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Post by Soccerhouse on Apr 3, 2017 12:34:54 GMT -5
Charles Boehm from the soccerwire.com said this is normal and comparable results to previous such matchups.
Are you as surprised as I?
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Post by oldboy on Apr 3, 2017 18:09:39 GMT -5
Not really surprised. The old Atlanta Beat women's professional team scrimmaged local boy's teams fairly regularly and almost always got beat.
Not a knock on the women at all, but once puberty kicks in the physical advantages just stack up on the side of the boys.
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Post by soccerfan30 on Apr 4, 2017 7:13:00 GMT -5
This is a typical result, the USWNT has scrimmaged U16+ boys teams throughout the years and they typically lose to the boys teams.
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Post by Soccerhouse on Apr 4, 2017 7:26:28 GMT -5
I guess we are talking about 2001, and their are some big, strong, talented, fast boys. The boys must overwhelm them with physicality and speed. Would love to see a game like that in person.
Would be a better watch than some of the crap teams they play in those exhibition games.
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Post by alacrity174 on Apr 4, 2017 13:51:30 GMT -5
What does this say about the standard of the USWNT though, if a group of U15 (14 & 15 year olds), can beat easily the cream of the crop of US women? It does kind of put into perspective the demands for equal pay etc with the USMNT.
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Post by mightydawg on Apr 4, 2017 14:03:17 GMT -5
The fact that a group of talented teenage boys can beat the USWNT does not have anything to do with equal pay. I suspect the same result would hold true in basketball, hockey, track and field, etc. where both sexes compete. Pay is an entirely separate issue. If pay was based on results, the women's team would be much better paid than the men's team. However, pay should have more to do with what each team is bringing in ticket sales, TV contracts, apparel, etc.
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Post by alacrity174 on Apr 4, 2017 14:08:06 GMT -5
The fact that a group of talented teenage boys can beat the USWNT does not have anything to do with equal pay. I suspect the same result would hold true in basketball, hockey, track and field, etc. where both sexes compete. Pay is an entirely separate issue. If pay was based on results, the women's team would be much better paid than the men's team. However, pay should have more to do with what each team is bringing in ticket sales, TV contracts, apparel, etc. So what you are saying is equality isn't equal, equal pay for the same job, but the USWNT can't compete with U15 boys, let alone an MLS team so the NWSL is in essence on a par talent wise to U15 RPL teams, possibly U15 NPL but I honestly think that is a push. So what exactly does the USWNT bring to the table soccer wise?
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Post by Soccerhouse on Apr 4, 2017 14:41:57 GMT -5
Yea its not clear who played for the Dallas team. Looks like they have 8 2001s on their u16 squad. Which is 1st place in the age group. My gut is they have another top group of 2001s playing in seperate league and the team that scrimmaged was a mix of their best 2001s. I'm still surprised that this is routine.
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Post by mightydawg on Apr 5, 2017 9:58:45 GMT -5
The fact that a group of talented teenage boys can beat the USWNT does not have anything to do with equal pay. I suspect the same result would hold true in basketball, hockey, track and field, etc. where both sexes compete. Pay is an entirely separate issue. If pay was based on results, the women's team would be much better paid than the men's team. However, pay should have more to do with what each team is bringing in ticket sales, TV contracts, apparel, etc. So what you are saying is equality isn't equal, equal pay for the same job, but the USWNT can't compete with U15 boys, let alone an MLS team so the NWSL is in essence on a par talent wise to U15 RPL teams, possibly U15 NPL but I honestly think that is a push. So what exactly does the USWNT bring to the table soccer wise? I don't even understand what you are saying. My comment is very simple--the pay for the USWNT should be based upon the money that they bring in to US Soccer. If they are bringing in more money than the USMNT, they should be paid more than the USMNT. If they are bringing in less money than the USMNT, they should be paid less. If bringing in the same amount of money, they should be paid the same.
