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Post by Soccerhouse on Aug 1, 2019 20:45:35 GMT -5
Here we go : Sounds expensive for the non mls clubs in top tier Is there an opportunity to be promoted or relegated picture of divisions:
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Post by Futsal Gawdess on Aug 1, 2019 21:12:00 GMT -5
Is this why they took so long to release the schedule? In looking at the DA schedule, for both the Boys Cup and the regular season games, it looks like they are doing the same in the lower age groups with U15s and U16/17s. When you combine both regular season DA and DA Cup, they are coming out with about 18 games + 5/6. The MLS clubs do have the GA Cup that pushes them to approximately 30 games for the year but the non MLS clubs will have to schedule real meaningful scrimmages to get some good competition. This is all definitely setting up some High Drama down the line. DA on the boys side has always been known to have the best players in the country. I think moves like this do one of two things. Increase the chances of an MLS only league and/or water down the overall product of DA. It was already tough for folks to manage the already high costs associated with travel. Now US Soccer in their infinite wisdom chooses to expand the area travelled. Got my popcorn out, waiting to see the fallout from all these changes...
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Post by Soccerhouse on Aug 1, 2019 21:14:22 GMT -5
Richmond is in the south division!
The end is near.....
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Post by Soccerhouse on Aug 1, 2019 21:24:24 GMT -5
I asked if the clubs knew or were engaged in this discussion.
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Post by Soccerhouse on Aug 1, 2019 21:37:31 GMT -5
And a now a different travel schedule for the 19s then 17s and 15s - costs also just went up
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Post by Brinker on Aug 1, 2019 21:41:01 GMT -5
This is step one. Step two will be MLS leaving DA altogether and setting up their own Academy League in another year or two.
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Post by Futsal Gawdess on Aug 1, 2019 21:45:37 GMT -5
Taking the only local team in the Red division - AU, they are geographically located in the east but are listed in the Central Division, so they have to go to the following fellow eastern/central clubs to play them i'm guessing in a home/away format. The miles are listed for one way travel from Atlanta. When you double them, we're talking of something close to 9k+ miles. Do the travel budget on that 😨😨
- Toronto (1,000) - Michigan(725) - Chicago (700) - Orlando (450) - Miami (650) - Raleigh (400) - Columbus (550)
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Post by Futsal Gawdess on Aug 1, 2019 21:47:20 GMT -5
And a now a different travel schedule for the 19s then 17s and 15s - costs also just went up Now we know why the MLS clubs wanted to lock in future earnings, it just makes sense when you pay incur these types of costs. You have to ensure you have a real chance at recouping some $$$
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Post by Futsal Gawdess on Aug 1, 2019 21:48:55 GMT -5
This is step one. Step two will be MLS leaving DA altogether and setting up their own Academy League in another year or two. They may also choose to start defraying some of the costs by charging some type of a flat fee...
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Post by Soccerhouse on Aug 2, 2019 9:23:05 GMT -5
Another issue -- any clubs with the same coach for 17s and 19s now will have slightly different schedules, this is a problem.
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Post by crossbar on Aug 2, 2019 10:27:00 GMT -5
So UFA’s U17s win the southeast and make the Final Four, while Concorde U17s make it to the championship, and they both get moved down? Makes sense... Smh.
Yeah, I realize that the brackets pictured above are U19, but that (U19) is where this past year’s best U17s will (for the most part) be playing so the grouping should reward their performance.
And, if you want two "levels", there should be pro/rel between them.
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Post by 4theloveofsoccer on Aug 2, 2019 11:06:06 GMT -5
What a big mess with this MLS announcement. Interesting how this will affect other leagues (ECNL, NL, SCCL etc.) here local and national.
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Post by atlfutboldad on Aug 2, 2019 11:15:22 GMT -5
But would boys at the older age groups at CF/UFA really change streams now that late in their career?
MLS should have pulled out of DA entirely, this just makes things worse for the rest of the clubs.
I think if DA did this on the girls side you would see a pretty massive exodus of clubs in the 2nd tier back to ECNL.
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Post by soccerguru on Aug 2, 2019 11:34:49 GMT -5
This continuing fragmenting of the soccer leagues does nothing but destroy the integrity of the game played on the field. It's a sad state of affairs that the governing bodies can't get it right.
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Post by Soccerhouse on Aug 2, 2019 11:49:08 GMT -5
This continuing fragmenting of the soccer leagues does nothing but destroy the integrity of the game played on the field. It's a sad state of affairs that the governing bodies can't get it right. Been preaching this for years --- great quote.
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Post by allthingsoccer on Aug 2, 2019 12:53:42 GMT -5
really shows how disconnected the system is.
They need to just have an MLS league. the MLS clubs ONLY care about their MLS club. The regular DA stay the same. The winner of MLS plays winner of regular DA to determine National champion.
Or
Winner of MLS, Winner of DA, Winner of ECNL, Winner of SCCL play to determine National. or what ever.
