|
Post by be real on Jun 6, 2018 13:04:07 GMT -5
CF academy wins at a very good clip. As such, kids come and go. Some kids are recruited but a lot of kids come on their own. Some coaches are better than others at development. Just like any other club in Atlanta. Parents should know that all competitive clubs operate the same way. True, because winning is the best way to convince parents that you're a good club. I agree with most of what you said, but I disagree with your last statement. I think there are clubs in the MASL that do research, develop and implement a club-wide philosophy on fitness, playing, possession, tactics and focus less on winning. Do share where these clubs are.
|
|
|
Post by throughball on Jun 6, 2018 13:07:29 GMT -5
I'm sorry but in my experience, I don't believe CF cares about a developmental focus. Do the words "Boom Ball" ring a bell? Their club's development plan goes a little something like this: - Early years of academy, choose the biggest and fastest so they dominate; - Middle years, rinse repeat, throw in a scholarship; - Latter years, recruit from the other clubs in MASL, collate talent and win; They do have some individual coaches that care about development et.al. Let's not belittle their track record of winning. They do that very well. They also do well in getting your kids on to Nat'l Teams and college. But in my opinion, you go to CF in your latter years once your fundamentals are rock solid from someone else. I'm sorry but in MY (also anecdotal) experience, I have never seen a CF team only make due with "boom ball". Granted, our experience may be more limited than yours. However, from Pre-Academy through U12, played vs Elite, Black, White, and Red - not one team played boom ball. All teams played from the back and "the right way". Now, various teams had different levels of skills and speed, but again, every team I've seen from CF tried to play the game as we all envision it and not boom ball. I'm sure it depends on the coach. The top U12 CF Central team back in the 2016 - 2017 season played a completely different sport than we did as it was foul after foul. Our team won or tied most of the time, but the game was always unwatchable because either the officials had to call a foul every other minute or no calls were being made and no one could make a real soccer play without getting taken out.
|
|
|
Post by oldboy on Jun 6, 2018 13:09:52 GMT -5
It's tryout time and so, even this forum with a more elevated and intellectual approach can't control the try out spin doctors. First, this is the time of the year where it is chaotic and traumatic if especially if your a bubble kid. My kids have all played at high level for CF. CF is not bullet proof-- It clearly could communicate better for example. But, the development has always been very good. (Girl side there is no boom ball.) No national team kid has transferred to CF (like TH), but many have gotten on the national team pool after being with CF for several years or a at least a couple years. The top teams are clearly doing something right. Also, this is the "reality check" time of the year. I have had a kid who was on the bubble and I was able to recognize it no matter how hurtful it was to my kid. The reality is that coaches at the highest levels need to win, so you are doing your kid a disservice if you are "blaming it on the system" or some sort of "conspiracy against your kid." Your friends can't be honest and tell you, "Actually Debbie, your daughter really shouldn't make the team." Rather, they say, "Man, I'm surprised your daughter didn't make it. That's really tough." If you are a top team kid, find a top team at another club. In an aggragate of 30 years of club soccer with all my kids I have NEVER seen a kid cut, go to another team, and then say "man we made a serious mistake in cutting that kid." Be mindful, it can't always be someone else's fault. Sometimes it is the reality and it is better to realistically self-assess now so it helps your kid in the real world when things really may not be fair! Several national team players have transferred to CF over recent years. TH and CF are the same in that regard. Not bashing either, just straightening facts.
|
|
|
Post by olderthandirt on Jun 6, 2018 13:28:51 GMT -5
It's tryout time and so, even this forum with a more elevated and intellectual approach can't control the try out spin doctors. First, this is the time of the year where it is chaotic and traumatic if especially if your a bubble kid. My kids have all played at high level for CF. CF is not bullet proof-- It clearly could communicate better for example. But, the development has always been very good. (Girl side there is no boom ball.) No national team kid has transferred to CF (like TH), but many have gotten on the national team pool after being with CF for several years or a at least a couple years. The top teams are clearly doing something right. Also, this is the "reality check" time of the year. I have had a kid who was on the bubble and I was able to recognize it no matter how hurtful it was to my kid. The reality is that coaches at the highest levels need to win, so you are doing your kid a disservice if you are "blaming it on the system" or some sort of "conspiracy against your kid." Your friends can't be honest and tell you, "Actually Debbie, your daughter really shouldn't make the team." Rather, they say, "Man, I'm surprised your daughter didn't make it. That's really tough." If you are a top team kid, find a top team at another club. In an aggragate of 30 years of club soccer with all my kids I have NEVER seen a kid cut, go to another team, and then say "man we made a serious mistake in cutting that kid." Be mindful, it can't always be someone else's fault. Sometimes it is the reality and it is better to realistically self-assess now so it helps your kid in the real world when things really may not be fair! Very clever of you, first complimenting all of us with your "elevated and intellectual approach", before adding your own spin and thinly veiled derogatory comments. We almost missed your bias.
