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Post by Soccerhouse on Sept 21, 2015 7:26:36 GMT -5
lot of boys out there for the younger ages. Always a tough process, still think they should be identifying kids more during the year vs at a tryout also. You can really see how important it is to make it the first year for the age group, because it obviously gets much harder year after year.
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Post by allthingsoccer on Sept 21, 2015 8:57:37 GMT -5
Agree. Lots of good talent in the 04's as the 03's. Both look very strong.
Very important to make it first year. Its seems like its twice as hard if you didnt make it first year. T hey already know the players and if you are new you better be a peacock so everyone can see you.
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Post by RedDevil10 on Sept 21, 2015 12:02:24 GMT -5
A lot of talent in the 02' group as well
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Post by SoccerMom on Sept 21, 2015 20:40:27 GMT -5
Some of younger kids are identified a year before tryouts and invited to pre odp
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Post by newposter on Sept 22, 2015 6:14:05 GMT -5
99s and 01s apparently made no cuts. O2 selections well just wow. Some selections were players who don't get 15 minutes a game on club teams. Makes me wonder?
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Post by rifle on Sept 22, 2015 6:48:56 GMT -5
99s and 01s apparently made no cuts. O2 selections well just wow. Some selections were players who don't get 15 minutes a game on club teams. Makes me wonder? Things must be changing. They used to favor boisterous and selfish (mistaken for confidence). No selection process will be judged as fair by everyone, because it is subjective. JD, as I understand it, is looking for a type of player that is confident on the ball, tactically smart and selfless. They apparently see things in the kids selected. If you are disappointed, use it as a learning moment and (hopefully) light a fire to come back again and make it.
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Post by RedDevil10 on Sept 22, 2015 12:34:08 GMT -5
99s and 01s apparently made no cuts. O2 selections well just wow. Some selections were players who don't get 15 minutes a game on club teams. Makes me wonder? Things must be changing. They used to favor boisterous and selfish (mistaken for confidence). No selection process will be judged as fair by everyone, because it is subjective. JD, as I understand it, is looking for a type of player that is confident on the ball, tactically smart and selfless. They apparently see things in the kids selected. If you are disappointed, use it as a learning moment and (hopefully) light a fire to come back again and make it. AGREE 1,000% all the kids can do is tryout they don't control the selection process. So many NFL players go undrafted but get a chance with a team and become stars
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Post by soccerfan30 on Sept 22, 2015 13:50:02 GMT -5
This is a difficult time of year for parents and players alike that are involved in the ODP tryout process. Since someone mentioned the 02 Boys group I will add a few comments from my perspective as I've been involved with this group for two (now going on three) years.
1. It's a one day (sometimes two day) process and it's difficult to assess that many players, if your kid doesn't show well for whatever reason they have an option for a second look if there is a potential oversight. Look at professional teams (someone mentioned football), they have seven figure recruiting budget, hours of game film, broadcasted games, character assessment, psychological profiles, scouts who spend hundreds of hours tracking these players, even they aren't always perfect. I'm sure we can name dozens of first round draft picks in the last decade that were total busts.
2. Claims of politics-I've been involved in a coaching capacity with ODP for the last seven years. No one has ever told or influenced me to select a player, as the saying goes "the eyes don't lie", my assessment is purely based on what I see. Credibility is important for most coaches, they are not going to push a player forward if they don't think they are ready. If I pushed one of my club players onto a college coach and I painted an inaccurate picture of that player that college coach will not value my opinion in the future, I simply wouldn't do that. Honestly since I coach club girls where the ODP boys play club is irrelevant to me and doesn't factor into my decision process.
3. The "the player isn't even a starter on his club team" argument. We are asked to look for particular skill sets, put a premium on technical ability and playing the posession style that GA Soccer/US Soccer is trying to promote. What if a club coach doesn't value a player because maybe he's not a physical specimen or doesn't value technical ability. We've all seen the teams that play speedsters up front that can latch onto long balls, they have a poor first touch, average technical skill but they are successful due to physical gifts. Maybe there are politics that unfairly impact the bench player as to why he doesn't start, you don't know all the dynamics at play. That is the decision/opinion of the club coach, as I have pointed out above sometimes decision makers make mistakes. At ODP tryouts there are five to ten sets of eyes per group. If the majority of the coaches agree on a particular player I'm going to side with the idea that they hopefully got it right.
