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Post by Strikeorkeep on Jan 23, 2019 8:04:43 GMT -5
I'd love folks opinions on the Academy age (u12 and under) and whats more important in development....technical skill or tactical style (typically each club has their own style of play)? Whats harder for a player to develop?
And say a child is excellent at one of those traits, can they be taught the other without sacrificing what they excel at?
Example: taking a fantastic tactical/possession style player and putting them into a style that wants to attack/1v1/play long balls. Or putting an technically savvy attacking player into possession style.
Do they lose what they are good at trying to adapt?
Just curious to hear folks opinions.
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Post by fridge on Jan 23, 2019 9:34:24 GMT -5
Interesting question. I think that technical skill rules the day by far. The kid needs a strong foundation which begins with a great first touch. Regardless of the system, without good technical skills a kid will not thrive in any style of play. Even if a player has world class speed, if he can't collect the ball at full speed or in tight spaces, his speed is neutralized. Also, there will always be a premium on players with good one/one skills whether it is a striker beating a defender to get to the corner or an outside back who is pinned and finds a way out of trouble without having to just "kick the ball out" or a mid who under duress can a make a move and switch the field. I'm interested to hear other thoughts.
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Post by mistergrinch on Jan 23, 2019 12:09:48 GMT -5
Have seen kids with good tactical skills and weak technical skills.. they get shuffled down to lower teams. Tactical doesn't show up in a tryout playing small sided games and doing drills.
Doesn't matter what style you play, you HAVE to have a technical foundation.
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Post by mightydawg on Jan 23, 2019 12:21:16 GMT -5
I don't know. I have seen a number of kids that are warm up/practice heros. They have all of the technical skill in the world while going through drills--they can shoot with both feet, control the ball, dribble with both feet, etc. You watch them warm up and think that you are about to witness some great soccer. Then you get them in the game and they completely disappear. The ball never seems to find them. They seem a step slow or they are just a little off from making a play. That's when you realize that they have no ability to read the game and anticipate the play and what is going to happen.
Obviously, kids with no technical ability will not be very good no matter how well they read the game. However, give me a kid who has a good first touch, can make accurate passes and really sees the field any day over the kid that I described above. Think Michael Parkhurst. He very rarely shows great technical skills because he reads the game so well and is in position to make the plays.
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Post by oraclesfriend on Jan 23, 2019 13:08:20 GMT -5
I don't know. I have seen a number of kids that are warm up/practice heros. They have all of the technical skill in the world while going through drills--they can shoot with both feet, control the ball, dribble with both feet, etc. You watch them warm up and think that you are about to witness some great soccer. Then you get them in the game and they completely disappear. The ball never seems to find them. They seem a step slow or they are just a little off from making a play. That's when you realize that they have no ability to read the game and anticipate the play and what is going to happen. Obviously, kids with no technical ability will not be very good no matter how well they read the game. However, give me a kid who has a good first touch, can make accurate passes and really sees the field any day over the kid that I described above. Think Michael Parkhurst. He very rarely shows great technical skills because he reads the game so well and is in position to make the plays. As they get older and on to a 11v11 field this is true, but I disagree that lack of tactical understanding is a problem at 7v7 and 9v9 which is what we addressing here. (I am presuming that this U12 and under player is not playing with the dirt or just plain clueless.) Plus your point of them never seeing the ball may be that their teammates lack vision or maybe don't want to send to a player they suspect will hold the ball with their great technique and not play in a team oriented manner. There are a lot of things that play into a player not seeing the ball depending on what position they play. Plus the most important technical skill IMO is a good first touch. Technical skill isn't only dribbling. All of the world's greats stress technique at the U12 and under and work more on tactical as they get to select aka 11v11. It is WAY easier to learn tactics when they are over 12 anyways. Most kids lack the ability to understand the abstract and nuanced that is soccer tactics until they are 12 or older. Teach them technical skills as a really young kid and have them use it with "selfish" play at U12 and under and they will be confident and skilled at it when they are older and then you can work on tactics. As to the original question of being taught one after learning the other I think there is a little loss of any skill if you drop your utilization of it but I have seen very good technical players retain that while getting very good at tactical play as well. It is harder IMO to become and UTILIZE technical play after being a very tactical player but it can be done as well.