Although you have "NEVER seen a kid cut, go to another team, and then say 'man we made a serious mistake in cutting that kid'", you can rest assured that it has happened. You may not have been privy to those conversations, but it's happened. I've spoken with DOC's who have questioned their coaches about this very issue more than once.
In the end of your post, however, you are ultimately correct: it can't always be someone else's fault. Teach your children to work hard, do the best that they can, and take pride in having given their best - no matter the outcome. If your child turns out to be the next star of the USWNT - great for her. If your child "only" learns that success takes hard work and dedication, applies that effort, and becomes a contributing citizen - great for him as well.
|
|
|
Post by fridge on Jun 6, 2018 14:13:33 GMT -5
Olderthandirt--First, I'm not really sure how you could have "missed my bias" as I made it clear I've been w/ CF for a long time. So, my bias was open/explicit. Second, the problem is others, especially on the other forum, really like to snipe from anonymity and hide their bias. It clearly has spilled over to this forum especially at this time of year. Third, of course, bad decisions made and sometimes for the wrong reasons. My personal experience is that a very very large percent of the decisions are the correct decisions or, at the very least, within reasonable discretion. Fourth, I really have not seen our teams cut a kid and the team later regret the decision. Not saying it can't happen, but again it would be a rare exception not the rule. Lastly, your last point was GREAT. That in my mind was elevated and intellectual!
|
|
|
Post by justaparent on Jun 6, 2018 14:58:48 GMT -5
Does the other board still exist? I like train wrecks.
|
|
|
Post by nohopesolo on Jun 6, 2018 15:12:34 GMT -5
CF treated the SRPL boys horribly. Coaches told them to attend DA/ECNL tryouts and worst case scenario they would get spots on SCCL. Most players completely ignored at tryouts while virtually all spots given to players from other clubs. At the end of session today (last day) told "no spots for you" come back tonight for Classic 2 and below tryouts. The boys who skipped tryouts for vacation ultimately fared better.
|
|
|
Post by daddyo on Jun 6, 2018 15:32:04 GMT -5
From the horses mouth at Concorde, we are a Destination club not a Development club!!
I know two of the 01 girls (CF) who are constantly being pulled into the National Team Camps and they have played their entire time at CF. These girls have been getting outside training since they were 10/11 yrs old and have worked their butts off to be where they are. Congrats to both of them for following their dreams all the way to ND.
Concorde Does have some very good coaches, 3 just left from North, that coach and teach the right way. The only coach that I know teaches Boom Ball is GB, he only believes in kicking the ball forward and not playing back, which baffles me but that's his style.
|
|
|
Post by daddyo on Jun 6, 2018 15:41:44 GMT -5
I know those SRPL boys from Concorde and that group has some talent. I do know a little fact from a player (2yrs ago) on that team who is a baller and has a motor that never quits. He attended DA/RPL tryouts and did well, not enough to make DA but definitely RPL, and they offered him a classic 3 spot. I don't know what his parents did to piss off KK and GB but he left to play at a top team at a small club.
I hope CF didn't hose him again. He is a very good player and his parents are super cool.
GodSpeed to those boys, they are a good group of young men.
|
|
|
Post by soccerrealist on Jun 6, 2018 15:44:07 GMT -5
Yep, like most have stated, this is not just a CF thing. I have seen it at multiple big clubs. Here's another one I've seen at many clubs, big and small...
Coaches only watching maybe... maybe... a quarter of the tryout time actually watching the players. The rest is spent talking and laughing with the coaches with their backs turned to the players. I am curious if there are any coaches out there that can give some honest insight into why that is? This is an anonymous site, so please share.
I was at Tophat today and their tryouts were first class! Including feedback at end of session. Not all are the same. Concorde was horrible by comparison.
|
|
|
Post by fanatic21 on Jun 6, 2018 16:04:58 GMT -5
Yep, like most have stated, this is not just a CF thing. I have seen it at multiple big clubs. Here's another one I've seen at many clubs, big and small...
