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Post by oraclesfriend on Jun 5, 2018 21:11:27 GMT -5
I have seen this elsewhere as well. Sometimes I think coaches become blind to a player's abilities after a while. They think they have a kid all figured out and are not noticing their improvements, etc. Then they see someone new and see that person's upside and displace someone they know with someone they don't. Some coaches are notorious for this. Other coaches are the opposite and won't notice a good new player because they are biased towards the players they have taught and groomed to play their style. Works both ways.
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Post by be real on Jun 5, 2018 21:25:42 GMT -5
Thanks. My son has been at Concorde for many years. We got a call last night where he was demoted to a lower team and in less than five minutes got a call back from that coach saying it was a “mistake” and he would stay on his current team and then tonight we learned that a player new to CF who is certainly no better was placed on a higher team. We have not dealt with this at either TH or SSA (where our girls are) and where it truly seems like a soccer meritocracy. So sick of giving my money to CF where it always seems like the new less shiny pony gets more attention. Most clubs are like CF. If you're really looking for a promotion 90% of the time, you'll have to go elsewhere.
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Post by sailingaway on Jun 5, 2018 22:05:19 GMT -5
I have seen this elsewhere as well. Sometimes I think coaches become blind to a player's abilities after a while. They think they have a kid all figured out and are not noticing their improvements, etc. Then they see someone new and see that person's upside and displace someone they know with someone they don't. Some coaches are notorious for this. Other coaches are the opposite and won't notice a good new player because they are biased towards the players they have taught and groomed to play their style. Works both ways. This is so true of many players I have seen come and go from a club because they have been pigeonholed by a coach. Players can sometimes try and advocate for themselves when they recognize they are being bypassed, but ultimately most choose to switch clubs to find fresh eyes.
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Post by footy on Jun 5, 2018 22:09:08 GMT -5
This happens at many clubs, unfortunately. Go to a new club where your kid will be the new shiny one. He will be appreciated there.
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Post by soccerrealist on Jun 5, 2018 22:29:14 GMT -5
Concorde Girls tryouts were a joke! Poorly run and coaches didn’t even pay attention. Wouldn’t waste my time with this club.
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Post by Keeper on Jun 5, 2018 22:40:16 GMT -5
Concorde Girls tryouts were a joke! Poorly run and coaches didn’t even pay attention. Wouldn’t waste my time with this club. Which location and any age groups in particular?
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Post by soccerrealist on Jun 5, 2018 22:51:20 GMT -5
Central 00,01,02 ECNL/SCCL
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Post by crossbar on Jun 6, 2018 7:02:48 GMT -5
It’s absolutely true that many clubs will tab a kid as a first-teamer, second-teamer, etc. early in their development, and those labels tend to stick. The result is a kid who matures earl6 staying with a top team even after they’ve been bypassed by others, and late bloomers being stuck in the second team and unable to get a fair look. The solution in most cases is, unfortunately, to switch clubs and get a fresh look. In my experience, this issue is more common at larger clubs, though it happens to an extent just about anywhere.
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Post by daddyo on Jun 6, 2018 7:16:36 GMT -5
CF is special in so many ways:
1. Worst tryouts of any club I've ever witnessed. After 20 mins, separate their former top teams from other players without even looking or watching the "other players". They may leave a rookie coach to observe these new players.
2. Coaches behave like pompous arses!
3. I've never seen a coaches list presented before tryouts and rarely after.
4. Dishonesty throughout the entire process, they want to keep your kid all 3 days to make sure he stays with them so they can pocket your money.
I'll stop there, because when you're the Big Dog, you can do what you want and droves of parents keep showing up.
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Post by girlsoccer on Jun 6, 2018 7:27:51 GMT -5
Thanks. My son has been at Concorde for many years. We got a call last night where he was demoted to a lower team and in less than five minutes got a call back from that coach saying it was a “mistake” and he would stay on his current team and then tonight we learned that a player new to CF who is certainly no better was placed on a higher team. We have not dealt with this at either TH or SSA (where our girls are) and where it truly seems like a soccer meritocracy. So sick of giving my money to CF where it always seems like the new less shiny pony gets more attention. Most clubs are like CF. If you're really looking for a promotion 90% of the time, you'll have to go elsewhere. 3clubmom- so sorry to hear this. The roller coaster of emotions with this on the team-off the team-on the team stuff is exhausting. It does seem like this process would be smoother since tryouts happen every year, but unfortunately I don’t think anyone has perfected it. Best wishes to you and your son during this crazy and oh-so-difficult week!
