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Post by soccerworld1974 on May 18, 2019 17:04:40 GMT -5
Son and I had a chance to watch the SCCL/NPL showcase division at Fowler today. Overall quality was good but looks like the level are still all over the place. If you asked me without knowing whom was NPL and whom was SCCL, I would not have know. Don't know if that is a bad sign.
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Post by greenmonkey on May 18, 2019 17:18:47 GMT -5
So despite that the "pyramid doesn't lie" ... which is the joke from last year about NPL = SCCL unless you have both at the same club then NPL>SCCL.
I think the important thing when "comparing" the two leagues is this.
Both are US Club Leagues.
Both leagues have about the same number of teams per age group.
The South Atlantic Region of NPL is basically about 3 clubs in Atlanta and about 5 other clubs from NC (maybe a SC or TN Club?)
The SCCL league is basically 5 clubs from Atlanta and 3 clubs from AL or SC
Most people in SCCL will tell you that in any given game an SCCL team or two or three can beat an NPL team or two or three.
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Post by soccerworld1974 on May 18, 2019 17:47:37 GMT -5
Point made today.
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afu
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Post by afu on May 18, 2019 19:48:00 GMT -5
And here is why the AFU 05 NL girls are mad. The argument here is NPL vs SCCL 1. AFU NL whipped three NPL teams by a combined score of 6-0 and tied one NPL team 2-2.
Then we play in U15 Athena bracket for the spring when we are a U14 team . We beat the GSA North team who will be the 05 SCCL1 team this fall . That was that teams only loss , and we tied the LSA NL 05 team 1-1 (very good team ). We lost to that LSA 05 NL the next day .
Point us : the braintrust at AFU did not even fight for starting us out as SCCL 1. They stuck us at 2nd level .
We shall see what the team decides to do.
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Post by mistergrinch on May 18, 2019 20:08:38 GMT -5
AFU NL whipped three NPL teams by a combined score of 6-0 and tied one NPL team 2-2. You mean AFU NL + a few ECNL players.
Even their state cup roster has at least 2 starters from the ECNL team listed.
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Post by oraclesfriend on May 18, 2019 20:53:36 GMT -5
So despite that the "pyramid doesn't lie" ... which is the joke from last year about NPL = SCCL unless you have both at the same club then NPL>SCCL. I think the important thing when "comparing" the two leagues is this. Both are US Club Leagues. Both leagues have about the same number of teams per age group. The South Atlantic Region of NPL is basically about 3 clubs in Atlanta and about 5 other clubs from NC (maybe a SC or TN Club?) The SCCL league is basically 5 clubs from Atlanta and 3 clubs from AL or SC Most people in SCCL will tell you that in any given game an SCCL team or two or three can beat an NPL team or two or three. NPL is 3 Georgia teams and 5 North Carolina teams and 2 South Carolina teams (though one is in Rock Hill a suburb of Charlotte). This is for girls, not boys. Their set up is different and does include FC Alliance in Tennessee. Having played two SCCL teams I would conclude that the top few SCCL teams on the girls side are good enough sides to be competitive in NPL, but it drops off sharply in some age groups at the bottom of SCCL. The league is only one year old though. It will get better IMO. NPL is an afterthought for all of the North Carolina teams so I don't know how things will go long term. SCCL may surpass NPL or more clubs may jump on the SCCL bandwagon and make it a strong second team option and NPL may just fade away...or become the adjunct league that it used to be for some clubs and is still for others.
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afu
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Post by afu on May 18, 2019 20:58:11 GMT -5
nope. the only time we used ecnl was the 2-2 tie out of state with injuries . And one of their players was an ecnl guest so what’s your point ? When we beat the older GSA SCCL 1 team we had no ecnl . When we beat AFC NPL we had no ecnl .
Get your facts .
