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Post by soccerfutbolfam on Apr 16, 2018 7:13:43 GMT -5
We are on the fence about ECNL - DA and either the Champions League (at big 5) or RPL at one of the 30+ clubs that didn't leave GA Soccer (If I understand all of that right)...
My kid loves soccer and is pretty decent at it.
I'd like to get ahead of the tryout drama and identify what makes best sense for my kid and my family.
Can someone please explain the travel for each of these leagues? and please break it down by age group. I'd like to know how this decision impacts future travel, as well.
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Post by atlsoccerdad on Apr 16, 2018 8:00:08 GMT -5
Here is a summary of my limited knowledge:
SCCL (Southern Club Champions League) - designed to provide ECNL level competition without the travel - local travel (about 2 hours ) so no hotels required - no spring season at high school level - pathway to college?
ECNL (Elite Clubs National League) - regional travel league - hotel and travel expenses - no spring season at high school level - pathway to college soccer
DA (Development Academy) - reduced number of games - year round training / games - limited ability to participate in other soccer events - pathway to professional soccer
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Post by footy on Apr 16, 2018 8:21:58 GMT -5
I think atlsoccerdad summarized it nicely. I would just add that DA is a pathway to both professional and college soccer. There are plenty of kids who do DA who never go pro but do play in college, along with others who play in college before going pro. Personally, I think DA players get better exposure overall to college coaches, but that's a whole 'nother discussion!
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Post by soccerdaddy on Apr 16, 2018 8:23:02 GMT -5
For Boys DA U12 - All GA conference- No traveling except for any Showcase tournament outside of GA. DA U13/14 - 33 Total games Fall/Spring (includes 3 game DA showcase) Travel to N.C. - Charlotte and Raleigh 3 weekends, 6 games. At U15 DA more traveling. Only 3 GA teams, AU, UFA & CF. Looks like 4 trips to FL & 4 to N.C. 33 + games for Fall/Spring
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Post by rocko1989 on Apr 16, 2018 9:56:16 GMT -5
Here is a summary of my limited knowledge: SCCL (Southern Club Champions League) - designed to provide ECNL level competition without the travel - local travel (about 2 hours ) so no hotels required - no spring season at high school level - pathway to college? ECNL (Elite Clubs National League) - regional travel league - hotel and travel expenses - no spring season at high school level - pathway to college soccer DA (Development Academy) - reduced number of games - year round training / games - limited ability to participate in other soccer events - pathway to professional soccer Thanks for this information. I am curious: do you really think the SCCL will provide ECNL level competition?
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Post by soccerdaddy on Apr 16, 2018 10:06:47 GMT -5
Yes, especially from SSA and UFA since they don’t have ECNL for boys. DA is their top team. Concorde and NASA will be playing their 3rd teams and GSA does ECNL for their top teams boys and girls so second teams. Although you have to consider an option for those who are tired of traveling or can’t do it anymore because they have a large family or they just don’t have the funds to spend an extra 3 to 5+ thousand extra to play soccer.
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Post by soccerdaddy on Apr 16, 2018 10:13:13 GMT -5
Yes, especially from SSA and UFA since they don’t have ECNL for boys. DA is their top team. Concorde and NASA will be playing their 3rd teams and GSA does ECNL for their top teams boys and girls so second teams. Although you have to consider an option for those who are tired of traveling or can’t do it anymore because they have a large family or they just don’t have the funds to spend an extra 3 to 5+ thousand extra to play soccer. sorry this is just my “Opinion” because when they announce it and get the details out for each club, I could be inserting foot into mouth. 😜
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Post by oraclesfriend on Apr 16, 2018 10:55:10 GMT -5
Yes, especially from SSA and UFA since they don’t have ECNL for boys. DA is their top team. Concorde and NASA will be playing their 3rd teams and GSA does ECNL for their top teams boys and girls so second teams. Although you have to consider an option for those who are tired of traveling or can’t do it anymore because they have a large family or they just don’t have the funds to spend an extra 3 to 5+ thousand extra to play soccer. sorry this is just my “Opinion” because when they announce it and get the details out for each club, I could be inserting foot into mouth. 😜 Well we have heard a few on this forum state they won't travel unless it is DA. Several others have said that they are tired of travel too and would consider it. My guess is there will be players of ECNL quality in this league, but that there may be big differences between best players and worst players on teams. I think it may just take a few years to shake out and see how it goes. I think some clubs are going to have super strong teams in certain age groups and some teams will be weak but this happens anyway.
