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Post by jash on Nov 19, 2017 16:32:49 GMT -5
Bracket | Date | Time | Home |
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| Away | Venue | Field |
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14U Athena D East | 2017-11-11 | 01:00 PM | Coastal Outrea - G14U | 0 | 26 | Ambush SC G04 White | Howard Coffin Park | 1 | 19U Classic III | 2017-10-07 | 01:00 PM | All-In FC Snellville - U19Sil... | 1 | 23 | Toombs County - B19U | Briscoe Park | 1 | 18U Athena C | 2017-11-18 | -- | Coastal Outreach - G18U | 0 | 21 | UFA Norcross 00G Red | TBD Athena | -- | 14U Athena D East | 2017-09-24 | 10:30 AM | Georgia Rush G2004 Cinza | 20 | 0 | Coastal Outrea - G14U | Stars Athletic Club | 2 | 14U Athena D East | 2017-10-14 | 01:00 PM | Coastal Outrea - G14U | 0 | 20 | HCU 04G Navy | Howard Coffin Park | 1 | 15U Classic V East II | 2017-09-23 | 03:00 PM | Liberty 03 - C V E | 1 | 20 | BPSC 03 Premier- B15U - C V E | Bluesprings Sports Ranch | 2 | 18U Athena C | 2017-10-22 | 01:00 PM | Coastal Outreach - G18U | 0 | 19 | SAF 2000 ELITE | Howard Coffin Park | 1 | 16U Classic V | 2017-09-23 | 03:00 PM | Richmond Hill - B16U Elite | 17 | 0 | Coastal Outreach - B16U | Devaul Henderson Park - RH | 1 | 13U Classic V West | 2017-10-01 | 02:30 PM | BFC - 05B Gold | 1 | 18 | NSA Hammers 13 | Dresden Park | 1 | 18U Athena C | 2017-10-15 | 01:00 PM | Coastal Outreach - G18U | 0 | 17 | Roswell Santos Blue 00 | Howard Coffin Park | 1 | 13U Classic III East | 2017-09-16 | 03:15 PM | BPSC 05 Elite - B13U | 16 | 0 | Ambush SC B05 White | Bryson Park | 3 | 16U Classic V | 2017-10-14 | 03:00 PM | NTH NASA 02 Royal | 16 | 0 | Coastal Outreach - B16U | Noonday Park | 01 | 18U Athena C | 2017-10-29 | 01:00 PM | Piedmont Soccer Academy -U18 ... | 16 | 0 | Coastal Outreach - G18U | Barrow County Leisure Services | 6 | 18U Athena C | 2017-11-11 | -- | Coastal Outreach - G18U | 0 | 16 | Piedmont Soccer Academy -U18 ... | TBD Athena | -- | 13U Classic V West | 2017-11-12 | 01:00 PM | BFC - 05B Gold | 0 | 16 | UFA South Georgia 05B Premier | Dresden Park | 1 | 13U Classic V West | 2017-11-11 | 10:30 AM | BFC - 05B Gold | 1 | 16 | MAYS Striker 05B White | Dresden Park | 1 |
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Post by fan on Nov 19, 2017 18:24:00 GMT -5
I would be embarrassed if my kids played for coaches that let their team run up the score like that. Practice your passing, move players into positions they're not used to, pull a player (or 2 or 3) off the field. You have to play who you're scheduled to play but you can do it with more class than those teams.
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Post by 04gparent on Nov 19, 2017 20:11:51 GMT -5
No one likes blowouts like this, however I have a daughter that plays for a team that sometimes, score a lot of goals... From my perspective, when a coach tells his/her players to work on spacing and passing you will actually score more goals because it will open the field even more. We are talking about 13 to 18 year olds not academy ages... I think we are making some big assumptions by saying the coaches/teams have no class... IMO...
