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Post by paterfamilias on Mar 21, 2015 22:08:17 GMT -5
As many of you know; most of the individual clubs are registered as non-profit corporations. The price for being a non-profit is that you have to share your tax return publicly. It is called a federal form 990. It is available by asking for it directly from the club. Additionally you can find it here: All you have to do is register with guidestar and you can search its database for tax returns of non profit corporations. There is all kinds of interesting financial information available on the 990 tax return. Total cash on hand, total revenue, total expenses, number of contractors, number of employees, highly compensated individuals etc. So.... Which club plays the most games? Who has the highest revenue? Who has the highest compensated contractors; employees? Stay tuned. What financial games are being played? Here is a little teaser: Top 5 highest revenue clubs in Georgia (that I have come across) UFA (pre-merger) $2,846,459 SSA $2,838,627 NASA $2,406,847 Concorde $2,286,799 AFU $1,655,328 Youth soccer is a business. |
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Post by rifle on Mar 22, 2015 9:11:45 GMT -5
I'm personally quite conflicted about feeding the madness with my own money, so this will be very interesting.. to see the good old boys club exposed. (Though I also know a great deal of money changes hands "off the books" as training fees).
On the bright side, there are some clubs doing it without profit as the priority. Upstarts like Georgia Storm FC, for example, make me proud to display a "GA Soccer" license plate. But for the most part, pay to play soccer hurts my heart.
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Post by Keeper on Mar 22, 2015 9:42:13 GMT -5
I'm personally quite conflicted about feeding the madness with my own money, so this will be very interesting.. to see the good old boys club exposed. (Though I also know a great deal of money changes hands "off the books" as training fees). On the bright side, there are some clubs doing it without profit as the priority. Upstarts like Georgia Storm FC, for example, make me proud to display a "GA Soccer" license plate. But for the most part, pay to play soccer hurts my heart. Not familiar with Ga Storm. My niece just played their yesterday against a well coached team that just were missing 1-2 top athletes. I know they're new, but are they all volunteer like Fayette FC? |
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Post by soccergator on Mar 23, 2015 8:19:13 GMT -5
Another good example is Queen City Mutiny in Charlotte. I think the u11 team we played earlier in the fall was a u10 team with most the kids on scholarship or with minimal fees. Worth the look up for folks. Right now I think its only a few boys teams and expect them to grow (u9-u12). They also have taken the lead creating "friendlies" of invited teams. Interesting, they didn't invite us...... I'm hoping that was because they invited u10 teams only, but not sure to be honest. www.queencitymutiny.com/Under the sponsors tab on their webpage: QCM utilizes sponsors and donations to keep costs to families affordable. Additionally, there are ample opportunities for full and partial scholarships based on need. We greatly appreciate our sponsors and donors that make this amazing opportunity possible for all players. This includes kits, boots, training expense, field use, travel to tournaments and all classroom material. This allows QCM to select the top footballers in the area, regardless of their socioeconomic status. QCM ONLY pays its coaches. That means the entire Board of Directors, Committee Members and other leadership is on a complete VOLUNTEER BASIS. Football is for the kids – thanks so much to our generous sponsors and donors for keeping it pure! |
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Post by soccerdad44 on Mar 23, 2015 8:38:35 GMT -5
Youth soccer is a business. IMO we should all take more of a Clark Howard approach to how/where we are spending our money. I'm not against someone making a fair living, but when soccer club directors and youth soccer coaches make more than teachers, firemen, policemen, nurses; there is something wrong with our priorities. It's sad to think how far this has gotten away from a generation ago when sports were organized and played around schools and community organizations, coached by teachers making a few hundred dollars extra per season and/or volunteers. Now we have big clubs with directors making 6 figure salaries. But us parents are feeding it :-( |
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Post by rifle on Mar 23, 2015 20:47:26 GMT -5
Hey soccergator.. queen city mutiny sounds like it is doing it right!
And crosskeep311.. I don't know much about storm, except they started last fall and are growing fast. Winning lots of games at lower levels, moving on up, earning their way, and their fees are a third of what I pay in the metro Atlanta area. Great website
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Post by Soccerhouse on Mar 23, 2015 21:51:23 GMT -5
How the heck are Georgia storms fees so low?
Coaches not getting paid?
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Post by allthingsoccer on Mar 24, 2015 7:57:00 GMT -5
Great post paterfamilias... I have always wondered how much these clubs are making.
We all knew soccer is a business. But just how big of a business.
soccergator.... I'm very familiar with Queen City. I had a chance to speak with a few parents. It's an experiment right now with the U10 team. Great concept I think for for the younger age groups. When they get older it will be real hard to retain do to DA. (in less they come up with one). I love the idea.
Our clubs can come up with ways to offset costs. If they are making this type of revenue they should provide a program to help offset them. An example.... I spoke to a great couple at Vulcan and they ran a club booth (tshirts) and they get credit towards fee's. I not talking about just giving it away. Make a way for those who want to earn it. Also, fundraisers. If the PTA can raise so much money for the school so can a club.
Anyways, now that we know. Do you feel the clubs are spending it wisely? I mean on your child's development? Is the MLS Academy going to be any different?
Cheers,
J4K
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Post by Deleted on Mar 24, 2015 8:40:17 GMT -5
Expenses are close to revenue. 90% of the revenue is from registration fees and camps. Don't forget these big clubs are huge, and get 1200 to 1500 a kid! At a club that actually takes care of its coaches though, ~800 of this should be going directly to coaches fees.
