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Post by setpieces on Oct 15, 2015 12:00:08 GMT -5
I posted this on the other forum, but I wanted your opinion...
So my son made the 5th grade basketball team for our local high school feeder program. They practice twice a week and have games on Saturdays and Sundays. The season starts in two weeks and last night the coach told us that he needs to be at every practice if he wants any significant playing time.
I explained that we are playing soccer also and my son is on the top team that requires training 3 days per week. Unfortunately, two practice days will overlap between basketball and soccer. The basketball coach has told us that we have to choose a sport now.
I know it's a different time, but when I was growing up we didn't have to choose "a sport". We played each sport when it was in season. Is it just me or are youth sports becoming more of a business than pleasure for the kids? Perhaps this is why the USMNT can't seem to get on the same level as the rest of the world... too many kids being forced to choose a single sport to play at a very young age.
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Post by jash on Oct 15, 2015 12:03:27 GMT -5
Youth sports are now almost entirely money-driven and parent-driven. And this "my sport or nothing" attitude reflects the enormous power that clubs and coaches have over parents. It's very sad.
However, I don't think this is the problem with the USMNT. If anything, specialization *should* produce higher quality (at the expense of reduced enjoyment and higher injury risk).
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Post by SoccerMom on Oct 15, 2015 13:03:26 GMT -5
Making his elementary school basketball team doesnt seem to me like a business thing. You dont have to choose but do you honestly think its fair if your kid only showed up to one practice a week and then got to play more than any kid on the team that was there at every practice and every game? If your son is playing academy which seems he does since you say he is training 3x a week, you did agree to go to all his trainings and games there already when you signed up, so will your son not go to his basketball games when he has a conflict with soccer?
He doesnt have to choose a sport, but you do need to choose your level of commitment. Your son can play rec where the commitment is not as big and then he can do both.
I think you're looking at this as how its not fair to your kid, but you need to look at it if its fair for the rest of the kids that do attend every practice. How much play time is fair for someone who is only there 1/2 of the practices? 1/2 the time as the other kids??
My son's team is a pool that divides into two teams every weekend, if you dont go to practice one day, you dont get to play on the top team that weekend, doesnt matter if you are the best kid in the whole pool. In my daughter's team if you can't make a practice, you have to make it up, if you dont then you don't start at the next game
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Post by Soccerhouse on Oct 15, 2015 13:12:25 GMT -5
Making his elementary school basketball team doesnt seem to me like a business thing. You dont have to choose but do you honestly think its fair if your kid only showed up to one practice a week and then got to play more than any kid on the team that was there at every practice and every game? If your son is playing academy which seems he does since you say he is training 3x a week, you did agree to go to all his trainings and games there already when you signed up, so will your son not go to his basketball games when he has a conflict with soccer? He doesnt have to choose a sport, but you do need to choose your level of commitment. Your son can play rec where the commitment is not as big and then he can do both. I think you're looking at this as how its not fair to your kid, but you need to look at it if its fair for the rest of the kids that do attend every practice. How much play time is fair for someone who is only there 1/2 of the practices? 1/2 the time as the other kids?? My son's team is a pool that divides into two teams every weekend, if you dont go to practice one day, you dont get to play on the top team that weekend, doesnt matter if you are the best kid in the whole pool. In my daughter's team if you can't make a practice, you have to make it up, if you dont then you don't start at the next game " wow, I have no idea what age your are talking about, but safe to say I'm stunned at that a coach would make that decision to have kids not play with the top team based on missing a session. we have kids playing other sports and our coach is completely cool with it. there are many other legitimate reasons for kids to miss a session occasionally and shouldn't be penalized for that. I'm really speaking at the the < u11/u12 age group.