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Post by fan on Nov 19, 2017 22:45:50 GMT -5
IMO the coach needs to tell the players to stop taking shots. And that's long before the score gets to 20-0 (let alone 26?!?).
There are skills they can work on during the game that don't involve running up the score. One of my kid's favorite coaches would send his team on the field after halftime one player short in some games. We weren't likely to ever see the team win by more than 6 or 8 goals but they got more out of the games than they would have otherwise.
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Post by TheMadOx on Nov 20, 2017 9:31:20 GMT -5
I'm not a fan of telling players to not score goals...however, I do want to make it a lot more difficult for them to do so...definitely take 2-3 players off the field...and play the players that don't get much playing time...only able to score off headers, etc...these scores are ridiculous.
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Post by jash on Nov 20, 2017 11:09:55 GMT -5
Mix up positions, require one-touch passing only, play shorthanded, require a full reset to the keeper anytime you cannot pass forward (when you make any negative passes) in the lead-up to scoring... there are tons of things you can do.
Games (and seasons) like that lead to players quitting the game, and in some cases also lead to the humiliated team getting frustrated enough to injure someone. It's all well and good to say the losing team should "work harder" and when you're talking about pro sports, I say go for it. But these are kids.
If anyone here is a parent at one of the winning clubs and would like to, they could ask the DOC or even the coach of the game in question to write up an explanation of why and how such things happen. I'm NOT asking them to defend themselves, and they obviously have no obligation to do so, but perhaps they would welcome the opportunity to give another perspective that we're missing.
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Post by Strikermom on Nov 20, 2017 14:13:29 GMT -5
I am good friends with the (UFA) 00 coach, and he tried to get the team to forfeit as they had already beaten them 13-0 earlier in the season. Coastal coach insisted on playing. He only took 11 girls to play in Brunswick, no one to sub off.
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Post by jkdub1 on Nov 20, 2017 16:45:41 GMT -5
I am good friends with the (UFA) 00 coach, and he tried to get the team to forfeit as they had already beaten them 13-0 earlier in the season. Coastal coach insisted on playing. He only took 11 girls to play in Brunswick, no one to sub off. Speaking of Coastal, those teams are getting slaughtered. Total club stats: GF 16 GA 323 (average GA is 10+ per game)! I appreciate what they're doing down there but I can't imagine being one of those kids, dressing out and traveling weekend after weekend, getting buried in goals. This is humiliating and sad to see.
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Post by soccerparent02 on Nov 20, 2017 17:27:04 GMT -5
It's not the teams job to stop scoring it's the other teams job to stop them.
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Post by fan on Nov 20, 2017 20:08:38 GMT -5
It's not the teams job to stop scoring it's the other teams job to stop them. It was probably pretty clear that the losing teams weren't able to stop them within the first 10 minutes of the games. While it's not a good situation for either team, the winning coach and team can choose to show good sportsmanship or choose to demolish. I know which one I'd choose but I'm also one of those parents who tries to get other parents to stop yelling insults at teenage refs. Unfortunately that's a losing battle too.
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Post by jash on Nov 20, 2017 20:37:13 GMT -5
It's not the teams job to stop scoring it's the other teams job to stop them. Do you honestly think this sentiment applies to a game that ends 26-0? In soccer, not American football. And these are children, not paid professionals.
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Post by TheMadOx on Nov 21, 2017 9:24:17 GMT -5
I am good friends with the (UFA) 00 coach, and he tried to get the team to forfeit as they had already beaten them 13-0 earlier in the season. Coastal coach insisted on playing. He only took 11 girls to play in Brunswick, no one to sub off. Sounds like your friend got frustrated that they didn't forfeit and had a "I told you so" session....even if you take 11....play only 9? Do something.
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Post by USoCcer on Nov 21, 2017 12:17:48 GMT -5
My daughter's team was on the positive side of one of the blowouts listed in this post. While it is certainly easy to say "practice your passing", "take people off the field", "only score from headers"...let's get slightly more realistic. First let me provide a little more color in regards to the blowout in question.