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Post by soccermaxx72 on Apr 16, 2018 11:03:49 GMT -5
I personally believe the Champions league is a sugarcoated name for a glorified Athena A level quality
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Post by oraclesfriend on Apr 16, 2018 11:19:17 GMT -5
I personally believe the Champions league is a sugarcoated name for a glorified Athena A level quality The higher up you go, the less difference there is. As people have stated on other threads that there are ECNL and RPL boys teams that can beat AU DA (in certain age groups), I think the same will be true here. There are some teams that are just so awesome regardless of what "league" they play in. Is it the coach? The players? The teamwork and team chemistry? Who knows? Maybe all 3. Will there be teams in this league will be beaten by Athena A/Classic 1 teams? I think yes. Will there be teams that will beat ECNL teams? Again I think yes. There may even be teams here that are no better than Athena B/Classic 2. That is why I said it will take a few years to shake out. It could be that the big 5 are preparing for a possibility that they will have to choose between ECNL and DA and for NASA Tophat and Concorde this may be their hedge bet.
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Post by soccerdaddy on Apr 16, 2018 11:48:13 GMT -5
I personally believe the Champions league is a sugarcoated name for a glorified Athena A level quality The higher up you go, the less difference there is. As people have stated on other threads that there are ECNL and RPL boys teams that can beat AU DA (in certain age groups), I think the same will be true here. There are some teams that are just so awesome regardless of what "league" they play in. Is it the coach? The players? The teamwork and team chemistry? Who knows? Maybe all 3. Will there be teams in this league will be beaten by Athena A/Classic 1 teams? I think yes. Will there be teams that will beat ECNL teams? Again I think yes. There may even be teams here that are no better than Athena B/Classic 2. That is why I said it will take a few years to shake out. It could be that the big 5 are preparing for a possibility that they will have to choose between ECNL and DA and for NASA Tophat and Concorde this may be their hedge bet. I disagree with you on DA for boys and the higher you go in age the better. This league contains the most emphasis from the clubs that are in DA and most are with their best players (Some May choose High School but I don’t know any of those kids). In my opinion, the older age groups have solid teams even on the bench and there are no other teams from other leagues that can compete on a consistent basis. The training is a huge commitment and 4 days vs 2-3 days of practice adds up. Games are all year with 30+ With Playoffs/Showcases and I’m pretty sure the fact that MLS academies play in this league sums it up.
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Post by atv on Apr 16, 2018 12:33:12 GMT -5
Regarding DA for boys statement:
“.... the older age groups have solid teams even on the bench and there are no other teams from other leagues that can compete on a consistent basis.”
How could you possibly know this if there not playing each other? One thing about boys there are thousands of kids playing and thus good talent and teams everywhere. Talent it seems isn’t as geographically restricting as the teams where DA is located. I guarantee there are teams out there without a DA patch on the sleeve that can beat some DA teams soundly.
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Post by Soccerhouse on Apr 16, 2018 12:35:12 GMT -5
For Example - Daltons u13s 2003s last year ran through the local DA sides.
This years team isn't as good as last years though, I think they lost a few to AU.
Best 2001 in the city doesn't play DA full time, yes he guests with AU for non US soccer tourneys, but is not a full time DA player
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Post by atlsoccerdad on Apr 16, 2018 12:37:53 GMT -5
My only additional comment is that I suspect many current ECNL players may opt into the SCCL to reduce the time / expense related to current ECNL travel. If this happens, then SCCL will probably replace ECNL in terms of competition level. It also seems to provide a pathway to compete against ECNL teams directly - and rumor has it that winning SCCL may also provide NPL opportunities....
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Post by Soccerhouse on Apr 16, 2018 12:43:17 GMT -5
Most parents -- sorry for stereotyping will want there kid on the best team they can make. Very few turn down spots on teams that are considered higher in the hierarchy of youth soccer. granted for some the hierachy is somewhat subjective.