This model of MLS playing MLS in DA is a big mistake. Plenty of top level clubs go toe to toe. USSDA needs to have payout tiers for clubs for making playoffs, winning division, semis etc.. Each local MLS has to contribute a small % for local development. (the clubs that make it to playoffs)
ODP needs to be FREE
OR
the MLS needs to just go ahead and merge with all local clubs in area. Local clubs would be paid feeder teams but still get a little resources $$ from the local MLS club.
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Post by allthingsoccer on Aug 2, 2019 13:06:00 GMT -5
Why should a local club care about development if the local MLS clubs will take the best players anyway. MLS club has to put a small skin in the game.
This also forces the local MLS to develop their own players and not just cherry pick from local clubs. They have the $$ to pay a little finders fee. The MLS club's marketing department could help promote that local club that they took 10 players from as well.
Promote/Market that local club. Say Concorde had a great year this year with 10 new Atlanta United players. UFA adds 10 new players to the Atlanta squad. InterAtl adds 3 new players etc.. you get the point. Create a marketing machine that benefits the local clubs through small $$ and lots of marketing.
Even as the years go by still promote the local clubs you pulled them from. As an example (just using them cause I know. Im sure UFA has a lot as well) is that Concorde has a lot of players on the U17 team for AU. I know of 11 players alone came from Ryan, JJ and Saxton's 04 teams. Thats huge!!
As a parent in the market why not try and find those coaches. shizat pay them a small development fee/ recruitment fee. These are local coaches not on payroll that are developing the talent.
So much can be done but someone has to lead.
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Post by Soccerhouse on Aug 2, 2019 13:17:12 GMT -5
you think this is a shot at US Soccer?
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Post by crossbar on Aug 2, 2019 13:31:23 GMT -5
I've been thinking about this a bit more. Not sure if the terminology in that graphic comes from USSDA or not, but it's disingenuous to refer to these as "Upper" vs. "Lower" tiers when it has nothing to do with performance. And I'm guessing there won't be promotion/relegation, so you *really* can't make claims that one is "higher" than the other. At the very least, run them as parallel leagues without pretending that the (mostly) MLS version is home to the best teams.
With that said, I don't think the USSF should be splitting them at all. As others have stated, if the MLS wants to do their own thing, they should just pull out of DA and do it. US Soccer is doing themselves (and the game) an enormous disservice by dividing things like this. Keep DA as the top/premier level for federation-based youth soccer in the USA. If pro clubs want to do something different, that's up to them. Don't wreck the system on their behalf.
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Post by Soccerhouse on Aug 2, 2019 15:20:22 GMT -5
you can see #ProRelForUSA 1-10 tweets below, but they compiled a list of clubs blindsided by this so far @beachsidesc @bostonbolts @bwgsoccer @cedarstarsfc @empireunitedroc @fcdelco2 @fc_westchester @met_Oval @newyork_SC @paclassics @seacoastunited @dallastexanssc @fcunitedda @indianafireda @ussda_Cleveland @lonestarsc_ntl @torosacademy @vardarmichigan @armadapro_DA @chargerssc @independence_sc @concordesoccer @imgasoccer @miamirushsoccer @nc_Fusion @richutdda @southfloridafc @united_FA @vdasoccer @westonfc_ussda @albion_SC @arsenalfcusa @barcaacademyaz @breakersacad @crossfireprmr @lajollanomads @_RealSoCal @svsocceracad @strikersirvine
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Post by Futsal Gawdess on Aug 2, 2019 19:17:52 GMT -5
So UFA’s U17s win the southeast and make the Final Four, while Concorde U17s make it to the championship, and they both get moved down? Makes sense... Smh. Yeah, I realize that the brackets pictured above are U19, but that (U19) is where this past year’s best U17s will (for the most part) be playing so the grouping should reward their performance. And, if you want two "levels", there should be pro/rel between them. Much like this nugget shared by Crossfire
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Post by gaprospects on Aug 2, 2019 20:14:13 GMT -5
I imagine the federation was left with a choice to either force more MLS v MLS matchups, or have MLS pull out of the DA entirely (which would arguably devalue the league further than this does). It was no secret that the majority of MLS vs non-MLS matches yielded a one-sided affair that doesn't benefit the pro club when trying to develop their players, and the academy directors had had enough. This is what they came out with.
IMO The biggest problems with this outside of travel/logistics, which appear to be a nightmare, are:
1) The placement of the non-MLS clubs appears to be completely arbitrary. AU's most consistent high level region opponent over the last 3 years was not Orlando, it was Weston FC. Sure, they will lose many players to Inter Miami, but they lose a bunch of kids to other MLS clubs every year including AU, and they always reload immediately. Now they're relegated. People have pointed out the examples of Crossfire, of Concorde and UFA, etc.
2) There appears to be no clear mechanism for moving teams between the stratifications, which I have to imagine is driven by MLS wanting to ensure highest level of competition.
I will be very interested to hear the thoughts of TA on this when he inevitably speaks on it with SDH, 92.9, or someone else. He stands to be one of the few people to theoretically benefit from this, but his aspirations for challenging his players appear to reach far beyond the DA anyway, so I really don't know if he'll be satisfied with the results.