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Post by soccerfan30 on Jun 6, 2018 7:30:03 GMT -5
How about promising one team and after signing day you find yourself on a lower team with the caveat you can play for the higher team at some point during the season which never comes to fruition?
You wouldn't believe how many former CF kids at NTH share similar stories.
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Post by daddyo on Jun 6, 2018 7:43:38 GMT -5
I've seen that at AFU before also
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Post by RedDevil10 on Jun 6, 2018 8:14:37 GMT -5
CF is special in so many ways: 1. Worst tryouts of any club I've ever witnessed. After 20 mins, separate their former top teams from other players without even looking or watching the "other players". They may leave a rookie coach to observe these new players. 2. Coaches behave like pompous arses! 3. I've never seen a coaches list presented before tryouts and rarely after. 4. Dishonesty throughout the entire process, they want to keep your kid all 3 days to make sure he stays with them so they can pocket your money. I'll stop there, because when you're the Big Dog, you can do what you want and droves of parents keep showing up. MOST unorganized tryouts EVER ! Seen good players overlooked and parents take their kids midway through 2nd day to go elsewhere. Heard a coach tell the same lie to 3 players
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Post by georgiasoccerdad on Jun 6, 2018 8:24:32 GMT -5
I've seen that at AFU before also TopHat has been known to do this as well. In fact, I would guess that most of the big clubs/coaches have done it from time to time.
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Post by infoguy on Jun 6, 2018 8:36:19 GMT -5
I have heard CF coaches don't watch "lower" groups separated the first day at tryouts. In fact, friends have seen coaches on their cell phones not watching... They're famous for that. Kids deserve 3 full days of assessment.
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Post by soccerlegacy on Jun 6, 2018 8:42:47 GMT -5
Yep, like most have stated, this is not just a CF thing. I have seen it at multiple big clubs. Here's another one I've seen at many clubs, big and small...
Coaches only watching maybe... maybe... a quarter of the tryout time actually watching the players. The rest is spent talking and laughing with the coaches with their backs turned to the players. I am curious if there are any coaches out there that can give some honest insight into why that is? This is an anonymous site, so please share.
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Post by soccerfan30 on Jun 6, 2018 8:43:16 GMT -5
I've seen that at AFU before also TopHat has been known to do this as well. In fact, I would guess that most of the big clubs/coaches have done it from time to time. Not really, maybe it's happened a few times but its not blatantly widespread like other clubs.
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Post by girlsoccer on Jun 6, 2018 8:55:57 GMT -5
I've seen that at AFU before also Agree with soccerfan30. There are isolated incidents of this but I do not believe it is a systemic problem at NTH. Doesn’t make it any less upsetting to the person it happens to, but I don’t believe it is a club issue there (and may not be at Concorde either. Could be isolated incidences there too? I have no experience with Concorde so don’t know personally).
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Post by soccerfanga on Jun 6, 2018 8:56:17 GMT -5
TopHat has been known to do this as well. In fact, I would guess that most of the big clubs/coaches have done it from time to time. Not really, maybe it's happened a few times but its not blatantly widespread like other clubs. We started competitive in another SE state, happened there too. It's not uncommon. Tryouts SUCK! So glad mine is a Senior. College soccer has got to be easier on these kids when you eliminate us parents.
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Post by surgesoccer on Jun 6, 2018 9:37:12 GMT -5
My experience has been that once teams are formed in an age group they tend to run in isolation. Top team practices when they do and other teams have different schedules. Sometimes they overlap sometimes not.
If I was running a club I would make sure that all the teams in one age group practice on the same nights, same times and same location. This way you could hold periodic combined practices to see how second team players stack up relative to first team, and third vs second, etc.
Finally I would make offers to parent's with the caveat that your player is currently on the first team, but if someone from the second team out performs them they may be moved to the second team. Better for a kid to go down to the next team to get more playing time, than stay on current team and sit more.
