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Post by Keeper on Oct 1, 2018 10:44:27 GMT -5
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Post by Futsal Gawdess on Oct 1, 2018 13:21:37 GMT -5
It is unfortunately a goal. The referee is a part of the field, no different than when it bounces off of the crossbar or the post. The question I have is the players seem older, why are they playing and taking a PK on a truly small field or box 18?
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Post by rocko1989 on Oct 1, 2018 15:16:19 GMT -5
I am guessing this is some small sided game/league.
The correct call is goal.
The smart thing to do is claim a head injury and get out of there before the inevitable chaos occurs after the ref declares it is a goal. Once he declares a goal, there is a high probability the players will vehemently express their disagreement, and then we get to see one of those videos where players chase a ref.
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Post by zizou on Oct 1, 2018 15:20:48 GMT -5
The reasonable thing is for the team that benefitted from this unfortunate occurrence to allow the other team to score unimpeded. Then get back to competitive play.
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Post by soccerloafer on Oct 1, 2018 15:23:09 GMT -5
Can't tell you how many times I've had to stop myself from finishing a cross or ripping a shot when the opportunity presents itself. It's hard to take the player out of the referee... We get into the game, too...
I think AR's should be used for wall passes - limited to one touch of course. No crosses, must play back to the original passer...
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Post by rocko1989 on Oct 1, 2018 15:53:36 GMT -5
The reasonable thing is for the team that benefitted from this unfortunate occurrence to allow the other team to score unimpeded. Then get back to competitive play. Not a bad idea. How many teams do you think would do what you suggested? I was once an AR on a very competitive youth match. The ref awarded a VERY questionable PK. The coach of the team taking the kick called over his captain, and instructed him to kick the ball wide of the goal. The captain looked at the coach like he was crazy. The coach was emphatic, and said, “We are not going to win on some crap PK call. If we win, we better earn it.” The captain did as instructed. I think the coaches were friends, or at least had a healthy respect for one another. As a side note: that team later did score a pretty amazing goal and won 2-1.
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Post by Soccerhouse on Oct 2, 2018 7:12:48 GMT -5
The reasonable thing is for the team that benefitted from this unfortunate occurrence to allow the other team to score unimpeded. Then get back to competitive play. Not a bad idea. How many teams do you think would do what you suggested? I was once an AR on a very competitive youth match. The ref awarded a VERY questionable PK. The coach of the team taking the kick called over his captain, and instructed him to kick the ball wide of the goal. The captain looked at the coach like he was crazy. The coach was emphatic, and said, “We are not going to win on some crap PK call. If we win, we better earn it.” The captain did as instructed. I think the coaches were friends, or at least had a healthy respect for one another. As a side note: that team later did score a pretty amazing goal and won 2-1. I've said something similar like that in the past, but have never seen it implemented. We have been awarded a pk before that was bogus, and was hoping the coach would have instructed the player to do that. What made it worse, is it already was like a 4-0 game.
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Post by oraclesfriend on Oct 2, 2018 7:50:17 GMT -5
Not a bad idea. How many teams do you think would do what you suggested? I was once an AR on a very competitive youth match. The ref awarded a VERY questionable PK. The coach of the team taking the kick called over his captain, and instructed him to kick the ball wide of the goal. The captain looked at the coach like he was crazy. The coach was emphatic, and said, “We are not going to win on some crap PK call. If we win, we better earn it.” The captain did as instructed. I think the coaches were friends, or at least had a healthy respect for one another. As a side note: that team later did score a pretty amazing goal and won 2-1. I've said something similar like that in the past, but have never seen it implemented. We have been awarded a pk before that was bogus, and was hoping the coach would have instructed the player to do that. What made it worse, is it already was like a 4-0 game. At the younger age groups (u12 for one kid and U9 for the other) both of my kids had a coach that told the ref to give the team a goal kick after PK situations that were legitimate but when the score was too lopsided. It confuses the heck out of the ref but it is good sportsmanship. The other option of kicking it wide is also nice, but harder to get the player on board with and with young kids their attempt to kick wide might actually go into the corner due to poor accuracy. Either way I like the point which is that the kids are there to learn and play the game and have fun. I have a TON of respect for the coach that told his player that if they were going to win they were going to earn it, not win on a bogus PK. Kudos to that coach!
