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Post by straightupballer on May 18, 2018 8:34:45 GMT -5
So my kid is a "top" player. Is she elite, no. But it is always nice to have your kid play on the top level she can.
Looking at UFA-Norcross's latest coaching list, it is glaring apparent, that if we stay there and "choose" not to play DA what really is your option. Lets be honest, for some like my daughter, choosing to not play DA is not her choice -- But prior to a month ago, there was an option to at least compete and have a team rise the ranks and play "a higher" tier of soccer.
It looks like now the cap for a Norcross girls player is SCCL. That's it, best you can be is 3rd tier? No girls DA teams train at Norcross.
Am I missing something here? I'm not the parent who really wants to have to drive up to Forsyth to play on 2nd team, which again their is no guarantees either given its a Forsyth team vs a Norcross team.
Here is the bigger one for me though --- which to me isn't necessarily fair given I live near Norcross. If we wanted to play on a NPL team, (no guarantees), we would have to pay $685 more and then I'm also assuming a $360 out of county fee? I'm I wrong about this?
Not necessarily looking for answers, more to bring it to their attention -- Norcross you have a big problem on your hands! Tryout out times are similar as well.
Just wanted to bring this to their attention - that's all. Maybe nobody ever reads this.
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Post by surgesoccer on May 18, 2018 9:44:18 GMT -5
You are correct on the difference in pricing between Fowler's NPL and Norcross's SCCL. But that same difference was there last year as well, so while it looks to be connected to the league, its tied to the different locations. And yes if you go to Fowler the out of county fee, plus new uniforms this year, put you at $2,600+.
No one really knows what SCCL will be. I imagine at some Age Groups it will be good and some not so good. A lot of uncertainty tied to it and it makes it hard to make a decision. Your choices really are:
1. Stick it out for a year to see how things play out; 2. Go to Fowler with more $$$ and more drive time; 3. Find another club
Norcross would do itself a favor by publishing what teams from the Big 5 will play in each age group and gender. At least that way you can get an estimate on what the competitive landscape of SCCL will be.
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Post by Soccerhouse on May 18, 2018 9:59:51 GMT -5
Good response, problem now is the best that Norcross team will ever be is SCCL. Below DA Below ECNL Below NPL then you get to SCCL.
I think keeping top players around will be a challenge. It already has been an issue, I expect it to get worse over time.
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Post by Futsal Gawdess on May 18, 2018 11:06:37 GMT -5
I agree the situation at UFA-Norcross is not as ideal for girls as it is for boys. The boys DA trains out of Norcross(Summerour) and the coaches can see the development and push boys on the DA teams as DP. With the girls, that is going to be difficult, since the coaches that are involved with DA are also likely to be involved with NPL so are more apt to push up those girls to DP with the Girls DA team.
I know this is a pipe dream, but just on the off-chance that someone in leadership from UFA is on this forum and reads this. Here are my thoughts.
Move all DA/NPL/SCCL team training over to the South Forsyth location. Coaches can see all the players from DA down and make determinations as to who is getting better and deserves a shot at the higher team full time or as a DP. Gives those on a lower team something to strive for. Practices become more intense. For tryouts for DA/NPL/SCCL make it simple. Bring everyone for a particular age group to one location and have them ALL tryout. The first 15-20 make DA. The next 15-20 make NPL and the next make SCCL. Then the remaining split into Fowler/Norcross and they play in the Georgia Soccer model(Athena/Classic). This allows you to field better/stronger teams. There is no us vs them and coaches from both locations get to see players they wouldn't normally see. I believe it would lead to a higher and faster level of development. Folks will now also be able to see a true pathway.