Now not sure how that would go over with parents but it would be what's best for the player. This would also require the different coaches to put their ego aside to allow a player that is successful and helping their team be promoted. I'm sure it's more complicated than this simple description but definitely doable.
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Post by soccerdad23 on Jun 6, 2018 9:49:11 GMT -5
If you assess a boys DA team at Concorde, how many boys were "developed" vs "recruited". With all the locations that CF now has it would seem they would want a message "we will coach your kid to move to the highest levels", but I keep hearing of boys(specifically) coming in from other clubs. Is there a talent development focus aspect missing at Concorde since they have the pull? Or is it happening but the recruitment gets more press? How do the kids/parents take this when the new faces are dropping in?
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Post by olderthandirt on Jun 6, 2018 10:49:13 GMT -5
It looks to me like you are trying to extend the Academy model into the older age groups - makes sense to me. However, the club and coaches involved have to really follow through with the idea.
A club with whom I am familiar (children do not play there) had the Academy Director and coaches preaching this very idea to the parents. The teams practiced together, but on game days there was never any movement between teams. There was a first team, a second team, etc., and not one player ever moved to a higher team over the entire last year. Not even when a higher level team had to play with a short roster due to illness.
After a while, the players and the parents knew that there would never be a change and just laughed(parents of the top level team) or grumbled (parents from the other teams) when it was preached.
I obviously didn't attend tryouts at that club this year, but I'd bet that the parents weren't buying whatever was being sold this year.
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Post by lovinsoccer on Jun 6, 2018 10:56:43 GMT -5
TopHat has been known to do this as well. In fact, I would guess that most of the big clubs/coaches have done it from time to time. Not really, maybe it's happened a few times but its not blatantly widespread like other clubs. Are you joking? I happens all the time at NTH. Not sure what rock you are living under.
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Post by be real on Jun 6, 2018 11:18:23 GMT -5
It looks to me like you are trying to extend the Academy model into the older age groups - makes sense to me. However, the club and coaches involved have to really follow through with the idea. A club with whom I am familiar (children do not play there) had the Academy Director and coaches preaching this very idea to the parents. The teams practiced together, but on game days there was never any movement between teams. There was a first team, a second team, etc., and not one player ever moved to a higher team over the entire last year. Not even when a higher level team had to play with a short roster due to illness. After a while, the players and the parents knew that there would never be a change and just laughed(parents of the top level team) or grumbled (parents from the other teams) when it was preached. I obviously didn't attend tryouts at that club this year, but I'd bet that the parents weren't buying whatever was being sold this year. It takes a coach, club, kids, and parents to really buy into the player pool philosophy. Realistically, only AU could do this and do it well. So far, I haven't seen the commitment to development yet.
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Post by soccerfan30 on Jun 6, 2018 11:24:37 GMT -5
Not really, maybe it's happened a few times but its not blatantly widespread like other clubs. Are you joking? I happens all the time at NTH. Not sure what rock you are living under. It surely does not happen all the time, I've been there for nine years. Unless you have factual evidence just because you say so doesn't make it true.
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Post by be real on Jun 6, 2018 11:43:57 GMT -5
If you assess a boys DA team at Concorde, how many boys were "developed" vs "recruited". With all the locations that CF now has it would seem they would want a message "we will coach your kid to move to the highest levels", but I keep hearing of boys(specifically) coming in from other clubs. Is there a talent development focus aspect missing at Concorde since they have the pull? Or is it happening but the recruitment gets more press? How do the kids/parents take this when the new faces are dropping in? CF academy wins at a very good clip. As such, kids come and go. Some kids are recruited but a lot of kids come on their own. Some coaches are better than others at development. Just like any other club in Atlanta. Parents should know that all competitive clubs operate the same way.
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Post by Futsal Gawdess on Jun 6, 2018 11:55:10 GMT -5
If you assess a boys DA team at Concorde, how many boys were "developed" vs "recruited". With all the locations that CF now has it would seem they would want a message "we will coach your kid to move to the highest levels", but I keep hearing of boys(specifically) coming in from other clubs. Is there a talent development focus aspect missing at Concorde since they have the pull? Or is it happening but the recruitment gets more press? How do the kids/parents take this when the new faces are dropping in? I'm sorry but in my experience, I don't believe CF cares about a developmental focus. Do the words "Boom Ball" ring a bell? Their club's development plan goes a little something like this: - Early years of academy, choose the biggest and fastest so they dominate; - Middle years, rinse repeat, throw in a scholarship; - Latter years, recruit from the other clubs in MASL, collate talent and win; They do have some individual coaches that care about development et.al. Let's not belittle their track record of winning. They do that very well. They also do well in getting your kids on to Nat'l Teams and college. But in my opinion, you go to CF in your latter years once your fundamentals are rock solid from someone else.