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Post by SoccerMom on Oct 15, 2015 13:19:21 GMT -5
Making his elementary school basketball team doesnt seem to me like a business thing. You dont have to choose but do you honestly think its fair if your kid only showed up to one practice a week and then got to play more than any kid on the team that was there at every practice and every game? If your son is playing academy which seems he does since you say he is training 3x a week, you did agree to go to all his trainings and games there already when you signed up, so will your son not go to his basketball games when he has a conflict with soccer? He doesnt have to choose a sport, but you do need to choose your level of commitment. Your son can play rec where the commitment is not as big and then he can do both. I think you're looking at this as how its not fair to your kid, but you need to look at it if its fair for the rest of the kids that do attend every practice. How much play time is fair for someone who is only there 1/2 of the practices? 1/2 the time as the other kids?? My son's team is a pool that divides into two teams every weekend, if you dont go to practice one day, you dont get to play on the top team that weekend, doesnt matter if you are the best kid in the whole pool. In my daughter's team if you can't make a practice, you have to make it up, if you dont then you don't start at the next game " wow, I have no idea what age your are talking about, but safe to say I'm stunned at that a coach would make that decision to have kids not play with the top team based on missing a session. we have kids playing other sports and our coach is completely cool with it. there are many other legitimate reasons for kids to miss a session occasionally and shouldn't be penalized for that. I'm really speaking at the the < u11/u12 age group. there is an exception to every rule of course...kids do get sick and he doesnt penalize them for that. (I do have a friend whose kid plays football...he's 10 and the coach doesnt care if it because of sickness). We had one kid that would only show up for 1 practice a week, parents said they lived too far and were not going to come again the other day when they had to come other days as well for their other kids practices
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Post by stevieg on Oct 15, 2015 13:35:50 GMT -5
I'm not that surprised by the coach's comments, but you don't really have to choose at such a young age. Like SoccerMom said, have your son play rec basketball. Then he won't be penalized for missing practice and will get equal playing time. If you want to play at a higher level in sports that overlap, this is going to happen. My daughter has often played with girls who also play basketball, volleyball, etc. and they have to prioritize one over the other.
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Post by TheMadOx on Oct 15, 2015 14:22:46 GMT -5
There are two levels of sports for kids now....the recreational fun level and the specialized dedicated version. If you want to play multiple sports, I would think you would have to do it on a recreational level...at least for 1 of the sports. Kids are becoming specialized in sports and when you sign up for these travel teams, regardless of sport, you will have to commit to multiple nights of training...
So sadly, I would have to agree....if you child is wanting to play travel sports on these specialized, select type teams...he will have to commit to either/or...Nature of the beast I guess.
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Post by rodak on Oct 15, 2015 14:29:56 GMT -5
I believe it is awesome to encourage multiple sports as long as you can. Each sport accentuates different physical and mental abilities, develops other muscle groups and mental processes, etc. But unfortunately focusing on one sport can be a prerequisite depending on a kid's abilities and the competitive level they want to pursue. Two and three sport starters in high school were common in the eighties. But today if your kid is a very good, but not an exceptional athlete, it is really difficult to make a competitive high school soccer or b-ball team (i.e. Milton, Woodward, North Gwinnett) unless a kid is a year round player.
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Post by jash on Oct 15, 2015 14:30:27 GMT -5
What's missing is that the cross-training is very good for these kids. Two practices a week for one sport and two for another is a lot of practice, but it's plenty -- especially for a 5th grader -- for each sport.
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Post by SoccerMom on Oct 15, 2015 14:45:32 GMT -5
Agree about cross training, my kids do other sports too...but not on the same competitive level as soccer, just for fun
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Post by rifle on Oct 15, 2015 17:45:28 GMT -5
Absolutely not. But middle school "feeder" teams for the HS are basically club basketball. Go play rec basketball and tell the coach he will miss some practices and therefore likely get to play less. It should be expected. If he is good, the HS coach isn't going to turn him away.
The self-importance of pay to play sports nauseate me, tbh - and that's coming from a long time patron of club soccer. My younger one, thankfully is more than happy to play rec soccer and I couldn't be happier.
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Post by Soccerhouse on Oct 15, 2015 17:51:53 GMT -5
Better yet coach him in hoops than u can pick the practice night and time!