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Post by oraclesfriend on May 18, 2019 21:28:01 GMT -5
nope. the only time we used ecnl was the 2-2 tie out of state with injuries . And one of their players was an ecnl guest so what’s your point ? When we beat the older GSA SCCL 1 team we had no ecnl . When we beat AFC NPL we had no ecnl . Get your facts . So the "whipped NPL" teams are by what scores? You drew Discoveries 2-2. You beat CSA South 2-1 and AFC 3-0. What was the other score and team that was NPL?
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Post by OTPSoccer on May 18, 2019 21:40:49 GMT -5
For the pyramid watchers, I wanted to give a quick shout out to the Concorde 06 SCCL boys team which beat the GSA ECNL team 3-2 and UFA NPL team 4-2 today. Very impressive. And CF finished 3rd in the SCCL standings this spring.
Further evidence that some debates are best settled on the field. I’m not saying SCCL > ECNL. That’s not the case. But sometimes we parents care more about the patches on sleeves than the kids do.
Side note: I don’t have a kid at CF.
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Post by sportsdad on May 19, 2019 6:58:45 GMT -5
From what I observed and saw first had - The top NPL and SCCL teams can match up with a good competition where the game can go either way. After the top 2-3 teams, I see a greater drop off from 3/4 down in SCCL than NPL. Now, this varies widely in some age groups and boys/girls groups as there are ALWAYS exceptions. This also changes from club to club based on their alphabet soup participation and locations.
The SCCL/SCCL-P is going to be a cluster moving forward. From talking with a few parents, it seems like some fairly weak teams may stay in SCCL while their stronger club counterparts at a separate location go to SCCL-P. Further confusing the pyramid comparisons.
But we will continue to play along (clubs read that as pay along), have our disagreements about silly things and continue to participate in the madness.
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Post by soccerlegacy on May 19, 2019 7:20:35 GMT -5
From what I observed and saw first had - The top NPL and SCCL teams can match up with a good competition where the game can go either way. After the top 2-3 teams, I see a greater drop off from 3/4 down in SCCL than NPL. Now, this varies widely in some age groups and boys/girls groups as there are ALWAYS exceptions. This also changes from club to club based on their alphabet soup participation and locations. The SCCL/SCCL-P is going to be a cluster moving forward. From talking with a few parents, it seems like some fairly weak teams may stay in SCCL while their stronger club counterparts at a separate location go to SCCL-P. Further confusing the pyramid comparisons. But we will continue to play along (clubs read that as pay along), have our disagreements about silly things and continue to participate in the madness. I agree with your point that SCCL can match up with a solid competition against the NPL. So what you're saying is there is no drop off in the NPL after the top 2-3 teams? So anyone can beat anyone, and the standings will show all teams are within 1 or 2 losses of each other from 1st place to 10th place? Impressive...
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Post by oraclesfriend on May 19, 2019 7:21:20 GMT -5
From what I observed and saw first had - The top NPL and SCCL teams can match up with a good competition where the game can go either way. After the top 2-3 teams, I see a greater drop off from 3/4 down in SCCL than NPL. Now, this varies widely in some age groups and boys/girls groups as there are ALWAYS exceptions. This also changes from club to club based on their alphabet soup participation and locations. The SCCL/SCCL-P is going to be a cluster moving forward. From talking with a few parents, it seems like some fairly weak teams may stay in SCCL while their stronger club counterparts at a separate location go to SCCL-P. Further confusing the pyramid comparisons. But we will continue to play along (clubs read that as pay along), have our disagreements about silly things and continue to participate in the madness. It appears that UFA is trying to put their strongest teams in SCCL and the weaker ones in SCCL-P. If you look at the coaching projections you will see this. For example, in the 05 girls the Norcross team managed to win 1 game over both spring and fall and did manage to draw 3 this spring, but clearly has struggled in the league. Even the Norcross parents have told me that they feel they are not strong enough for SCCL. So they have projected the Norcross as SCCL-P and Forsyth Red as SCCL. Red improved greatly once they finally got a consistent coach and had a few months to settle in and would have been promoted to Athena A for the Fall 2019 if not for the SCCL. On the flip side the 03 Norcross girls team did very well in SCCL and thus will continue on in SCCL and the Forsyth Red team will be SCCL-P. The only problem that I see with this philosophy as it goes to SCCL placement is that you don't really know until after tryouts who you will have on what team. As a side note it is possible that the Norcross 03 girls team is better than the 03 premier team at Forsyth in which case they should be the NPL team...as I stated before though you really won't know until after tryouts and it is possible that SCCL is a more attractive league for people due to the decreased travel and maybe they WANT to stay SCCL. Who Knows?!?
