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Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2017 9:10:57 GMT -5
Is the GA United 02 team a case study for what is wrong with soccer in America.
Great youth team, that came out of nowhere to become the best team in their age group in their division. However, now they find themselves as the younger half of the 01/02 age group, and from it sounds like, the players all went separated ways to play on various DA.
How is this good?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2017 9:20:35 GMT -5
I can add to this, that its not just as simple as the top 5 players can move on and continue with DA. They were the "perfect" team, a bunch of kids that complemented each other extremely well, and none were bigger than the team. I'm sure thats exactly what happened though, 3 to 5 remained on with UFA DA, with many kicked to the curb. All were quality kids.
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Post by footy on Jun 9, 2017 9:54:11 GMT -5
If the kids wanted to stay together, could most of them have gone to the UFA 02 RPL/NL team and continue their dynasty?
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Post by Soccerhouse on Jun 9, 2017 10:26:27 GMT -5
I guess in theory they could, but I'm sure once you start talking about level of play, distances to practices and sacrifices made for soccer, everyone makes their own individual decisions. In addition, ultimate, I'm not sure they had that kind of power to stick together. I'm sure the goal of UFA was to try to keep that GA United 02 team together in some capacity for the following year when they were the older half, but its hard to tell kids to sit back and wait a year, your time will come again...... I assumed a few would make Atlanta United, but haven't heard much. Most of us will have to wait until the rosters are released middle of the summer.
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Post by soccerb0y on Jun 9, 2017 11:41:35 GMT -5
The mixed DA age groups will lead to a lot of instability for a number of years for most players. Younger players trying to find a DA team that wants them, older players trying to get on the best DA team available, everyone of every age trying to make ATL Utd. It means a lot of inter club/League movement every year.
With that sort of movement will players develop ? Depends on how individual players gel as a new team, how good the coaching turns out to be. Are DA mixed age groups a great idea ? Possibly not if you believe stability is how individuals develop, but Ga UTD 2002 proved that when those elements come together (good kids, solid players, great coach) it only takes a year to have success. Point is....if your kid is at a team for only a year because of the DA age groups, there is hope for development for every player at whichever DA/ECNL/SRPL team they find themselves on. GA Utd is the proof.
3 Ga Utd 2002 made Atl 2002 team.
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Post by Futsal Gawdess on Jun 9, 2017 11:46:02 GMT -5
I guess in theory they could, but I'm sure once you start talking about level of play, distances to practices and sacrifices made for soccer, everyone makes their own individual decisions. In addition, ultimate, I'm not sure they had that kind of power to stick together. I'm sure the goal of UFA was to try to keep that GA United 02 team together in some capacity for the following year when they were the older half, but its hard to tell kids to sit back and wait a year, your time will come again...... I assumed a few would make Atlanta United, but haven't heard much. Most of us will have to wait until the rosters are released middle of the summer. I heard 4 migrated to AU.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2017 12:26:06 GMT -5
I've heard mixed opinions on that -- as a coach told us, he makes decisions what is in the best interest of the team etc.
But don't kid yourself, teams that don't win, don't play in the playoffs and hence don't get the same level of exposure. I think its about who consistently produces the best teams. Best teams is a sign of a combination of coaching and players.
But I also agree, DA seems to be more about individuals than the team. I think this hurts US soccer in long run, as this is a team sport. I"ve seen many great players that have no idea how to play within a team structure.
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Post by gaprospects on Jun 9, 2017 12:48:01 GMT -5
In the long-term, DA clubs and MLS clubs will be judged on the players who graduate from their systems. Unless your team is making a very deep playoff run like Georgia United did in 2015, the team success isn't going to be remembered as much. Of course, that GA United team had some incredible individual players as well.
For this year's GA United 02's, there was never going to be a scenario in which that team could stay together. It's disappointing, but it's expected. Even in the past at GA United, the older birth-year dominated the rosters, which led to pretty high turnover year-to-year. At Concorde it's generally even higher. And that's before you even take into account new players coming from other clubs.
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Post by nani17 on Jun 9, 2017 13:02:17 GMT -5
I couldn't agree more gaprospects.
Maybe that's what the OP meant by having the 2 year band - these things are going to happen?