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Post by oraclesfriend on May 18, 2018 11:18:54 GMT -5
I agree the situation at UFA-Norcross is not as ideal for girls as it is for boys. The boys DA trains out of Norcross(Summerour) and the coaches can see the development and push boys on the DA teams as DP. With the girls, that is going to be difficult, since the coaches that are involved with DA are also likely to be involved with NPL so are more apt to push up those girls to DP with the Girls DA team. I know this is a pipe dream, but just on the off-chance that someone in leadership from UFA is on this forum and reads this. Here are my thoughts. Move all DA/NPL/SCCL team training over to the South Forsyth location. Coaches can see all the players from DA down and make determinations as to who is getting better and deserves a shot at the higher team full time or as a DP. Gives those on a lower team something to strive for. Practices become more intense. For tryouts for DA/NPL/SCCL make it simple. Bring everyone for a particular age group to one location and have them ALL tryout. The first 15-20 make DA. The next 15-20 make NPL and the next make SCCL. Then the remaining split into Fowler/Norcross and they play in the Georgia Soccer model(Athena/Classic). This allows you to field better/stronger teams. There is no us vs them and coaches from both locations get to see players they wouldn't normally see. I believe it would lead to a higher and faster level of development. Folks will now also be able to see a true pathway. Though the drive to South would add about 15-20 minutes to MY drive due to traffic in that are, I agree that this idea has merit. I doubt it will happen this year given how late it is and making that type of cultural shift doesn't seem to be a quick thing. I do think the club would lose some players with this out of the Forsyth group because they figure if they are going to have to drive another 20 minutes they might just go to Concorde or Tophat (this is on the girls side). Plus those field would need a major overhaul as well before that would be advisable unless you want to have a lot of players out with ankle sprains. Your other idea of rotating practice between Fowler, South and Norcross also has merit. They need to decide how they want to run these leagues. I think they need to see how SCCL plays out first.
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Post by bluefedora on May 18, 2018 16:56:20 GMT -5
I agree with that oraclesfriend...except for when you get to the last group who could play Athena A. Those girls could win state cup and still cannot go to the NL. Or, they could go 15 minutes down Peachtree and play on the AFU NL team, or one of their Athena A teams and have a chance to be promoted to NL.
And for those NL/Athena A girls who work hard and get better, AFU still has ECNL as an option.......................
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Post by Soccerhouse on May 18, 2018 17:34:16 GMT -5
I know many that have left for AFU - I expect that trend to continue.
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Post by oraclesfriend on May 18, 2018 17:43:16 GMT -5
I know many that have left for AFU - I expect that trend to continue. That has happened for years. I once listened to a UFA Norcross girls coach rant about that for a while. Says they lose kids to AFU in droves once they get to U12. They go there for ECNL (want to get there a year early to be better known in the club). I don't know if SCCL will make that worse or not on the girls side. In some age groups the Norcross Premier teams will be playing same or better teams than they were in their Athena divisions. There will still be the same clubs around offering ECNL. That hasn't changed. This may not change anything on the girls side.
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tm02g
Jr. Academy
Posts: 14
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Post by tm02g on May 23, 2018 11:03:17 GMT -5
Many seem to think that the SCCL teams will be the existing top teams at Norcross. But is it not just as likely that the Norcross branch is hoping to attract high level players to create brand new SCCL teams?
The Classic 1/Athena A players at the Forsyth branch will have to decide whether to tryout in Norcross if they want to move up from Classic 1/Athena A. Some of the existing 3rd teams at the Forsyth Branch finished higher in the Classic 1 / Athena A bracket then the existing premier level teams at Norcross. I am pretty sure those Forsyth players will either choose to go to Norcross or another club for tryouts unless they are confident they can move up two levels (given UFA's graphic shows player progression is Athena/Classic to SCCL to NPL). If they choose to go to Norcorss, those Forsyth parents will be paying out-of-county fees too.
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Post by Soccerhouse on May 23, 2018 12:08:00 GMT -5
Its interesting. Will be difficult, given some kids don't even know they didn't make the 2nd team until they get that phone call etc, are they then offered a spot on the SCCL team if they are from Forsyth?
Difficult logistically to manage that is for sure.
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Post by Futsal Gawdess on May 23, 2018 20:17:50 GMT -5
In thinking about things, it makes sense that UFA run SCCL out of Norcross. If you don't make DA or don't want to travel as much with NPL(costs, travel, etc) then your next option is SCCL. If you don't want to travel from Fowler down to Norcross then you had better make the DA/NPL team or be relegated to Classic 1/Athena A at best, with no hope of promotion.
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Post by oraclesfriend on May 23, 2018 20:38:41 GMT -5
In thinking about things, it makes sense that UFA run SCCL out of Norcross. If you don't make DA or don't want to travel as much with NPL(costs, travel, etc) then your next option is SCCL. If you don't want to travel from Fowler down to Norcross then you had better make the DA/NPL team or be relegated to Classic 1/Athena A at best, with no hope of promotion. There is no hope of promotion this year but they have said there is a plan if a team wins Athena A/Classic 1 that COULD result in going to SCCL. I think people are pretty confident that they won't let that happen after year one. They will just add teams or divisions to make sure they don't lose kids because they can't get promoted. To not have a plan to deal with that would be foolish. The question is how far will they go with it and for how many teams.
