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Post by 442player on Jun 22, 2018 20:08:35 GMT -5
U-17 KSA Still rolling
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Post by soccerpsych on Jun 24, 2018 7:54:36 GMT -5
Glad to see Georgia teams doing well. I imagine this will cause an uproar, but in my opinion, seeing two players on the KSA 01 roster that played for AU DA this year puts a bit of a damper on their success. That doesn’t include their playmaker with questionable paperwork. To me, this is one of the primary issues with US youth soccer and development. The same can be said for the many posts about ECNL players guest playing in State Cup. Most people shrug their shoulders at this, knowing it is ridiculous, but technically legal, even though it hurts the players who are replaced. Unfortunately until rules are changed or enforced, the “competitions” will also bring about more shoulder shrugging and decreased player development. Just my two cents.
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Post by crossbar on Jun 24, 2018 11:51:43 GMT -5
Glad to see Georgia teams doing well. I imagine this will cause an uproar, but in my opinion, seeing two players on the KSA 01 roster that played for AU DA this year puts a bit of a damper on their success. That doesn’t include their playmaker with questionable paperwork. To me, this is one of the primary issues with US youth soccer and development. The same can be said for the many posts about ECNL players guest playing in State Cup. Most people shrug their shoulders at this, knowing it is ridiculous, but technically legal, even though it hurts the players who are replaced. Unfortunately until rules are changed or enforced, the “competitions” will also bring about more shoulder shrugging and decreased player development. Just my two cents. To be able to play, the players would have to have left the AU DA program first. Right? Presumably AU wouldn't allow them to continue on in the DA program under these circumstances. In that case, why would that taint the performance of their new team? If a kid plays DA and then decides to stop, why should they be prevented from playing for a different club in an entirely different league? As for the ECNL thing, that's a little different (to me) even if the players aren't at the same levels as the AU defectors. In that case, a club is double rostering their ECNL players and then playing them "down" for State Cup, etc. in place of the regular players on their USYS-registered team. That's different (again, imho) than a kid deciding to leave DA and join a USYS-affiliated team. I'm not defending KSA here, just making a general point/observation.
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Post by soccerparent02 on Jun 24, 2018 12:01:01 GMT -5
There is no difference. ECNL not governed by Georgia Soccer. The clubs can play those players where they want including "dropping" them back to state cup.
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Post by oraclesfriend on Jun 24, 2018 12:07:07 GMT -5
Two points to make...first there are a lot of assumptions you are making about "defecting" AU versus just temporarily playing with KSA. AU could be just fine with this plan. Alternatively they may not have made the AU team for next year (being cut). Still the point is that much like ECNL players, they have not played with this team all year and thus are not part of the team that earned the spot. In fact I would argue that the ECNL players are at least from the same club in the same playing season so have more right to be there than AU players that left, got cut, or are temporarily helping their old club. Many of the "dual rostered" ECNL players have actually played on the lower team throughout the season, helping them earn that spot. I am not a fan of that either but that is how those clubs play the game. Secondly, I have a friend who plays college soccer (finished freshman year) and played for his 99 team at state cup. How is this allowed? Even worse than former DA players, current ECNL players IMO
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Post by ihave3girlz on Jun 24, 2018 13:54:19 GMT -5
SSA 05G through to quarter finals regardless of game outcome today with two wins already. Same entire team no new players...same entire team next year...same coach.
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Post by crossbar on Jun 24, 2018 14:00:15 GMT -5
Two points to make...first there are a lot of assumptions you are making about "defecting" AU versus just temporarily playing with KSA. AU could be just fine with this plan. Alternatively they may not have made the AU team for next year (being cut). Still the point is that much like ECNL players, they have not played with this team all year and thus are not part of the team that earned the spot. In fact I would argue that the ECNL players are at least from the same club in the same playing season so have more right to be there than AU players that left, got cut, or are temporarily helping their old club. Many of the "dual rostered" ECNL players have actually played on the lower team throughout the season, helping them earn that spot. I am not a fan of that either but that is how those clubs play the game. Secondly, I have a friend who plays college soccer (finished freshman year) and played for his 99 team at state cup. How is this allowed? Even worse than former DA players, current ECNL players IMO Playing in other competitive leagues is explicitly banned for DA players. This is a US Soccer mandate, so it's not up to the clubs to choose to waive it. The only way they could do it without AU getting into hot water would be if they are no longer affiliated with the program. As for players coming back from college to play in State Cup, that's a byproduct of the age structure. It was made even worse by the age mandate, when half of the players in the top age group will have left high school and moved on to college before they have aged out.