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Post by datrain on Jan 23, 2019 13:22:40 GMT -5
I don't know. I have seen a number of kids that are warm up/practice heros. They have all of the technical skill in the world while going through drills--they can shoot with both feet, control the ball, dribble with both feet, etc. You watch them warm up and think that you are about to witness some great soccer. Then you get them in the game and they completely disappear. The ball never seems to find them. They seem a step slow or they are just a little off from making a play. That's when you realize that they have no ability to read the game and anticipate the play and what is going to happen. Obviously, kids with no technical ability will not be very good no matter how well they read the game. However, give me a kid who has a good first touch, can make accurate passes and really sees the field any day over the kid that I described above. Think Michael Parkhurst. He very rarely shows great technical skills because he reads the game so well and is in position to make the plays. I totally agree with mightydawg. My son played DA up in NY before moving here. Our then head of development used to run Everton's academy. He always preached that there is a huge difference between skill and ability. You can teach a kid skill thru drills and repetition. What you can't necessarily teach is ability. Taking a skill and using it under pressure in a game. We encountered lots of kids that had a ton of foot skills. But to really compete at the highest levels, you had to be able to read the field and anticipate what others are going to do (both your teammates and the opposition). It really was well said above, give me a kid who has a good first touch, can make accurate passes and really sees the field any day.
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Post by oraclesfriend on Jan 23, 2019 14:52:51 GMT -5
I don't know. I have seen a number of kids that are warm up/practice heros. They have all of the technical skill in the world while going through drills--they can shoot with both feet, control the ball, dribble with both feet, etc. You watch them warm up and think that you are about to witness some great soccer. Then you get them in the game and they completely disappear. The ball never seems to find them. They seem a step slow or they are just a little off from making a play. That's when you realize that they have no ability to read the game and anticipate the play and what is going to happen. Obviously, kids with no technical ability will not be very good no matter how well they read the game. However, give me a kid who has a good first touch, can make accurate passes and really sees the field any day over the kid that I described above. Think Michael Parkhurst. He very rarely shows great technical skills because he reads the game so well and is in position to make the plays. I totally agree with mightydawg. My son played DA up in NY before moving here. Our then head of development used to run Everton's academy. He always preached that there is a huge difference between skill and ability. You can teach a kid skill thru drills and repetition. What you can't necessarily teach is ability. Taking a skill and using it under pressure in a game. We encountered lots of kids that had a ton of foot skills. But to really compete at the highest levels, you had to be able to read the field and anticipate what others are going to do (both your teammates and the opposition). It really was well said above, give me a kid who has a good first touch, can make accurate passes and really sees the field any day. Skill and ability difference is very true. Our child's coach says the same. However, tactical play and technical skill are not the same as using your technical skill successfully. I get what both you and mightydawg are saying. The best players, though, are those that can do both. You can have a ton of technical skill and not beat people 1v1 because of many reasons. Some have nothing to do with tactics. The best players will be technical and tactical like Messi or Ronaldo. I don't think of beating people 1v1 having to do with tactics or field vision. That is APPLYING technical skill. Tactics is movement off the ball, seeing teammates' movement, finding the opponent's weakness and anticipating everyone's actions in combination with working as a TEAM. Tactics is about team. Technical skills is about individual. The two biggest things that I would mention is technical skills DOES include first touch in most people's minds. Tactics is not an easy thing to teach academy kids. We are talking about U12 and under. 8-11 year old kids don't need to be taught a lot of tactics. They need to be taught some basics, but that is it. Watch some little kid games and you will see that many kids are still confused about the difference between a goal kick and when the keeper picks up the ball in the box and wants to put it down to play it with their feet. Over half of them will put it on the 6 yard line as if it has to be there. It takes them months to sort out the difference between those things. As an aside I will say that I am not arguing this because I have a "technical" star player. I am arguing it because one of my kids was a tactical player. Best field vision. Picked out perfect through balls and sent people 1v1 versus the goalie more times than you can count. It wasn't until the technical skills got developed more that the acknowledgment came in the form of higher team placement. The younger child is getting an earlier technical development so that the same does not happen twice. Both naturally gravitate toward the smart plays and are being encouraged by coaches and parents and friends to stop sending the beautiful passes and start dribbling.