- It was an away game. Parents had to travel 5 to 6 hours to get there. Plus spend money for a hotel and dining. - The losing side only started the game with 8 players because according to a parent on the losing side "it was cold outside" - The losing side had a 9th player show up at halftime. - Are you really going to ask parents who drove 5 to 6 hours to sit around and watch 5 of their kids play against 8? While others who made the trip sit the bench? After driving 5 or 6 hours for a single soccer game? That would have gone over like a lead balloon. - So now we are practicing our passing and not shooting. At some point, when the other team can't keep up, I feel it's almost more degrading to sit back and pass the ball to each other. Or to constantly try to score off of headers alone. Or only play left footed. The other team knows what you are doing. It's not a secret. So what's so special about not scoring? - Having been on the losing side of blowouts previously as a parent, the continual passing, the playing back to the keeper, etc. is just as frustrating, and to me, more degrading, because it says "We could score if we wanted to, but we are just choosing not to".
Look, I get it. Nobody likes to sit and watch blowouts from a winning or a losing side. But it's kids sports. Things like that are going to happen. Heck, they even happen in the professional ranks from time to time on the grandest of stages (Germany - Brazil anyone). There is no easy solution and things like this are going to happen. The better solution would be for teams that don't have a chance of competing to look at getting out of the Select Soccer business. They may find more success in the Rec ranks.
Just my 0.02
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Post by soccerparent02 on Nov 21, 2017 13:20:32 GMT -5
My daughter's team was on the positive side of one of the blowouts listed in this post. While it is certainly easy to say "practice your passing", "take people off the field", "only score from headers"...let's get slightly more realistic. First let me provide a little more color in regards to the blowout in question.
- It was an away game. Parents had to travel 5 to 6 hours to get there. Plus spend money for a hotel and dining. - The losing side only started the game with 8 players because according to a parent on the losing side "it was cold outside" - The losing side had a 9th player show up at halftime. - Are you really going to ask parents who drove 5 to 6 hours to sit around and watch 5 of their kids play against 8? While others who made the trip sit the bench? After driving 5 or 6 hours for a single soccer game? That would have gone over like a lead balloon. - So now we are practicing our passing and not shooting. At some point, when the other team can't keep up, I feel it's almost more degrading to sit back and pass the ball to each other. Or to constantly try to score off of headers alone. Or only play left footed. The other team knows what you are doing. It's not a secret. So what's so special about not scoring? - Having been on the losing side of blowouts previously as a parent, the continual passing, the playing back to the keeper, etc. is just as frustrating, and to me, more degrading, because it says "We could score if we wanted to, but we are just choosing not to".
Look, I get it. Nobody likes to sit and watch blowouts from a winning or a losing side. But it's kids sports. Things like that are going to happen. Heck, they even happen in the professional ranks from time to time on the grandest of stages (Germany - Brazil anyone). There is no easy solution and things like this are going to happen. The better solution would be for teams that don't have a chance of competing to look at getting out of the Select Soccer business. They may find more success in the Rec ranks.
Just my 0.02
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Post by soccerparent02 on Nov 21, 2017 13:21:45 GMT -5
Thank you usoccer. These are my thoughts exactly .
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Post by jash on Nov 21, 2017 13:39:38 GMT -5
My daughter's team was on the positive side of one of the blowouts listed in this post. While it is certainly easy to say "practice your passing", "take people off the field", "only score from headers"...let's get slightly more realistic. First let me provide a little more color in regards to the blowout in question.