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Post by oraclesfriend on Jun 24, 2018 15:32:29 GMT -5
Two points to make...first there are a lot of assumptions you are making about "defecting" AU versus just temporarily playing with KSA. AU could be just fine with this plan. Alternatively they may not have made the AU team for next year (being cut). Still the point is that much like ECNL players, they have not played with this team all year and thus are not part of the team that earned the spot. In fact I would argue that the ECNL players are at least from the same club in the same playing season so have more right to be there than AU players that left, got cut, or are temporarily helping their old club. Many of the "dual rostered" ECNL players have actually played on the lower team throughout the season, helping them earn that spot. I am not a fan of that either but that is how those clubs play the game. Secondly, I have a friend who plays college soccer (finished freshman year) and played for his 99 team at state cup. How is this allowed? Even worse than former DA players, current ECNL players IMO Playing in other competitive leagues is explicitly banned for DA players. This is a US Soccer mandate, so it's not up to the clubs to choose to waive it. The only way they could do it without AU getting into hot water would be if they are no longer affiliated with the program. As for players coming back from college to play in State Cup, that's a byproduct of the age structure. It was made even worse by the age mandate, when half of the players in the top age group will have left high school and moved on to college before they have aged out. I am aware of the DA rules, but if they are out of season and/or have come off the roster... we know that this happens. Other posters have mentioned people doing it year after year.
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Post by turfmonster on Jun 24, 2018 16:53:06 GMT -5
Playing in other competitive leagues is explicitly banned for DA players. This is a US Soccer mandate, so it's not up to the clubs to choose to waive it. The only way they could do it without AU getting into hot water would be if they are no longer affiliated with the program. As for players coming back from college to play in State Cup, that's a byproduct of the age structure. It was made even worse by the age mandate, when half of the players in the top age group will have left high school and moved on to college before they have aged out. I am aware of the DA rules, but if they are out of season and/or have come off the roster... we know that this happens. Other posters have mentioned people doing it year after year.
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Post by turfmonster on Jun 24, 2018 16:58:22 GMT -5
Playing in other competitive leagues is explicitly banned for DA players. This is a US Soccer mandate, so it's not up to the clubs to choose to waive it. The only way they could do it without AU getting into hot water would be if they are no longer affiliated with the program. As for players coming back from college to play in State Cup, that's a byproduct of the age structure. It was made even worse by the age mandate, when half of the players in the top age group will have left high school and moved on to college before they have aged out. I am aware of the DA rules, but if they are out of season and/or have come off the roster... we know that this happens. Other posters have mentioned people doing it year after year. Exactly. If your team did not make DA play-offs OR you will not be rostered for play-offs/championship, your season is over ... you can “quit” DA for the remainder of the 2017–18 season, play USYS (at Regionals, for example) and then recommit in August for the 2018-19 season. Concorde has done this for years ... several DA players end up playing at Regionals, and then continue playing DA when the new season starts. A loophole in the rules, maybe? Not a fair one, in my opinion.
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Post by crossbar on Jun 24, 2018 18:36:15 GMT -5
I am aware of the DA rules, but if they are out of season and/or have come off the roster... we know that this happens. Other posters have mentioned people doing it year after year. Exactly. If your team did not make DA play-offs OR you will not be rostered for play-offs/championship, your season is over ... you can “quit” DA for the remainder of the 2017–18 season, play USYS (at Regionals, for example) and then recommit in August for the 2018-19 season. Concorde has done this for years ... several DA players end up playing at Regionals, and then continue playing DA when the new season starts. A loophole in the rules, maybe? Not a fair one, in my opinion. Right, but Concorde does this to their own benefit. Their own DA players drop down and play on their own USYS teams. There would be zero benefit to Atlanta United to look the other way when doing something like this, and they'd actually be taking some risk -- at least in terms of public perception and injuries. I'm not saying that it's not happening w/AU players, because none of us actually know, but it's hard to imagine them allowing this sort of behavior. Now, if the players were being let go by AU, it would be another scenario entirely and I could easily see it happening. In that case, a kid gets cut and catches on elsewhere. If they're coming out of the Atlanta United program, at least you can be fairly confident that their documentation is in order and they're playing in the right age group (or at least they have convincing paperwork to support it). My understanding is that they don't play things fast and loose like certain clubs, and have actually shied away from kids with questionable eligibility.
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Post by Soccerhouse on Jun 24, 2018 19:54:37 GMT -5
If a kid quits a DA program they can go do whatever they want except go play for another DA program without some official documentation and approvals
Kids quit DA all the time and join teams.
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Post by crossbar on Jun 24, 2018 20:11:10 GMT -5
If a kid quits a DA program they can go do whatever they want except go play for another DA program without some official documentation and approvals Kids quit DA all the time and join teams. Exactly. And as it should be. Imho, of course. Just because a kid decides to join a DA program doesn't (and shouldn't) take away their right to change their mind and go another direction.
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Post by soccerpsych on Jun 25, 2018 4:03:54 GMT -5
As stated in my original post, I am not questioning the legality of these practices. My original post was simply that in my opinion, the practice of adding DA players, only for State Cup and Regionals, brings along an asterik in most peoples minds to that accomplishment. Neither UFA or Concorde DA players played in State Cup or Regionals over the past two years. To my knowledge, only one USYS GA club added AU DA players specifically for these two events. Having said that, I do agree with other posters that a player leaving a team early in the year and joining another team/club during the qualification process is completely legitimate. In my opinion, the integrity of the competition is put into question when teams simply recruit and compile an essential all-star team in May for June competitions.
