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Post by soccernotfootball on Dec 9, 2019 13:23:58 GMT -5
So a team playing an age group up were looking to get an easy tournament win? That's an interesting take.
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Post by slickdaddy96 on Dec 9, 2019 13:50:18 GMT -5
So a team playing an age group up were looking to get an easy tournament win? That's an interesting take. Come one now. Quit trolling. You know what the OP means. I have seen it happen as well. Where a DA, ECNL, or NPL team from a age group down gets put in one of the lower divisions of a tournament an age group up and wins all their game comfortably if not in blow out fashion when in reality they shouldn't be just looked at as playing an age group up but also how good of a team that younger age team is. I would say most DA, ECNL, NPL type teams that are at least middle of the road in their DA, ECNL, NPL leagues should be able to beat most Classic I / Athena A type teams even if the team they are playing is an age above them. So they definitely should not be playing in any bracket that doesn't have Classic I or Athena A teams or higher in that bracket. It does neither team any good to play in lower brackets that will easily be blowouts.
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Post by soccernotfootball on Dec 9, 2019 14:06:37 GMT -5
DA teams don't play in these tourneys. And if that's what the OP meant, let the OP tell us which team it was.
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Post by SoccerMom on Dec 9, 2019 14:31:30 GMT -5
DA teams don't play in these tourneys. And if that's what the OP meant, let the OP tell us which team it was. Actually NASA and CF have put DA teams in their tournaments. Being that the OP is talking about GSA, could he mean an ECNL team?
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Post by slickdaddy96 on Dec 9, 2019 14:50:40 GMT -5
DA teams don't play in these tourneys. And if that's what the OP meant, let the OP tell us which team it was. I have seen DA teams in these tournaments all the time. That comment alone tells me you don't pay attention to this type of stuff.
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Post by blu on Dec 9, 2019 15:23:16 GMT -5
ECNL teams I saw playing up (boys) were in the top bracket of the division above them
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Post by soccernotfootball on Dec 9, 2019 15:47:14 GMT -5
DA teams don't play in these tourneys. And if that's what the OP meant, let the OP tell us which team it was. I have seen DA teams in these tournaments all the time. That comment alone tells me you don't pay attention to this type of stuff. "All the time"... yeah, ok. It happens occasionally and it depends on competition that is entered since they need US Soccer approval - so they are not sandbagging for easy tournament wins. Since you obviously do pay attention - cite one instance of a DA team that played in a lower bracket for an easy tournament win. I'll wait...
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Post by atlfutboldad on Dec 9, 2019 15:49:07 GMT -5
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Post by blu on Dec 9, 2019 16:32:20 GMT -5
Two different '08 sccl teams played up against some '07 sccl and sccl-p teams. I don't really have a problem with them in the 2nd of 4 brackets.
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Post by oraclesfriend on Dec 9, 2019 17:43:16 GMT -5
I think it really depends on the age and number of brackets. Plus it isn't always the team's choice. Sometimes there are not the correct number of teams in the bracket and age group that the team requested or prefers. Some of this is on the tournament personnel who make the divisions.
Last year my kid played in a tournament up age groups. Our age group was not strong enough. The age groups above us were combined to include teams 1 and 2 age groups above us. We were a pre-high school team and many of the players we went against were much larger and more physical. We won all of our games but they weren't blowouts until the final game. It was the right level for us.
This year I am aware of a Tophat academy age team that played up an age group and played in the second division. I think that is ok. Like it or not the better teams are also often bigger and faster and at the young ages we can be dealing with 6 or more inches in height difference with one age group and some early/late bloomers. The kids' safety also needs to be considered.
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Post by crazzzy4soccer on Dec 9, 2019 20:00:56 GMT -5
oraclesfriend- Curiosity which TH team academy you are referring to? The main Academy team playing up consistently is the 08 team and they have played in the top 07 bracket...
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Post by oraclesfriend on Dec 9, 2019 20:54:20 GMT -5
oraclesfriend- Curiosity which TH team academy you are referring to? The main Academy team playing up consistently is the 08 team and they have played in the top 07 bracket... Tophat 10 gold played up to U11 in UFA Fall Classic in second bracket. They did very well, but did not blow out their competition. It was a good placement especially as it was the first tournament playing 9v9. They are not always playing up, but did in that tournament.
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toni4
Jr. Academy
Posts: 19
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Post by toni4 on Dec 9, 2019 22:00:34 GMT -5
The majority of the teams that do play up seem to play in the higher level brackets. There was a couple examples of that in the u11 and u12 boys brackets. I think if you’re going to play up it’s to test yourself and shouldn’t be about the first place trophy.