4. Selection process- we've established that no selection process is 100% accurate but if you can get close to 90% or above that's a good track record. For coaches it's easy to identify the top players in a group, conversely it doesn't take long to identify the bottom third of the group, say you have 30 players in the middle third vying for 20 spots or so, it's much more difficult as all may not have similar attributes: good first touch, ability to play one/two touch, vision, speed of thought, speed of play, technical skill, etc. Most of those players will be good in one or two of those areas but not all, so I ask again how do you determine 30 middle third players for 20 spots? It's not as easy as people think it is, parents have their own emotional investments/bias as well. Now factor in returning players, you have a known commodity vs an unknown one, the new players will have to be better to supplant a returning player.
Feel free to chime in accordingly
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Post by RedDevil10 on Sept 22, 2015 15:16:58 GMT -5
This is a difficult time of year for parents and players alike that are involved in the ODP tryout process. Since someone mentioned the 02 Boys group I will add a few comments from my perspective as I've been involved with this group for two (now going on three) years. 1. It's a one day (sometimes two day) process and it's difficult to assess that many players, if your kid doesn't show well for whatever reason they have an option for a second look if there is a potential oversight. Look at professional teams (someone mentioned football), they have seven figure recruiting budget, hours of game film, broadcasted games, character assessment, psychological profiles, scouts who spend hundreds of hours tracking these players, even they aren't always perfect. I'm sure we can name dozens of first round draft picks in the last decade that were total busts. 2. Claims of politics-I've been involved in a coaching capacity with ODP for the last seven years. No one has ever told or influenced me to select a player, as the saying goes "the eyes don't lie", my assessment is purely based on what I see. Credibility is important for most coaches, they are not going to push a player forward if they don't think they are ready. If I pushed one of my club players onto a college coach and I painted an inaccurate picture of that player that college coach will not value my opinion in the future, I simply wouldn't do that. Honestly since I coach club girls where the ODP boys play club is irrelevant to me and doesn't factor into my decision process. 3. The "the player isn't even a starter on his club team" argument. We are asked to look for particular skill sets, put a premium on technical ability and playing the posession style that GA Soccer/US Soccer is trying to promote. What if a club coach doesn't value a player because maybe he's not a physical specimen or doesn't value technical ability. We've all seen the teams that play speedsters up front that can latch onto long balls, they have a poor first touch, average technical skill but they are successful due to physical gifts. Maybe there are politics that unfairly impact the bench player as to why he doesn't start, you don't know all the dynamics at play. That is the decision/opinion of the club coach, as I have pointed out above sometimes decision makers make mistakes. At ODP tryouts there are five to ten sets of eyes per group. If the majority of the coaches agree on a particular player I'm going to side with the idea that they hopefully got it right. 4. Selection process- we've established that no selection process is 100% accurate but if you can get close to 90% or above that's a good track record. For coaches it's easy to identify the top players in a group, conversely it doesn't take long to identify the bottom third of the group, say you have 30 players in the middle third vying for 20 spots or so, it's much more difficult as all may not have similar attributes: good first touch, ability to play one/two touch, vision, speed of thought, speed of play, technical skill, etc. Most of those players will be good in one or two of those areas but not all, so I ask again how do you determine 30 middle third players for 20 spots? It's not as easy as people think it is, parents have their own emotional investments/bias as well. Now factor in returning players, you have a known commodity vs an unknown one, the new players will have to be better to supplant a returning player. Feel free to chime in accordingly You covered EVERYTHING !
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Post by spectator on Sept 22, 2015 16:01:58 GMT -5
soccerfan30 NAILED IT! One thing to add - the player's attitude can make or break the tryout. Last year I saw a girl who is an amazing player on her club team not make ODP. It was 110% her cocky attitude and selfish play. She was openly bad mouthing other players and yelling at them on the field. She may well be the next Alex Morgan but obviously the coaches saw the attitude and lack of teamwork on the field and didn't think it was a good fit. She came back this year and once again was not part of the final selected players. Her mom ranted all over Facebook that it was political and rigged - hmmmm - perhaps the apple isn't falling far from the entitlement tree in that household? ??
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Post by newposter on Sept 23, 2015 16:18:25 GMT -5
One has to question the ODP programs continued decline in numbers. If a program is successful the numbers should be huge. Several age groups struggled to have enough for a team. Told 99s cut none and all 01s made it. Something is causing your program decline in numbers? Customers dissatisfied?