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Post by newposter on Oct 15, 2015 18:54:26 GMT -5
Specialization too early leads to injury and burnout early. All you have to do is look at the high school soccer players with knee braces and high school pitchers who've had Tommy John. That is a last 15 to 20 year phenomenon brought on by kids only playing one sport. I encourage parents to research this; its not hard to find the studies. Play and play different sports.
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Post by soccerdadinga on Oct 15, 2015 21:15:43 GMT -5
This issue comes up a lot with Basketball and Soccer, so you are not the only parent facing this choice, particularly goalkeepers. To answer your question directly, the elementary school coach should be fine with missed practices, in theory. At this age, your best athletes play other sports. Soccer and School Basketball don't really overlap in Georgia that much. The school season begins late November, when club soccer is in tournament time and doesn't start back up until early February when basketball for school is winding down. The problem is that because the kids are already at school, very few kids who don't play other sports will miss a lot of practice. But coaches want to win and will accomodate athletes, particularly the starting 5.
However, the real conundrum is what happens if your kid wants to play Club Soccer and AAU Basketball -- which is the real feeder for serious middle school programs. It's not so much that AAU feeds into them, but just like soccer, the constant play against much, much better competition makes it much easier to play for a middle school. And most middle schools, unlike lots of soccer programs, have extremely competitive basketball teams to make, i.e., lots more kids tryout for basketball than do soccer.
Having lived that it is very difficult. That said, for my kid, many of the kids played other sports along with basketball, and this is at the AAU level. The issue wasn't so much the coaches wanting you to pick a sport, but the conflicting practices and game times in the Spring. AAU games are typically Friday nights, twice Saturday and then once on Sunday. The problem is that if you miss a game for a tournament -- and AAU typically is all tournaments -- then you are letting your team down for a game that they may need to qualify. But kids miss basketball games all the time, so you can go from having 11 to barely having 5 in the same day. It's not the same parental pressure as soccer. But your kid is not going to want to miss practices or games, and that can be tough.
As for the idea that you must specialize, that is ridiculous and dangerous. More play equals more injuries and more injuries of a particular type. And increases burnout in middle and high school when there are so many other things for kids to do. (And they drop out in droves before high school.) And just like organized soccer, the skills kids need to standout as best honed at home. The best thing a kid who wants to play both can do, to make sure they play in high school, is get lots of touches with the soccer ball and practice dribbling and shooting at game speed.
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Post by setpieces on Oct 16, 2015 10:34:02 GMT -5
Making his elementary school basketball team doesnt seem to me like a business thing. You dont have to choose but do you honestly think its fair if your kid only showed up to one practice a week and then got to play more than any kid on the team that was there at every practice and every game? If your son is playing academy which seems he does since you say he is training 3x a week, you did agree to go to all his trainings and games there already when you signed up, so will your son not go to his basketball games when he has a conflict with soccer? He doesnt have to choose a sport, but you do need to choose your level of commitment. Your son can play rec where the commitment is not as big and then he can do both. I think you're looking at this as how its not fair to your kid, but you need to look at it if its fair for the rest of the kids that do attend every practice. How much play time is fair for someone who is only there 1/2 of the practices? 1/2 the time as the other kids?? My son's team is a pool that divides into two teams every weekend, if you dont go to practice one day, you dont get to play on the top team that weekend, doesnt matter if you are the best kid in the whole pool. In my daughter's team if you can't make a practice, you have to make it up, if you dont then you don't start at the next game
It's not just elementary school basketball. There were 36 kids that tried out and only 11 made the team so it's highly competitive. It's the feeder team for the high school and they use the local AAU coaches. This isn't just rec ball and the fees are pretty high for 3 months of basketball. They have a DOC that evaluates these coaches so it's definitely a business thing. Also, I wasn't asking about a question of fairness with playing time if they miss a practice. We completely understand if our playing time is reduced if we can't attend all the practices. I was really addressing the you-have-to-pick-a-sport mentality of these coaches at such a young age. Unless more time is needed to focus on school or family, I don't see a reason why kids can't play more than one sport at a high level particularly if they have the ability.