Coaches only watching maybe... maybe... a quarter of the tryout time actually watching the players. The rest is spent talking and laughing with the coaches with their backs turned to the players. I am curious if there are any coaches out there that can give some honest insight into why that is? This is an anonymous site, so please share.
I was at Tophat today and their tryouts were first class! Including feedback at end of session. Not all are the same. Concorde was horrible by comparison. Not sure what age your daughter is, but my daughter went to both TH tryouts and CF tryouts as well. They did pretty much the exact same thing at both clubs. 2 fields of 9v9 for 1/2 the time, 1 field of 11v11 for 1/2 the time. Coaches at both places talked to and seemed interested in my daughter - I saw them talking individually to a lot of other players as well (again, at both places).
|
|
|
Post by aliensource on Jun 6, 2018 21:43:09 GMT -5
Not really, maybe it's happened a few times but its not blatantly widespread like other clubs. Are you joking? I happens all the time at NTH. Not sure what rock you are living under. I know a girls Concorde DA to ECNLa player offered that exact deal yesterday from TH. You are on the DA bubble. Play with our ECNL we will give you up to six DA games and still play in high school. Soccerfan30 is understandabley a teensy bit biased against Concorde...and so am I but NO CLUB KEEPS IT REAL DURING TRYOUTS. NO CLUB.
|
|
|
Post by fridge on Jun 7, 2018 7:46:30 GMT -5
Are you joking? I happens all the time at NTH. Not sure what rock you are living under. I know a girls Concorde DA to ECNLa player offered that exact deal yesterday from TH. You are on the DA bubble. Play with our ECNL we will give you up to six DA games and still play in high school. Soccerfan30 is understandabley a teensy bit biased against Concorde...and so am I but NO CLUB KEEPS IT REAL DURING TRYOUTS. NO CLUB. Winner winner chicken dinner! TH was telling several girls they were on the DA bubble and would get some games. First, TH didn't use hardly any DPs last year. Second, these girls aren't DA bubble kids. They are solid players to fill out TH ECNL 2nd team roster. It's a game of bait and switch--and knowing the kids they aren't DA bubble kids unless TH DA took a big hit.
|
|
|
Post by soccerballz on Jun 7, 2018 8:22:36 GMT -5
Hopefully both the ECNL and DA teams are in close proximity to practice or scrimmage together. If that is the case, make sure your kid works hard in those settings to show they belong on that team. And as the parent, you always have to remind the coaches what was "promised". Some coaches will conveniently forget what was said at tryouts.
|
|
|
Post by Futsal Gawdess on Jun 7, 2018 8:57:44 GMT -5
Hopefully both the ECNL and DA teams are in close proximity to practice or scrimmage together. If that is the case, make sure your kid works hard in those settings to show they belong on that team. And as the parent, you always have to remind the coaches what was "promised". Some coaches will conveniently forget what was said at tryouts. Talking face to face is good, but also ensure you add some type of written reminder aka texting or emails, because I know sometimes folks have selective amnesia when it comes to promises...
|
|
|
Post by Futsal Gawdess on Jun 7, 2018 8:59:44 GMT -5
True, because winning is the best way to convince parents that you're a good club. I agree with most of what you said, but I disagree with your last statement. I think there are clubs in the MASL that do research, develop and implement a club-wide philosophy on fitness, playing, possession, tactics and focus less on winning. Do share where these clubs are. I can speak of UFA Norcross. I've seen the training plans that are collectively relayed to all the coaches by the DOC. I have also heard SSA and TH to a certain extent does the same thing.
|
|
|
Post by petrcechitout on Jun 7, 2018 9:00:16 GMT -5
Everything is a trickle down effect. I was told last night that there were 5 to maybe 15 kids on the bubble with a Tophat ECNL team, which caused a ripple effect to a lower team and the SCCL kids were told more will be cut after ECNL finalizes their roster. They also said kids are going to leave and go to other clubs and play at the same level as they could have at Tophat, which says a lot in my opinion.
|
|
|
Post by soccerlegacy on Jun 7, 2018 10:00:26 GMT -5
Hopefully both the ECNL and DA teams are in close proximity to practice or scrimmage together. If that is the case, make sure your kid works hard in those settings to show they belong on that team. And as the parent, you always have to remind the coaches what was "promised". Some coaches will conveniently forget what was said at tryouts. Sorry, but this is naive thinking. Coaches don't want to be reminded of what they promised and I doubt any will want it thrown back in there face. Sure, try hard at practice and hope for the best, but just know that the likelihood is that your child will most likely be where they are for the year. I don't mean to sound harsh, just realistic... and I only say this because I was once naive and only recently experienced this similar scenario, along with approx. 4-5 other players and parents from our team designated as DP's. Even in writing, they have amnesia... well... not amnesia, they just don't want to deal with being confronted with their own words. Trust me, having it in writing doesn't mean you can make it so, and even if you do, do you really want that hanging over your child's head.