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Post by alacrity174 on Oct 3, 2018 12:17:08 GMT -5
I've said something similar like that in the past, but have never seen it implemented. We have been awarded a pk before that was bogus, and was hoping the coach would have instructed the player to do that. What made it worse, is it already was like a 4-0 game. At the younger age groups (u12 for one kid and U9 for the other) both of my kids had a coach that told the ref to give the team a goal kick after PK situations that were legitimate but when the score was too lopsided. It confuses the heck out of the ref but it is good sportsmanship. The other option of kicking it wide is also nice, but harder to get the player on board with and with young kids their attempt to kick wide might actually go into the corner due to poor accuracy. Either way I like the point which is that the kids are there to learn and play the game and have fun. I have a TON of respect for the coach that told his player that if they were going to win they were going to earn it, not win on a bogus PK. Kudos to that coach! Although from your perspective this might seem a good idea and "good sportsmanship", but how does that translate to the players learning how to play and add to the development of the young referee. If a PK is the right call then it should be adhered to.
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Post by oraclesfriend on Oct 3, 2018 12:42:37 GMT -5
At the younger age groups (u12 for one kid and U9 for the other) both of my kids had a coach that told the ref to give the team a goal kick after PK situations that were legitimate but when the score was too lopsided. It confuses the heck out of the ref but it is good sportsmanship. The other option of kicking it wide is also nice, but harder to get the player on board with and with young kids their attempt to kick wide might actually go into the corner due to poor accuracy. Either way I like the point which is that the kids are there to learn and play the game and have fun. I have a TON of respect for the coach that told his player that if they were going to win they were going to earn it, not win on a bogus PK. Kudos to that coach! Although from your perspective this might seem a good idea and "good sportsmanship", but how does that translate to the players learning how to play and add to the development of the young referee. If a PK is the right call then it should be adhered to. I don't think it affects referee development at all. The coach just explained to the ref that we are beating this team 12-0 (in one case at U12) and 12-2 (the other case at U9). Both cases involved inadvertent hand balls but with the arm in an unnatural position. The U12 kids it didn't affect the learning of those girls at all as they all knew exactly why we were waving off the PK due to an unfortunate bounce. For the U9's those kids are so confused anyway they don't even realize what the coach did. They are still at the point where they don't understand the difference between a goal kick and when the goalie picks up the ball and places it down inside the box to play it out so I am not sure the waving off of a PK registersnin their minds at all. If either case had been a blatant foul then your point might be valid and waving it off could just open up the game to more intentional fouling, but in these two cases the coaches were just trying to minimize the damage.
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Post by alacrity174 on Oct 3, 2018 13:23:25 GMT -5
Although from your perspective this might seem a good idea and "good sportsmanship", but how does that translate to the players learning how to play and add to the development of the young referee. If a PK is the right call then it should be adhered to. I don't think it affects referee development at all. The coach just explained to the ref that we are beating this team 12-0 (in one case at U12) and 12-2 (the other case at U9). Both cases involved inadvertent hand balls but with the arm in an unnatural position. The U12 kids it didn't affect the learning of those girls at all as they all knew exactly why we were waving off the PK due to an unfortunate bounce. For the U9's those kids are so confused anyway they don't even realize what the coach did. They are still at the point where they don't understand the difference between a goal kick and when the goalie picks up the ball and places it down inside the box to play it out so I am not sure the waving off of a PK registersnin their minds at all. If either case had been a blatant foul then your point might be valid and waving it off could just open up the game to more intentional fouling, but in these two cases the coaches were just trying to minimize the damage. What "damage" U9 & U12 are not competitive and the score is not kept anywher. The Coach should never exude overt pressure on a referee, especially a younger ref. This will and does then influence them on other decisions made during a game where they then look to the coach for further validation.