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Post by soccerfan30 on Sept 23, 2015 17:18:44 GMT -5
One has to question the ODP programs continued decline in numbers. If a program is successful the numbers should be huge. Several age groups struggled to have enough for a team. Told 99s cut none and all 01s made it. Something is causing your program decline in numbers? Customers dissatisfied? I wouldn't say a big decline, the older groups are impacted by DA and ECNL, so most of the top players are taken out of the mix as due to participation in DA and ECNL. Add in players that participate in NL/R3PL and travel every weekend it's hard to add another commitment to the table. Our group has had a 95% return rate the last two years so it seems everyone is happy with the way it's going.
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Post by newposter on Sept 23, 2015 17:39:29 GMT -5
99s no cuts and 01s only a few. That says volumes.
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Post by soccerfan30 on Sept 23, 2015 17:46:17 GMT -5
You are implying customer dissatisfaction and it may have nothing to do with that at all. There has always been attrition as the players get older, as they transition from two teams to one at the older age groups. High school players also have more demands in their time or maybe have secured a college offer and don't feel like they need ODP anymore.
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Post by newposter on Sept 23, 2015 17:51:37 GMT -5
We can agree to disagree.
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Post by soccerfan30 on Sept 23, 2015 17:59:53 GMT -5
I'm not agreeing to anything. Prior to the 02's I was with the 97 Boys for four years, most of the boys returned every year unless they made DA teams, can't do DA and ODP.
Clearly you have an agenda or an axe to grind, come right out and say why you think people are dissatisfied.
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Post by stevieg on Sept 23, 2015 18:17:43 GMT -5
My daughter was on the 02's for the past two years. This year she didn't make it. We emailed the coach and received a response as to why she didn't make it. While the feedback about her play was somewhat out of date (could have been accurate 18 months ago, but not now), she took it like a champ and got over the disappointment pretty quickly. She enjoyed her time with ODP, but I won't miss those drives to Canton. I am not one of those who will beg and plead for a second look. They've had two years with her so they know her by now. The only criticism I have of the program is that they need to swap the coaches around more. I don't like that this age group has had some of the same coaches for three years now.
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Post by spectator on Sept 23, 2015 19:49:48 GMT -5
The 99's are mostly high school juniors by now and either have lost interest in soccer (meaning they probably don't want to play in college) or have already secured college spots and don't 'need' ODP any more. For the 00's - two girls are already on the National team - not like they need ODP for their soccer resume either.
Can't speak for the 02's - although that is the age (U14) where you'll see some changes more than at the younger or older age groups. Seems U14-U15 are the critical years for ODP roster changes.
And of course DA, ECNL and RPL have opened doors that previously would have only been opened by ODP participation. I don't think ODP has outlived it's purpose but it has changed - it's really not the ID factor for national teams as much as it once was.
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Post by sweeper on Sept 23, 2015 22:08:52 GMT -5
I do not understand this criticism that ODP seems to get. It is another oppurtunity for players to get exposed to differnet coaches and players for comparitavely low cost. My son was not selected this year and he will miss it. I spoke with a dad at a recent tournament and he was all about his son going to NTC and DA while putting down ODP. People don't understand that ODP provides an important oppurtunity for players. Limiting development to the few early elite players that regularily get invited to NTC and DA is short sighted. I have been around this game long enough to know that the 12/13 year old super stars are not guaranteed to be the top players at 17/18, conversely there is a big pool after the elite players that will produce top players in the future.
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Post by Soccerhouse on Sept 24, 2015 7:27:25 GMT -5
I'd be interested to see how the national training centers correlate with ODP. Is there any linkage at all, regional pool players etc and kids invited to larger regional based national training centers?
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Post by touchlinedad on Sept 24, 2015 10:39:10 GMT -5
As a parent who children have attended three tryouts so far with no success, I appreciate soccerfan30's comments about the process. It is frustrating when all you hear from coaches and other parents is about how good your child is and you think they have a shot at ODP but no such luck. What I would like to see different about the process, especially at the younger ages, is for those players who came close to making the cut to receive specific feedback about what they could improve. I have no idea whether my children came close since I never played the game and just don't know what to look for when observing, and I bet there are other parents who feel the same. It would great for those players to get some feedback about what aspect of their game needs improving in order to compete.
My club's DOC also told me that politics are not involved in the process and the coaches often have no idea what age group they'll be evaluating until they arrive. I hope that's the case but I did note that the age group my son tried out for, half the players chosen play either for Concorde or UFA. Of course, those clubs consistently turn out good players, so it may just be a matter of very good players gravitating toward those clubs.