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Post by sportsdad on May 19, 2019 8:24:12 GMT -5
From what I observed and saw first had - The top NPL and SCCL teams can match up with a good competition where the game can go either way. After the top 2-3 teams, I see a greater drop off from 3/4 down in SCCL than NPL. Now, this varies widely in some age groups and boys/girls groups as there are ALWAYS exceptions. This also changes from club to club based on their alphabet soup participation and locations. The SCCL/SCCL-P is going to be a cluster moving forward. From talking with a few parents, it seems like some fairly weak teams may stay in SCCL while their stronger club counterparts at a separate location go to SCCL-P. Further confusing the pyramid comparisons. But we will continue to play along (clubs read that as pay along), have our disagreements about silly things and continue to participate in the madness. I agree with your point that SCCL can match up with a solid competition against the NPL. So what you're saying is there is no drop off in the NPL after the top 2-3 teams? So anyone can beat anyone, and the standings will show all teams are within 1 or 2 losses of each other from 1st place to 10th place? Impressive...
"I see a greater drop off from 3/4 down in SCCL than NPL. " - my comment "So what you're saying is there is no drop off in the NPL after the top 2-3 teams?" - your comment So no. I never said nor implied that.
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Post by rifle on May 19, 2019 9:48:03 GMT -5
Leagues that don’t use promotion and relegation to “cull” the teams, exist only as a means of separating willing suckers from their money.
Disconnected leagues protect crappy coach paychecks and muddy pathway for standout players to find a higher level team. Club soccer is FUBAR and the state and US federation are complicit.
I have hopes that US Club actually has a plan to effectively replace the US Soccer federation but they can’t exactly declare that while they’re “under” US Soccer governance. The next five years should be interesting. And confusing. And expensive.
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Post by jjfutebol on May 19, 2019 11:46:04 GMT -5
From what I have seen, the top (boys) SCCL clubs can be competitive with NPL (and likely the middle/bottom ECNL teams).
Obviously, it hurts that these SCCL are mostly second teams with the exception of a few whose clubs don’t have any league above SCCL. From what I could dig up, the VHSC teams (AL) fall in this category - and likely why they won the Fall in most age groups. Hard to compare these teams during Spring games as SCCL teams had several ‘trapped’ players from the age above who played significant minutes. According to the SCCL website, we will see these teams play some NPL teams (or even ECNL?) at their National tournament in July - but by then who knows if the teams will have a similar makeup or coach!
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Post by ultimatedad on May 19, 2019 14:47:21 GMT -5
Us club soccer is fubar. It would be much better for the big 5 and little 5 if the company would go away and allow the Georgia soccer teams to play in the same league and not have to travel all over the country to play like competition.
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Post by atlsoccerdad on May 19, 2019 16:17:41 GMT -5
According to the SCCL website, we will see these teams play some NPL teams (or even ECNL?) at their National tournament in July - but by then who knows if the teams will have a similar makeup or coach! How can any of these teams hope to play in a Tournament that takes place AFTER tryouts?
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Post by jjfutebol on May 19, 2019 16:27:14 GMT -5
According to the SCCL website, we will see these teams play some NPL teams (or even ECNL?) at their National tournament in July - but by then who knows if the teams will have a similar makeup or coach! How can any of these teams hope to play in a Tournament that takes place AFTER tryouts? Not only tournaments but regular league play! SCCL or NPL are not the only ones doing this...ECNL is still playing regular season games and I was told by an AL parent that tryouts for them took place last week!!! Do you think kids that failed to make the 'new' squad showed up? or maybe there is pressure to keep last years kids?
