be training with the quality needed for development? Also, is this the third best coach at a club that would be RPL? Looking another way, would it be more beneficial to try out (assuming an offer would occur) at a club without BOTH DA and ECNL? As stated above, if a club only has DA or ECNL not both you can then be among players 19-36 (RPL) and thus be training with better players and theoretically have a club's better coach? Or would some of you say get the best offer you can get, if the girl was interested, and potentially ride the bench for most of every game if that offer is at player 18 at a club? She has the club's highest licensed coach, and is training with the club's best players but again not getting minutes come competitive game time. I know some of you can speak to this now as you have girls on ECNL that do not play much? Is it worth it in expense, time and psyche? Or given the option in hindsight would RPL have been better solely for the minutes? Sorry for the wordiness and do not intend to be pretentious here. I am hoping for honest banter now that the system is about to blow up again this June after we thought it was settled. What would you do and why/why not? Thank you I'm going to ask the obvious here - what is the end goal in this scenario? College looks? Being on the best team possible? Playing time for your kid? You're talking about an 8th grader I assume? Lots of time and soccer left - or not left for her so it's a delicate decision. Obvious question #2 - what does SHE want - not you - her? Is she happy with her current team and teammates? What are her goals? I'll echo what many others here have advised - go for the coaching not the level. We have friends in RPL and they hate their coach - many girls are quitting next year because of him. None have college looks - all have been miserable - but they are RPL - yay rah go! We had a player leave our team mid season back at U14 to go play ECNL because they were promised playing time and college looks. She played less than half their games and has zero colleges talking to her. But she was 'ECNL' and daddy is so proud he posts about it all the time. (rolling eyes) It's all about the coach and the team chemistry - so again - what is the end goal here that DA or ECNL could solve? Not being snarky or rude - honestly asking
|
|
|
Post by neymarscleats on Mar 29, 2017 10:19:33 GMT -5
Thank you spectator. I appreciate the honest perspective and questions. It is not about Daddy and me wearing a T-shirt stating my child is on ECNL or DA etc. I know many parents like that and most of them are my friends on the various sidelines I have been a part of! I know come tryout time I will ask her and she will then ask me to explain the options so she can make a decision. Since I have to devise a strategy logistically since tryout time is limited due to distance and concurrent tryout times, we together formulate the best way to work out her strategy for that week. Now that the options have grown at her club and Georgia I am sincerely interested in perspectives to consider purely just to communicate to her. If SHE wants to go for DA and ECNL and subsequently is selected A.(she has to choose the club/coach she wants to tryout for) and B.(she has to know the consequences for that choice - which can ultimately be playing time, more travel away from non-soccer friends as she goes into high school, potential high school ball, ODP etc. etc. etc.)
She loves the sport, she trains privately, wants to play in High School and bottom line wants to play when the games happen on weekends. She is not even thinking about college and neither am I. It is about her grades, not soccer at this point. But I do know she does not want to flounder on a team that is not going to make her better because they are not better nor more dedicated to her team and development than she is. She does not think of the results of games but I have noticed she develops when she is training with/against girls that are better, of course.
So in a long winded answer to your question, there is no end goal in this scenario. She is taking it year by year and I provide information and let her steer the ship. I sign on to pay and drive and cheer. The main point to be engaging this forum is to collect information and perspectives among the parents and coaches here so I can present to her the considerations and help her make an informed decision. I know people will not be bashful here to give their opinions based on their experience and/or knowledge.
I am most concerned about that "Player 18" or "Player 35" scenario. There are parents on this forum that have kids on that bubble and wonder what are the advantages and disadvantages to consider. To put it bluntly, the 20th best player at TH or CF is dramatically different treatment than the 20th best player at UFA or AFU.
|
|
|
Post by spectator on Mar 30, 2017 6:53:35 GMT -5
To answer the "player 18" question
If the training is vastly superior then the higher level will help development even if she is that last player
If not - the game is the best teacher so get on a team where she will have the most playing time and chance to develop her decision making and creativity on the field in real time game situations
The challenge is how do you find that out before tryouts!?
Good luck to you
|
|
|
Post by randomparent on Mar 30, 2017 8:33:21 GMT -5
I'm a big believer in giving kids the time and freedom to choose a variety of activities. I'd have a hard time steering my kids towards DA especially at the youngest age groups. I see the DA players at the high school watching the games because they can't play. I see the high school teammates who play ECNL looking to move down a level next year or quit altogether because they're tired of the travel. I see my kids try basketball, swimming or cross country and love them (and enjoy soccer even more when the seasons begin). They still love the occasional out of town tournament since it's a novelty for them rather than a once or twice a month obligation. It's hard to do other stuff at the highest levels of soccer so that means CI/Athena A level for our family which is just fine with me. If I had a younger girl who really wanted to focus on soccer, I'd likely lean towards ECNL, probably at a club that does not have DA. If money or the amount of travel is an issue, I'd look at RPL next. There are occasionally RPL teams at smaller clubs which can be an option if you want a club's top coach and want to be more of a priority to the club. You could have written that post for me. My kids love other sports, school takes a lot of time, they love playing in the neighborhood and being kids. But they are also competitive. Life is full of trade offs.
|
|