Clubs even get kickbacks from adidas/nike for uniforms and then when merchandise is printed on their logo branded apparel.
Bottom line - it comes down to how much are your DOCs getting paid. Most would be pretty surprised at the salaries at the large clubs. To say the least, I'm in the wrong business.......
In my opinion uniform kits are way to expensive at most clubs.
Clubs should have 1 color for socks/shorts and then only change tops to limit costs.
Most coaches are actually grossly underpaid given their time commitments not only during the week but also on weekends. (travel to and from fields etc, finishing an academy game, then rushing across town to athena/classic/rpl game).
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Post by rifle on Mar 24, 2015 8:52:13 GMT -5
How the heck are Georgia storms fees so low? Coaches not getting paid? No clue. But they do make a point to state that all the administration stuff is done by volunteers. That will have to change as they grow but you have to commend what they've done in one season. I suspect coaches are not making much. |
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Post by rifle on Mar 24, 2015 9:01:53 GMT -5
In my opinion uniform kits are way to expensive at most clubs. Clubs should have 1 color for socks/shorts and then only change tops to limit costs. Amen. Stuff like matching bags, all the custom training gear, is a waste. All for show. ...Obviously land has a tangible cost, rented or owned, and its much higher in the metro areas. Then staff. Some staff are necesssary to get things done, others less clear in their "value". The other forum goes off about salaries all the time and that's not my angle. You can choose where to play, so you shouldn't complain since the costs are *mostly known ahead of time. (*Financial bait and switch in the name of financial aid notwithstanding, but that's another topic for a separate thread). Someday a club will materialize with a goal of teaching soccer players, sowing a love for the game, at a cost that is reasonable. It will be refreshing. |
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Post by soccergator on Mar 24, 2015 9:36:10 GMT -5
Agree with rifle Again the advantage of town like atlanta. many highly paid staff members bring unmeasurable value to a club, but thats like he said another discussion completley. Will be interesting to see if georgia storm can thrive and be competitive at higher levels of play. Seems you would need big time sponsorship or donors to thrive. Norcross used to collect coaching fees monthly (until this year), which gave us extremely low registration fees ($350 without 1 week camp - I think). We still then paid monthly coaching fees directly to coaches $75 a month for 2 nights a week, $95 a month for 3 nights a week. At the end of the day this really wasn't sustainable for various reasons and coaching fees are now included in registration costs. |
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Post by soccerteamdad on Mar 24, 2015 14:56:12 GMT -5
$75 a month x 11 kids (our 8v8 Academy roster) = $825 a month. 8 practices + ~3 games = 20 hours a month. $825/20 = $41+ per hour. Not bad! That doesn't even factor in rain outs. If our coach got $825 in February, he made about $300 an hour.
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Post by allthingsoccer on Mar 25, 2015 7:00:13 GMT -5
I don't think that is a full calendar year like a regular corporate. I would say at most paid 9-10 months unless you are a higher level coach.
I have a sheet on what another club (not in GA) uses as a guide on what to pay coaches. This was given to the club by US Soccer. It’s real crazy. It factors in so many things... If you (coach) played at a high level, International, how many years coaching, certification level, age group you are coaching. You get paid more for coaching older age groups, also if you are coaching the top team.
It already predetermines how many hours for practices, tournaments etc..
Below is just an example. Not saying all clubs follow but they all have similar guides.
U11-U12 Teams (10-14 Roster size)
LICENSE PAY Per Hour Playing Exp. PAY Per Hour Coaching Exp. (years) PAY Per Hour
NONE $7 NONE $0 NONE $0
USSF E (or equivalent) $9 Recreational $1 1-2 $1
USSF D 11 High School $3 3-5 $2
USSF C $13 College $5 6-8 $4
USSF B $15 Professional $10 9-10 $7
USSF A $20 International $15 11+ $10
DETERMINING GROSS WAGE
LEVEL of Play Winter Sessions (hrs.) Games (hrs.) Tournaments (hrs.) Practices (hrs.) session/game planning
TOTAL (hrs.)
U9-U10 Gold 10 12 12 30 20-40 84-104
U9-U10 Maroon 15 12 12 30 25-45 94-114
U11 C2 15 16 18 40 25-45 114-138
U11 C3 10 16 12 30 20-40 88-108
U12-U18 C1 20 24 24 45 40-60 153-173
U12-U18 C2 15 24 24 40 35-55 138-158
U12-U18 C3 10 24 18 30 30-50 112-138
U14-U18 Premier 30 30 32 60 40-60 192-212
NOTE: Number of hours is an approximation and to be used as a guideline.
Example: Our coach who earns $18 per hour is now coaching a U12 C1 team will earn a gross pay off ($18 x 153-173 hours) $2,754-$3,114
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Post by soccerdad44 on Mar 25, 2015 11:47:00 GMT -5
Bottom line - it comes down to how much are your DOCs getting paid. Most would be pretty surprised at the salaries at the large clubs. To say the least, I'm in the wrong business....... Paying multiple directors well above 6-figure salaries seems out of line for a "nonprofit" organization teaching kids soccer. I know that most of them coach too, but it seems they are earning far above what they pay their own coaches. It would be nice to see that money spent on other things like paying/keeping good coaches, maintaining the fields, investing in indoor facilities, or hiring someone to manage/train referees. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 26, 2015 10:36:43 GMT -5
The UFA - South Ga United merger falls perfectly into this discussion. I get this from a South Ga United perspective slightly, but given the distance from Atlanta, not sure how much you actually gain...
But what does the current UFA gain from this?
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