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Post by oraclesfriend on May 19, 2019 16:59:07 GMT -5
How can any of these teams hope to play in a Tournament that takes place AFTER tryouts? Not only tournaments but regular league play! SCCL or NPL are not the only ones doing this...ECNL is still playing regular season games and I was told by an AL parent that tryouts for them took place last week!!! Do you think kids that failed to make the 'new' squad showed up? or maybe there is pressure to keep last years kids? This is nothing new about the tournaments. Think about US Youth Regionals and Nationals. ECNL and DA nationals. NPL finals. I agree though. It is hard on those not retained. It is also hard on the family summer travel planning.😉
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afu
Jr. Academy
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Post by afu on May 19, 2019 17:09:15 GMT -5
The other NPL team we beat was UFA NPL. Thanks for asking .
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Post by atlsoccerdad on May 19, 2019 17:14:08 GMT -5
This is nothing new about the tournaments. Think about US Youth Regionals and Nationals. ECNL and DA nationals. NPL finals. I agree though. It is hard on those not retained. It is also hard on the family summer travel planning.😉 Yeah, it wasn't the family summer travel planning I was talking about. It was wondering how any team could guarantee that the same players and coach would show up... I know typically several players hop clubs every season (because they want a better team or more playing time). I know that coaches want to replace / drop players every season... I know that sometimes coaches get new opportunities with different ages / leagues and even other clubs. It's just hard to imagine any teams remaining the same for any tournament in mid-summer unless its a top team that has stayed together for years.
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afu
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Post by afu on May 19, 2019 17:15:45 GMT -5
And the point is , the AFU NL 05 team is at worst very competitive with NPL and SCCL 1 upper teams .
For all the SCCL peeps out here that may not know this , let me tell you a truth: if AFU 05 SCCL 2 wins every game 10-0, but the other sccl teams at the club are bad , AFU 05 stay at SCCL 2!!!
In NL , you lose enough you drop. You win enough you rise . That’s what real life is about . SCCL either moves all teams up or none at all. That’s not a good lesson to teach our girls .
That came directly from AFU to us parents face to face .
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Post by soccerdaddy on May 19, 2019 18:12:11 GMT -5
And the point is , the AFU NL 05 team is at worst very competitive with NPL and SCCL 1 upper teams . For all the SCCL peeps out here that may not know this , let me tell you a truth: if AFU 05 SCCL 2 wins every game 10-0, but the other sccl teams at the club are bad , AFU 05 stay at SCCL 2!!! In NL , you lose enough you drop. You win enough you rise . That’s what real life is about . SCCL either moves all teams up or none at all. That’s not a good lesson to teach our girls . That came directly from AFU to us parents face to face . I’m sorry but I am missing your point, so you say that 05 AFU Girls SCCL 2 will win 10-0 every game and stay in 2 instead of 1? Your Girls should move up at the club Level not stay. Fight to play top level at your club if not go elsewhere to a different club to play. Sorry I don’t get your point? Please help me?
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afu
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Post by afu on May 19, 2019 18:29:57 GMT -5
Sorry for the misunderstanding . I didn’t mean they would win every game 10-0. I’m saying the team was told it didn’t matter how well we did that we don’t move up if the other AFU teams weren’t good enough.
The club itself moves up, not the team .
I was trying to say even IF we won them all 10-0 but the rest of the club was weak we would stay at SCCL 2.
That just isn’t right to me .
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Post by oraclesfriend on May 19, 2019 18:42:26 GMT -5
Sorry for the misunderstanding . I didn’t mean they would win every game 10-0. I’m saying the team was told it didn’t matter how well we did that we don’t move up if the other AFU teams weren’t good enough. The club itself moves up, not the team . I was trying to say even IF we won them all 10-0 but the rest of the club was weak we would stay at SCCL 2. That just isn’t right to me . I agree with you. Not really fair to an exceptional team. Hopefully it wouldn't be an issue anyway since AFU will have their second teams in it going against a lot of third teams. Interesting that they are taking that approach. It is mainly to make the travel consistent across the league. For ease of scheduling and the club travels together. I find it interesting that DA is also doing a club wide tiered system for this Cup competition they are having. Definitely odd.