Finally, I was told by my older son's high school coach that my son didn't make much of an impression at tryouts for his high school team and the coach thought he was OK, probably wouldn't get that much playing time during the season. The coach was very surprised at how well my son did at practice and he turned out to be one of the players that started every game and was rarely substituted. So I wonder if the one-time tryout tends to work against boys who might have a case of nerves and thus played tentatively. They were also told by coaches to play very simply, to always take the easy pass instead of some complicated move and I wonder if that works against them as well.
In the end, I hope whatever talent they have will take them as far as they want to go. I just wish as a parent, I could give more feedback on how to improve their game.
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Post by stevieg on Sept 24, 2015 13:22:52 GMT -5
I'd be interested to see how the national training centers correlate with ODP. Is there any linkage at all, regional pool players etc and kids invited to larger regional based national training centers? Well, I can only speak for my daughter's experience, but the same coach who basically got her cut from ODP is the coach at NTC for her age group so she will be frozen out from both. Again, it's that coach's opinion and they are entitled to it, but it would be helpful if it wasn't the same coaches every year or at both places for the same age group.
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Post by alacrity174 on Sept 24, 2015 14:17:05 GMT -5
I'm not agreeing to anything. Prior to the 02's I was with the 97 Boys for four years, most of the boys returned every year unless they made DA teams, can't do DA and ODP. Clearly you have an agenda or an axe to grind, come right out and say why you think people are dissatisfied. Personally I am not a huge fan of ODP. Both my sons tried out multiple times and both were passed over in favor of other players. OK fair enough however when one son was told by the coach he hadn't been selected because he didn't pass the ball enough, he expects 15 passes before crossing the halfway line my jaw dropped. Since when in any sport has the object of the game been to spend as much time in your own half of the field as possible. We all understand and want teams to play possession and for players to be confident on the ball but would a football coach say to his team we are going to run every play and never pass the ball because we may lose it? My son had two of his team mates make ODP and both are now on Cl IV teams and have never progressed, whilst he has been offered 2 options to play and is on an SRPL team and has been for a few years now. I could go on but to be honest the whole ODP cycle appears if not broken then at least tainted. If it works for some players great however I don't see it as the potential goldmine for soccer development.
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Post by th1976 on Sept 24, 2015 17:46:33 GMT -5
Looks like the G02s took a lot fewer too.
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Post by SoccerMom on Sept 24, 2015 23:05:59 GMT -5
I'd be interested to see how the national training centers correlate with ODP. Is there any linkage at all, regional pool players etc and kids invited to larger regional based national training centers? Yea, ODP recommends kids to NTC, I know of a bunch including my own. Girls 02's cut around 10 girls from last year's team
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Post by th1976 on Sept 25, 2015 11:56:11 GMT -5
I'd be interested to see how the national training centers correlate with ODP. Is there any linkage at all, regional pool players etc and kids invited to larger regional based national training centers? Yea, ODP recommends kids to NTC, I know of a bunch including my own. Girls 02's cut around 10 girls from last year's team Or their club DOC/coach recommends them. There is some kind of link because a couple of the girls in NTC/regional pool were also invited to ID2 camp in NJ. April Hendricks was at the pre ECNL tournament in May to watch kids who'd been in the pool last year and a couple of players benefited from that. I don't think the NTC coaches are the same as ODP...I wouldn't give up on getting an invite. There are about 10 more from last year invited to the next practice. Some were hurt. I heard a rumor that one of the clubs asked their players not to participate.
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Post by SoccerMom on Sept 25, 2015 13:24:53 GMT -5
Yea, ODP recommends kids to NTC, I know of a bunch including my own. Girls 02's cut around 10 girls from last year's team Or their club DOC/coach recommends them. There is some kind of link because a couple of the girls in NTC/regional pool were also invited to ID2 camp in NJ. April Hendricks was at the pre ECNL tournament in May to watch kids who'd been in the pool last year and a couple of players benefited from that. I don't think the NTC coaches are the same as ODP...I wouldn't give up on getting an invite. There are about 10 more from last year invited to the next practice. Some were hurt. I heard a rumor that one of the clubs asked their players not to participate. agree about NTC and Id2 camp in Jersey about ODP girls coming to first practice those are kids that the coaches have called about getting them a second look, hurt kids and kids that were just too busy to go. The list that was posted online out had no kids listed as being asked to come back. I haven't heard that rumor at all, I was there and saw kids from every big club being represented
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