|
|
|
Post by soccerballz on Jun 7, 2018 10:34:49 GMT -5
It all depends on circumstances, It's not naive, I've seen DP's make DA the next year. Yes, not all make it, but tryouts have been proven to not be correct before and players can make gains in ability and athleticism especially in the early age groups in 12 months. Because it didn't happen for your kid or others in your circle, doesn't mean it can't happen. And what do you have to lose for asking? Who cares if you piss them off. If your kids is already being sidelined and they don't respond, then you know where you stand and move on the next year. You just can't stand around hoping, worrying. Of course this all depends on who your kid is and if they can step up and help you make the case. But you must be realistic about your kids ability.
|
|
|
Post by soccerlegacy on Jun 7, 2018 10:47:28 GMT -5
It all depends on circumstances, It's not naive, I've seen DP's make DA the next year. Yes, not all make it, but tryouts have been proven to not be correct before and players can make gains in ability and athleticism especially in the early age groups in 12 months. Because it didn't happen for your kid or others in your circle, doesn't mean it can't happen. And what do you have to lose for asking? Who cares if you piss them off. If your kids is already being sidelined and they don't respond, then you know where you stand and move on the next year. You just can't stand around hoping, worrying. Of course this all depends on who your kid is and if they can step up and help you make the case. But you must be realistic about your kids ability. You're right! My apologies. Just because our experience was what it was, doesn't make it so for everyone. We (and I mean all of the DP's) were promised playing time during the year at tryouts, and very little was actually provided... even in writing... so I was doing a little venting!! But I also wanted to provide a cautionary tale that just because they say it, doesn't mean it will happen. I guess that is what I meant by being naive.
|
|
|
Post by striker89 on Jun 8, 2018 16:16:01 GMT -5
I know a girls Concorde DA to ECNLa player offered that exact deal yesterday from TH. You are on the DA bubble. Play with our ECNL we will give you up to six DA games and still play in high school. Soccerfan30 is understandabley a teensy bit biased against Concorde...and so am I but NO CLUB KEEPS IT REAL DURING TRYOUTS. NO CLUB. Winner winner chicken dinner! TH was telling several girls they were on the DA bubble and would get some games. First, TH didn't use hardly any DPs last year. Second, these girls aren't DA bubble kids. They are solid players to fill out TH ECNL 2nd team roster. It's a game of bait and switch--and knowing the kids they aren't DA bubble kids unless TH DA took a big hit. Help me understand this better. How much better is the training and level of play on say a TH DA team vs. a TH ECNL tier 1 team? What's the big attraction to the kids and the parents and why is this nugget being dangled? Is the training, level of play, coaching, etc.. that much better? Or is it just having the ability to say "I play on DA"? Does it really matter than much to college coaches if you DP on the DA team. Seems like being a top player on a top ECNL team would be much better. Any thoughts?
|
|
|
Post by enjoythegame on Jun 8, 2018 16:31:01 GMT -5
This happens at lots of clubs and at all levels. I have seen it 1st hand with both kids and with other families boys and girls.
I am curious if you reached out to anyone at CF and if they replied?
|
|
|
Post by daddyo on Jun 8, 2018 16:50:47 GMT -5
Last year at CF DA tryouts I was conveniently told by multiple coaches that my son was on the bubble for one of the few remaining spots. The very last day it was between him and another kid for the last position. The other kid did make the team and they placed my kid on a team two levels lower. Dirty thing holding kids hostage, I refused and moved him.
My other kid was told he would DP and he only practiced a couple of times but never played.
There is a fine line between quibbling and flat out lying.
|
|
|
Post by Keeper on Jun 8, 2018 17:03:16 GMT -5
Last year at CF DA tryouts I was conveniently told by multiple coaches that my son was on the bubble for one of the few remaining spots. The very last day it was between him and another kid for the last position. The other kid did make the team and they placed my kid on a team two levels lower. Dirty thing holding kids hostage, I refused and moved him. My other kid was told he would DP and he only practiced a couple of times but never played. There is a fine line between quibbling and flat out lying. One, that sucks but good for you for moving. Two, that’s the Concorde way perfected by Greg many many years ago.
|
|