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Post by greenmonkey on May 23, 2018 21:46:53 GMT -5
In thinking about things, it makes sense that UFA run SCCL out of Norcross. If you don't make DA or don't want to travel as much with NPL(costs, travel, etc) then your next option is SCCL. If you don't want to travel from Fowler down to Norcross then you had better make the DA/NPL team or be relegated to Classic 1/Athena A at best, with no hope of promotion. So let's play the hypothetical game the other direction. Pick an age group any age group :-) And just use the UFA location example since thats the thread What if the Norcross SCCL team is "extremely successful" in their season and the same age group Fowler NPL is "less" successful in their season. Does the CLUB have the "option" to "relegate" the Fowler team to SCCL the following year and "promote" the SCCL to NPL? Each of the clubs involved in this SCCL league has multi-locations that could encounter this scenario on any given age group or season. It sounds all nice to market the "development" and upward mobility options for players but the reality is logistically I think you are right and it will be up to the parents to drive the an individual player to the other club location if the player gets promoted. Which makes one question what the "real" benefit of multi-location clubs with multi-leagues really is?
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Post by Futsal Gawdess on May 24, 2018 2:36:37 GMT -5
Good points greenmonkey, I like to use the DA as an example. Doubt it would happen, but what if due to $$$ and location the SCCL is stacked and would (to the naked eye) win in a head to head game with the DA team. They are not all of a sudden going to move DA to Norcross. It will still be out of Fowler, UFA would just push those players to go tryout and play for the DA team out of Fowler. If the issue is $$$ they could use some of their scholarship $$ to mitigate the costs or if it is location, they could appease by maybe having DA practice out of South Forsyth, which is where is should be to make it more centrally located IMHO.
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Post by soccermaxx72 on May 24, 2018 8:07:52 GMT -5
What a mess long term for UFA girls
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Post by soccermaxx72 on Jun 6, 2018 15:00:53 GMT -5
unless the pyramid changes, Norcross girls would be uninformed to stay past U12, should leave U13 for Forsyth NPL or AFU ECNL
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Post by daddyo on Jun 6, 2018 15:57:08 GMT -5
Futsal Gawdess you should market yourself as an expert consultant for club soccer. Bringing Real Ideas to the MASL and the DOCs around the state. Making it simple for everyone to understand!
Or write a pamphlet explaining "All things Club" for the parents.
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Post by striker89 on Jun 8, 2018 14:33:11 GMT -5
I don't think anyone can say with any certainty that an SCCL team will be a weaker team then an NPL team (even though the pyramid suggests this). Or if you're playing on a SCCL team that your level is capped and you have no access to get to DA. Also, not sure why U13 kids and their families are better served at Forsyth NPL or AFU ECNL. Just my 2 cents. Too many variables involved (coaching, team chemistry, travel distance, costs, etc...) to make such a broad statement. I know many players and have talked to many families from all the locations and/or clubs mentioned in this thread. There are pros and cons to each location. Agree that it's not ideal for UFA but show me another club in metro Atlanta with the ideal structure and environment.
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Post by Futsal Gawdess on Jun 8, 2018 21:06:53 GMT -5
unless the pyramid changes, Norcross girls would be uninformed to stay past U12, should leave U13 for Forsyth NPL or AFU ECNL I see your point, however, based on the landscape currently at UFA I think the SCCL being housed out of Norcross might actually be a good thing. I still think DA needs to be more centrally located(south Forsyth). However, I choose to view SCCL as UFA's version of ECNL. I'm not saying they are on the same level, but it gives yet another option for that player that does not want to play DA, doesn't want to travel to Forsyth for NPL or doesn't want to pay the associated cost for travel within NPL. They can play HS ball and ODP and enjoy the liberal substitution. I think SCCL hedges a lot of the Norcross based families from going to AFU. Plus depending on whom you have on the NPL vs SCCL teams, there's no saying which team might actually be stronger. If I live near Norcross, I'm not schlepping to Forsyth for NPL, DA maybe but not NPL. Finally, the cost is going to be a deal break for some, I believe it's over $2100 for NPL, plus the out of county fee if you don't live in Forsyth county versus $1500 out of norcross. That is an almost $1000 swing for a level of play you can't guarantee will be higher. Sorry I pass
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