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Post by jash on Jun 25, 2018 13:55:50 GMT -5
Legal or not, if they quit DA so they can play for another team and have every intention of (and follow through with) rejoining DA, then this is the definition of "intent to cheat". If they have quit DA for good (or at least in all good faith believe they are doing so) then they are free to do what they want without me judging them (not that they care).
The legality of it has nothing to do with whether it is ethical.
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Post by soccermaxx72 on Jun 25, 2018 14:14:10 GMT -5
Proper ethics and Soccer rarely mix
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Post by oraclesfriend on Jun 25, 2018 15:17:20 GMT -5
To get back on topic of how the teams are doing...Georgia has two teams in the semifinals so far. O2 UFA Forsyth Premier girls and AFC 99 girls
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Post by 442player on Jun 25, 2018 17:21:29 GMT -5
To get back on topic of how the teams are doing...Georgia has two teams in the semifinals so far. O2 UFA Forsyth Premier girls and AFC 99 girls The Train has broken down for one team TODD
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Post by soccerpsych on Jun 25, 2018 19:06:34 GMT -5
Train?
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Post by hateallthesechanges on Jun 27, 2018 9:24:59 GMT -5
The following teams made it to semi's today: SSA 05 Girls UFA 02 Girls UFA Milton 00 Girls AFC 99 Girls KSA 01 Boys UFA 99 Boys KSA 99 Boys
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Post by 442player on Jun 27, 2018 15:19:01 GMT -5
The following teams made it to semi's today: SSA 05 Girls UFA 02 Girls UFA Milton 00 Girls AFC 99 Girls KSA 01 Boys UFA 99 Boys KSA 99 Boys Congrats to AFC girls and coach Steve. Great guy. Happy for them.
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Post by Soccerhouse on Jun 27, 2018 15:31:57 GMT -5
The following teams made it to semi's today: SSA 05 Girls UFA 02 Girls UFA Milton 00 Girls AFC 99 Girls KSA 01 Boys UFA 99 Boys KSA 99 Boys Congrats to AFC girls and coach Steve. Great guy. Happy for them. How many teams does that dude coach???
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Post by 442player on Jun 27, 2018 16:12:42 GMT -5
Congrats to AFC girls and coach Steve. Great guy. Happy for them. How many teams does that dude coach??? No clue but the guy gets it done. Maybe all directors should work this hard. He cares about his kids and his programs. Class guy. I would put my kids with him again if AFC was closer.
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Post by ihave3girlz on Jun 27, 2018 16:31:23 GMT -5
SSA 05 Elite shut out NCFC 2-0 to advance to the finals tomorrow.
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Post by 442player on Jun 27, 2018 17:06:50 GMT -5
SSA 05 Elite shut out NCFC 2-0 to advance to the finals tomorrow. Congrats girls good luck tomorrow. KSA 01’s advanced today
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Post by soccerloafer on Jun 27, 2018 17:40:54 GMT -5
How many teams does that dude coach??? No clue but the guy gets it done. Maybe all directors should work this hard. He cares about his kids and his programs. Class guy. I would put my kids with him again if AFC was closer. The AFC 99 girls are almost all returning college players, including several D1 starters. Not sure the coach gets much credit except for recruiting and handling subs. And keeping water bottles full.
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Post by 442player on Jun 27, 2018 17:50:12 GMT -5
No clue but the guy gets it done. Maybe all directors should work this hard. He cares about his kids and his programs. Class guy. I would put my kids with him again if AFC was closer. The AFC 99 girls are almost all returning college players, including several D1 starters. Not sure the coach gets much credit except for recruiting and handling subs. And keeping water bottles full. About standard post for you.
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Post by soccerloafer on Jun 28, 2018 14:33:28 GMT -5
Not sure exactly what that's supposed to mean. Just pointing out facts, which is what I always do. Possibly cynical and/or sarcastic, but always fully truthful.
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Post by atlsoccer on Jun 28, 2018 15:20:26 GMT -5
No clue but the guy gets it done. Maybe all directors should work this hard. He cares about his kids and his programs. Class guy. I would put my kids with him again if AFC was closer. The AFC 99 girls are almost all returning college players, including several D1 starters. Not sure the coach gets much credit except for recruiting and handling subs. And keeping water bottles full. The roster looks like it is made up of several college players, but they are almost all kids he coached in youth. This might not have been the best plan though, several kids did not travel to regionals and they even called up an 02. I also heard he only had 11 players for the semi, and maybe 12 for the finals, even with adding younger kids. Can anyone confirm?
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Post by Soccerhouse on Jun 28, 2018 16:04:39 GMT -5
The legend of Deedson continues:
17U Boys PPA KSA 01 Pro-Profile (GA) defeated Solar 01 Sticker (TX-N), 2-1, to claim the 17U Boys Southern Regional title. Robert Pino put Solar up in just the third minute of play but KSA immediately answered to keep the score level thanks to Fabian Rivas. The play went back and forth in an intense matchup. KSA held on, despite being a man down and scored in the 84th minute when Deedson Vixamar beat the keeper to put his team into a 2-1 lead. Each team had chances in the final few minutes but the KSA defense held on to send the Georgia side through to Nationals.
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