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Post by soccerdaddy on May 19, 2019 18:58:23 GMT -5
Sorry for the misunderstanding . I didn’t mean they would win every game 10-0. I’m saying the team was told it didn’t matter how well we did that we don’t move up if the other AFU teams weren’t good enough. The club itself moves up, not the team . I was trying to say even IF we won them all 10-0 but the rest of the club was weak we would stay at SCCL 2. That just isn’t right to me . I agree with you. Not really fair to an exceptional team. Hopefully it wouldn't be an issue anyway since AFU will have their second teams in it going against a lot of third teams. Interesting that they are taking that approach. It is mainly to make the travel consistent across the league. For ease of scheduling and the club travels together. I find it interesting that DA is also doing a club wide tiered system for this Cup competition they are having. Definitely odd. Got it! Agreed 😃 I believe the AFU will promote moving up through the club so that it would be best for the players. They shouldn’t settle for The team you are on unless the player is happy to stay. They should go for the top teams and then keep shooting for higher, if they want to of course. Some players are happy to stay and play with friends until High School and then it ends but still there are great memories to cherish.
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Post by interestedspectator on May 20, 2019 7:47:03 GMT -5
next week in the semi finals will be interesting as I am sure you will see SCCL v NPL teams.
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Post by atlfutboldad on May 20, 2019 9:50:53 GMT -5
Regarding AFU 05 Elites (and the 2 boys NL teams)...AFU did what they felt was best for the club as a whole (the other 9 elite teams NOT in NL). AFU feels that the best soccer in the state is moving to club-based leagues rather than team-based (as do NTH, UFA, GSA, SSA, and Concorde). If you don't like it, sorry but you have to move on. You aren't forced to stay at the club. Tryout for LSA NL, GSA SCCL, UFA Norcross SCCL or even UFA Forsyth NPL, you have options. There isn't anything stopping the team from moving as a whole to another club.
How about the NTH 06G SCCL team that solidly beat GSA 06G ECNL team at the UFA Xtreme cup? Are they going to stay in SCCL and just coast through all their games 5-0 again in 2019-2020 or take the DPL plunge?
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Post by Strikeorkeep on May 20, 2019 9:55:30 GMT -5
Regarding AFU 05 Elites (and the 2 boys NL teams)...AFU did what they felt was best for the club as a whole (the other 9 elite teams NOT in NL). AFU feels that the best soccer in the state is moving to club-based leagues rather than team-based (as do NTH, UFA, GSA, SSA, and Concorde). If you don't like it, sorry but you have to move on. You aren't forced to stay at the club. Tryout for LSA NL, GSA SCCL, UFA Norcross SCCL or even UFA Forsyth NPL, you have options. There isn't anything stopping the team from moving as a whole to another club. How about the NTH 06G SCCL team that solidly beat GSA 06G ECNL team at the UFA Xtreme cup? Are they going to stay in SCCL and just coast through all their games 5-0 again in 2019-2020 or take the DPL plunge? We have friends on that 06 SCCL team and I bet 2-3 move up to DA, most to DPL and some will stay at SCCL due to travel of the other 2. A few on that team may go to other clubs too. Too bad they wont stay all together as they are pretty solid.
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Post by soccerlegacy on May 20, 2019 10:21:39 GMT -5
How about the NTH 06G SCCL team that solidly beat GSA 06G ECNL team at the UFA Xtreme cup? Are they going to stay in SCCL and just coast through all their games 5-0 again in 2019-2020 or take the DPL plunge? They are a great team... but not all the games were 5-0... they did have a couple games that were close in their league, mainly from that Concorde 06 SCCL team. They have a pretty solid team as well. It stinks that they had ECNL ripped away from them for next year.
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