Realistically, some of this team have a chance for AU or UFA 01 DA.
Then, AU 2002 team CF 01 Da team UFA 01 RPL team UFA 02 RPL team Another clubs 01 or 02 ECNL team etc...
It would be impossible to move the whole team into the 01 UFA team as 02's. Once you have the top 3, 4 5 kids pulled to DA teams, as good as that team was in one year, they are pretty gutted and need to make sure they end up in the right spot for themselves.
Moving the location from summoner to fowler/s. forsyth makes it harder for anyone below 285 to get to as well.
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Post by footy on Jun 9, 2017 13:06:54 GMT -5
Maybe there's also a lesson to be learned on what can go very right in American soccer--how do you replicate that team's success? If it's coach-dependent, have all of Robin's teams been that successful? Is there something particular about that group of kids that coaches can learn from when choosing players?
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Post by soccerb0y on Jun 9, 2017 14:02:19 GMT -5
Maybe there's also a lesson to be learned on what can go very right in American soccer--how do you replicate that team's success? If it's coach-dependent, have all of Robin's teams been that successful? Is there something particular about that group of kids that coaches can learn from when choosing players? The kids on that team played for each other. As someone mentioned, no one was bigger than the team. They improved individually because they all bought into that idea of "team" first. The coaching was top notch, the kids coachable, both of them never let individuals rule. An individual player has to be really really really great to trump team ethos. You have to have the right attitude to go along with the talent. Perhaps thats the lesson.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2017 14:23:52 GMT -5
I think soccerb0y nailed it -- team bought in to the concept of a team. Hard work and dedication made them special along with a coach that really helped push them along and play a very attractable style of soccer.
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Post by Soccerhouse on Jun 9, 2017 14:36:31 GMT -5
I couldn't agree more gaprospects. Maybe that's what the OP meant by having the 2 year band - these things are going to happen? Realistically, some of this team have a chance for AU or UFA 01 DA. Then, AU 2002 team CF 01 Da team UFA 01 RPL team UFA 02 RPL team Another clubs 01 or 02 ECNL team etc... It would be impossible to move the whole team into the 01 UFA team as 02's. Once you have the top 3, 4 5 kids pulled to DA teams, as good as that team was in one year, they are pretty gutted and need to make sure they end up in the right spot for themselves. Moving the location from summoner to fowler/s. forsyth makes it harder for anyone below 285 to get to as well. Will the UFA 01/02 team train out at South Forysth now?
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Post by footy on Jun 9, 2017 14:54:26 GMT -5
Will the UFA 01/02 team train out at South Forysth now? Yes. Robin's UFA-Norcross RPL team will train at South Forsyth right before DA practices.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2017 14:57:18 GMT -5
Did the 01 UFA-Norcross RPL team keep most of the norcross players or did the roster get filled with Fowler players since forsyth lost the RPL slot, and norcross gained the RPL slot... even though Forsyth is 3 goals better as a team?
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Post by diceshooter on Jun 9, 2017 20:11:04 GMT -5
Why do posters "gush" over the Georgia United '02 team, yet don't give any credit to the Concorde '03 team from last year. The Concorde '03 team actually had a better record (19 wins, 2 ties, 3 losses) than the Georgia United '02 team (16 wins, 5 ties, 3 losses) and NEVER lost to Atlanta United (3-0) while Georgia United '02 lost to AU (2-1).
I recognize and appreciate what the GU '02 team did--great kids, excellent coach, great team--but I think you all should recognize and appreciate that Karl Haggon did just as good a job as Robin Dixon, and the Concorde '03 kids (who were also shunned by AU) also had a "legendary" season.
I don't think you can talk about one without the other.
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Post by soccerb0y on Jun 9, 2017 20:37:33 GMT -5
Why do posters "gush" over the Georgia United '02 team, yet don't give any credit to the Concorde '03 team from last year. The Concorde '03 team actually had a better record (19 wins, 2 ties, 3 losses) than the Georgia United '02 team (16 wins, 5 ties, 3 losses) and NEVER lost to Atlanta United (3-0) while Georgia United '02 lost to AU (2-1). I recognize and appreciate what the GU '02 team did--great kids, excellent coach, great team--but I think you all should recognize and appreciate that Karl Haggon did just as good a job as Robin Dixon, and the Concorde '03 kids (who were also shunned by AU) also had a "legendary" season. I don't think you can talk about one without the other.