As for whether or not the "Blue Tier" clubs will lose quality to other leagues, the DA will still be the primary mechanism for all USMNT and D1 collegiate scouting, and given the costs are bearable, I imagine most high-level players will continue on. Though I could easily see more seniors bailing for high school in the spring.
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Post by Soccerhouse on Aug 2, 2019 20:25:51 GMT -5
I imagine the federation was left with a choice to either force more MLS v MLS matchups, or have MLS pull out of the DA entirely (which would arguably devalue the league further than this does). It was no secret that the majority of MLS vs non-MLS matches yielded a one-sided affair that doesn't benefit the pro club when trying to develop their players, and the academy directors had had enough. This is what they came out with. IMO The biggest problems with this outside of travel/logistics, which appear to be a nightmare, are: 1) The placement of the non-MLS clubs appears to be completely arbitrary. AU's most consistent high level region opponent over the last 3 years was not Orlando, it was Weston FC. Sure, they will lose many players to Inter Miami, but they lose a bunch of kids to other MLS clubs every year including AU, and they always reload immediately. Now they're relegated. People have pointed out the examples of Crossfire, of Concorde and UFA, etc. 2) There appears to be no clear mechanism for moving teams between the stratifications, which I have to imagine is driven by MLS wanting to ensure highest level of competition. I will be very interested to hear the thoughts of TA on this when he inevitably speaks on it with SDH, 92.9, or someone else. He stands to be one of the few people to theoretically benefit from this, but his aspirations for challenging his players appear to reach far beyond the DA anyway, so I really don't know if he'll be satisfied with the results. As for whether or not the "Blue Tier" clubs will lose quality to other leagues, the DA will still be the primary mechanism for all USMNT and D1 collegiate scouting, and given the costs are bearable, I imagine most high-level players will continue on. Though I could easily see more seniors bailing for high school in the spring. How do you also drop this now vs begin the conversation to “implement” something for 2020-2021.
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Post by Keeper on Aug 2, 2019 21:03:22 GMT -5
So anyone else ready to start boycotting the mls, and that team that plays indoor soccer downtown? Otherwise expect a whole lot more of USSoccer/MLS not caring about youth programs.
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Post by rifle on Aug 2, 2019 22:28:09 GMT -5
#prorelforUSA
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Post by atlfutboldad on Aug 2, 2019 22:33:27 GMT -5
While the European model would be nice, our NFL/NBA/NHL/WNBA/MLB/college football/college baseball/college basketball/etc don't have youth academies either. Even if AU dropped its academy program altogether, the club's local impact on the sport should not be undersold. It gets kids in the state excited about higher level soccer and its local. We should have 2-3 USL clubs in the ATL area.
MLS division of DA would have been better than this MLS-plus-a-few-select-clubs approach would have been much better.
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Post by Futsal Gawdess on Aug 3, 2019 2:36:50 GMT -5
In thinking further about this, maybe it's okay that teams like CF and UFA are in the lower tier. Keeps them more local and reduces costs. It does not preclude them from making the playoffs. All either has to do is handle business in the division and both can make it into playoffs and hopefully do well enough to have US Soccer change the seedings the next year. One sad caveat to all of this, is that we might see a situation whereby by this time next year the U15s, U17s, U19s may never play their cohorts competitively any longer, thereby removing the local regular season rivalries unless they all make it out of their respective divisions and get paired up against each other...
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Post by rifle on Aug 3, 2019 7:23:58 GMT -5
The justification is to have competitive games. I predict the games will be just as unbalanced.
The best way to have competitive games is to open the pyramid and make every division merit based. The strongest will rise to the top and the rest will compete where they belong.
Sure you’d still have player movement to the strongest team that a player can get onto but you’d actually see coaches and players doing the work have a chance, instead of just “declaring” clubs into the top bracket. If a non MLS team can compete with the top division, they should absolutely compete with them.
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Post by krazykickers on Aug 3, 2019 8:12:26 GMT -5
NCFC gets in the top tier but Crossfire doesn’t? NCFC is not affiliated with an MLS club and had marginal U18/19 results and the 17s had a horrible record.
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Post by atv on Aug 3, 2019 9:19:01 GMT -5
The justification is to have competitive games. I predict the games will be just as unbalanced. The best way to have competitive games is to open the pyramid and make every division merit based. The strongest will rise to the top and the rest will compete where they belong. Sure you’d still have player movement to the strongest team that a player can get onto but you’d actually see coaches and players doing the work have a chance, instead of just “declaring” clubs into the top bracket. If a non MLS team can compete with the top division, they should absolutely compete with them. .... the creation of more soccer tiers by marginalizing even more players and clubs. It is frankly sickening and painful to watch. Non-merit based decisions that affect so many being made in isolation by a few. Is this really the mission of the US Soccer Federation, to promote a closed, geographically restricting, franchise based model (MLS) above all else. US Soccer crossed the line when they created a league in direct competition with its members. This opened the door for the creation of mandates and policies that are corrupt and self serving andwithout proper vetting and alignment of its stakeholders. USSF’s mission statement is “...to make soccer, in all its forms, a preeminent sport in the United States and to continue the development of soccer at all recreational and competitive levels.”
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