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Post by Futsal Gawdess on Jun 6, 2018 11:58:49 GMT -5
If you assess a boys DA team at Concorde, how many boys were "developed" vs "recruited". With all the locations that CF now has it would seem they would want a message "we will coach your kid to move to the highest levels", but I keep hearing of boys(specifically) coming in from other clubs. Is there a talent development focus aspect missing at Concorde since they have the pull? Or is it happening but the recruitment gets more press? How do the kids/parents take this when the new faces are dropping in? CF academy wins at a very good clip. As such, kids come and go. Some kids are recruited but a lot of kids come on their own. Some coaches are better than others at development. Just like any other club in Atlanta. Parents should know that all competitive clubs operate the same way. True, because winning is the best way to convince parents that you're a good club. I agree with most of what you said, but I disagree with your last statement. I think there are clubs in the MASL that do research, develop and implement a club-wide philosophy on fitness, playing, possession, tactics and focus less on winning.
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Post by fridge on Jun 6, 2018 12:46:29 GMT -5
It's tryout time and so, even this forum with a more elevated and intellectual approach can't control the try out spin doctors. First, this is the time of the year where it is chaotic and traumatic if especially if your a bubble kid. My kids have all played at high level for CF. CF is not bullet proof-- It clearly could communicate better for example. But, the development has always been very good. (Girl side there is no boom ball.) No national team kid has transferred to CF (like TH), but many have gotten on the national team pool after being with CF for several years or a at least a couple years. The top teams are clearly doing something right. Also, this is the "reality check" time of the year. I have had a kid who was on the bubble and I was able to recognize it no matter how hurtful it was to my kid. The reality is that coaches at the highest levels need to win, so you are doing your kid a disservice if you are "blaming it on the system" or some sort of "conspiracy against your kid." Your friends can't be honest and tell you, "Actually Debbie, your daughter really shouldn't make the team." Rather, they say, "Man, I'm surprised your daughter didn't make it. That's really tough." If you are a top team kid, find a top team at another club. In an aggragate of 30 years of club soccer with all my kids I have NEVER seen a kid cut, go to another team, and then say "man we made a serious mistake in cutting that kid." Be mindful, it can't always be someone else's fault. Sometimes it is the reality and it is better to realistically self-assess now so it helps your kid in the real world when things really may not be fair!
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Post by soccernotfootball on Jun 6, 2018 12:48:24 GMT -5
If you assess a boys DA team at Concorde, how many boys were "developed" vs "recruited". With all the locations that CF now has it would seem they would want a message "we will coach your kid to move to the highest levels", but I keep hearing of boys(specifically) coming in from other clubs. Is there a talent development focus aspect missing at Concorde since they have the pull? Or is it happening but the recruitment gets more press? How do the kids/parents take this when the new faces are dropping in? I'm sorry but in my experience, I don't believe CF cares about a developmental focus. Do the words "Boom Ball" ring a bell? Their club's development plan goes a little something like this: - Early years of academy, choose the biggest and fastest so they dominate; - Middle years, rinse repeat, throw in a scholarship; - Latter years, recruit from the other clubs in MASL, collate talent and win; They do have some individual coaches that care about development et.al. Let's not belittle their track record of winning. They do that very well. They also do well in getting your kids on to Nat'l Teams and college. But in my opinion, you go to CF in your latter years once your fundamentals are rock solid from someone else. I'm sorry but in MY (also anecdotal) experience, I have never seen a CF team only make due with "boom ball". Granted, our experience may be more limited than yours. However, from Pre-Academy through U12, played vs Elite, Black, White, and Red - not one team played boom ball. All teams played from the back and "the right way". Now, various teams had different levels of skills and speed, but again, every team I've seen from CF tried to play the game as we all envision it and not boom ball.
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