- It was an away game. Parents had to travel 5 to 6 hours to get there. Plus spend money for a hotel and dining. - The losing side only started the game with 8 players because according to a parent on the losing side "it was cold outside" - The losing side had a 9th player show up at halftime. - Are you really going to ask parents who drove 5 to 6 hours to sit around and watch 5 of their kids play against 8? While others who made the trip sit the bench? After driving 5 or 6 hours for a single soccer game? That would have gone over like a lead balloon. - So now we are practicing our passing and not shooting. At some point, when the other team can't keep up, I feel it's almost more degrading to sit back and pass the ball to each other. Or to constantly try to score off of headers alone. Or only play left footed. The other team knows what you are doing. It's not a secret. So what's so special about not scoring? - Having been on the losing side of blowouts previously as a parent, the continual passing, the playing back to the keeper, etc. is just as frustrating, and to me, more degrading, because it says "We could score if we wanted to, but we are just choosing not to".
Look, I get it. Nobody likes to sit and watch blowouts from a winning or a losing side. But it's kids sports. Things like that are going to happen. Heck, they even happen in the professional ranks from time to time on the grandest of stages (Germany - Brazil anyone). There is no easy solution and things like this are going to happen. The better solution would be for teams that don't have a chance of competing to look at getting out of the Select Soccer business. They may find more success in the Rec ranks.
Just my 0.02 Sorry, but this just smells like "We needed to get our money's worth" out of the game. I will NOT disagree that the club/team in question should be significantly demoted or even disbanded or moved to rec soccer. I will NOT disagree that it was a colossal waste of your time to drive there, waste time and money, and that you should be upset and complain to GA soccer and the opposing club about it. I will NOT even disagree that the other team can sense when you're not scoring and that carries its own level of degredation. But it is not more humiliating than being beaten 20-0 or 26-0 or whatever your score was. It's not, and you should not try to justify it as such. These are still children, not professionals. THEY did not choose the bracket. THEY did not choose to force you to drive 6 hours. They're children. Saying "things like that are going to happen" does not excuse it because it simply DOES NOT have to happen. Good coaching means knowing what to do in a situation like that to win with dignity and honor without humiliating children. My son was on the winning end of games that could easily have been 20-0 but his coaches always found a way to preserve the opponents' dignity. He was also a few times on the losing side of games that could easily have been 20-0 but NONE OF THOSE games went there. None. Because the adults acted like adults and remembered why we're all doing this. Good sportsmanship is a huge part of what we are supposed to be teaching these kids. Winning with grace, losing with grace, treating your opponents with dignity -- these are among some of the most important lessons I hope MY children got out of youth sports. Thankfully he had coaches along the way that agreed.
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Post by USoCcer on Nov 21, 2017 14:23:18 GMT -5
This just got interesting...
I can honestly say, that at no time did anyone feel that we needed to get our money's worth out of the game. Parents were not cheering like we won the World Cup. In fact, I can almost assure you that every single parent on the winning side would have preferred to save the lodging, dining, pet boarding expenses and NOT beat a team by a lopsided score line. But it happened. And as another poster said, you play the games you are assigned.
The point was made that "these are just children". I agree. But when do we let children start to experience negative emotions? I can guarantee you that I am often more upset about a bad math grade than my daughter. Those things roll off her like water off a ducks back. Since we are dealing with Select Soccer here, we need to remember that these children are at least 12. We aren't dealing with 8 and 9 year olds. These children have already experienced not making a team, not being invited to a party, or having friends quit talking to them. They are young adults. Not snowflakes.
You can win with dignity and treat your opponent with dignity and still have a lopsided score. You can. It's possible and it happened.
What would have been an acceptable score? 5-0? 8-0? How about we let the other team score so they could feel good about themselves?
All of the results listed in this post took place at the lower end of GA Soccer. Is it more acceptable to happen during a Classic 1 or Athena A game? There was an Athena A game that was 11-0.
I stand by my point that losing a game by "A lot" to "A little" isn't as traumatic to a child as it might be made out to be. Sounds like it is more of an adult issue.
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Post by jash on Nov 21, 2017 15:30:51 GMT -5
Your points are well taken, but I stand by my own point that my son played competitive soccer for 10 years and was in several games that could easily have ended 20-0 but in each one the coaches (and players) managed to keep it from getting to that point. And in hindsight I appreciate those coaches even more.
