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Post by Soccerhouse on Mar 5, 2018 16:40:52 GMT -5
How off do you think I am on the cost to fully fund a Development Academy. I think the estimate below is extremely conservative, and the true cost is probably double!!! I'm sure I've left off some additional showcases/tourneys/costs. I've priced one showcase for the u15 to u19s. I left off the cost of fields/maintenance and other miscellaneous expenses. This also assumes a single coach per team, and didn't take into consideration additional staff would be happy to add them in. I assumed starting salary of u12 coach at 35,000 and up to 60,000 for u19s. I've heard rumors of salaries, but that's all.......could be way off base...... I assumed 24 players on u12, and 18 on the rest. I assumed 250 cost per head to take a 2 day trip (leave friday, return sunday). A bus rental probably is more expensive per head in reality. So for example, the trip total for the u12s is - $250 x 24 players x 2 trips = $12,000 this is not in the table, but a single friday to Sunday trip for an academy's u15 to u19 teams, could cost about $13,500. Hence, why its so hard to fully fund this, unless you are a rich MLS academy! Please offer suggestions! expense | Cost | u12 | u13 | u14 | u15 | u17 | u19 | Total | Coach $ | 35000 | 35,000 | 40,000 | 45,000 | 50,000 | 55,000 | 60,000 | | Uniform $ | 400 | 9,600 | 7,200 | 7,200 | 7,200 | 7,200 | 7,200 | | Showcase $ | 1200 | | | | 21,600 | 21,600 | 21,600 | | | | | | | | | | | Extra | trips | | | | | | | | | 250 | 12,000 | 22,500 | 22,500 | 31,500 | 31,500 | 31,500 | | | x's # of Trips | 2 | 5 | 5 | 7 | 7 | 7 | | Total | | 56,600 | 69,700 | 74,700 | 110,300 | 115,300 | 120,300 | 546,900 |
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Post by SoccerMom on Mar 5, 2018 17:32:48 GMT -5
Usually one coach handles both U13 & U14 since they travel together most often. U-12 doesn’t travel and the coach usually handles another older team that does. The remaining 2 teams are handled by a 3rd coach. At UFA the U13 and U14 coach are not the same. And the U12 doesn't travel like the other teams but I have heard they do some weekend trips. I don't think any of the teams have the same coach on the boys side?
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Post by Soccerhouse on Mar 5, 2018 17:34:45 GMT -5
Most u12 teams in Atlanta have taken 2 trips this year - One to Charlotte for preseason, and one for the futsal tourney in Feb.
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Post by Soccerhouse on Mar 5, 2018 18:15:37 GMT -5
Let me state also - I was modeling this off of Atlanta United vs other current clubs.
U12 coaches at other clubs are coaching up to 2 other non Da teams.
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Post by Futsal Gawdess on Mar 5, 2018 20:32:49 GMT -5
Usually one coach handles both U13 & U14 since they travel together most often. U-12 doesn’t travel and the coach usually handles another older team that does. The remaining 2 teams are handled by a 3rd coach. That's not always the case. At UFA, there are different coaches for the different age groups. The U12s across the DA landscape in Metro Atlanta sometimes do weekend trips to "scrimmage" other teams, as long as they get permission from the federation and it's no more than 3-4 hours away. Plus in some cases, the cost for the coach is actually more since some Head Coaches are also on the Director Level e.g. U13, U14, and U15 Coaches at UFA are Dir. of Future Academy, Dir. of Academy and DOC/Technical Director.
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Post by Futsal Gawdess on Mar 5, 2018 21:01:28 GMT -5
Soccerhouse, I can only speak to MLS academy averages based on the documents I've seen. The coaches at AU are paid a salary which is not included in this cost but they also do a myriad of other things at the club(outreach, scouting, promotions, etc.). The average cost to the club for a player at AU is $8,500 - $10,500 - $12,500 based on the age group. That covers the medical, nutrition, training, uniforms, shoes, medical, etc. That's for the U12s/U13s/U14s - U15s - U17s/U19s
Last year in DA this was the breakdown info from a TM friend of mine
Futsal 24 boys + 4 Coaches
Per Diem for the coaches @ $50/day for 3 days = $600 Van Rental @ $50/van/day for 3 days = $300 Snacks and drinks for the trip = $250 $75/nite/room for 6 rooms for players(4/room) for 2 nites = $900 $75/nite/room for 2 rooms for coaches(2/room) for 2 nites = $300 Meals @ approx. $10/meal/player for 3 meals(Friday dinner, Saturday Lunch/Dinner) = $720
So rough costs so far are at just over $3000 if my math is correct.