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Post by oraclesfriend on Oct 3, 2018 14:40:42 GMT -5
I don't think it affects referee development at all. The coach just explained to the ref that we are beating this team 12-0 (in one case at U12) and 12-2 (the other case at U9). Both cases involved inadvertent hand balls but with the arm in an unnatural position. The U12 kids it didn't affect the learning of those girls at all as they all knew exactly why we were waving off the PK due to an unfortunate bounce. For the U9's those kids are so confused anyway they don't even realize what the coach did. They are still at the point where they don't understand the difference between a goal kick and when the goalie picks up the ball and places it down inside the box to play it out so I am not sure the waving off of a PK registersnin their minds at all. If either case had been a blatant foul then your point might be valid and waving it off could just open up the game to more intentional fouling, but in these two cases the coaches were just trying to minimize the damage. What "damage" U9 & U12 are not competitive and the score is not kept anywher. The Coach should never exude overt pressure on a referee, especially a younger ref. This will and does then influence them on other decisions made during a game where they then look to the coach for further validation. I think you are taking this too seriously. The "damage" is the score differential. Whether or not the score is recorded is irrelevant to the children on the pitch. Believe it or not these children do keep score in their heads and losing 12-0 is demoralizing. My team happened to be on the winning side of both of these contests and the parents and the players of the winning side didn't care about the waving off of the PK. Why do you? And who said it was a young ref? The first game, which was 2 years ago BTW, had a ref in his 50's. The second game had a youngish ref. And there was no pressure by the coach. He just said "hey! We are good. Let them have a goal kick." You are being strangely oversensitive about this. Why? What is your point? Who are you trying to defend here? I thought it was a nice gesture by the coaches (two different guys) in these situations. You obviously don't, but I don't see why you are pushing the issue. No one was harmed by this.
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Post by alacrity174 on Oct 15, 2018 15:58:19 GMT -5
What "damage" U9 & U12 are not competitive and the score is not kept anywher. The Coach should never exude overt pressure on a referee, especially a younger ref. This will and does then influence them on other decisions made during a game where they then look to the coach for further validation. I think you are taking this too seriously. The "damage" is the score differential. Whether or not the score is recorded is irrelevant to the children on the pitch. Believe it or not these children do keep score in their heads and losing 12-0 is demoralizing. My team happened to be on the winning side of both of these contests and the parents and the players of the winning side didn't care about the waving off of the PK. Why do you? And who said it was a young ref? The first game, which was 2 years ago BTW, had a ref in his 50's. The second game had a youngish ref. And there was no pressure by the coach. He just said "hey! We are good. Let them have a goal kick." You are being strangely oversensitive about this. Why? What is your point? Who are you trying to defend here? I thought it was a nice gesture by the coaches (two different guys) in these situations. You obviously don't, but I don't see why you are pushing the issue. No one was harmed by this. Not pushing or being "overly sensitive", the problem is when do you let a ref decide which of the LoTG to enforce and which to ignore? It isn't for a coach to decide either. In isolation seems fine, but in the next game young player does exactly the same and a penalty is the call, correct call as well but now young player is totally blindsided, parent are shouting "but in the lat game it was a goal kick" and ref is totally confused now as he/she made the right call. Everybody h their own opinion of refs but the biggest thing you will hear from any coach or player is consistency, this isn't consistent.
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Post by oraclesfriend on Oct 15, 2018 16:15:26 GMT -5
I think you are taking this too seriously. The "damage" is the score differential. Whether or not the score is recorded is irrelevant to the children on the pitch. Believe it or not these children do keep score in their heads and losing 12-0 is demoralizing. My team happened to be on the winning side of both of these contests and the parents and the players of the winning side didn't care about the waving off of the PK. Why do you? And who said it was a young ref? The first game, which was 2 years ago BTW, had a ref in his 50's. The second game had a youngish ref. And there was no pressure by the coach. He just said "hey! We are good. Let them have a goal kick." You are being strangely oversensitive about this. Why? What is your point? Who are you trying to defend here? I thought it was a nice gesture by the coaches (two different guys) in these situations. You obviously don't, but I don't see why you are pushing the issue. No one was harmed by this. Not pushing or being "overly sensitive", the problem is when do you let a ref decide which of the LoTG to enforce and which to ignore? It isn't for a coach to decide either. In isolation seems fine, but in the next game young player does exactly the same and a penalty is the call, correct call as well but now young player is totally blindsided, parent are shouting "but in the lat game it was a goal kick" and ref is totally confused now as he/she made the right call. Everybody h their own opinion of refs but the biggest thing you will hear from any coach or player is consistency, this isn't consistent. Ok. Well maybe I am just giving people too much credit for intelligence. It was clearly obvious to me that all of the parents understood and in the U12 game all of the players understood why they were letting the call go. It was basically treated like in American football when you decline a penalty voluntarily. In the U9 game those kids have no memory for a one time thing like this. Trust me. I have two extremely intelligent children with excellent memories for just about anything, but ask them about a specific play that happened a few minutes ago at U9, U10 and they can't remember it. There is plenty of science that supports this. I absolutely agree that referee consistency is important. Try being the parent of a U9 or U10 kid currently where every ref treats the build out line differently. I just don't think that an agreement between coaches to let this go in a blowout is harmful to ANYONE including the referee. If he or she has a brain they know why the coach did this.
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