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Post by alacrity174 on Apr 5, 2017 13:47:44 GMT -5
So what you are saying is equality isn't equal, equal pay for the same job, but the USWNT can't compete with U15 boys, let alone an MLS team so the NWSL is in essence on a par talent wise to U15 RPL teams, possibly U15 NPL but I honestly think that is a push. So what exactly does the USWNT bring to the table soccer wise? I don't even understand what you are saying. My comment is very simple--the pay for the USWNT should be based upon the money that they bring in to US Soccer. If they are bringing in more money than the USMNT, they should be paid more than the USMNT. If they are bringing in less money than the USMNT, they should be paid less. If bringing in the same amount of money, they should be paid the same. What exactly don't you understand? The level of play is clearly lightyears behind for womens soccer and this wasn't a 1 off but consistent. The only reason the USWNT pulls in any money is because people are somehow brainwashed into thinking the standard is much higher than it is in reality, NASL is superior product talent wise to NWSL and the USWNT.
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Post by mightydawg on Apr 5, 2017 14:09:44 GMT -5
I don't even understand what you are saying. My comment is very simple--the pay for the USWNT should be based upon the money that they bring in to US Soccer. If they are bringing in more money than the USMNT, they should be paid more than the USMNT. If they are bringing in less money than the USMNT, they should be paid less. If bringing in the same amount of money, they should be paid the same. What exactly don't you understand? The level of play is clearly lightyears behind for womens soccer and this wasn't a 1 off but consistent. The only reason the USWNT pulls in any money is because people are somehow brainwashed into thinking the standard is much higher than it is in reality, NASL is superior product talent wise to NWSL and the USWNT. Equating level of play to worth is an absurd argument. Are you going to sit on the "Level of Play Board" and decide if the level of play is sufficiently beautiful to earn a pay check? Sports is entertainment. The goal of entertainment is to put butts in the seats. The USWNT has put butts in the seats and has won the World Cup, the Olympics, etc. The USMNT has not reached the semi-final of the World Cup since 1930 and the best finish in modern times was the quarterfinals. THe USMNT U23s did not qualify for the Olympics in Brazil. The USWNT is at the top level of world soccer when competing against other countries. The USMNT is not at the top level of world soccer.
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Post by soccerfan30 on Apr 5, 2017 16:26:19 GMT -5
There was an extensive article in the WSJ or NY Times a year ago adressing the men's v womens soccer equal pay dispute. It was pretty extensive but the ultimate point was the Men's WC brings in higher revenue, sponsorships and advertising dollars and that is reflected in the difference in pay. How come WNBA players dont make the same as NBA players? USMNT players play almost three times as many qualifying games vs the women (16 v 5).
The product doesn't always determine a person's value...take the world's best Opera Singer and compare them to Miley Cyrus. One is vastly more talented than the other but the inferior product makes millions of dollars a year and is less talented. That argument doesn't hold water.
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Post by paterfamilias on Apr 5, 2017 17:31:19 GMT -5
Speaking of pay and the USWNT, it looks like an agreement has been reached per the WSJ: "Under the new agreement, which lasts through 2021, covering the 2019 World Cup and the 2020 Olympics, the soccer federation will pay NWSL salaries for national team players who will commit to playing in the league, improve the quality of travel, give the players the rights to market their likenesses, provide higher pay for participation in national team games, as well as the opportunity to win more bonus money, plus additional support for maternity and child care. The two sides declined to release specific details of the compensation increases, though the women will get the same per diem pay as the men do. " Full article behind a paywall: www.wsj.com/articles/womens-national-team-reaches-deal-with-u-s-soccer-1491413168?tesla=y
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Post by alacrity174 on Apr 6, 2017 10:11:52 GMT -5
What exactly don't you understand? The level of play is clearly lightyears behind for womens soccer and this wasn't a 1 off but consistent. The only reason the USWNT pulls in any money is because people are somehow brainwashed into thinking the standard is much higher than it is in reality, NASL is superior product talent wise to NWSL and the USWNT. Equating level of play to worth is an absurd argument. Are you going to sit on the "Level of Play Board" and decide if the level of play is sufficiently beautiful to earn a pay check? Sports is entertainment. The goal of entertainment is to put butts in the seats. The USWNT has put butts in the seats and has won the World Cup, the Olympics, etc. The USMNT has not reached the semi-final of the World Cup since 1930 and the best finish in modern times was the quarterfinals. THe USMNT U23s did not qualify for the Olympics in Brazil. The USWNT is at the top level of world soccer when competing against other countries. The USMNT is not at the top level of world soccer. Interesting that you don't believe level of skill to worth isn't applicable, would you pay the AC tech in the middle of summer who came to fix your AC the same even if 1 was fully skilled and the other with no certifications? The NWSL is not a self supporting entity both US Soccer and MLS pay money to NWSL to support it, even the best of the US women's players are off to europe to play in their leagues rather than stay in a 10 team league here in the US. Add in that the USWNT is routinely beaten by U15/16 boys teams how can you say the USWNT is at the Top level of world soccer, I will agree that they are or at least were until recently, at the pinnacle of Womens soccer but if the pinnacle of one group is constantly losing to schoolboy teams then they clearly are not at the top level of world soccer. To argue differently really isn't being honest with yourself. If you look to other sports is there a women's team that is on parity with the male version? We can go round and round on the money side however the point really is that the USWNT isn't as good as portrayed and this is borne out by the results on the field.