But that being said - I do know many kids (parents) that turn down top teams for 2nd teams. Usually were coaching related and playing time decisions. Happens a lot, but the vast majority of parents don't realize until half way through the season that maybe team 2 was in fact better for your kid than team 1.
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Post by soccerheaven on Apr 16, 2018 12:48:22 GMT -5
I disagree with the last blanket statement that the CL will be a glorified Athena A level. My kid has been part of the SRPL system for the last 3 years. We have been very competitive against many ECNL teams from New England at showcase tourneys. Even winning a few. The few times we have even played or scrimmaged against Athena A teams the game was a blowout. The SRPL normally play against the top level teams from other programs. This of course could not have happened on a third team from anywhere other then one of the big 5 due to population. I am talking about SRPL Premier not RPL. I will agree that the lower division RPL should not exist. I believe the CL could offer more then SRPL if run well. The last years were aweful with games scheduled and cancelled due to lack of Refs or field space or having to drive 5 hours to play local teams from Atlanta. All that being said watch it be a bust. At least a bust closer to home.
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Post by soccerdaddy on Apr 16, 2018 13:20:25 GMT -5
Regarding DA for boys statement: “.... the older age groups have solid teams even on the bench and there are no other teams from other leagues that can compete on a consistent basis.” How could you possibly know this if there not playing each other? One thing about boys there are thousands of kids playing and thus good talent and teams everywhere. Talent it seems isn’t as geographically restricting as the teams where DA is located. I guarantee there are teams out there without a DA patch on the sleeve that can beat some DA teams soundly. on a consistent basis? Yes anything can happen in 1-4 games but overall if you train more than other league teams then you will produce better players. I’m pretty sure all DA clubs put forth their best players and pour all the money into making them into the best team. I’m not sure how much practice other leagues/clubs mandate practice, but 4 days per week from Aug to June will seal the deal for a solid team. Also, your competing against other clubs doing the same. Add up the hours.
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Post by soccerdaddy on Apr 16, 2018 13:38:45 GMT -5
Also just commenting on GA teams at age U14 and above. I’m sure the US has plenty of non DA teams that are dominant. There are several great players all over and in places that doesn’t have organize soccer. I know several leaks mainly Hispanic across Georgia that would have a field day against a top team in ECNL as well is DA if they would just get together.
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Post by oraclesfriend on Apr 16, 2018 13:45:47 GMT -5
The higher up you go, the less difference there is. As people have stated on other threads that there are ECNL and RPL boys teams that can beat AU DA (in certain age groups), I think the same will be true here. There are some teams that are just so awesome regardless of what "league" they play in. Is it the coach? The players? The teamwork and team chemistry? Who knows? Maybe all 3. Will there be teams in this league will be beaten by Athena A/Classic 1 teams? I think yes. Will there be teams that will beat ECNL teams? Again I think yes. There may even be teams here that are no better than Athena B/Classic 2. That is why I said it will take a few years to shake out. It could be that the big 5 are preparing for a possibility that they will have to choose between ECNL and DA and for NASA Tophat and Concorde this may be their hedge bet. I disagree with you on DA for boys and the higher you go in age the better. This league contains the most emphasis from the clubs that are in DA and most are with their best players (Some May choose High School but I don’t know any of those kids). In my opinion, the older age groups have solid teams even on the bench and there are no other teams from other leagues that can compete on a consistent basis. The training is a huge commitment and 4 days vs 2-3 days of practice adds up. Games are all year with 30+ With Playoffs/Showcases and I’m pretty sure the fact that MLS academies play in this league sums it up. First let me say I don't have a boy at all let alone one playing DA. I am paraphrasing others who have said there are non-DA teams that would (and according to others Dalton for example) have beaten DA sides. Second let me say that I didn't say the higher up in age the less difference. I am saying the higher up the ladder i.e. Athena A vs RPL vs ECNL vs DA for girls. Of course girls DA is brand new as is boys ECNL. Jury is out on how those will go and how long to work out kinks. The top teams in RPL can and do beat very strong sides from ECNL (U13 SSA vs Concorde ECNL). I actually think the higher up the age the more difference there is because a lot of the best move to the best team they can. I still think there will be kids of excellent quality in CCL (if that is the abbrevation). Third, I think we all agree the MLS DA teams are a little different as the recruiting issues there are different. Fourth, just because your team trains 4 days vs 3 days doesn't mean that the players are better. My kid trains 3 days with her team and at least 2 days on her own. She gets more touches on her own training days than with her team training and does a lot of technical skills work on those days. She is good tactically already at least with her vision and decisions (needs more work on her off the ball movement but that is off topic). Her team has played 22 games in the fall since they went to the Finals in all of the tourneys the played in and so far have played 10 games this spring with 10 more to go. She is too young for high school and if she doesn't make DA her high school quality is not good, but we will cross that bridge then. I am not saying that ECNL is as good as DA for boys or girls. I am not saying that SPRL is as good as ECNL or DA. Those are blanket statements. I think there are BIG differences depending on what area of the country someone lives in (and maybe state too). I just think that it possible that CCL could compete with ECNL especially if Concorde and NTH have to opt out of ECNL.