Winning a game 20-0 is almost always an attempt to send a message at the expense of the kids you are playing against. In the case of your coach it was a message to GA soccer and the other club that making people drive 5-6 hours and spend money to get a crappy game will not be tolerated. Your original post made that pretty clear (to me) even if you are walking it back a little in the followup.
How do you feel about mercy rules in high school sports? As the kids get older mercy rules do more than protect feelings -- they also protect against teenagers lashing out physically against other teenagers while they are being humiliated.
Again, these aren't pros.
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Post by jack4343 on Nov 21, 2017 19:31:03 GMT -5
I am good friends with the (UFA) 00 coach, and he tried to get the team to forfeit as they had already beaten them 13-0 earlier in the season. Coastal coach insisted on playing. He only took 11 girls to play in Brunswick, no one to sub off. Sounds like your friend got frustrated that they didn't forfeit and had a "I told you so" session....even if you take 11....play only 9? Do something. My kid plays on the UFA team (she didn't travel to this game) and they did all they could other than stop playing? By the way, the "children" are u18, so I wouldn't exactly call them kids. Our coach doesn't get frustrated about those things and did what he could. We already rescheduled due to their team not having enough players available. Our keeper played as striker as well. (She scored) I'll give you an example of how taking the foot off the throttle can hurt. Earlier in the season, we played a team that started with only 9 players so our captain voted to play with only 10 players. Well, we won by 3 goals and we will end up in a three way tie for first and we will lose on goal differencial. Luckily it won't be by one goal (it will be two) but by two but the fact we took it easy on a team almost made the difference in their season. Coastal is in a tough situation. They are in an area that doesn't have many if any teams to play so they joined select to have teams to play although they aren't competitive. They are in Athena C, and it's the lowest level in u18. They have allowed 130 goals in 9 games. They are an outreach program offering soccer for players that wouldn't be able to have it otherwise. I give them a lot of credit for trying.
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Post by jack4343 on Nov 22, 2017 6:41:04 GMT -5
I would also like to add that never once did our parents even cheer during the game once it became clear the game would become so lopsided. These games an not fun to watch and are actually quite cringe worthy. They also are not like other select games, good and bad. The game was delayed due to no one remembering to schedule a ref and the ref that came argued with our coach that u18 games are only 35 minute halves instead of 45. Their parents (all of them!) sat on the bench with their coach during the game. They also start each game with a prayer which i loved! Also, the players all shook hands afterwards which I don't always see anymore.
To close, it's not an easy situation. They are at the bottom level of select in every age level of I remember correctly and like I said before, their location makes it tough to even find teams to play locally. They are a new program trying to plant a seed of soccer in the community and it won't be easy but if it takes, it's another part of our country that gets exposed to soccer and that's always a good thing.
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Post by rifle on Nov 22, 2017 7:03:03 GMT -5
U19 CL1 UFA (second place in bracket) won back to back 14-0 games this fall. It's crazy that teams are misplaced at this age.
Seems like fewer layers of "elite" leagues and roster continuity rule enforcement would get this state organized again now that the age mandate adjustment has settled in.
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Post by infoguy on Nov 22, 2017 8:59:59 GMT -5
My daughter was on the winning end of 2 games against Coastal Carolina. U18 Athena C is is the lowest bracket. Whatever the lowest bracket, CC are it. Unfortunately for Coastal Carolina, C is the lowest.
Important to note, Coastal Carolina's mission is more to provide support for the players who are disadvantaged - rec ball would be appropriate for their skill level. But, rec apparently doesn't offer the social experience they were seeking through travel ball.