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Post by datrain on Jan 23, 2019 15:16:33 GMT -5
I think we are mostly in agreement. You must have a technical foundation. But you have to be able to apply it in a fluid game situation and you have the vision/anticipation/tactical understanding to elevate your game. Too often coaches are enamored with the proverbial "workout warrior" whose skills do not translate to real-time game situations. It is easier to coach and train a physical skill....it is much more difficult to educate a player about tactics. Much of that is intuitive and requires having spatial understanding.
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Post by Soccerhouse on Jan 23, 2019 15:22:06 GMT -5
You have to understand the game, and understand how to play through the lines and use the width of the entire field. I've seen so many kids that were flat out nasty at 6v6, 8v8, 9v9 but then never could adapt to 11v11.
First touch, first touch and work on first touch. Learn to receive the ball properly, look around before you receive the ball with your head on a swivel. Attack the space with a touch or 2 and then get rid of the ball. work to get the ball back and focus on your first touch and then your first touch again. Then repeat and work on your first touch some more.
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Post by mistergrinch on Jan 23, 2019 15:38:44 GMT -5
I don't know. I have seen a number of kids that are warm up/practice heros. They have all of the technical skill in the world while going through drills--they can shoot with both feet, control the ball, dribble with both feet, etc. You watch them warm up and think that you are about to witness some great soccer. Then you get them in the game and they completely disappear. The ball never seems to find them. They seem a step slow or they are just a little off from making a play. That's when you realize that they have no ability to read the game and anticipate the play and what is going to happen. Obviously, kids with no technical ability will not be very good no matter how well they read the game. However, give me a kid who has a good first touch, can make accurate passes and really sees the field any day over the kid that I described above. Think Michael Parkhurst. He very rarely shows great technical skills because he reads the game so well and is in position to make the plays. I totally agree with mightydawg. My son played DA up in NY before moving here. Our then head of development used to run Everton's academy. He always preached that there is a huge difference between skill and ability. You can teach a kid skill thru drills and repetition. What you can't necessarily teach is ability. Taking a skill and using it under pressure in a game. We encountered lots of kids that had a ton of foot skills. But to really compete at the highest levels, you had to be able to read the field and anticipate what others are going to do (both your teammates and the opposition). It really was well said above, give me a kid who has a good first touch, can make accurate passes and really sees the field any day. My daughter's coach calls this 'techniques vs skills'.
Do it vs cones.. you've developed good technique. Make it muscle memory where you can throw it against a defender.. you've developed a skill.
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Post by SoccerParent8 on Jan 24, 2019 0:16:57 GMT -5
The more information given the better, no? If you could help a team of players understand spatial awareness(tactics), dribbling with the purpose of creating an end product, wouldn’t be so bad. If you help a team of players understand their roles, maybe, they would be able to adapt to different coaching styles as they progress through their club careers. If you could achieve a balance in training where the emphasis is on technical ability and tactical awareness, could you not kill two birds with one stone by u13?
Lastly, it works a lot better when you work with the same people for an extended period of time. When you switch clubs 3 or 4 times from u9 to u12 it makes it hard to get a foothold on real “development” regardless of the coach. Also, in a lot of cases, the teams that are together the longest achieve the most collectively and individually.
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Post by mistergrinch on Jan 24, 2019 9:22:57 GMT -5
The more information given the better, no? If you could help a team of players understand spatial awareness(tactics), dribbling with the purpose of creating an end product, wouldn’t be so bad. If you help a team of players understand their roles, maybe, they would be able to adapt to different coaching styles as they progress through their club careers. If you could achieve a balance in training where the emphasis is on technical ability and tactical awareness, could you not kill two birds with one stone by u13? Lastly, it works a lot better when you work with the same people for an extended period of time. When you switch clubs 3 or 4 times from u9 to u12 it makes it hard to get a foothold on real “development” regardless of the coach. Also, in a lot of cases, the teams that are together the longest achieve the most collectively and individually. 1. yes, it's better to teach both.. but most kids really can't grasp tactics at 10yo Some can, most cannot.
2. It's not just club hopping.. it's also teams getting changed every year as kids develop differently. Not a lot of teams stay together as kids change clubs, get bored, improve dramatically, etc.. they end up on different teams more often than not. My daughter's team last year ended up split among at least 3 other teams (and that was with no transfers) - and the new team this year was made up initially of girls from SEVEN teams the previous year.
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