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Post by oraclesfriend on Dec 9, 2019 22:13:26 GMT -5
The majority of the teams that do play up seem to play in the higher level brackets. There was a couple examples of that in the u11 and u12 boys brackets. I think if you’re going to play up it’s to test yourself and shouldn’t be about the first place trophy. Agreed, but some tournaments just have don't have a good fit for a team. Their own age is too easy or doesn't do the 9v9 or 11v11 as they want. The top bracket age up would be a slaughter against them which doesn't help their players, but the other bracket(s) are too low level. Sometimes you just don't know until you play them too. The most appropriate thing is to play up one age and down one level. That usually is the best fit in a tournament setting if there is otherwise not a great fit. Sometimes it is the tournament's fault for where they place a team. As a parent I have been on both sides of tournament games where we have lost 13-0 and won by 13 or even more goals. It is not a good experience on either side, but sometimes the tournament people are at fault or there just weren't enough teams to make a good division that would be right for a team.
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Post by greenmonkey on Dec 10, 2019 8:29:47 GMT -5
I would love to know which tournaments are letting teams pick their own brackets and divisions to play in.
When you register sure you can click the level of competition you request
But absolutely a tournament director or scheduler is aware of the requests.
No one is requesting lower level brackets to chase free hardware.
Why do we always assume the worst?
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Post by soccernotfootball on Dec 10, 2019 8:35:48 GMT -5
I would love to know which tournaments are letting teams pick their own brackets and divisions to play in. When you register sure you can click the level of competition you request But absolutely a tournament director or scheduler is aware of the requests. No one is requesting lower level brackets to chase free hardware. Why do we always assume the worst? I have seen coaches or directors sandbag for hardware - but I would think it's extremely rare. And I don't think anyone plays up an age group for easy wins.
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Post by Keeper on Dec 10, 2019 14:45:56 GMT -5
I would love to know which tournaments are letting teams pick their own brackets and divisions to play in. When you register sure you can click the level of competition you request But absolutely a tournament director or scheduler is aware of the requests. No one is requesting lower level brackets to chase free hardware. Why do we always assume the worst? UFA Norcross did that this past weekend. And when our coach complained about it the response was “our tournament, our rules”.
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Post by atlfutboldad on Dec 10, 2019 15:16:40 GMT -5
By "did that" do you mean they placed their own teams in a lower bracket?
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Post by oraclesfriend on Dec 10, 2019 16:52:06 GMT -5
I would love to know which tournaments are letting teams pick their own brackets and divisions to play in. When you register sure you can click the level of competition you request But absolutely a tournament director or scheduler is aware of the requests. No one is requesting lower level brackets to chase free hardware. Why do we always assume the worst? It is the job of the director to work to place teams. The coaches do select the level of competition, but there are multiple issues that can occur that mess things up. There may not be as many divisions as levels that were offered as options at registration. The sincsports rankings are used to determine seeding but the rankings are only as good as the info put in. Some teams put in scores from friendlies at academy ages and some don't. At the older ages some put in their league games and some don't. The less info added, the more likely they are to be off rankings wise. Also there is the issue of tournament teams having guest players or play ups which can completely change the quality of a team. Coaches CAN override the placement by requesting a different division though it is up to the tournament to decide if they want to change it. I absolutely agree that VERY FEW people intentionally sandbag. It does happen, but I think that is the exception. This past weekend the team one of my kids plays on completely DESTROYED their competition. We had asked for a "more competitive" division. One would think that if there were multiple divisions in our age group (there were) that we would have been placed in the middle or higher division. We weren't. Our ranking should have put us in a higher division too and it didn't. We would have been the lowest team in the higher division. The tournament chose to put us in a lower division. No idea why. It was not a competitive weekend. We did everything to minimize the score differential, but still it was a slaughter. This was not our fault. It was the tournament 's fault. I imagine this same thing could have happened to the team toni4 is referring to.
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Post by soccermom667 on Dec 10, 2019 20:11:10 GMT -5
My son is on the 06 ECNL team at GSA and they played up in the top bracket. If they had played in the 06 top bracket they would easily have won all games but struggled in the top bracket with 05's. The size differential is sometimes too big to overcome at that age. However, I would much rather them play up and struggle and try to figure out how to compete with kids so much bigger than win every game easily in a lower bracket.
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Post by blu on Dec 10, 2019 21:01:06 GMT -5
All the ECNL teams played up I think and even some SCCL. Size difference year to year is huge at the early teen years.
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Post by Keeper on Dec 10, 2019 21:52:29 GMT -5
By "did that" do you mean they placed their own teams in a lower bracket? Yes. They refused to move a Norcross team up from a lower division. That Norcross team ended up blowing out three teams with a 23-2 combined score too. UFA was playing politics by spreading out their teams. Makes sense and every large club would do it to protect their teams and players.
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