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Post by alacrity174 on Apr 6, 2017 10:17:33 GMT -5
There was an extensive article in the WSJ or NY Times a year ago adressing the men's v womens soccer equal pay dispute. It was pretty extensive but the ultimate point was the Men's WC brings in higher revenue, sponsorships and advertising dollars and that is reflected in the difference in pay. How come WNBA players dont make the same as NBA players? USMNT players play almost three times as many qualifying games vs the women (16 v 5). The product doesn't always determine a person's value...take the world's best Opera Singer and compare them to Miley Cyrus. One is vastly more talented than the other but the inferior product makes millions of dollars a year and is less talented. That argument doesn't hold water. We can disagree on the monetary reimbursement, but to say the argument doesn't hold water is not quite true. Personally I can't stand Miss Cyrus, however commercially she is very sucessful and has a much larger paying audience than any opera singer. Football players are compensated much better than most soccer players, is this fair considering the amount of games, playing time and skill level. I don't believe so but this is the reality of the situation where the NFL is more profitible than MLS right now, however MLS is a self sufficient league, whereas the women's equivalent is not. There are a myriad of reasons for this but in sports the main reason is the product you put out and in reality NWSL is an inferior product to MLS and even USL and NASL.
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Post by rifle on Apr 6, 2017 16:37:52 GMT -5
I'm a little surprised by the result, tbh. But I don't have a hard time believing that a (MLS affiliated) DA team is a bunch of boys in Men's bodies. Faster and stronger than any women at that point.
To me it says FC Dallas academy is teaching those boys to utilize their tools against a strong organized opponent.
I'd be interested in seeing this scrimmage.
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Post by Soccerhouse on Apr 6, 2017 17:18:53 GMT -5
Here is an example of the size difference of one player
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Post by Soccerhouse on Apr 7, 2017 8:16:00 GMT -5
It would be very interesting to watch that game when the USWNT can't just rely on speed to beat and out work players. Would love to see how the USWNT plays when they are out matched from a physical perspective - do they move the ball around? quick touches, and keep the ball on the surface or do they still try to force everything to fast attacking players
Thats what happened in the 2nd half last night, they stopped passing the ball and it was all about the individual player trying to run by the Russians. Lloyd looked frustrated with the youngsters not passing the ball.
No question Rose Lavelle can ball, she looked good in the first half, but as the game progressed in my opinion her and Pugh kept getting more selfish. Dunn could have scored 25 goals last night if she understood the offside rule.
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Post by Soccerhouse on Apr 10, 2017 7:25:41 GMT -5
Does make you wonder about the quality of some of the USWNT competition then, Russia for example. They sure do make it easy for the US women, girls can receive a ball, and literally turn 360 degrees and there still isn't any pressure on the ball. The same is true for any balls played into space, no Russians anywhere near the ball.
Not sure what the US gains by playing games like this, other than to CAP younger players and fill the stat sheets with goals.
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Post by soccerfan30 on Apr 10, 2017 10:09:34 GMT -5
There are only about 4 or 5 teams that can give the USWNT a competitive game but they can't play them all the time. Plus they need these cream puff games to get new players some playing time and try out different tactics.
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