Assumptions - They stayed at a hotel that provided breakfast and the meals where buffet style, so the coaches just jumped in and ate with the boys. Also the boys were told to come to the bus with a packed lunch/snack for the trip and on the return, parents had to give $ to their kids to buy lunch/snack on the way back Sunday afternoon. This was an event sanctioned by US Soccer so not sure about fees for the showcase etc. Hope that gives a little insight into some of the costs behind the scenes.
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Post by Soccerhouse on Mar 5, 2018 21:22:03 GMT -5
I think to do it right, coaches need to be compensated as well so they don’t have to coach 3 teams to make ends meat. Head coach for one and assistant for another.
What’s the estimated cost for fields that a normal club would pay for usages/maintenance ?
And what is the typical cost of insurance clubs need for risk?
Just like I thought my numbers above are about 1/2 of reality for probably the gold standard.
But I’ll make another bare bones version with attempts to save money, still would come to probably $4,000 a player a year minimal.
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Post by youthsoccerdad on Mar 7, 2018 19:09:22 GMT -5
How off do you think I am on the cost to fully fund a Development Academy. I think the estimate below is extremely conservative, and the true cost is probably double!!! I'm sure I've left off some additional showcases/tourneys/costs. I've priced one showcase for the u15 to u19s. I left off the cost of fields/maintenance and other miscellaneous expenses. This also assumes a single coach per team, and didn't take into consideration additional staff would be happy to add them in. I assumed starting salary of u12 coach at 35,000 and up to 60,000 for u19s. I've heard rumors of salaries, but that's all.......could be way off base...... I assumed 24 players on u12, and 18 on the rest. I assumed 250 cost per head to take a 2 day trip (leave friday, return sunday). A bus rental probably is more expensive per head in reality. So for example, the trip total for the u12s is - $250 x 24 players x 2 trips = $12,000 this is not in the table, but a single friday to Sunday trip for an academy's u15 to u19 teams, could cost about $13,500. Hence, why its so hard to fully fund this, unless you are a rich MLS academy! Please offer suggestions! expense | Cost | u12 | u13 | u14 | u15 | u17 | u19 | Total | Coach $ | 35000 | 35,000 | 40,000 | 45,000 | 50,000 | 55,000 | 60,000 | | Uniform $ | 400 | 9,600 | 7,200 | 7,200 | 7,200 | 7,200 | 7,200 | | Showcase $ | 1200 | | | | 21,600 | 21,600 | 21,600 | | | | | | | | | | | Extra | trips | | | | | | | | | 250 | 12,000 | 22,500 | 22,500 | 31,500 | 31,500 | 31,500 | | | x's # of Trips | 2 | 5 | 5 | 7 | 7 | 7 | | Total | | 56,600 | 69,700 | 74,700 | 110,300 | 115,300 | 120,300 | 546,900 |
Not that my opinion matters but I would pay the U12 coach the most and the u19 coach the least.
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Post by zizou on Mar 11, 2018 11:35:31 GMT -5
This thread should keep going. Relevant and important for all other development discussions.
From Will Parchman: "MLS spends like an average of $3m/year per club on academies."
That does not sound like much to me and that is with USSF subsidizing large chunks.
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Post by rifle on Mar 12, 2018 6:27:54 GMT -5
I may be wrong - but that MLS number is extremely distorted, I believe, by facility costs.
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Post by zizou on Mar 12, 2018 8:57:02 GMT -5
I may be wrong - but that MLS number is extremely distorted, I believe, by facility costs. So your assumption is that the actual amount they are spending on development is considerably less than that figure. If someone wants to tweet at Will Parchman he could probably clarify.
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Post by SoccerMom on Mar 12, 2018 10:03:39 GMT -5
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Post by Soccerhouse on Mar 12, 2018 10:09:51 GMT -5
Yea, the original numbers I posted were intended to be for a MLS academy. Still would need to include insurance, field use, and I guess "building" costs and additional staff.
Oh, also just remembered the big dogs fly to games in florida, need to incorporate that into the costs.
Anyone know off hand the average cost per player for a normal club for insurance and field usage for a 10 month season?
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Post by Soccerhouse on Apr 20, 2018 21:14:09 GMT -5
What do you think the investment per year is for each u17 and/or u18 player at Atlanta united ~$10,000?
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Post by zizou on Apr 20, 2018 22:13:42 GMT -5
Must be north of that figure.
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Post by Futsal Gawdess on Apr 21, 2018 2:02:56 GMT -5
What do you think the investment per year is for each u17 and/or u18 player at Atlanta united ~$10,000? Close, I know at AU, the average number that is floated around internally is $8k - $13k per academy player. I know the U12/13/14 teams fall closer to the $8k number. So the balance is problem spent on the older teams, especially with their wider range of travel. Factor in approx. $1k goes exclusively to outfitting the each boy alone - practice gear, warm up gear, traveling gear, game day gear, uniforms, jackets, running shoes and soccer boots(fall & spring).
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