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Post by Soccerhouse on Jun 9, 2017 20:38:33 GMT -5
True for sure - what both accomplished this year was pretty incredible.
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Post by soccerb0y on Jun 9, 2017 20:42:34 GMT -5
That's an awesome record for sure. Out of curiosity, how many of that 03 team are returning to Concorde, how many headed to Atld Utd, how many cut Atl Utd 03 are replacing Concorde 03 players from last year.
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Post by rifle on Jun 9, 2017 22:02:28 GMT -5
It is what it is...
For DA level players, I think the difference maker is coaching. On the other forum, I've seen some (clearly spurned) "they downgraded" type comments about UFA's DA team selections. But we need to wait and see.
Based on recent success, if you told me Dixon favors "team first players who happen to be ballers", then I absolutely believe it - because that perfectly describes the one player I know who made his team.
Our high school team will miss this guy.. A playmaker, as well one who can take a game by the throat. I'm really looking forward to watching that new team play.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 10, 2017 9:47:48 GMT -5
There is no question the 2 should be mentioned together.
And yes the Concorde and Ga United teams should be mentioned in the same breath. Both had 2nd picks of the players that got cut from Atl Untied and dominated their divisions. Ga United's 02s were no doubt more of a team, while Concordes 03's relied heavily on 2 very special players. Kids were nasty. Will be interesting to see how they play without those 2, as they were that special. The Ga United 02s lost a few games, but got extremely unlucky in a few of those games, and clearly were still the better side in defeat. The Concorde 03's didn't not play like the stereotypical concorde team, they pinged it around nicely and utilized their top 2 players to a T. They honestly steamrolled teams.
Might be controversial, but it was clear watching the Atlanta United 03s and 02s that they were not well coached. The 03s got worse as the year progressed, and the 02s while wining a handful of games and looking good from win/loss perspective, did not play attractive soccer. They forced everything through a few players and liked the big ball. They did not look well coached, and you questioned their training sessions when you watched them play. The 03s were literally a train wreck at the end of the spring, and it looks like the players got the blame. Bunch of BS in my opinion, yes, they made mistakes, but those kids still were adequate. maybe not future MLS superstars, but still coachable kids that a quality coach could work with. Just go look at the results from the fall to the spring, its shocking.
The entire thing is strange, I know kids that were cut, but the exact same style of player was retained on the younger age groups, so its very odd. Ga United's 03's had 2 to 3 players who are legit, and should have at least been invited to training sessions for further evaluations by the staff, they weren't.
DA was designed for the truly special talent, and expansion has watered it down for inclusion of the above average player. Atlanta United is clearly shifting to the truely special talent, and I expect much turnover on the younger teams has they approach that u15 age group.
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Post by rifle on Jun 10, 2017 11:40:31 GMT -5
(Snip) Might be controversial, but it was clear watching the Atlanta United 03s and 02s that they were not well coached. The 03s got worse as the year progressed, and the 02s while wining a handful of games and looking good from win/loss perspective, did not play attractive soccer. They forced everything through a few players and liked the big ball. They did not look well coached, and you questioned their training sessions when you watched them play. Totally agree. Friend of mine had a kid on the 02s. He has since been dropped, but I watched a handful of their games last year. The team had no apparent identity at all. Loads of talent but tactically empty.
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Post by soccerb0y on Jun 10, 2017 14:25:29 GMT -5
Did Atl Utd 03 coaches change mid season, wondering why the fall off in form. Is the thought in the post above that the kids came in at one level, received poor coaching and that led to the performance drop ? I never watched an Atl utd 03 game, but I did watch as they prepped for the Ga utd 03 game, by playing on their cell phones, joking around and hollering at one of their own playing for the 02's (He was one of the best players on the field BTW). Seems to me they were missing a whole lot of focus, which was shocking to see. Is kids not being able to self motivate a coaching deal ? For me, kids at an elite academy should have been able to figure out for themselves that was not the way to get ready for a game.
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