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Post by oraclesfriend on Apr 16, 2018 13:50:22 GMT -5
I disagree with the last blanket statement that the CL will be a glorified Athena A level. My kid has been part of the SRPL system for the last 3 years. We have been very competitive against many ECNL teams from New England at showcase tourneys. Even winning a few. The few times we have even played or scrimmaged against Athena A teams the game was a blowout. The SRPL normally play against the top level teams from other programs. This of course could not have happened on a third team from anywhere other then one of the big 5 due to population. I am talking about SRPL Premier not RPL. I will agree that the lower division RPL should not exist. I believe the CL could offer more then SRPL if run well. The last years were aweful with games scheduled and cancelled due to lack of Refs or field space or having to drive 5 hours to play local teams from Atlanta. All that being said watch it be a bust. At least a bust closer to home. This is the basic reason a big 5 higher up gave for why they wanted to Champions League. Plus he felt that those with DA and ECNL were going to be forced to choose soon.
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Post by soccerdaddy on Apr 16, 2018 14:04:29 GMT -5
Fourth, just because your team trains 4 days vs 3 days doesn't mean that the players are better. My kid trains 3 days with her team and at least 2 days on her own. She gets more touches on her own training days than with her team training and does a lot of technical skills work on those days.[/quote] Sorry just being humorous, You just said your daughter trains 5 times per week. 3 with team and 2 on her own. That’s more than 4. Seriously, your daughter is committed and at that age she will rise to the top of any team/league. That’s awesome! By the way, our club does DA practice in 3 ways. Monday is technical training, Tuesday and Thursday is team practice and Wednesday is Sports Science/Speed/Strength training. I agree with most everything you said and I don’t mean to offend anyone’s Club or team or league. Like your daughter it is up to the player to do the hard work. All parents can do is keep encouraging them and hopefully you are at the right Club/Team at the right time!
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Post by dad on Apr 16, 2018 15:18:55 GMT -5
I think the level of competition with th introduction of the new league will be 1:DA Clearly the cream of the crop 2:ECNL and SRPL of equal quality since DA scimmed the cream off of ECNL crop. 3 New league since they are mostly from Athena and RPL second second league.
Is this pretty much accurate?
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Post by oraclesfriend on Apr 16, 2018 15:38:14 GMT -5
Fourth, just because your team trains 4 days vs 3 days doesn't mean that the players are better. My kid trains 3 days with her team and at least 2 days on her own. She gets more touches on her own training days than with her team training and does a lot of technical skills work on those days. Sorry just being humorous, You just said your daughter trains 5 times per week. 3 with team and 2 on her own. That’s more than 4. Seriously, your daughter is committed and at that age she will rise to the top of any team/league. That’s awesome! By the way, our club does DA practice in 3 ways. Monday is technical training, Tuesday and Thursday is team practice and Wednesday is Sports Science/Speed/Strength training. I agree with most everything you said and I don’t mean to offend anyone’s Club or team or league. Like your daughter it is up to the player to do the hard work. All parents can do is keep encouraging them and hopefully you are at the right Club/Team at the right time! [/quote] Thanks. She has some ground to make up, but she is dedicated. My opinion is a little similar to what spectator has said though we are at a big club... I think there is a place for anyone who wants to play. It is just whether they can find a good overall fit. Since my kid wants to play D1 at a good academic school like Harvard she is working hard to get better.
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