Fortunately, I spoke to his soccer coach and he shares my philosophy of playing multiple sports at a young age. He agrees that it will help with his development with soccer, allow the opportunity to work other muscle groups, and maintain his love for sports with some variety. I'm really happy that he understood what we were trying to do and how it can only help him be a better soccer player. Fortunately, there won't be much overlap with basketball and soccer this season. However, he'll have some hard choices to make in the next couple of years when he switches to AAU basketball along with select soccer.
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Post by soccerdadinga on Oct 16, 2015 11:17:04 GMT -5
Directly to your question about should have have to pick his sport, the question really is one of athletic ability. If your kid, or any for that matter, are superior athletes in terms of size, strength and/or coordination, then your child, or any kid, may not ever have to pick a sport. Coaches want great athletes and they will make all sorts of accommodations. And for basketball that athlete generally speaking looks extremely tall, like 5'8" by middle school tall. If your kid is that kind of super athlete, then he can miss every AAU practice -- AAU teams are not as caught up in the cult of fairness that is soccer, they are trying to win -- and still play in every game. (AAU has a lot more dad-coaches and fewer professional coaches. That can create problems that generally do not happen in Club Soccer. It also is much less organized and on the fly.)
But say your kid is just a very good athlete and would benefit from specialization, the fear folks have is that their kids will not be able to make the competitive school or AAU teams if they do not play basketball. (I haven't seen too many kids give up soccer after playing since U5 for Basketball, but I have seen it the other way around.)
Then you'll run into problems of getting your kid to the practices and games. AAU Basketball tournaments are typically in Cobb, North Fulton or Gwinnett and a Friday night game during traffic is brutal. We would hustle to games right after one sport and head to another. That will burn out parents, even if players are fine. And so the problem then becomes how to manage the perception that you have to play elite level games for basketball to remain competitive and balance that with soccer.
In my experience that decision is one that doesn't have to be made by playing AAU and Club Soccer. In middle school, tons of kids you have never seen before tryout for the middle school team. And elementary schools typically feed into one middle school. And middle school games, unlike Club or School soccer, are so popular that they charge a gate to get in, have cheerleaders, all sorts of school officials, and are packed with a sound system. They can be exciting environments. And kids will want to do that.
Lots of kids will. And so even as competitive as Elementary School B-Ball is Middle School is that much more competitive. Plus, kids growth spurts will turn a short kid into a tall one by the end of middle school in ways that cannot be predicted.
My experience having done all of that is that it really only matters at the margin. If your kid is an outstanding athlete in both arenas, the coaches for both sports will fit your needs and your child does not need to balance both. If your kid is just very good, then he/she will have to sacrifice one or the other and then play on their own to make up the difference. But the biggest decider of whether a kid has to choose is not how many games they go to, its genetics. If you played college level soccer and basketball and your significant other did it, then less to worry. If not, then it's hard to keep up, particularly on the basketball side because there are so many new kids that will tryout who start to do so in middle school.
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Post by allthingsoccer on Oct 16, 2015 14:00:07 GMT -5
Its so hard these days. Lots of options for kids today. (in the US) You all make great points.
If your son plays on a top soccer team and you already have committed to the team/coach (by signing the agreement) then you should stick with that commitment. If it was already agreed up front that he was going to play another sport (basketball) and would like to take one of those 3 days and train 1 day with the basketball team then you are good to go.
Communication is key. Maybe the coach turned down a player because your son would make the required commitment of training 3 days a week.
Its going to be real hard to train at two top levels and that's a lot of pressure for a young boy. (even young adult, adult).
Maybe change it up. This year top level soccer and rec basketball. Next year top level basketball, lower team soccer.
I don't know. Its hard to say.
My son was asked to play on the football team and cross country and he told the coaches, I'm sorry I'm committed to soccer. He plays rec flag football, he runs on weekends, goes the the driving range etc...
Everyone is different... You just have to figure out a good balance.
Good luck
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