Here's their "about us" summary:
"The Coastal Outreach Soccer Program is a coordinated effort involving the Glynn County School System, Brunswick Recreation Department, and local certified coaches. COS was founded in 2004 with 15 players from the Head Start program. By 2005 the program was providing activities for 60 youth annually. COS started as in-house recreational level soccer program with 1st generation soccer players and coaches. Today the program has teams who have won Georgia Recreational and Parks District Titles in 2011 and 2012. Teams are now playing at the competitive level against clubs with more resources and larger player pool. Despite these odds, COS teams are very competitive and attract the attention of spectators as they travel in South Georgia and North Florida. Because COS is 1 out of 121 soccer clubs, who membership is underserved and under privilege youth."
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Post by USoCcer on Nov 22, 2017 10:44:44 GMT -5
Your points are well taken, but I stand by my own point that my son played competitive soccer for 10 years and was in several games that could easily have ended 20-0 but in each one the coaches (and players) managed to keep it from getting to that point. And in hindsight I appreciate those coaches even more. Winning a game 20-0 is almost always an attempt to send a message at the expense of the kids you are playing against. In the case of your coach it was a message to GA soccer and the other club that making people drive 5-6 hours and spend money to get a crappy game will not be tolerated. Your original post made that pretty clear (to me) even if you are walking it back a little in the followup. How do you feel about mercy rules in high school sports? As the kids get older mercy rules do more than protect feelings -- they also protect against teenagers lashing out physically against other teenagers while they are being humiliated. Again, these aren't pros. As a general rule I am not a fan of mercy rules. But I understand your point about injuries. Here's an article regarding mercy rules and their positives and negatives...
High School Basketball Mercy Rule
As a point of reference, my daughter has been on the receiving end of approximately 15 blowouts in her soccer career. She's 12. All of these took place during our Academy years when soccer is supposed to be about development and development only. Glad we were able to provide lots of development opportunities for those teams on those days.
I am much more in line with what zico said. You get beat badly, you use it as motivation to ensure it doesn't happen again.
Lastly, I am in agreement with rifle. There shouldn't be any blowouts if the teams were grouped properly. I don't envy the job of an Age Group Coordinator at all. Lots of politics I am sure at play in pressuring them to ensure that specific clubs get certain levels.
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Post by soccerparent02 on Nov 22, 2017 17:01:29 GMT -5
It is difficult to group teams especially when players team and club jump trying to get to a higher level. Except for a few teams in an age here or there the top players generally gravitate to the bigger CLUBS by u13.
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Post by touchlinedad on Nov 29, 2017 10:06:09 GMT -5
In reading this, I'm struck by how the discussion is about what the winning teams should have done. Maybe what we need to do is to work on how to prevent these kind of blowouts in the future. To that end, if a club like Coastal Carolina is struggling, maybe the larger clubs could offer to do some scrimmages in the off season where the coaches could stop play and identify the mistakes the players are making and work on those. Both teams could meet halfway at a neutral field to minimize travel costs. Or maybe Georgia Soccer could offer some coaching help and resources to the club coaches.
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Post by jash on Nov 29, 2017 15:54:17 GMT -5
In reading this, I'm struck by how the discussion is about what the winning teams should have done. Maybe what we need to do is to work on how to prevent these kind of blowouts in the future. To that end, if a club like Coastal Carolina is struggling, maybe the larger clubs could offer to do some scrimmages in the off season where the coaches could stop play and identify the mistakes the players are making and work on those. Both teams could meet halfway at a neutral field to minimize travel costs. Or maybe Georgia Soccer could offer some coaching help and resources to the club coaches. Nice idea, but have you ever been at a small club and tried to schedule scrimmages (or even U12 or below academy games) with larger clubs? The smaller clubs simply do not exist.
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Post by soccerlegacy on Nov 30, 2017 16:05:21 GMT -5
I'm surprised most of the lopsided scores weren't from that "girls" program located in Buckhead. :razz:
Still, I point I agree with the most is this being an issue GA Soccer needs to be at the forefront of, and address.
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